Cherokee73: Currently tapering Cymbalta/13 yrs of SSRI/SNRI

[Cherokee73]

I am completely new to the group. My 2012 resolution is to be free of psych meds. Having terrible time with those brain zaps, loopy head, lethargy especially first thing in the morning. My emotions (esp anger/sadness) are out of control. I was on the phone with the cable company and the rep wouldn't listen, he wanted to be heard, and I started crying to him on the phone. I truly believe the longer a person is on the POISON, the worse it is. When I was taking 60mg Cymbalta every day, before the 24 hours was up and my next dose was ready to be taken, I would encounter w/d symptoms (brain zaps, loopy head) Oh, and long term use of SSRI/SNRI can cause RLS, which I have been dealing with for about 7 years. I am taking Mirapex (Parkinsons disease med). I have had sciatica in both hips/legs since Oct 2011. I can't tolerate any nerve pain meds such as Neurontin or Lyrica. My lumbar spine is pristine, but apparantly the muscle tension is irritating the nerves. I quit my job in March 2012 due to the physical/mental pain. It didn't help that I lost both grandparents, both parents, one of my best friends, favorite aunt all within a 3 year period. When my dad died Aug 2011, that's when my body and mind went to Hell. I don't know how to deal with his death. I don't know how to deal with stress appropriately. (I dont use drugs though). And I don't know how to get off these pills without suffering nearly every w/d symptom that's listed. I was a CMA (medical asst) since 1999. I have worked in places through a temp agency where patient care was really bad. Now that I am "in the medical system web" I realize why so many patients are so frustrated. DOCTORS JUST DON'T LISTEN TO US. I hope this is not too long, but basicly I just need help. I have already read about going off 10% at a time, and I will certainly try that. Funny how the docs are so eager to give out these drugs. I have taken Clonazepam 0.25mg as needed for 12 yrs. I have never gotten "high" off it. I usually take it once or twice a week. Now my doc wants me to take 0.5mg any time I need it right now during this tapering off of meds. I have no faith anymore. Thank you.

[Skyler]

I hope this is not too long, but basicly I just need help. I have already read about going off 10% at a time, and I will certainly try that.

 

I have taken Clonazepam 0.25mg as needed for 12 yrs. I have never gotten "high" off it. I usually take it once or twice a week. Now my doc wants me to take 0.5mg any time I need it right now during this tapering off of meds. I have no faith anymore. Thank you.

 

Hi Cherokee.. You came to the best resource on the web for help getting off ADs. I'm most sorry to hear of all your losses, dealing with the grief is most difficult and sometimes we do need help.

 

The symptoms you had between dosing should have been a flag for more frequent doses at the least. And you do need to get off this crap given the side effects (not to mention any long term use is a reason). How much cymbalta are you on now? You have started to taper? How much have you been reducing, over what period of time. You may need to take a BID dose as you taper off.

 

Most people who take klonopin as you described do not have a need to get high (speaking for myself as well here.. I got roped in as it was prescribed for RLS!! Now I'm on requip.. a cousing of mirapex. Take a look at my sig line?) How often do you take the .25mgs, is it more than 2 or 3 times a week? You don't want to take a higher dose, as it would only work for a short time before you become tolerant and further addicted. Most docs don't know anything about tapering.

 

Your post is so not too long, though your voyage thru the drug maze has been. Alto will be relocating your thread to the intro section as that is where we follow our individual journeys. For now.. WELCOME TO OUR FORUM!

[meistersinger]

I am completely new to the group. My 2012 resolution is to be free of psych meds. Having terrible time with those brain zaps, loopy head, lethargy especially first thing in the morning. My emotions (esp anger/sadness) are out of control. I was on the phone with the cable company and the rep wouldn't listen, he wanted to be heard, and I started crying to him on the phone. I truly believe the longer a person is on the POISON, the worse it is. When I was taking 60mg Cymbalta every day, before the 24 hours was up and my next dose was ready to be taken, I would encounter w/d symptoms (brain zaps, loopy head) Oh, and long term use of SSRI/SNRI can cause RLS, which I have been dealing with for about 7 years. I am taking Mirapex (Parkinsons disease med). I have had sciatica in both hips/legs since Oct 2011. I can't tolerate any nerve pain meds such as Neurontin or Lyrica. My lumbar spine is pristine, but apparantly the muscle tension is irritating the nerves. I quit my job in March 2012 due to the physical/mental pain. It didn't help that I lost both grandparents, both parents, one of my best friends, favorite aunt all within a 3 year period. When my dad died Aug 2011, that's when my body and mind went to Hell. I don't know how to deal with his death. I don't know how to deal with stress appropriately. (I dont use drugs though). And I don't know how to get off these pills without suffering nearly every w/d symptom that's listed. I was a CMA (medical asst) since 1999. I have worked in places through a temp agency where patient care was really bad. Now that I am "in the medical system web" I realize why so many patients are so frustrated. DOCTORS JUST DON'T LISTEN TO US. I hope this is not too long, but basicly I just need help. I have already read about going off 10% at a time, and I will certainly try that. Funny how the docs are so eager to give out these drugs. I have taken Clonazepam 0.25mg as needed for 12 yrs. I have never gotten "high" off it. I usually take it once or twice a week. Now my doc wants me to take 0.5mg any time I need it right now during this tapering off of meds. I have no faith anymore. Thank you.

 

I feel your pain. I've been on and off this stuff since 1995. Had I known back in 1995 when I was younger, and a lot more naieve, I world have never started on this stuff, had I not been under the stress of working for the Department of Defense, and commuting almost 250 miles round trip each day, as I couldn't afford to live in Washington, DC. At the time, I also did not know I had Asperger's. I knew I was an oddball, but didn't know why.

 

I am truly sorry for your losses in your family. I lost my mother almost a year ago, and it still hurts. I didn't get the chance to say goodbye, as she was in a local nursing home, and I had some sort of bug that was going around, which I didn't want to give to her.

 

I still hurt from when my father died 26 years ago, as it was brought up in a therapy session. While I haven't thought about him in years, the hurt was still there, as I wasn't able to say goodbye. I was living in Metro Chicago at the time, and he was dying of liver cancer. While we didn't get along very well, he was still my father.

 

Unfortunately, I now live on the street, no thanks to being kicked out of what used to be my mother's house, which my next to younger brother purchased from her estate. I really can't blame him, since he viewed me as lazy. He does not believe I was depressed, nor that there is such a thing as withdrawal from psychotropic drugs. Being that he is ex Army Reserve, and was involved in the cleanup of Desert Storm, he acts like the world owes him for doing his job during those hostilities. I made the mistake criticizing him for going for special favors offered by local businesses for his time in the Middle East. He never really forgave me for that remark.

 

I also realize he is also under a lot of stress where he works, in addition to the bills he has other than the mortgage. I realize I wasn't doing much around the house. Most of the time, with the low mood I suffer from, I could not get out of bed, in addition to the nasty reaction I had to my current "poison," Viibryd. Add insulin-resistant diabetes type ii, hypertension, carpal tunnel syndrome and Asperger's to the mix, and you have a precarious situation.

 

My other brothers are either unable or unwilling to help. I am the eldest son in the family. Number 2 brother, who was executor to Mom's estate, has no room in his house, since his step-daughter and her fiancé are still living there, until he starts graduate school in a few weeks in Rhode Island. Besides, he says, we also like to entertain, and occasionally have guests staying overnight. In addition, since he remarried over 10 years ago, he has gotten holier than thou. My youngest brother's house is full since his stepson is living there, along with his low functioning autistic son and daughter. He can't throw out his stepson, since he found out his wife was thrown out of her home when she was pregnant with him.

 

I could blame my psychiatrist for all of the, but most of it is my fault to begin with, for not asking questions. Too late now. I did apply for Social Security disability last year, and was denied. I filed an appeal, which is to be heard on 14 September. Knowing how my life has.been going, I'll get stuck with a hard-nosed judge who will deny my consideration, despite my dis-abilities and limitations, even though I am willing to work and have a case open with the Office of Vocational Rehabilitation. Now it is a waiting game.

 

I wish you well with your journey on withdrawal, as it may or may not be a bed of roses.

[Cherokee73]

Thanks Schuyler.

I have been tapering off for about 2 mos. I had a problem the first week going from 60mg to 30mg every day, then it got better. Got down to 30mg every other day, feeling really bad, but couldn't hang with that. Now I am opening up the capsule trying to take a 15mg dose every 3 days. If I take a lot of Klonopin, it helps, but really????? I don't want to do that. What do you suggest?

As far as the Mirapex, it's too late. I have to take it every day now. I started off 2 or 3 times a wk. After working 8-4:30 every day, I would like to rest a bit on the couch before preparing dinner and all the other stuff. After 15 minutes of lying there, my legs would go nuts. I would be so frustrated b/c I was so tired, but legs wouldn't let me rest. I really didn't want to start taking that twice a day, like my doc said to. Once he told me to go up to 0,5mg, and I did, I woke up in the night, could barely make it up the stairs, was covered in sweat, ears were ringing so loud, slid on the floor and called my neighbor over. I took my own BP, it was 70/50. I drank salt water to help it come up. Idk how those ppl take 4mg a day and not die. I must say though, it is a wonderful med for the RLS, and it works all night.

Right now bc of my back problems, I am taking Oxycodone 5mg four times daily. It works on RLS too, but it only lasts the 4-6 hrs. So, I still have to take the Mirapex. It sounds crazy, but I wouldn't mind trying Oxycontin, which lasts 12 hrs for pain and sleep combined for about a month or so, just to get the Mirapex out of my system, and see if the RLS eases up.

Thank you again.

I haven't read your story yet.

[Barbarannamated]

Hi Cherokee.

 

Very glad you found this group. I am not qualified to advise on tapering... will leave that to Alto, the Administrator, and Schuyler who have years of experience in safe tapering of drugs. I found this group after a too-rapid taper off of Pristiq and have protracted withdrawal now (along with other health issues). It is a wonderfully supportive group.

Just wanted to welcome you.

 

Barb

[Altostrata]

Welcome to our community, Cherokee.

 

Skipping doses to taper is not a good way to gently move your brain off these drugs. It causes your blood level of Cymbalta to go up and down, which is not good for your nervous system -- it thrives on stability.

 

Since you're taking 15mg every 3 days, try taking 5mg at the same time every day, starting immediately. Do this for a week and see how you feel.

 

You may need to take more, updosing to the point your withdrawal symptoms stop. But do everything gradually to take care of your nervous system.

 

It is possible the RLS and even the pain is a side effect of Cymbalta. It sounds like 60mg might have been an excessive dose for you and you had other adverse effects.

 

(Please add paragraphs breaks in your long posts, it makes them easier to read.)

[Cherokee73]

Thank you for your reply. I will certainly try to figure out how to make dose out of the cymbalta capsule granules.

I understand that SSRIs can cause RLS. Over the years, I have been on Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor, Lexapro, Prozac. My pain doctor and my psych suggested I go on Cymbalta bc it supposably helps with pain as well as depression. For me, it didn't. I actually haven't been on Cymbalta that long. Was on Lexapro 10mg for about 5 yrs before Cymbalta.

It has been so hard. Sometimes I feel so bad, I think I might not wake up out of my sleep. I woke up tonight in a panic, but I quickly recovered 15 mins later. My brain is so messed up right now. When I fell back to sleep, I woke up gasping, which is quite common over the past couple years. Idk what that is about. It feels like I am forgetting to breathe in my sleep, and I wake gasping a deep breath.

I didn't mention that my doc put me on Lamictal. I had agreed to it last week bc I have been feeling bipolar and mentally unstable. (Bipolar a lot, unstable at times) especially since the tapering off. Since reading this post, I have decided to hold off on taking that. I was still on the baby dose of 25mg day.

I believe my pain from my mid back down through the sciatic nerves is quite possibly due to severe muscle tension. I have severe OA in my neck, so my pain is medically justified in that area. Docs just don't listen. I find they like to talk too much. If they would shut up and listen to my problems, I would have a chance to get through this better.

Melanie

[Barbarannamated]

I understand that SSRIs can cause RLS. Over the years, I have been on Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor, Lexapro, Prozac. My pain doctor and my psych suggested I go on Cymbalta bc it supposably helps with pain as well as depression. For me, it didn't. I actually haven't been on Cymbalta that long. Was on Lexapro 10mg for about 5 yrs before Cymbalta.

It has been so hard. Sometimes I feel so bad, I think I might not wake up out of my sleep. I woke up tonight in a panic, but I quickly recovered 15 mins later. My brain is so messed up right now. When I fell back to sleep, I woke up gasping, which is quite common over the past couple years. Idk what that is about. It feels like I am forgetting to breathe in my sleep, and I wake gasping a deep breath.

I didn't mention that my doc put me on Lamictal. I had agreed to it last week bc I have been feeling bipolar and mentally unstable. (Bipolar a lot, unstable at times) especially since the tapering off. Since reading this post, I have decided to hold off on taking that. I was still on the baby dose of 25mg day.

I believe my pain from my mid back down through the sciatic nerves is quite possibly due to severe muscle tension. I have severe OA in my neck, so my pain is medically justified in that area. Docs just don't listen. I find they like to talk too much. If they would shut up and listen to my problems, I would have a chance to get through this better.

Melanie

 

Melanie,

 

I'm glad you found your way to this group. You have several different factors playing in that doctors may not be recognizing and/or communicating about. For me, SS/NRIs never helped and worsened the pain and depression. SSRIs can cause both bruxism (teeth grinding) and RLS. Both are considered movement disorders.

 

I've taken opiates off and on for many years. Doctors put me on Cymbalta and Nucynta (separate times) attempting to treat pain and depression with same drug. Neither worked for me either. I had a FAR easier time discontinuing opiates after 8 years than Pristiq, an SNRI related to Effexor. I'm not advocating opiate use, only sharing my experience because doctors strongly believe that opiates have a horrendous addiction/withdrawal problem and are pushing people to use Cymbalta and other SS/NRIs which are, in many peoples' firsthand experiences, far more difficult to discontinue.

*I'm very passionate about this medical fallacy. Will step down off my soapbox now.

 

#2. Withdrawal from serotonergic drugs cause many bizarre symptoms including emotional outburst and mood fluctuations THAT WERE NEVER PRESENT BEFORE OR ON DRUGS. This does not mean you are bipolar. I understand that you are simply describing how you feel, but i strongly discourage the use of the term "bipolar" or "depressed". It opens the door for doctors to slap another diagnosis on you and prescribe more drugs.

 

These drugs suppress natural emotions. As they come back online, it often happens in spurts and feels very scary and unstable, as you described. This is classic withdrawal. Altostrata will assist you with a careful taper to minimize these fluctuations. I've worked professionally with many psychiatrists who do not understand these drugs as well as Alto and others on this forum do.

 

Your thought of going to Oxycontin (extended release oxycodone) sounds reasonable. Short acting drugs can cause interdose withdrawal (Xanax is an example). Is PAIN waking you at night? Or is the GASPING waking you? Has anyone (spouse, partner) observed what happens when you wake at night (snoring, etc.)?

 

Did the sleep/wake/gasping problems correspond to other med changes (starting, stopping, switching) ?

 

Sorry for all of the questions. Hoping to get the full picture.

[Altostrata]

Cherokee, you can count the Cymbalta beads, weigh them with a scale for more precise dosages, or have a compounding pharmacy make capsules of smaller dosages for you. See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/283-tips-for-tapering-off-cymbalta-duloxetine/

 

You're not bipolar, you're suffering adverse effects from the medications.

 

You may wish to get physical therapy for the sciatica. I had it and physical therapy, plus regular exercises, completely eliminated it. Since your spine is healthy, this might be just the thing for you.

 

Many of these physical complaints can be alleviated with physical therapy rather than drugs.

[Cherokee73]

Thank you Altostratta and Barbara (if that's ok to call you that). I will count the beads and start that tomorrow. I took 15mg today.

I have had bruxism since I was a child. I went to PT last fall/winter for the low, mid, upper back pain. After a few weeks of therapy 3 times weekly, I developed sciatica. My pain doc put me on a Medrol dose pack, and I was about 60% better. Went back to therapy about a wk later, walked out with my sciatic nerve hurting again. The ultrasound and the pulling on my legs seemed to aggravate it. When my therapist would push on my vertebrae, I developed severe shoulder and neck pain. I had always had neck pain, but that wasn't my major complaint. My doc ordered MRI of neck and we found out about the severe OA and two disc protrusions. I started traction at PT for that. One day on traction, I had a terrible shooting pain from my neck down past my buttocks. I quit PT. Started chiropractor for several months. Didn't get worse, didn't get better.

I have had lower back pain since I was about 21, now 39. Started SSRIs at 24. What I do know is after my dad died in Aug 2011, I have gone way downhill. I know I have severe muscle tension. I am scheduled for a rhizotomy (burning of nerves) in my neck very soon.

Pain doesn't usually wake me up in the night, it keeps me from sleeping. Some nights are worse than others. I had a couple gasps in my early 20s. After I started taking the SSRIs regularly, late 1999, I seemed to just have typical side effects of the meds (constipation, loss of sex drive). It was probably around 2004 that the RLS started. I couldn't even complete a sleep study (couldn't sleep at all). The Mirapex is an awesome drug for that, although scary. I have TMJ also. Last dental appt my doc wouldn't do my cleaning without being on muscle relaxer 2 weeks prior so I could handle having my mouth open 1/2 hr. I am supposed to wear my mouth guard. This past month, I have been grinding when I wake up in the night. Rare that I sleep through. Muscle jerks definitely happened after taking the SS/NRIs.

I felt so much better today taking the 15mg Cymbalta. But will try the 5mg tomorrow. Wish me luck.

Thanks

[Barbarannamated]

Very glad that the dosing change helped.

 

I hope the rhizotomy helps your pain. I had one several years ago and it did help.

It was discovered recently that I had Premature Ovarian Failure (symptoms of low estrogen long ago). A low dose estrogen patch has helped with neck and TMJ pain considerably. I only mention because your symptoms are so similar to mine.

 

B

[Altostrata]

Please let us know how you're doing, Cherokee.

 

You may need more than 5mg per day, but start there and see how you do.

 

That doesn't sound like good physical therapy!

[Cherokee73]

Hello there. It has been a long long time. I'm happy to say that I did eventually get off the cymbalta, but it took around a year! how? I asked my dr to put me on 5mg of Lexapro. (He didn't listen to my claims that coming off the meds was causing the distress, so I just played it off and asked to go on lexapro which I had taken before. Reason I asked for lexapro is bc it's a solid, not a capsule, and it's not XR, which I believe made the cymbalta so hard to come out of my system. What I did was bite tiny pieces of the pill when the head whips, nausea, and droopiness got too uncomfortable. Eventually the time between became farther and farther apart, but there were times I needed a piece even after a month! It's been around 2yrs that I've been off the meds, I still get the same feelings every cpl wks but never enough that I need to take a piece of pill, HOWEVER my RLS never went away.

I've waited two yrs for a commercial to come on tv from a law firm making claims about paresthesia, discontinuation syndrome, etc from cymbalta. Finally, one came on, I called....of course. We are in early stages of my case, but I was told that there are ppl who experience these symptoms even after a short period of time. I've noticed that pharmaceutical commercials disclose some of these temp/perm side effects now. I suppose that's how they are getting away with it, avoiding lawsuits. Sadly, ppl won't think it's that serious. Doctors still are in the dark. It's sick. I think I now have anger issue as a result of all of it. I WON, YET I LOST. My lawyer said that these meds can cause antidepressants to become ineffective. I've tried tricyclics, lithium, seroquel, wellbutrin, nothing can get me out of this depression. Honestly, my situation is tough bc of chronic pain, can't work, loss of family, been denied 3x for disability, so that very well is keeping me from overcoming. My RLS is now treated with long acting opiate, so at least I'm getting dual relief from that. I wonder......not that I would ever........but wonder if heroin is safer than these ssri/snri.

Whoever helped me b4, it's been so long, I thank u, and I love you. If u need a spokesperson, a volunteer, I will help. Thank God for this site.