Et101: It’s been 4 months Venlafaxine (300mg) withdrawal/cross taper

[Et101]

Hello Everyone. Thanks for taking the time to read this. 
I’m a male in my mid 30’s. I suffer with panic disorder/ agoraphobia. 
I’ve been on 300mg xr for around 6 years, 5 years at 225mg before that. So around 12 years in total. 
I was doing well and had a pretty normal life, no panic attacks. I was happy. 

I started to noticed my heart rate was high, sweating a lot, feeling wired, not sleeping well. Almost like too much caffeine,  
I woke up one morning in February 2022 and my anxiety was back with the vengeance, panic attacks, terror, shaking, unable to leave home etc

 

In May, my psychiatrist said to taper off the Venlafaxine 300mg I was on, over the next eight weeks and cross taper with Escitalopram when I got to 75mg of Venlafaxine. 
The Eight weeks of Tapering, was extremely difficult to say the least. Increased Anxiety, crushing headaches etc. 

It seemed to get unbelievably hard when I went from 37.5mg to zero. I literally couldn’t get out of bed for the next 2 months, panic, nausea, headaches, derealisation, crying, brain fog, tinnitus, vertigo. It’s only for being lucky enough to have a loving supportive family that I got through this period. 
I was thinking this was the uptake side effects of the Escitalopram but I came across a bbc interview of a lady who seemed to be experiencing the same thing as me and it clicked that it’s possibly the Venlafaxine. 
I think I’ve been naive, everywhere I read, all the literature said 6 to 8 weeks of withdrawal 

I’ve been completely off the Venlafaxine for 4 months, and this past month things are slightly improving. 
It’s still horrible but it’s not as bad as it was. 
 

The symptoms are starting to come and go where as before it was constant. 
is this the waves and windows? 
 

I’m getting hours of feeling normal, no sickness, no vertigo, no tinnitus, no anxiety, no electric in my head. I feel hopeful about my future and the anxiety just isn’t there.
 

Then literally within minutes, the symptoms all come back, my head seems foggy, I feel totally over stimulated, vertigo,  Nausea comes back, my brain feeling like it’s wrapped in aluminium foil. I feel like I’m in a dream. I’m fearful and feel despair. 
There seems to be no pattern or consistency as to when this happens. It comes and goes at all different times regardless of any outside stressors etc. 
 

Could this be Venlafaxine withdrawal?. 
Am I justified in how sick I feel and how hard it’s been? 

Is it a good sign im being to feel better?

 

I would like to add, I am very regimental with regards to medication, I never miss doses. I don’t use any illegal drugs, I don’t smoke or drink alcohol. I’m quite clean living. 
 

I would greatly appreciate any input or thoughts. 
 

thankyou for reading. 

[Shep]

Hi, Et101.

 

Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants.

 

What you're describing does sound like withdrawal from Venlafaxine and you could also be getting side effects of the Escitalopram, as well. Withdrawal can destabilize the nervous system and cause hyper-reactions to new drugs. 

 

On 11/26/2022 at 4:09 PM, Et101 said:

The symptoms are starting to come and go where as before it was constant. 
is this the waves and windows? 

 

Yes, that does sound like waves and windows. 

 

Here are some links to get you started: 

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

How psychiatric drugs remodel your brain 

 

Healing from antidepressants. Patterns of recovery  video (4 minutes)

 

Are you interested in tapering the Escitalopram after you stabilize? If so, please let us know and we can get you some more information about that. 

 

[Onmyway]

Dear @Et101, 

welcome to SA. Seems like you are suffering from venlafaxine withdrawal. The escitalopram may cover some of those symptoms but not all. Also, that dose of escitalopram is quite high and likely too activating for you - the recommended dose of escitalopram is 10mg. Venlafaxine is a different type of drug from escitalopram (SNRI vs SSRI) and notorious for severe side effects but it is also hard to come off of eventually so you need to get to stability before you attempt to taper off of it. 

 

It is a great sign that you are starting to feel better, improvement happens in the windows and waves pattern which you seem to observe. 

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization - Symptoms and self-care - Surviving Antidepressants

What is happening in your brain? - Symptoms and self-care - Surviving Antidepressants

How psychiatric drugs remodel your brain - Symptoms and self-care - Surviving Antidepressants

 

Your symptoms are not unusual for coming off of venlafaxine abruptly, unfortunately, you can have a look at the terror through which many of our members have gone. Good news is that you will get better but it may take a while. 

OMW

[Et101]

Thanks for your reply. 
I’m completely off the Venlafaxine now, do you think it’s a case of  reaching stabilization from this and then withdrawal the escitalopram properly using a very slow taper when the time comes?
 

The more that I read on here, the more I believe it’s Venlafaxine withdrawal. I keep doubting that it could be this difficult. I had no idea that Venlafaxine could cause such serious withdrawal. 
 

Unfortunately I didn’t find this site sooner. I knew nothing about hyperbolic tapering etc. I’m holding on to the fact I’m beginning to feel better. It’s slow but there is progress. 
 

many thanks. 

[Onmyway]

Hi @Et101

yes, we would advise complete stabilization from venlafaxine withdrawal before attempting to taper escitalopram. Escitalopram is also a very difficult time to come off of so we would prefer that you start your taper from a place of stability. The good news is that this will get better and with proper slow tapering you can get off of escitalopram as well but you are looking at years of tapering (hopefully asymptomatically)

So glad that things are improving for you. It is very important to recognize that
OMW

[Et101]

Thanks everyone for your help. 
 

Can withdrawal cause, anxiety? I would get moments of feeling very overwhelmed and anxious. Nothing seems to trigger it, it’s very fleeting and sporadic. It can be there for 30 seconds then switch off completely. 
 

My normal anxiety issues feel different to this. 

[Shep]

13 hours ago, Et101 said:

Can withdrawal cause, anxiety?

 

Yes, very much so. Many people describe it as a "chemical anxiety," similar to having drunk a pot of coffee even though they haven't had any caffeine. It's described many times as a "physical anxiety" more than something brought on by circumstances or thoughts. 

 

If you can do breathing exercises or other non-drug coping skills to get your way through it, that can really help calm the nervous system down. 

 

Dr. Claire Weekes was a guru back in the day for helping people manage anxiety without drugs. This is one of her videos:

 

Dr. Claire Weekes - How to Handle Anxiety Attacks and Agoraphobia video (4 minutes)

 

You can find more of her talks on YouTube and by googling her name. 

[Et101]

Thankyou very much for replying. 
 

I had basically a full two days of peace, now today, the nausea and metal brain feelings are back along with the vertigo feeling And a terrible headache
I find when I feel like this it’s very easy to try and work out why, what am I doing wrong etc am I making this happen, am I to blame. 
 

It’s like a rollercoaster, one you can’t get off. I have to sit and endure the ride. 
 

I really appreciate the replies and feedback 

[Shep]

You're not doing anything wrong, @Et101. Those are just the windows and waves.

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

[Catina7]

6 hours ago, Et101 said:

Thankyou very much for replying. 
 

I had basically a full two days of peace, now today, the nausea and metal brain feelings are back along with the vertigo feeling And a terrible headache
I find when I feel like this it’s very easy to try and work out why, what am I doing wrong etc am I making this happen, am I to blame. 
 

It’s like a rollercoaster, one you can’t get off. I have to sit and endure the ride. 
 

I really appreciate the replies and feedback 

Oh my gosh, when I just read your post I felt like you were describing exactly what I've been going through!!!  It's pure torment, I know!!  Venlafaxine is pure poison, in my own opinion, and can cause horrendous withdrawal effects.  It can take people years to get off of it.  I was only going down 10% a month, but after about a year and a half of doing so it caught up to me and I went through something out of a horror movie.  I can't believe I lived to tell about it.  I'm still getting waves of symptoms and find that if I take anything that affects my central nervous system it can make things worse. Also, any stress makes it worse too.  I am currently on 37.5 mg and have to stay here until I stabilize.  I'm sure that with lots of time you will recover.  I'm so glad you have a supportive family....it really helps.  

[Catina7]

On 12/4/2022 at 3:10 PM, Et101 said:

Thanks everyone for your help. 
 

Can withdrawal cause, anxiety? I would get moments of feeling very overwhelmed and anxious. Nothing seems to trigger it, it’s very fleeting and sporadic. It can be there for 30 seconds then switch off completely. 
 

My normal anxiety issues feel different to this. 

Absolutely!!!  I am a person that normally deals with a lot of anxiety, but the anxiety that I have been experiencing during withdrawal is much worse....and feels different than my normal anxiety.  It's definitely being caused by the withdrawal.  It's just part of your brain trying to figure things out.  I find that exercise and EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique) really help....oh, and hot bubble baths!

[Onmyway]

@Et101, 

I find the first post in this thread very helpful in understanding various symptoms and the process of healing. 

What is happening in your brain? - Symptoms and self-care - Surviving Antidepressants

 

Here is a list of withdrawal symptoms that Joseph Glenmullen has collated. It might be helpful if new things emerge. You can also search on the site for various symptoms and what people may have done to help with it. 

 

 

 

[Et101]

Having a rough day today. Feel like I’m back to the start of the withdrawal. Today is the polar opposite of yesterday. 
It’s easy to be down hearted. I guess I’m in a wave? 
 

 

[Onmyway]

Hi @Et101

sorry to hear you are suffering. Unfortunately that is par for the course of this horrible affliction. Good news is that it does get better over time. 

 

Here are a couple of threads that may help: 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms - Symptoms and self-care - Surviving Antidepressants

Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems - Symptoms and self-care - Surviving Antidepressants

 

Many people find Claire Weekes' work very helpful  as well as magnesium and Omega-3. 

 

Hope you start feeling better soon,

OMW

[Et101]

Thankyou @Onmyway 

Do you think it’s “normal” for a wave to feel like the beginning again?  
it’s like the anxiety is back, ears are ringing, headache, feel nauseous and off balance again. Feeling detached and dream like. 
 

just hoping this lifts for a while again. 

[Onmyway]

Hi @Et101

yes, it is completely normal for a wave to feel like the beginning. Sometimes even worse. But usually not as bad as the beginning. You are still at the beginning though. You will get better even if it doesn't feel like it now 

OMW

[Et101]

@Onmyway @Catina7 @Shep

Today I was feeling pretty good, pottering around the house doing things, then all of a sudden I felt really nauseated, almost punch drunk feeling. Felt like I was falling down and the ground was moving. In these 20 mins or so i actually had to lie down it was so bad. Panic came on too.  It felt like it did when I went to 0mg of Venlafaxine. 
Can a wave last half an hour? It’s away now, but feeling abit rattled by it. 
I would really appreciate any input. 

[Shep]

Sure, a wave can last half an hour. Waves are very unpredictable. Windows can also pop up and leave very suddenly. It's an odd feeling when it happens. Glad the wave was so short - that's a good sign.