Kevin1: seeking advice to taper olanzapine / Zyprexa

[Kevin1]

 

Seeking advice to taper Olanzapine after two failed attempts

Dear forum

 

First of all, and after spending some hours browsing this forum, I'd like to congratulate you for the support you have given to so many of people in need. Please keep it up and God bless.

 

To my story:

 

After a breakdown following both work and marriage issues at the same time, I found myself in a psychiatry ward here in Germany beginning of June 2022. As I couldn't sleep due to trauma and compulsive thoughts, I was first put on quetiapine (dose unknown). I did sleep for a couple of hours, but after waking, my thoughts would be racing even faster compared to when I fell asleep. After discussing this with the responsible doctor, I was switched to olanzapine 10 mg. I left the ward with this dose beginning of July 2022.

 

I was suffering from muscle weakness at that point (my only symptom as far as I can remember), but as I learned more and more about the long term effects of olanzapine, I decided to start tapering, always discussing this with a psychiatrist. September 2022 I went 10>7,5>5>2,5>0 in a weekly rythm.

It all went smoothly until 2,5 mg, but 5 days after the last 2,5mg dose that I started feeling strange. Bouts of anxiety, chills, poor sleep, and finally, I stopped eating. Couldn't even force myself to eat. Eventually, I discerned that it must be withdrawal symptoms, and went back to the doctor. He confirmed, put me back at 2,5mg, and told me to hold for a month. Which I did, and I felt ok again.

 

End of October 2022 I started the second attempt. I was to do a week alternating the 2,5mg every other day, then stop. Well, 3 days after stopping the last dose I started noticing my hunger go away again, as well as my sleep. I immediately went back to the doc, that gave me the option to go back to olanzapine, or take promethazine for the sleep issues. I first agreed to the promethzine and went home.

 

However, I then decided to hold off for another two days, to see how things went, but well, things went down the drain. Acathisia, suicidal thoughts and a general sensation of doom came into the mix. I reconsidered taking the promethazine, as sleep was the least of my problems by now, reinstated the 2,5 mg olanzapine, this last week, which is where I am now.

I don't think this second attempt went without leaving a mark tough. Before, I would go to bed at 9pm and fall asleep like a rock and slept through 6am. Now, I struggle to do so before 11pm and wake some time around 5 am, struggling to find rest again until 6am. I've also noticed something like I would describe as anhedonia for the first time, which I didn't have before.

 

So, I would kindly ask for your support answering the following questions:

 

1. Have I sensitized myself already, given the new symptoms? What do you reckon?

2. How long should I at least wait until my next tappering attempt? 

3. I understand the concept of a 10% taper by now, but would a 25% taper be totally off the charts, by cutting the tablets? I'm struggling the whole time thinking about the process of crushing tablets and making suspensions

4. To support the tapers, I started myself on 440mg valerian each night two weeks ago, as well as 30 drops 3x a day of passionflower. I had some heart rhythm issues that seemed to go away with this. How should I proceed with these two in your opinion?

 

Hoping to hear from you soon.

Kevin

 

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by ChessieCat
added topic title before shortening

[Shep]

HI, @Kevin1. Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants.

 

On 11/8/2022 at 2:10 PM, Kevin1 said:

So, I would kindly ask for your support answering the following questions:

 

1. Have I sensitized myself already, given the new symptoms? What do you reckon?

 

Yes, it does sound like these previous withdrawals have rattled your nervous system. So please do as much self-care as you can until you recover and heal the damage. 

 

On 11/8/2022 at 2:10 PM, Kevin1 said:

2. How long should I at least wait until my next tappering attempt? 

 

This is a great post to help gauge when it's time to taper again:

 

Withdrawal Normal

 

On 11/8/2022 at 2:10 PM, Kevin1 said:

3. I understand the concept of a 10% taper by now, but would a 25% taper be totally off the charts, by cutting the tablets? I'm struggling the whole time thinking about the process of crushing tablets and making suspensions

 

No, I definitely wouldn't do 25% reductions. Your nervous system needs to be treated like fine crystal. You may have already seen some of these threads, but just to be sure, please have a read:

 

Tips for tapering off olanzapine (Zyprexa)

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

How about taking my medication every other day to reduce my dosage?

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Hypersensitivity and Kindling

 

On 11/8/2022 at 2:10 PM, Kevin1 said:

4. To support the tapers, I started myself on 440mg valerian each night two weeks ago, as well as 30 drops 3x a day of passionflower. I had some heart rhythm issues that seemed to go away with this. How should I proceed with these two in your opinion?

 

Quote

October 2022 - Second taper attempt. A month with 2,5mg, the one week alternating 2,5 mg, then 0 -> failed! Reinstated at 2,5 mg. Also taking valerian 440mg every night, and 30 drops of passionflower 3x a day.

 

 

Questions needed to answer your fourth question:

 

• Did you start the Valerian and passionflower before or after this latest taper attempt? 
• What time(s) of the day do you take the olanzapine and each of these supplements? Do you take any other drugs or supplements? If so, please list the names, doses, and time(s) of day taken.
• How many hours do you sleep at night? 

 

Please continue to post here in your intro thread to ask questions, receive support, and to document your taper and recovery. 

 

[Kevin1]

Shep, nice meeting you and thank you for the reply!

 

I did start the valerian and passionflower after my second failed attempt to taper, to prepare a third taper. That was the intention. But I'm definitely holding for another couple of weeks at least.

 

This is my current medication regimen:

 

Morning: 30 drops passionflower, 100mg magnesium glycinate

Afternoon: 30 drops passionflower, 100mg magnesium

Evening: 30 drops passionflower, 100mg magnesium, 440 mg valerian an hour before bedtime, 10.000 IU Vit D., 10 ml Omega 3 fish oil since 2 days ago to support brain healing

 

In terms of sleep it's hard to tell. I'm in bed for 7-8 hours, but since my last taper attempt i'm finding it difficult to fall asleep and I'm waking up a couple of times a night. It's difficult to tell how much sleep I exactly get, but I do get some sleep. I've heard of worse stories!

 

 

[Shep]

13 hours ago, Kevin1 said:

Morning: 30 drops passionflower, 100mg magnesium glycinate

Afternoon: 30 drops passionflower, 100mg magnesium

Evening: 30 drops passionflower, 100mg magnesium, 440 mg valerian an hour before bedtime, 10.000 IU Vit D., 10 ml Omega 3 fish oil since 2 days ago to support brain healing

 

In terms of sleep it's hard to tell. I'm in bed for 7-8 hours, but since my last taper attempt i'm finding it difficult to fall asleep and I'm waking up a couple of times a night. It's difficult to tell how much sleep I exactly get, but I do get some sleep. I've heard of worse stories!

 

 

Since you just started these supplements, please research them to see if you wish to stay on them. Some of these may interfere with your taper and recovery. 

 

We do recommend magnesium and fish oil,  so those are good ones to keep in your supplement toolkit. For more, see:

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

Valerian may be problematic and it definitely will need to be tapered if you stay on it for your olanzapine taper and then wish to come off it later. 

 

Valerian Root

 

Here is information on passionflower:

 

Passionflower

 

Your vitamin D dosage is extremely high. Please read at least the first post in this thread:

 

Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol or calcitriol)

 

Some things to consider:

 

From the vitamin D3 thread I just linked:

 

On 3/13/2011 at 10:33 PM, Altostrata said:

NOTE: Vitamin D is a daytime vitamin. Even if you take it in the morning, it can keep you awake at night. Be sure to start low and don't take too much.
 

 

Also, when you take a lot of or a high dose of sedating drugs and / or supplements, you may experience paradoxical reactions. So instead of being sedated, your brain and nervous system are alerted. 

 

13 hours ago, Kevin1 said:

In terms of sleep it's hard to tell. I'm in bed for 7-8 hours, but since my last taper attempt i'm finding it difficult to fall asleep and I'm waking up a couple of times a night. It's difficult to tell how much sleep I exactly get, but I do get some sleep. I've heard of worse stories!

 

 

It sounds like you may be experiencing some paradoxical effects from your drug and supplement cocktail. 

 

Please post your thoughts after you have a chance to read these links. Do you think you may be getting an alerting reaction from what you're taking?