Jump to content
Neuroplastic

Apathy, anhedonia, emotional numbness, emotional anesthesia

Recommended Posts

Bamo
7 minutes ago, 1Day said:

Do you know/remember if there were stories of people recovering from PSSD and emotional numbness

 

@1Day I think @Altostrata had anhedonia and pssd and recovered if I am not mistaken.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
brassmonkey

Hi 1Day-- that was many years ago so the memories are getting faint.  As I recall there wasn't much discussion of PSSD at Prior Place. As for anhedonia, most of the success stories I ran into talked about regaining their emotions.  Personally I had a lot of anhedonia during my paxil use and taper, but as I tapered off my emotions slowly reappeared and by the time I made the jump to "0" it wasn't a problem any more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Snorky
10 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Hi 1Day-- that was many years ago so the memories are getting faint.  As I recall there wasn't much discussion of PSSD at Prior Place. As for anhedonia, most of the success stories I ran into talked about regaining their emotions.  Personally I had a lot of anhedonia during my paxil use and taper, but as I tapered off my emotions slowly reappeared and by the time I made the jump to "0" it wasn't a problem any more.

Unfortunately for me, my anhedonia (if that’s what it is), is only manifested during CT phase, not medication. Yesterday was four months plus a week since amitriptyline CT. There was a subtle, but distinct, deterioration again. My only salvation had been reading and watching sport. Yesterday, these also produced awful negative sensations when trying to enjoy. Depression, anhedonia, inner rage and restlessness. I wondered if this mental restlessness could be a limited or early form of akathasia? (I’ll probably ruminate about that now)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1Day
On 1/14/2020 at 9:08 PM, Bamo said:

 

@1Day I think @Altostrata had anhedonia and pssd and recovered if I am not mistaken.

Thanks Bamo - yes you are right

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1Day
16 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Hi 1Day-- that was many years ago so the memories are getting faint.  As I recall there wasn't much discussion of PSSD at Prior Place. As for anhedonia, most of the success stories I ran into talked about regaining their emotions.  Personally I had a lot of anhedonia during my paxil use and taper, but as I tapered off my emotions slowly reappeared and by the time I made the jump to "0" it wasn't a problem any more.

Thank you Brassmonkey.  I did not do a proper slow taper because I was not aware of this site.  I finally managed to come off the SSRI over the course of a year but with big jumps cutting down say from 20mg to 15mg and so on.  When I was on a very low dose I started to have periods where PSSD and emotional numbing resolved and this continued during the first few weeks I was off the drug (windows of two or three days where I was pretty much back to normal).  But then 5 weeks after I was off the drug, everything went very bad and I have been suffering with PSSD and emotional numbing ever since.  Because I was starting to get back to normal whilst still on the drug, I don't know whether to consider my symptoms now as continuing adverse reactions, or as withdrawal symptoms?  Do you think because of those periods I had where I was back to normal, it is a good sign I will recover eventually?  I am exactly 3 years off the drug now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bamo

@1Day I wish I had windows too. I have never had any windows since I took the AD. I almost forget what feeling emotions feels like if it makes sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Snorky

I wish someone would comment on my species of anhedonia, particularly the agitation type mental tightness that prevents watching, listening and reading etc.

 

I’ve called it out as mental akathasia and keep waiting for it to become full blown paving around etc.

 

Thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
brassmonkey

1Day-- Coming off of 20mg in only  a year is a very fast taper and will cause a reaction very similar to a CT. The flashes of improvement in your symptoms before making the jump were probably just your body trying to understand and cope with what was happening to it.  Once you were completely off your body could understand it's situation and make the reaction that it did.  For a CT the fourth year is frequently marked with some good improvements in the symptom levels. The emotional numbing should start showing some signs of improving.  PSSD is such and intricate and personal symptom it is very hard to make any call on it.  It could clear up tomorrow or it could drag on for quite some time.  Like I said there are just to many factors involved to try and make a call. We do have many members here who can attest to the fact that it will eventually clear up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Onmyway
13 hours ago, Snorky said:

I wish someone would comment on my species of anhedonia, particularly the agitation type mental tightness that prevents watching, listening and reading etc.

 

I’ve called it out as mental akathasia and keep waiting for it to become full blown paving around etc.

 

Thank you

Snorky,

There is nothing to comment on. We don't know what's happening in your specific body. We have limited knowledge overall. Commenting is not going to make things better for you. 

 

What you are doing by constantly asking about specific symptoms is called reassurance seeking in OCD and it exacerbates OCD symptoms. You really need to look into CBT urgently. None of us here are equipped to treat your specific symptoms. 

 

Find yourself a CBT therapist  specialised in OCD. It will help with some of these behaviors. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Snorky
1 hour ago, Onmyway said:

Snorky,

There is nothing to comment on. We don't know what's happening in your specific body. We have limited knowledge overall. Commenting is not going to make things better for you. 

 

What you are doing by constantly asking about specific symptoms is called reassurance seeking in OCD and it exacerbates OCD symptoms. You really need to look into CBT urgently. None of us here are equipped to treat your specific symptoms. 

 

Find yourself a CBT therapist  specialised in OCD. It will help with some of these behaviors. 

Thanks. Just wondered if anyone had experienced these symptoms?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Onmyway
4 hours ago, Snorky said:

Thanks. Just wondered if anyone had experienced these symptoms?

Yes, if you look into the various forums you will see that people have experienced all of the symptoms you report. That's fairly easy to find out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Snorky
20 minutes ago, Onmyway said:

Yes, if you look into the various forums you will see that people have experienced all of the symptoms you report. That's fairly easy to find out.

Thanks. Did look, but couldn’t find that species of anhedonia/mental akathasia.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Onmyway
18 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Thanks. Did look, but couldn’t find that species of anhedonia/mental akathasia.

Snorky, 

there is no species of it and it is really not important which one you have, if there had been various species of it. Classifying it doesn't help with absolutely anything. There might not be a person who has had the exact symptoms you've had - there are plenty of people who can't watch TV for a while, there are plenty of people who want to get out of their skins in response to something, there are plenty of people who have rage at seemingly simple things. I've had ALL of them. Calling it anhedonia or akathisia or some other medical term is not going to change it. 

 

Asking if someone has had the exact same experience is as useless as asking someone with food poisoning whether they held the spoon with their left hand or their right hand when they ate the spoilt food. It has no informative value for treating the food poisoning. 

 

Asking whether someone's had the exact same experience as you is not helping you. It is actively hurting you because you are obsessing about the specific symptoms and waiting for reassurance. That is a compulsion in OCD terms. You may not have complete control over the obssessions but the basic principle of breaking OCD is to tolerate the anxiety that comes from not doing the compulsion - i.e. not asking about the specific symptoms in this case. But you have had other obsessions with reinstatement from what I can see in your blog. Every time you ask, and every time you get an answer, you ask again and you need even more reassurance and every single time your compulsion is strengthened and your fear is validated. ALL of these scary psych symptoms are withdrawal.

 

You may have had things before and WD may be exacerbating it and because of that you need real help with the anxiety, support forum help is not cutting it. The guy at work who offered CBT, please share with him this and ask if he can help you with mild exercises in tolerating uncertainty and breaking the compulsion cycle. Because of WD, things seem to be quite tough but you can take some steps to get better. The first step is to stop asking for reassurance. It is making things worse for you. S/he can provide lots of other tools. It will be tough in the beginning  but you can do it. 

 

Note that I am not saying you have OCD, I am not familiar with your case. I am familiar with reassurance seeking from OCD but it applies to more general anxiety issues as well. Also, the fact that you have OCD like symptoms in WD does not mean you have OCD - sometimes it is just WD. The link below may be helpful to understand it. 

https://psychcentral.com/lib/ocd-and-the-need-for-reassurance/

 

I hate to see you suffering. But it is in your power to help stop your suffering. You can break this cycle. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Snorky
20 minutes ago, Onmyway said:

Snorky, 

there is no species of it and it is really not important which one you have, if there had been various species of it. Classifying it doesn't help with absolutely anything. There might not be a person who has had the exact symptoms you've had - there are plenty of people who can't watch TV for a while, there are plenty of people who want to get out of their skins in response to something, there are plenty of people who have rage at seemingly simple things. I've had ALL of them. Calling it anhedonia or akathisia or some other medical term is not going to change it. 

 

Asking if someone has had the exact same experience is as useless as asking someone with food poisoning whether they held the spoon with their left hand or their right hand when they ate the spoilt food. It has no informative value for treating the food poisoning. 

 

Asking whether someone's had the exact same experience as you is not helping you. It is actively hurting you because you are obsessing about the specific symptoms and waiting for reassurance. That is a compulsion in OCD terms. You may not have complete control over the obssessions but the basic principle of breaking OCD is to tolerate the anxiety that comes from not doing the compulsion - i.e. not asking about the specific symptoms in this case. But you have had other obsessions with reinstatement from what I can see in your blog. Every time you ask, and every time you get an answer, you ask again and you need even more reassurance and every single time your compulsion is strengthened and your fear is validated. ALL of these scary psych symptoms are withdrawal.

 

You may have had things before and WD may be exacerbating it and because of that you need real help with the anxiety, support forum help is not cutting it. The guy at work who offered CBT, please share with him this and ask if he can help you with mild exercises in tolerating uncertainty and breaking the compulsion cycle. Because of WD, things seem to be quite tough but you can take some steps to get better. The first step is to stop asking for reassurance. It is making things worse for you. S/he can provide lots of other tools. It will be tough in the beginning  but you can do it. 

 

Note that I am not saying you have OCD, I am not familiar with your case. I am familiar with reassurance seeking from OCD but it applies to more general anxiety issues as well. Also, the fact that you have OCD like symptoms in WD does not mean you have OCD - sometimes it is just WD. The link below may be helpful to understand it. 

https://psychcentral.com/lib/ocd-and-the-need-for-reassurance/

 

I hate to see you suffering. But it is in your power to help stop your suffering. You can break this cycle. 

 

 

Thanks O

 

“Tolerating the anxiety that comes from not doing the obsession” is v good advice indeed. I’ve always had an issue accepting that anxiety/depress could generate the physiological symptoms I’ve experienced for years. (Long b4 WD) In 2018 I spent months chasing neurological diagnoses to my symptoms. (Shaking, muscular stiff, photosensitivity and pain) It wasn’t that I believed I had one of the major neurological disorders, more that the underlying condition was generating these symptoms. I got some explanations around “somatisation and functioning neurological disorder” blah blah. 

 

I think I just need to understand, without obsessing, that WD has added the angst and mood issues that I didn’t have b4. 

 

Going to follow up CBT tomorrow. If so had any scepticism about this, it was just that I had (wrongly) determined that this would be inadequate for my tangible/chemically induced symptoms? However, I now understand it’s not as simple as this.

 

(Don’t think I was obsessing about reinstatement, just tried and struggled with adverse effects)

 

 

I really do appreciate your coherent and constructive thoughts.

 

Thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Onmyway
2 hours ago, Snorky said:

Thanks O

 

“Tolerating the anxiety that comes from not doing the obsession” is v good advice indeed. I’ve always had an issue accepting that anxiety/depress could generate the physiological symptoms I’ve experienced for years. (Long b4 WD) In 2018 I spent months chasing neurological diagnoses to my symptoms. (Shaking, muscular stiff, photosensitivity and pain) It wasn’t that I believed I had one of the major neurological disorders, more that the underlying condition was generating these symptoms. I got some explanations around “somatisation and functioning neurological disorder” blah blah. 

 

I think I just need to understand, without obsessing, that WD has added the angst and mood issues that I didn’t have b4. 

 

Going to follow up CBT tomorrow. If so had any scepticism about this, it was just that I had (wrongly) determined that this would be inadequate for my tangible/chemically induced symptoms? However, I now understand it’s not as simple as this.

 

(Don’t think I was obsessing about reinstatement, just tried and struggled with adverse effects)

 

 

I really do appreciate your coherent and constructive thoughts.

 

Thank you.

Hi Snorky, 

I don't think that CBT will take away all your symptoms but I think it will help and it will put you on an upward spiral. There will be setbacks for sure as with anything in life but these skills will really help. WD is hard and breaking the anxiety loop is probably just as hard sometimes. But you have to try for your own sake. It takes walking back from the urge for compulsion a million times, walking back a million times from the what-ifs but every time you do you strengthen those neural pathways and it gets a tiny bit easier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Snorky
24 minutes ago, Onmyway said:

Hi Snorky, 

I don't think that CBT will take away all your symptoms but I think it will help and it will put you on an upward spiral. There will be setbacks for sure as with anything in life but these skills will really help. WD is hard and breaking the anxiety loop is probably just as hard sometimes. But you have to try for your own sake. It takes walking back from the urge for compulsion a million times, walking back a million times from the what-ifs but every time you do you strengthen those neural pathways and it gets a tiny bit easier.

Thank you again. What you say makes eminent sense. Will let you know how I get on with CBT.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Onmyway
4 hours ago, Snorky said:

Thank you again. What you say makes eminent sense. Will let you know how I get on with CBT.

Good luck! From my experience, CBT is not easy. But it works. You just have to do the exercises, do the homework like a school kid and see those neural paths change. There will be setbacks and it won't be quick and it won't be painless as it will ask you to tolerate some difficult emotions. But you have to remember the prize - feeling better. Cheering from the sidelines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1Day
On 1/16/2020 at 4:43 AM, brassmonkey said:

1Day-- Coming off of 20mg in only  a year is a very fast taper and will cause a reaction very similar to a CT. The flashes of improvement in your symptoms before making the jump were probably just your body trying to understand and cope with what was happening to it.  Once you were completely off your body could understand it's situation and make the reaction that it did.  For a CT the fourth year is frequently marked with some good improvements in the symptom levels. The emotional numbing should start showing some signs of improving.  PSSD is such and intricate and personal symptom it is very hard to make any call on it.  It could clear up tomorrow or it could drag on for quite some time.  Like I said there are just to many factors involved to try and make a call. We do have many members here who can attest to the fact that it will eventually clear up.

Thanks, Brassmonkey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use Privacy Policy