areyouthere...Will begin taper this Spring?

[areyouthere]

After a run of up and down but mostly down days I'm feeling pretty normal today: NO aches and pains, NOT exhausted & feel like going back to bed to sleep, slept all night ( no night sweat) , still some weird dreams but just weird… not intense and scary.

 

This has been a more difficult & frustrating drop with a longer stretch of feeling like crap but now I know that this too shall pass. Hopefully sooner than later.

 

One of the things that I have learned through all of this is not to overdo it when I feel so much better after a more difficult taper because it just prolongs the getting better. So, for example, because I feel so good, I've made soup, baked chicken, and made a raspberry bread.

 

I have laundry that has been neglected as well because I haven't felt well. BUT instead of tackling that I believe I will lay down this afternoon, catch up on Downton Abbey on Amazon Prime and likely drop off for an afternoon nap.

 

Live and learn. RU with my progress for now.

[bubble]

sounds great and something to learn from!

 

[areyouthere]

Today was another good day. A few aches in the afternoon, nothing terrible but consistent with WD as it was in my upper spine & neck. Funny how I can tell the difference now between muscle tightness from tension & this more of an "aching" pain from WD. 

 

I can also now identify the difference between a tension headache and the headaches I get when I'm tapering the xanax. 

 

I got pretty antsy today which is a good sign.. feeling ambitious. This darn frigid weather should break tomorrow..irregardless I am going to town to do some errands and grocery shopping. That will help lift my mood although it hasn't been as bad as in previous drops. With this taper it was more of the aches that got to me & there is a small part that wonders about this extreme high pressure weather system & if that has played a part in the intensity of the body aches. Just for shits and giggles I'll watch the barometer the next time I taper.

 

Bubbles… for me it's a fine line between taking it easy and beginning to get out of shape and listless which just compounds everything bad… like feeling tired, sorry for myself, and lazy ( not "fatigued" .. there's a difference) & so for example , since I think I am over the hump, I will have a busier day tomorrow and day after tomorrow with the weather is lifting, will kick my own butt outside and get on my snowshoes to lift my spirits, get some sunshine and try to maintain muscle , stamina etc….

 

I think I have experienced the worst of the WD from THIS taper. That is good news. The frustrating news is that I still cannot taper by 10% which prolongs things. But it is what it is I guess.

 

Hopefully I will reach my goal of getting from 20 mg of lexapro to 10 mg of lexapro by earlier summer. Then a break , I think, then tackle the xanax…. which remains an unknown. I want to get the xanax down from 2.5 mg to zero. 

 

I have enjoyed using tablets again… so am thinking my target will be to taper from 2.5 mg to 1.25 mg xanax using liquid. Then I can chill on tablets again ( .25 mg 5 times per day) and tackle the rest. I think I'm looking at a 2 year process with the xanax. Whatev.

 

RU

[areyouthere]

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5541-phases-of-ssri-withdrawal/#entry72969

[Rhiannon]

RU, I think you'll find that as you get to lower doses, it will be easier to be patient. Try not to think too much right now about how long it's going to take, just focus on doing the best you can right now. You're doing great.

[bubble]

Oh RU,

 

I feel pretty much the same as you when it comes to telling the difference between laziness and listlessness, allowing myself to go slow, listening to my body and giving in to its fatigue and giving it a push up the hill despite its initial severe reluctance....

 

I'm still not feeling as well as you. A 2-week extreme listlessness and total lack of energy has dissipated only to be replaced by increased anxiety and lower quality of sleep. But it was a very, very important period for me of learning how to cope or better to say, endure my symptoms without drugs (no reducing, no increasing, just sticking to the same dosage and the same pattern). It was a near miracle to see the smyptoms come and go irrespective of the drugs! Priceless and breakthrough experience in my battle with psychotropic medication.

 

But I can't help yearning to go down, at least a symbolic 5 % decrease on Xanax. (Just felt awful ordering a fresh supply from my GP who is getting increasingly uncomfortable that I've been on such a high dose for so long). But this is not an issue with me. It doesn't feel pleasant but since I know it's the right thing to do, I have no problem dealing with it. 

 

Since we are on the same 'happy mix' of Xanax and Lexapro I'm carefully watching your moves

 

I caused myself awful damage that was actually a bliss in disguise bringing me to this forum when I went off Lexapro and Xanax at the same time! In retrospect, I marvel at how I managed to survive and 3 months is really not enough to recover from something like that...

 

I can only say: God give us patience but do it quickly

 

bubble

[areyouthere]

 It was a near miracle to see the smyptoms come and go irrespective of the drugs! Priceless and breakthrough experience in my battle with psychotropic medication.

 

 

bubble

 

I understand this completely!! It IS a wonder how 1) these drugs can have such an effect and 2) the medical community either doesn't have a clue or is afraid to admit it.

 

The saying "experience is the best teacher" fits here I think. 

 

My symptoms still linger a bit.. aches are gone ( so far) but I woke up the last two early mornings with a sweat and crazy dreams only to fall asleep until almost 9 am!! 

 

Previously this would have made me feel "guilty" but I have learned to let my body do as it will.

 

I believe , if I had been more productive , had more strenuous duties etc… I would likely have slept through those early wakenings in a more normal way.

 

So today marks the first that I will get out and about, and just OUT. I believe it is a matter of days and I shall urge my body back to its "normal" rhythm. 

 

I forgot to mention… we are bringing a 4 month old puppy home on Sunday after having lost our boy last summer.

 

I'm a little worried about all of that but the timing is good I think. I will be in a good hold here soon for 5 weeks or so to get the household and "pup" into a routine.

 

RU I will post a pict.!!

[bubble]

looking forward to seeing it

[areyouthere]

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/82-the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-recovery/

[Altostrata]

....But it was a very, very important period for me of learning how to cope or better to say, endure my symptoms without drugs (no reducing, no increasing, just sticking to the same dosage and the same pattern). It was a near miracle to see the smyptoms come and go irrespective of the drugs! Priceless and breakthrough experience in my battle with psychotropic medication.....

 

Please help us convey this message to others on this site! This confuses many people.

[areyouthere]

Yesterday, my symptom set seemed to reach a kind of climax, by mid-morning I felt so incredibly bad that...... well, there really aren't any words, so I'm not even going to try.  By 3:30 in the afternoon, when my Mum came over, the intensity of it had lifted slightly, but I was exhausted on every level, to the point where there wasn't even any energy to 'try' anything.  My will, if you like was completely broken, I was given up, beyond anything I was in control of.

 

But then something unexpected happened, in that act of giving up, completely and not caring any more, I found myself doing what for me, these days is a very complex task, and talking at the same time.  I made proper machine coffee for my mum, the way she has it, and then me, the way I have it (decaff) without any mistakes, while keeping up a conversation.  I didn't realize I had managed to do that until later in the night.  If I had died, right then, in that moment, I wouldn't have cared, it would have been a relief, but I still managed to make 2 very good cups of coffee??

 

So, that was yesterday, and today has been a much better day by comparison.  The intense body pressure and agitation from yesterday seems to have reduced.  I just got back from the store, which was fairly easy too, bought some probiotics, thought it was time I gave that a try, seeing as I've been reading so much about them here.

 

One more thing I want to write about today is that I've finally found some 'quality' confirmation that something I've suspected for a long time is most likely true.  When there is in increase in solar activity, my symptoms seem to be worse.  I've been tracking it for a while now, after finding one web site with some information here.

 

But this morning I stumbled onto more information via a video here Solar Flares & Physiological Changes

 

I was on a mission, following links, watching more videos from the channel. You see, 2 days ago, the sun developed one of the biggest sun spots in a long time and there has been very high flare activity, its big news among the space weather watching community, so for me it made sense that I would feel worse, which I did, but now, I've found confirmation via a group of people with various sensitivities who also track this and have a lot of evidence based on sound research.

 

There are studies which show increased geomagnetic activity effects human health, so, for me, this is another piece of the puzzle.  There is still nothing we can do about it, but maybe, what might seem like a random wave of symptoms might not be so random after all.

 

If anyone else is interested, blog is here and facebook page is here The Sun and Human Health

 

[areyouthere]

Here's the new pup. He's a great little guy. I experienced a bit of "neuro emotion" I believe or at least the magnification of some anger likely a result of the lex tapering as I haven't felt that way in quite some time. Luckily it all happened in my head and I didn't yell at anyone. Here's the deal:

 

So my daughter and husband were in Mexico for a vaca to celebrate his Mom's 60th Bday. We took her cat while they were gone.

 

He was very easy to take of and a nice "kutz" or "cat" in German. 

 

The intersection of getting this new dog and taking care of the cat happened by coincidence but wasn't a problem. I postponed picking up the pup and daughter arranged to pick up the cat a day earlier/later. BUT>>>>

 

What I DIDN'T know is that the fine, Mexico celebrating couple planned on staying with us for TWO nights thereafter thus KIND OF complicating things.

 

Actually the animals have been handling it quite well. We  humans not so. Luckily I had frozen homade soup & a few other goodies  , my husband picked up a few things on the way to WORK etc etc.

 

Don't get the wrong idea, they ( the celebrating couple) have contributed their share in the past in terms of bringing food, chopping in etc. Oh yeah. They did all of their laundry while here. Using the wrong dryer setting so the buzzer went off a million times.

 

Well.. I'll stop complaining but the clincher was when they asked to use my snow shoes to take to my OTHER daughter's house to snowshoe. Didn't ask me to accompany them ( Likely wouldn't have anyway..needed the space) but I kind of lost it.

 

See…. all of my girls can wear my shoes but their feet haven't spread to the weight of carrying three babies around so they are narrower feet than mine. If they wear my shoes when they visit ( which is fine by me.. wouldn't expect them to bring every type footwear when they ravel here) and I go to put them on after they have worn them I always have to adjust the laces. They pull them tightly to wear on their narrow , virgin, childless digits. It gets tiresome. When I put my shoes on ..I want to just GO!

 

It gets even MORE complicated with snow shoes. If you wear a slightly different slight boot in them, then you have to adjust about 3 straps on each s. shoe for 6 total straps which then have to be re adjusted, in the cold, in the snow, when I want to use them.

 

So I kind of blew up at them after their request. I simply said… she either needs to put those straps back to EXACTLY where they are now OR she has to WEAR MY BOOTS!! daughter/ SIL ask, "well… does she wear the same size BOOT as yours?" I'm beginning to boil inside. Shits NO she doesn't wear the same size boot I think… but say "NO!! She DOESN"T wear the same size boot and when I go to use my snow shoes and I have to readjust them IT PISSES ME OFF!!"… Anger. Starting. To . Boil. over.

 

they ask, "Well do your boots FIT her?" I mean CRIPE!!! How difficult a concept IS this to visualize anyway??!!!! Anger boiling.

 

I say ( while thinking about the three pound meatloaf I put together for supper and the apple bread I just baked etc etc) , "NO THEY DON"T FIT!! THAT's THE POINT!! THAT'S IT!! IF SHE WANTS USE MY SNOWSHOES BRING HER MY BOOTS AND TELL HER SHE HAS TO WEAR THESE!!!!?

 

Well…. they had supper at her house and my boots came back so that I had to readjust the laces ( she had to pull them real tight. I hope her calves ached.) but I finally had time alone with my new dog who has been a trooper.

 

The neuro emotions didn't end there. I fumed. 

 

There is a bit of good news. It spurred me on to call the insurance exchange and I got our insurance straightened out. That was a part of the anger… this Obamacare has been a nightmare & I knew I had to straighten it out & planned to by the 15th but they kind of GOT IN MY WAY.

 

I'm still a bit peeved. 

 

As far as the taper itself, the physical symptoms have been gone for nearly a week. So 4 more weeks and I'll make another cut. 

 

Part of getting off of the drugs is learning how to express my feelings better. I know that I need to learn how to democratically get across my boundaries in situations like this. Now that I know I have insurance coverage, I am going to reschedule an appt. with my psychologist to do just that. 

 

Whew. I really just want to take those boots and kick their asses out the door…. like right now. They WILL be gone by noon ( after they've had a nice meatloaf sandwich I'm sure)  or soon after.

 

RU and SPIKE… the dog. Little lover. Doing good on potty training. LOVES to be outside & so he and I will go snowshoeing...

 

Happy fricking WEDNESDAY ( they came Mon. morn. grrrrrr) 

 

RU    ps… not sure how to upload a pict. from my desktop. Any advice would be appreciated. 

[Altostrata]

To upload a photo or file from your computer,

• Click the More Reply Options button in the lower right of the Reply window.
• At the bottom of the window, click the Browse button.
• Find the item on your computer. Click the Open button under the file window.
• Click the Attach This File button under the Browse button. A light blue bar under the Reply window verifies the file is attached.
• If you want an attached image to appear in your post, click Add to Post in the light blue bar.

[areyouthere]

Here's the new pup. He's a great little guy. I experienced a bit of "neuro emotion" I believe or at least the magnification of some anger likely a result of the lex tapering as I haven't felt that way in quite some time. Luckily it all happened in my head and I didn't yell at anyone. Here's the deal:

 

So my daughter and husband were in Mexico for a vaca to celebrate his Mom's 60th Bday. We took her cat while they were gone.

 

He was very easy to take of and a nice "kutz" or "cat" in German. 

 

The intersection of getting this new dog and taking care of the cat happened by coincidence but wasn't a problem. I postponed picking up the pup and daughter arranged to pick up the cat a day earlier/later. BUT>>>>

 

What I DIDN'T know is that the fine, Mexico celebrating couple planned on staying with us for TWO nights thereafter thus KIND OF complicating things.

 

Actually the animals have been handling it quite well. We  humans not so. Luckily I had frozen homade soup & a few other goodies  , my husband picked up a few things on the way to WORK etc etc.

 

Don't get the wrong idea, they ( the celebrating couple) have contributed their share in the past in terms of bringing food, chopping in etc. Oh yeah. They did all of their laundry while here. Using the wrong dryer setting so the buzzer went off a million times.

 

Well.. I'll stop complaining but the clincher was when they asked to use my snow shoes to take to my OTHER daughter's house to snowshoe. Didn't ask me to accompany them ( Likely wouldn't have anyway..needed the space) but I kind of lost it.

 

See…. all of my girls can wear my shoes but their feet haven't spread to the weight of carrying three babies around so they are narrower feet than mine. If they wear my shoes when they visit ( which is fine by me.. wouldn't expect them to bring every type footwear when they ravel here) and I go to put them on after they have worn them I always have to adjust the laces. They pull them tightly to wear on their narrow , virgin, childless digits. It gets tiresome. When I put my shoes on ..I want to just GO!

 

It gets even MORE complicated with snow shoes. If you wear a slightly different slight boot in them, then you have to adjust about 3 straps on each s. shoe for 6 total straps which then have to be re adjusted, in the cold, in the snow, when I want to use them.

 

So I kind of blew up at them after their request. I simply said… she either needs to put those straps back to EXACTLY where they are now OR she has to WEAR MY BOOTS!! daughter/ SIL ask, "well… does she wear the same size BOOT as yours?" I'm beginning to boil inside. Shits NO she doesn't wear the same size boot I think… but say "NO!! She DOESN"T wear the same size boot and when I go to use my snow shoes and I have to readjust them IT PISSES ME OFF!!"… Anger. Starting. To . Boil. over.

 

they ask, "Well do your boots FIT her?" I mean CRIPE!!! How difficult a concept IS this to visualize anyway??!!!! Anger boiling.

 

I say ( while thinking about the three pound meatloaf I put together for supper and the apple bread I just baked etc etc) , "NO THEY DON"T FIT!! THAT's THE POINT!! THAT'S IT!! IF SHE WANTS USE MY SNOWSHOES BRING HER MY BOOTS AND TELL HER SHE HAS TO WEAR THESE!!!!?

 

Well…. they had supper at her house and my boots came back so that I had to readjust the laces ( she had to pull them real tight. I hope her calves ached.) but I finally had time alone with my new dog who has been a trooper.

 

The neuro emotions didn't end there. I fumed. 

 

There is a bit of good news. It spurred me on to call the insurance exchange and I got our insurance straightened out. That was a part of the anger… this Obamacare has been a nightmare & I knew I had to straighten it out & planned to by the 15th but they kind of GOT IN MY WAY.

 

I'm still a bit peeved. 

 

As far as the taper itself, the physical symptoms have been gone for nearly a week. So 4 more weeks and I'll make another cut. 

 

Part of getting off of the drugs is learning how to express my feelings better. I know that I need to learn how to democratically get across my boundaries in situations like this. Now that I know I have insurance coverage, I am going to reschedule an appt. with my psychologist to do just that. 

 

Whew. I really just want to take those boots and kick their asses out the door…. like right now. They WILL be gone by noon ( after they've had a nice meatloaf sandwich I'm sure)  or soon after.

 

RU and SPIKE… the dog. Little lover. Doing good on potty training. LOVES to be outside & so he and I will go snowshoeing...

 

Happy fricking WEDNESDAY ( they came Mon. morn. grrrrrr) 

 

RU    ps… not sure how to upload a pict. from my desktop. Any advice would be appreciated. 

I think this rant is worth a repeat posting. There is a high from coming in. My neck ached just a bit. SPIKE!!:

[areyouthere]

 

Here's the new pup. He's a great little guy. I experienced a bit of "neuro emotion" I believe or at least the magnification of some anger likely a result of the lex tapering as I haven't felt that way in quite some time. Luckily it all happened in my head and I didn't yell at anyone. Here's the deal:

 

So my daughter and husband were in Mexico for a vaca to celebrate his Mom's 60th Bday. We took her cat while they were gone.

 

He was very easy to take of and a nice "kutz" or "cat" in German. 

 

The intersection of getting this new dog and taking care of the cat happened by coincidence but wasn't a problem. I postponed picking up the pup and daughter arranged to pick up the cat a day earlier/later. BUT>>>>

 

What I DIDN'T know is that the fine, Mexico celebrating couple planned on staying with us for TWO nights thereafter thus KIND OF complicating things.

 

Actually the animals have been handling it quite well. We  humans not so. Luckily I had frozen homade soup & a few other goodies  , my husband picked up a few things on the way to WORK etc etc.

 

Don't get the wrong idea, they ( the celebrating couple) have contributed their share in the past in terms of bringing food, chopping in etc. Oh yeah. They did all of their laundry while here. Using the wrong dryer setting so the buzzer went off a million times.

 

Well.. I'll stop complaining but the clincher was when they asked to use my snow shoes to take to my OTHER daughter's house to snowshoe. Didn't ask me to accompany them ( Likely wouldn't have anyway..needed the space) but I kind of lost it.

 

See…. all of my girls can wear my shoes but their feet haven't spread to the weight of carrying three babies around so they are narrower feet than mine. If they wear my shoes when they visit ( which is fine by me.. wouldn't expect them to bring every type footwear when they ravel here) and I go to put them on after they have worn them I always have to adjust the laces. They pull them tightly to wear on their narrow , virgin, childless digits. It gets tiresome. When I put my shoes on ..I want to just GO!

 

It gets even MORE complicated with snow shoes. If you wear a slightly different slight boot in them, then you have to adjust about 3 straps on each s. shoe for 6 total straps which then have to be re adjusted, in the cold, in the snow, when I want to use them.

 

So I kind of blew up at them after their request. I simply said… she either needs to put those straps back to EXACTLY where they are now OR she has to WEAR MY BOOTS!! daughter/ SIL ask, "well… does she wear the same size BOOT as yours?" I'm beginning to boil inside. Shits NO she doesn't wear the same size boot I think… but say "NO!! She DOESN"T wear the same size boot and when I go to use my snow shoes and I have to readjust them IT PISSES ME OFF!!"… Anger. Starting. To . Boil. over.

 

they ask, "Well do your boots FIT her?" I mean CRIPE!!! How difficult a concept IS this to visualize anyway??!!!! Anger boiling.

 

I say ( while thinking about the three pound meatloaf I put together for supper and the apple bread I just baked etc etc) , "NO THEY DON"T FIT!! THAT's THE POINT!! THAT'S IT!! IF SHE WANTS USE MY SNOWSHOES BRING HER MY BOOTS AND TELL HER SHE HAS TO WEAR THESE!!!!?

 

Well…. they had supper at her house and my boots came back so that I had to readjust the laces ( she had to pull them real tight. I hope her calves ached.) but I finally had time alone with my new dog who has been a trooper.

 

The neuro emotions didn't end there. I fumed. 

 

There is a bit of good news. It spurred me on to call the insurance exchange and I got our insurance straightened out. That was a part of the anger… this Obamacare has been a nightmare & I knew I had to straighten it out & planned to by the 15th but they kind of GOT IN MY WAY.

 

I'm still a bit peeved. 

 

As far as the taper itself, the physical symptoms have been gone for nearly a week. So 4 more weeks and I'll make another cut. 

 

Part of getting off of the drugs is learning how to express my feelings better. I know that I need to learn how to democratically get across my boundaries in situations like this. Now that I know I have insurance coverage, I am going to reschedule an appt. with my psychologist to do just that. 

 

Whew. I really just want to take those boots and kick their asses out the door…. like right now. They WILL be gone by noon ( after they've had a nice meatloaf sandwich I'm sure)  or soon after.

 

RU and SPIKE… the dog. Little lover. Doing good on potty training. LOVES to be outside & so he and I will go snowshoeing...

 

Happy fricking WEDNESDAY ( they came Mon. morn. grrrrrr) 

 

RU    ps… not sure how to upload a pict. from my desktop. Any advice would be appreciated. 

I think this rant is worth a repeat posting. There is a high front  coming in. My neck ached just a bit. SPIKE!!:

 

Sorry about the dupes...

[Meimeiquest]

Adorable dog. This is me, only I do it with my husband...although kids can be part of the fun too. I so hope it is WD.

[lexicon]

❤️ A CUTIE ❤️

[Petunia]

All that you just went through would be enough to test anyone's patience, you did well.  Its hard to know where to draw the line with our adult kids, we spend so many years, taking care of them, putting their needs and wants ahead of our own, it just doesn't feel right to start considering our own needs again, even though we probably should.

 

Cute puppy, they are all so adorable when they are pups.  I almost gave into impulse yesterday while looking at a puppy in the store, I'm glad I didn't, it was a Great Dane/Mastiff, not very practical for my small house.

[areyouthere]

Valium for xanax FYI RU: 

Xanax is short acting. Blood levels peak in less than two hours and then begin to drop. When they drop, people often get symptoms of withdrawal (called interdose withdrawal). With Xanax and other short-acting benzos you have to dose frequently throughout the day and night to keep blood levels even and prevent this.

 

Valium is long acting, and it has metabolites (breakdown products in the body) which are active benzos themselves which are even longer acting, so one dose of Valium will continue to have a slowly tapering effect in the body for a couple/three days. This makes it easier to taper--you don't have to take multiple doses per day.

 

That's the main reason. Also, Valium comes in smaller effective doses. The smallest Xanax pill you can buy is equivalent to about 5 mg of Valium (using the Ashton equivalencies). The smallest Valium you can get is 2 mg, so you can dry cut it fairly accurately down to 0.5 mg. This is another convenience with Valium.

 

[bubble]

I can see your puppy RU ))

 

It looks so cute and good natured, not to mention playful

 

Thanks to Alto's reply to your question, I finally know how to upload something: actually we will see if I can

 

 

Found this nice cartoon (except the part which suggests our drugs are like insulin, grrrr) but the rest is nice.

 

Read that thing from Rhi but she still doesn't recomment switch to Valium... Different benzos target different receptors so we could complicate our lives even more.. Her advice it to stick to the poison we know...

 

 

 

hug,

bubble

[Rhiannon]

 

....But it was a very, very important period for me of learning how to cope or better to say, endure my symptoms without drugs (no reducing, no increasing, just sticking to the same dosage and the same pattern). It was a near miracle to see the smyptoms come and go irrespective of the drugs! Priceless and breakthrough experience in my battle with psychotropic medication.....

 

Please help us convey this message to others on this site! This confuses many people.

 

 

Oh yes! This is one of the hardest things to get across to people. Everyone wants to tweak and change their meds in response to today's or yesterday's symptoms, and all that changing just makes things worse because the symptoms are going to wax and wane and may not have anything to do with what you did yesterday, they are probably due to something that happened three months ago. It's so hard to help people see this. They keep trying to change things and end up making it take longer to stabilize.

[Rhiannon]

Aw, puppy! I wish I could have a dog, I love dogs, but I live alone and work ten and a half hour shifts.

 

I know lots of people have done the Valium switch, and if you're interested in it please get other opinions. It didn't work for me, Valium makes me too sedated.  Also, I am overall generally very conservative about advising any changes in meds--stick with the poison you're already adapted to, it's true, that's how I see it, so often changes and switching things up just aggravates the problem.

 

That's just my approach though. Please don't base important decisions on just my opinions, see what some other people think too! Valium is much more convenient to taper than Xanax.

[areyouthere]

A question. And if this has been addressed elsewhere.. please would someone put a link to the thread:

 

What are the most prominent theories for why it gets harder to taper from lower doses of these drugs?

 

Thanks. RU

[Skyler]

A question. And if this has been addressed elsewhere.. please would someone put a link to the thread:

 

What are the most prominent theories for why it gets harder to taper from lower doses of these drugs?

 

Thanks. RU

RU.. it was not harder for me (dunno if you are thinking of my post to you below), I just kept reducing by 10% a month, so the cuts were ever smaller.  The slow but steady pace held until I got to 1.25 mgs of diazepam and ran afoul of another psychotropic I did not realize needed tapering.  That aggravated tinnitus.. but as long as I went very cautiously, my symptoms were very little to none.  Once I was below 1.25, I took .025 mg cuts every two weeks until I was off.. less a hold for a mostly unrelated issue (was on antibiotics that caused an uptick of tinnitus, etc.)  At that point I did not need to keep to the 10%.

[areyouthere]

No, Skyler, that's not what I was asking..… and I may be mistaken here, but I am under the impression that for example tapering from 10 mg of lexapro to 1 mg or even to .5 mg is the "easy" part. That tapering or getting off of that last little bit , or .5 mg- 0 mg in this example, is "harder" because the brain actually struggles more at this point.

 

Perhaps I am wrong.

 

Thanks for replying & for your insight.

 

RU

[Skyler]

No, Skyler, that's not what I was asking..… and I may be mistaken here, but I am under the impression that for example tapering from 10 mg of lexapro to 1 mg or even to .5 mg is the "easy" part. That tapering or getting off of that last little bit , or .5 mg- 0 mg in this example, is "harder" because the brain actually struggles more at this point.

 

Perhaps I am wrong.

 

Thanks for replying & for your insight.

 

RU

 

Not that I'm aware of RU, and I've been active on these boards now for 4 years. The brain may be acclimating, but the bottom of the taper is just like the top as long as we are not already sensitized by a previous bad attempt or by  other meds.  Many folks do not realize the necessity of keeping up with the same pace.. and it does seem forever when cutting the small doses.  LOL, cutting by .025 mgs every two weeks was NOT fun.. but I would have had the type of experience you speak of had I gone faster.

 

You have been doing well... really well, and I'm not aware of any reason your taper should go otherwise at the lower end.

[areyouthere]

Thank you Skyler. That all makes me feel more positive & confident about the future.

 

I really needed that at this time and so I am especially appreciative.

 

Thanks again. Much respect and best regards,

 

RU

[Nikki]

A Puppy:)  pure love

[areyouthere]

 Many folks do not realize the necessity of keeping up with the same pace.. and it does seem forever when cutting the small doses.  LOL, cutting by .025 mgs every two weeks was NOT fun.. but I would have had the type of experience you speak of had I gone faster.

 

You have been doing well... really well, and I'm not aware of any reason your taper should go otherwise at the lower end.

 

Sky…. is it important to taper at the same RATE or can one go slower  ( by that I mean holding for longer periods of time) periodically and still be ok.

Thanks,

RU

[Skyler]

 

Sky…. is it important to taper at the same RATE or can one go slower  ( by that I mean holding for longer periods of time) periodically and still be ok.

Thanks,

RU

 

 

Hmmm... guess I did not put that very well... I meant no faster, slower being fine.. we should not accumulate more WD Sx every month.  See my recent post here.

[areyouthere]

Nahhhhh. You put it fine.

 

It's a personal flaw: When I'm in what I perceive as unfamiliar territory I tend to over scrutinize and the word "pace" tripped me up for a second.

 

Got it. Thanks! 

 

RU

[areyouthere]

GO SLOWER THAN YOU THINK YOU CAN…. you know, like safe sex…it's just a little inconvenience that could save a lifetime of headaches..

 

It seems to me that drug half lives are only a small part of the picture.  The problem is that our brains remodel and rewire themselves to adapt to the presence of the drug. These changes take place gradually and cannot be undone quickly. There is usually a certain amount of resilience built into our amazing nervous systems, but as Alto says they're not made of rubber.

 

We remove some of the drug and the body begins to try to remodel the nervous connections to rebalance.  It manages to get a partial balance, not robust but adequate. Then we remove more of the drug when in this state, and the body/brain continues to try to remodel; the adaptation is enough that we can function, but still not really strong because there hasn't been enough time. If we keep removing faster than our brains can adapt, our balance becomes more fragile and precarious.

 

Then we remove even more, and even more, and I think eventually we get so far ahead of our ability to heal and remodel the brain that people experience a "crash" or just go into a state of ongoing unstable withdrawal that doesn't seem to ever settle down.

 

I suspect that we can get into a state of withdrawal where the brain just can't rebalance itself because the chaos caused by the withdrawal is interfering with the chemical processes required to heal and rebalance.

 

That's the mechanism that I speculate is behind this "lag time" phenomenon, and this is why I am such a strong proponent of just holding and not changing anything when you get unstable. (And of course of slow tapers with long holds, so we don't get ahead of our brain's ability to adapt in the first place.)

 

I could be wrong of course, but it does seem to work for people most of the time.

 

[Nikki]

Rhi you aren't wrong ~ you are a genius.

 

RU that was funny:)

[areyouthere]

More on crossing over to Val.  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5647-liquid-titration-of-temazepam/#entry74694

[areyouthere]

Again…. regarding continuing the xanax taper:   

I dose my Xanax every three hours so...eight times a day I guess? I cheat though. I make up four little bottles each day and then I take about half the bottle every three hours. It's just an "eyeball" half so I'm not getting a precisely equal dose each time, but it seems to work.

 

I think quite a few people do six doses, because that's one every four hours, and I'm not sure I'd want to go much longer than four hours between.

 

Note, I still take about 1.8 mg of Valium a day, so I have that on board too, which may make the Xanax more forgiving, I don't know. When I'm in the "having withdrawal symptoms" stage of my taper I have to be pretty careful to take it right on time but when I'm holding and things settle down I have more leeway.

 

The night doses are a bit tricky. I used to wake up on time to take them; now I just let myself wake up during the night whenever I wake up, and take a dose if it's within an hour of when it's due or it's overdue. It's kind of sloppy but seems to work. During the day I try to be more on time.

 

edit to add: I am not saying this way of doing it is ideal, it's just what's worked for me so far. I suspect I may have to change things as the dose gets down to the end but that's a while yet.

 

[areyouthere]

I'm going to cut my lexapro again in 6 days. The last cut didn't go very well. I experienced moderate body aches and as I reflect depression or low mood as well.

 

It could be that the low mood was a result of my body hurting. Not sure. Maybe a combo of the two...

 

Doesn't matter. I wish I had a remedy for the body aches.

 

Any good ideas? Is this where the epsom baths can help? I haven't tried supplements. Is this where chelated magnesium helps.

 

Appreciate any input. 

 

RU