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XJessieP: hoping to get some clarity


XJessieP

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1 minute ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Thanks. I’m just in a very bad place and don’t know what to do for the best. I hope you can understand 

Approx dated

2014 Citalopram and Prozac CT

2016 adverse reaction to 7.5mg mirtazapine

2015 Klonopin 1mg taken PRN CT

2016 Sertraline 25mg up to 50mg

August 2020 cut and hold 50mg reduction to 45mg 

September 2020 36mg October 34mg November 32mg January 2021 30mg January 2021 updose 43mg GP advised trialling every other day taper so tried this which was unsuccessful  July 2021 Updose to 46mg Feb/March 2022 ish? GP advises make tiny cut to test the waters system went nuts GP advised to do further 23% to 40mg holding at 40mg since 04/08/22

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Yes we do understand but we cannot make decisions for you, but can only provide you with information.

Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions. 

  MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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  • Administrator

Withdrawal symptoms indicate destabilization. This occurred when you went from 46mg to 40mg. We have seen a slight updose, such as to 41mg, can stop withdrawal symptoms. Up to you to decide.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Thank you alto

yes it did occur when I dropped too fast. But I’m worried about kindling all this up and down and I’m scared I’m going to be admitted if it doesn’t work as I’ll become so suicidal. I’ve actually become worse holding , is this normal?

 

Edited by ChessieCat
extracted post from quote and deleted quote

Approx dated

2014 Citalopram and Prozac CT

2016 adverse reaction to 7.5mg mirtazapine

2015 Klonopin 1mg taken PRN CT

2016 Sertraline 25mg up to 50mg

August 2020 cut and hold 50mg reduction to 45mg 

September 2020 36mg October 34mg November 32mg January 2021 30mg January 2021 updose 43mg GP advised trialling every other day taper so tried this which was unsuccessful  July 2021 Updose to 46mg Feb/March 2022 ish? GP advises make tiny cut to test the waters system went nuts GP advised to do further 23% to 40mg holding at 40mg since 04/08/22

 

 

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@brassmonkey I see you giving lots of advice in these situations I am totally at a loss 

Approx dated

2014 Citalopram and Prozac CT

2016 adverse reaction to 7.5mg mirtazapine

2015 Klonopin 1mg taken PRN CT

2016 Sertraline 25mg up to 50mg

August 2020 cut and hold 50mg reduction to 45mg 

September 2020 36mg October 34mg November 32mg January 2021 30mg January 2021 updose 43mg GP advised trialling every other day taper so tried this which was unsuccessful  July 2021 Updose to 46mg Feb/March 2022 ish? GP advises make tiny cut to test the waters system went nuts GP advised to do further 23% to 40mg holding at 40mg since 04/08/22

 

 

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  • Moderator

I really don't see anything I could add. A small updose to 41mgai will probably take some of the edge off of the symptoms. A small updose shouldn't kindle and almost always helps in cases like this. Then it is going to be a matter of waiting it out until things stabilize. That means no changes at all for at least six months.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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15 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

I really don't see anything I could add. A small updose to 41mgai will probably take some of the edge off of the symptoms. A small updose shouldn't kindle and almost always helps in cases like this. Then it is going to be a matter of waiting it out until things stabilize. That means no changes at all for at least six months.


ok thank you for saying this. I get scared to updose incase it doesn’t work then I am stuck on even more very suicidal. 
 

I made so many changes and my nervous system is very destabilised and my dark mind is telling me I’ll never be able to get off now. This isn’t true is it? It’s just the changes that have done this?

Approx dated

2014 Citalopram and Prozac CT

2016 adverse reaction to 7.5mg mirtazapine

2015 Klonopin 1mg taken PRN CT

2016 Sertraline 25mg up to 50mg

August 2020 cut and hold 50mg reduction to 45mg 

September 2020 36mg October 34mg November 32mg January 2021 30mg January 2021 updose 43mg GP advised trialling every other day taper so tried this which was unsuccessful  July 2021 Updose to 46mg Feb/March 2022 ish? GP advises make tiny cut to test the waters system went nuts GP advised to do further 23% to 40mg holding at 40mg since 04/08/22

 

 

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30 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

I really don't see anything I could add. A small updose to 41mgai will probably take some of the edge off of the symptoms. A small updose shouldn't kindle and almost always helps in cases like this. Then it is going to be a matter of waiting it out until things stabilize. That means no changes at all for at least six months.


why could I cut much larger amounts before and not get hit as hard then when I cut a tiny amount this year everything went NUTS and I crashed the worst I’ve ever been? I thought that was because of kindling going up and down in doses?

or was it just more destabilisation from changes?

Approx dated

2014 Citalopram and Prozac CT

2016 adverse reaction to 7.5mg mirtazapine

2015 Klonopin 1mg taken PRN CT

2016 Sertraline 25mg up to 50mg

August 2020 cut and hold 50mg reduction to 45mg 

September 2020 36mg October 34mg November 32mg January 2021 30mg January 2021 updose 43mg GP advised trialling every other day taper so tried this which was unsuccessful  July 2021 Updose to 46mg Feb/March 2022 ish? GP advises make tiny cut to test the waters system went nuts GP advised to do further 23% to 40mg holding at 40mg since 04/08/22

 

 

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  • Moderator

Kindling is a specific case of sensitivity related to increasing doses. What you are describing is generalized destabilization from making too many/too fast changes.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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6 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

Kindling is a specific case of sensitivity related to increasing doses. What you are describing is generalized destabilization from making too many/too fast changes.


i did try to go back up and thought I got worse this year though but I’m not sure if it was just ongoing withdrawal or just nervous system adjusting again?

 

also each time I’ve gone back up it’s stabilised me less and less and I’ve got new symptoms as time has gone on. 

Approx dated

2014 Citalopram and Prozac CT

2016 adverse reaction to 7.5mg mirtazapine

2015 Klonopin 1mg taken PRN CT

2016 Sertraline 25mg up to 50mg

August 2020 cut and hold 50mg reduction to 45mg 

September 2020 36mg October 34mg November 32mg January 2021 30mg January 2021 updose 43mg GP advised trialling every other day taper so tried this which was unsuccessful  July 2021 Updose to 46mg Feb/March 2022 ish? GP advises make tiny cut to test the waters system went nuts GP advised to do further 23% to 40mg holding at 40mg since 04/08/22

 

 

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  • Administrator

If you don't want to try an increase, you'll have to hold on and cope with your withdrawal symptoms until they go away, @XJessieP

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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12 hours ago, Altostrata said:

If you don't want to try an increase, you'll have to hold on and cope with your withdrawal symptoms until they go away, @XJessieP


will this calm down? Every day feels my last 

Approx dated

2014 Citalopram and Prozac CT

2016 adverse reaction to 7.5mg mirtazapine

2015 Klonopin 1mg taken PRN CT

2016 Sertraline 25mg up to 50mg

August 2020 cut and hold 50mg reduction to 45mg 

September 2020 36mg October 34mg November 32mg January 2021 30mg January 2021 updose 43mg GP advised trialling every other day taper so tried this which was unsuccessful  July 2021 Updose to 46mg Feb/March 2022 ish? GP advises make tiny cut to test the waters system went nuts GP advised to do further 23% to 40mg holding at 40mg since 04/08/22

 

 

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  • Mentor

If you don’t want to change the dose I can offer you some encouragement on withstanding withdrawal @XJessieP. I was in a very similar position to where you are now at the end of last year and the beginning of his year. I won’t sugarcoat it, it is very difficult for a very long time. Every day I wanted to change my dose to alleviate the pain, my mind was constantly irrational and all I could focus on was survival. It takes immense courage and patience to resist the desire to change. The truth is, at first I didn’t know what my body wanted because I didn’t understand what was happening to me. So all I could do was hold. When nothing makes sense all you can do is keep everything the same.

 

It is likely that your nervous system will stabilise, given the correct treatment and care. You have to be very gentle with it after a trauma like this. I’d suggest finding somebody to offload to, it’s too much weight to bare by yourself. I personally prefer people independent of the healthcare system, as most lack knowledge on psychiatric medication.

Nothing I say or do is based on medical advice. I make my own choices based on intuition gained through individual research, and a lot of suffering. My intro
CURRENT MEDICATION:

1. Sertraline: 50mg October 2020; 100mg December 2020; 50mg April 2021; 75mg May 2021; 50mg 18 September 2021; big crash 6 December 2021; holding

Current dose: 50mg (Sep 2022)

2. Mirtazapine: 15mg November 2020;

Current dose: 15mg (Sep 2022)

 

PAST MEDICATION

1. Amitriptyline: 20mg Dec 2016 for epigastric pain; 10mg Dec 2017; 0mg Oct 2018 - no withdrawal symp.

 

SUPPLEMENTS: Magnesium Citrate;

LIFESTYLE: No alcohol, nicotine or caffeine

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11 minutes ago, Erimus said:

If you don’t want to change the dose I can offer you some encouragement on withstanding withdrawal @XJessieP. I was in a very similar position to where you are now at the end of last year and the beginning of his year. I won’t sugarcoat it, it is very difficult for a very long time. Every day I wanted to change my dose to alleviate the pain, my mind was constantly irrational and all I could focus on was survival. It takes immense courage and patience to resist the desire to change. The truth is, at first I didn’t know what my body wanted because I didn’t understand what was happening to me. So all I could do was hold. When nothing makes sense all you can do is keep everything the same.

 

It is likely that your nervous system will stabilise, given the correct treatment and care. You have to be very gentle with it after a trauma like this. I’d suggest finding somebody to offload to, it’s too much weight to bare by yourself. I personally prefer people independent of the healthcare system, as most lack knowledge on psychiatric medication.

Thank you so much for replying I am feel quite lost.

 

so you made the same mistakes as me? Lots of up and down fast cuts? How did you resolve this?

Approx dated

2014 Citalopram and Prozac CT

2016 adverse reaction to 7.5mg mirtazapine

2015 Klonopin 1mg taken PRN CT

2016 Sertraline 25mg up to 50mg

August 2020 cut and hold 50mg reduction to 45mg 

September 2020 36mg October 34mg November 32mg January 2021 30mg January 2021 updose 43mg GP advised trialling every other day taper so tried this which was unsuccessful  July 2021 Updose to 46mg Feb/March 2022 ish? GP advises make tiny cut to test the waters system went nuts GP advised to do further 23% to 40mg holding at 40mg since 04/08/22

 

 

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  • Mentor

I made a series of large cuts, both up and down, in 2021. This culminated in a massive crash in December last year which I am still recovering from. I, like you, took my GP’s advice who sanctioned many of these changes which left my nervous system reeling. After I worked out what was happening I discerned that the best thing I could do was hold until all the symptoms went away. I’m still in the process of that, but things have definitely improved since last year.

 

You probably don’t want to hear this, but there is no quick solution to this other than a long period of holding. Unfortunately, you have to live through the often tortuous waxing and waning of symptoms caused by a highly sensitive nervous system. There is no other drug that will magically fix your problems, likewise with supplements. If you go to your GP they will likely try to add/remove one or more drugs, or refer you to a psychiatrist who will so the same. Whilst we are vulnerable, it is easy for healthcare providers to determine that they know what is best for our body. GP’s are there to diagnose and prescribe, they take your symptoms and follow the procedure they have learned to treat appropriately. However, there is not a ‘one-size fits all’ approach to a complicated problem like withdrawal syndrome. 

Nothing I say or do is based on medical advice. I make my own choices based on intuition gained through individual research, and a lot of suffering. My intro
CURRENT MEDICATION:

1. Sertraline: 50mg October 2020; 100mg December 2020; 50mg April 2021; 75mg May 2021; 50mg 18 September 2021; big crash 6 December 2021; holding

Current dose: 50mg (Sep 2022)

2. Mirtazapine: 15mg November 2020;

Current dose: 15mg (Sep 2022)

 

PAST MEDICATION

1. Amitriptyline: 20mg Dec 2016 for epigastric pain; 10mg Dec 2017; 0mg Oct 2018 - no withdrawal symp.

 

SUPPLEMENTS: Magnesium Citrate;

LIFESTYLE: No alcohol, nicotine or caffeine

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23 hours ago, Erimus said:

I made a series of large cuts, both up and down, in 2021. This culminated in a massive crash in December last year which I am still recovering from. I, like you, took my GP’s advice who sanctioned many of these changes which left my nervous system reeling. After I worked out what was happening I discerned that the best thing I could do was hold until all the symptoms went away. I’m still in the process of that, but things have definitely improved since last year.

 

You probably don’t want to hear this, but there is no quick solution to this other than a long period of holding. Unfortunately, you have to live through the often tortuous waxing and waning of symptoms caused by a highly sensitive nervous system. There is no other drug that will magically fix your problems, likewise with supplements. If you go to your GP they will likely try to add/remove one or more drugs, or refer you to a psychiatrist who will so the same. Whilst we are vulnerable, it is easy for healthcare providers to determine that they know what is best for our body. GP’s are there to diagnose and prescribe, they take your symptoms and follow the procedure they have learned to treat appropriately. However, there is not a ‘one-size fits all’ approach to a complicated problem like withdrawal syndrome. 


but what if the series or large changes has made the drug go paradoxical through kindling? That way people don’t stabilise I’ve read? 

Approx dated

2014 Citalopram and Prozac CT

2016 adverse reaction to 7.5mg mirtazapine

2015 Klonopin 1mg taken PRN CT

2016 Sertraline 25mg up to 50mg

August 2020 cut and hold 50mg reduction to 45mg 

September 2020 36mg October 34mg November 32mg January 2021 30mg January 2021 updose 43mg GP advised trialling every other day taper so tried this which was unsuccessful  July 2021 Updose to 46mg Feb/March 2022 ish? GP advises make tiny cut to test the waters system went nuts GP advised to do further 23% to 40mg holding at 40mg since 04/08/22

 

 

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  • Mentor
15 hours ago, XJessieP said:


but what if the series or large changes has made the drug go paradoxical through kindling? That way people don’t stabilise I’ve read? 

 

I thought similar things for many weeks and months, questioning if I was doing the right thing in holding. Eventually your nervous system very slowly starts to work things out. It’s too early for you to make such judgements given it has only been 1.5 months without changing the dose. It can often take much longer than that, our nervous system is highly complicated and unusual in the way it repairs itself after the rapidly changing circumstances caused by these drugs.

 

Make sure you take exactly the same dose at the same time (+/- 10 minutes) each day. Give your body the stability it craves and practice patience skills.

Edited by Erimus

Nothing I say or do is based on medical advice. I make my own choices based on intuition gained through individual research, and a lot of suffering. My intro
CURRENT MEDICATION:

1. Sertraline: 50mg October 2020; 100mg December 2020; 50mg April 2021; 75mg May 2021; 50mg 18 September 2021; big crash 6 December 2021; holding

Current dose: 50mg (Sep 2022)

2. Mirtazapine: 15mg November 2020;

Current dose: 15mg (Sep 2022)

 

PAST MEDICATION

1. Amitriptyline: 20mg Dec 2016 for epigastric pain; 10mg Dec 2017; 0mg Oct 2018 - no withdrawal symp.

 

SUPPLEMENTS: Magnesium Citrate;

LIFESTYLE: No alcohol, nicotine or caffeine

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@Altostrata @ChessieCat @brassmonkey

 

how do I know if I am now getting an adverse reaction from my drug? Can all the kindling up and down cause the drug to become suddenly adverse?

 

now I am taking the drug and within an hour or two my symptoms are getting much worse. Much much worse. I’m scared it’s causing akathisia.

 

how do people get out of this situation??

 

Approx dated

2014 Citalopram and Prozac CT

2016 adverse reaction to 7.5mg mirtazapine

2015 Klonopin 1mg taken PRN CT

2016 Sertraline 25mg up to 50mg

August 2020 cut and hold 50mg reduction to 45mg 

September 2020 36mg October 34mg November 32mg January 2021 30mg January 2021 updose 43mg GP advised trialling every other day taper so tried this which was unsuccessful  July 2021 Updose to 46mg Feb/March 2022 ish? GP advises make tiny cut to test the waters system went nuts GP advised to do further 23% to 40mg holding at 40mg since 04/08/22

 

 

Link to comment
  • Administrator

Your symptom pattern appears to be withdrawal, not a reaction to the drugs you're taking.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

Your symptom pattern appears to be withdrawal, not a reaction to the drugs you're taking.


so the advice would be to hold? I tried to go up and my symptoms got even worse so can’t do that. 

Approx dated

2014 Citalopram and Prozac CT

2016 adverse reaction to 7.5mg mirtazapine

2015 Klonopin 1mg taken PRN CT

2016 Sertraline 25mg up to 50mg

August 2020 cut and hold 50mg reduction to 45mg 

September 2020 36mg October 34mg November 32mg January 2021 30mg January 2021 updose 43mg GP advised trialling every other day taper so tried this which was unsuccessful  July 2021 Updose to 46mg Feb/March 2022 ish? GP advises make tiny cut to test the waters system went nuts GP advised to do further 23% to 40mg holding at 40mg since 04/08/22

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus
On 9/19/2022 at 10:05 AM, Altostrata said:

If you don't want to try an increase, you'll have to hold on and cope with your withdrawal symptoms until they go away,

 

Alto has already responded regarding this.

Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions. 

  MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus

Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions. 

  MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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On 9/23/2022 at 11:17 PM, XJessieP said:


so the advice would be to hold? I tried to go up and my symptoms got even worse so can’t do that. 

I'm so sorry to hear that you've been destabilised this long. Please persevere Jessie. 

 

What are your bouts of akathisia like symptoms like in more detail?

May 19th - 25mg Sertraline May 27th- 50mg Sertraline
May 30th - 50mg Sertraline, 12mg Diazepam (6mg am/pm), Zopiclone 7.5mg June 10th - 25mg Sertraline, 12mg Diazepam (6mg am,pm), 15mg Zopiclone
June 15th - Stopped Sertraline, Started Venlafaxine 75mg, 12mg Diazepam (6mg am/pm), 7.5mg Zopiclone July 21st - Stopped venlafaxine cold turkey, 4mg diazepam, 7.5mg Zopiclone
July 28th - Started 7.5mg mirtazapine, 3mg valium, stopped Zopiclone August 15th - increased 15mg mirtazapine, 3mg valium
August 19th - mirtazapine 7.5mg, 3mg valium August 22nd - Mirtazapine 3.75mg, 3mg valium
August 26th - Mirtazapine 3.75mg, 8mg valium 
August 29th - Mirtazapine 3.75mg, 6mg valium

September 1st - Mirtazapine 3.75mg, 5mg valium  September 19th - Mirtazapine 3.75mg, 4mg valium

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