starlitegirlx: slowly tapered off Imipramine

[starlitegirlx]

The topic pretty much says it all. My doc is useless. While the severity of the withdrawal is decreasing gradually, I wonder if I'll ever stop having the dizziness or blurred vision or be able to walk normal rather than cautiously for fear of sudden dizziness or falling. I feel totally handicapped and basically bed limited. I don't have the energy to do much of anything. I should probably add that I took this med for 16 years because I was supposed to due to bipolar diagnosis. In retrospect it never helped a bit. I decided to go off it after I developed vibrations in my legs which I discovered is an issue with this med. I weaned cautiously cutting 5m every two weeks or so for several months (from 100mg dose). Less that 10% decreased until I got to low dosages and then that's when discontinuation syndrome got severe. before that it was some symptoms, but they were minimal and tolerable. At 25mg they really got bad. That was a while ago. I've been off this med for 2.5 months and while I can say that there has been improvement (at one point I was taking 12 mg of klonopin to counteract the horrific pain, tremors, vibrations, etc of the withdrawal) but now I'm between 4mg to 6mg most days with a rare day of 2mg or 8mg depending on if it's a better (really better day) or worse day, really worse day.

 

I'm starting to wonder if I'll ever return to normal or if the imipramine really screwed up my system so completely that I may never fully recover. Worse, is that I'm bipolar and on SSDI, and really don't have much of a life to begin with so add in this and well, let's just say I was ready to slit my throat for a few months there but somehow found the strength to make it through. I still take 300mg tegretol and klonopin as needed. The klonopin helps and has gotten me through this nightmare, but honestly, I don't know that if this may always be like this even at a lower level, if I'm willing to live like this.

 

Please help me and share experiences and input. I've been hanging in there and the only positive not is that there has been improvement in the almost 3 months off it regarding pain, suffering and amount of klonopin needed just to make it through the day. Yet, I have concern about long term debilitation regarding dizziness, walking, general limitation that further reduce my quality of life. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, starlightgirl, to our community.

 

I'm sorry you're going through this. As you know, you have withdrawal syndrome.

 

It's a very good sign the symptoms have decreased in intensity so far. Hang in there, you'll get through this.

 

How are you taking the Tegretol? How does it help you?

 

Why, after being on imipramine for so long, do you think you're bipolar?

 

Do you have any imipramine left?

 

Our member Schuyler (who used to be called Georgie) recommends this sympathetic doctor in Providence, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/988-recommended-doctors-therapists-or-clinics/page__view__findpost__p__18814 He doesn't know a lot about withdrawal syndrome but he might be better than your current doctor.

[starlitegirlx]

Welcome, starlightgirl, to our community.

 

I'm sorry you're going through this. As you know, you have withdrawal syndrome.

 

It's a very good sign the symptoms have decreased in intensity so far. Hang in there, you'll get through this.

 

How are you taking the Tegretol? How does it help you?

 

Why, after being on imipramine for so long, do you think you're bipolar?

 

Do you have any imipramine left?

 

Our member Schuyler (who used to be called Georgie) recommends this sympathetic doctor in Providence, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/988-recommended-doctors-therapists-or-clinics/page__view__findpost__p__18814 He doesn't know a lot about withdrawal syndrome but he might be better than your current doctor.

 

I am not sure about the bipolar label especially since they have a couple of options within it, but I do know that life stress and situational stress trigger depression for me. So I learned some coping tools (buddhism accept what is was a huge one for me). I was diagnosed at around 20 as bipolar. And over the years had many episodes (no mania, just depression) which seemed to say yes I was.

 

I take the tegretol at night and I'm not sure it helps me but at this point, I don't want to add another withdrawal into the mix. I don't believe it harms me as it's a really low dose. But when I get through this, maybe after a year, I'll consider cutting down the tegretol. But only after my body is stabilized from off the imipramine.

 

I don't have any imipramine left, and my doc when I spoke with him suggested taking a tiny bit (I went off at 3 mg dose - that was my lowest dose guessing though since I was cutting a 10mg triangle pill), but I didn't want to go backwards, especially now since I've had improvement. I feel like it might counteract the improvement I've had. I think I would only do it if after another month or two I'm still not getting better with walking an vision and dizziness. But since I have improved, I think putting any amount of what I feel is a toxic and dangerous substance that destroyed my system into my body would be risky and probably counter any progress I made thus far. If in a few more months I'm still where I am, I will consider it. The dizziness, walking gait being off, blurry vision and leg tingling along with some tremors that are getting more minor by the day or week are the last parts of withdrawal I seem to be experiencing, so it's more like I'm holding out and hanging in there and reading my symptom severe number and klonopin dose for the day (I've kept this journal since about a month after I started) so I can SEE tangible evidence as proof of my improvement. That keeps me going.

 

I'm going to stick with my current doc since he knows the whole situation and handles my ssdi. I think I was really hard on him but after reading stuff here I realize he's just ignorant about it and in denial that imipramine could do this whereas it seems he understands true SSRIs can. Then again, he's got a huge sample size of two people that have gone off imipramine after long term use - me and another man who took it for ten years but had no issues. Of course, I don't know how much he took and there's the 'every person is different' aspect as well.

[Altostrata]

I can understand why you don't want to go back on imipramine, but my suggestion is the same -- go back on a tiny dose -- 3mg sounds right -- stabilize for a couple of months, and taper from there.

 

You can make a liquid from the imipramine (see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2693-how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules/ ) or get a liquid from a compounding pharmacy so you can sneak off in small, controlled decreases. (It's soluble in water, see http://www.drugs.com/pro/imipramine.html and stable for a month http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2710.1976.tb00053.x/abstract )

 

Reinstatement is not sure to work, but it will save some wear and tear on your nervous system. Withdrawal symptoms are a sign your nervous system is in shock from the medication changes.

 

It may take you quite a while to recover from withdrawal syndrome, and since it's a quality-of-life issue, please consider this.

 

I agree, don't change the Tegretol now. I thought you were taking it "as needed" but now I see you meant the Klonopin.

 

As for your being bipolar, you might want to read http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/matter-personality/201204/how-recognize-bad-psychiatrist Many, many people are misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder.

 

A lot of people might get "depressed" under stress, and you're a different person now. Your Buddhist practice would help with this.

[starlitegirlx]

I can understand why you don't want to go back on imipramine, but my suggestion is the same -- go back on a tiny dose -- 3mg sounds right -- stabilize for a couple of months, and taper from there.

 

You can make a liquid from the imipramine (see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2693-how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules/ ) or get a liquid from a compounding pharmacy so you can sneak off in small, controlled decreases. (It's soluble in water, see http://www.drugs.com/pro/imipramine.html and stable for a month http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2710.1976.tb00053.x/abstract )

 

Reinstatement is not sure to work, but it will save some wear and tear on your nervous system. Withdrawal symptoms are a sign your nervous system is in shock from the medication changes.

 

It may take you quite a while to recover from withdrawal syndrome, and since it's a quality-of-life issue, please consider this.

 

I agree, don't change the Tegretol now. I thought you were taking it "as needed" but now I see you meant the Klonopin.

 

As for your being bipolar, you might want to read http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/matter-personality/201204/how-recognize-bad-psychiatrist Many, many people are misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder.

 

A lot of people might get "depressed" under stress, and you're a different person now. Your Buddhist practice would help with this.

 

Maybe I could do less than 3 mg. My doc had suggested a smaller taper down where I mix it with water, just to keep some in my system. You know, it's probably worth a try as much as I hate to go back on it at all. 3mg is a very small dose. So maybe getting that much back in my system will calm things. I'm just wondering where I go from there. How long do I wait before I try to taper again or do I stay on it forever?

 

I know all to well about the quick to label people bipolar epidemic. I think I'm just prone to depression and have to watch my stress and particularly situation stress.

 

I think I will refill my 10mg prescription and go back to three just so see how that changes things. It might help just enough but what would be your recommendation from there? Stay on 3mg for a while then maybe when I see my doc in sept/oct figure out how to decrease a little more? I'm just wondering how to handle it from there and what your recommendation would be. Also hoping that after nearly three months it's not too late to put it back in my system and that it doesn't cause more problems than staying off it altogether. Those are a couple of genuinely serious concerns I have - that my body is adapting to not having it and if I put it back on the 'menu' will that throw off the adaption process. Damn these meds.

[Altostrata]

Since you started getting bad withdrawal symptoms at 25mg, you might need more, but 3mg seems like a good place to start.

 

If reinstatement alleviates your withdrawal symptoms, if I were you, I'd stabilize for at least a couple of months, then try a reduction of 10% per month for a couple of months. See Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Also see Tapering techniques. There's a lot of info in the Tapering forum.

 

It will take you a while longer to get off imipramine, but it will be better for your nervous system.

[starlitegirlx]

I just refilled my 10mg script. They'll have it ready in 20 minutes. I'll start with 3mg and see if that does the trick being that I'm a few months into the process. I'll give that a try for a few weeks and if I have to increase a bit more like to 5 or 8mg then I guess it's still better than when I was on 100mg, right? I'll just have to read through your info on tapering and see how to do it most effectively with as minimal side effects as possible.

 

I wonder if a 3mg dose will still do damage on my system. I really wanted to end that and heal but suffering just to be off a med is foolish. Hopefully, 3 mg will be enough but I have two 10 mg in my script so if I have to go back up to 5mg or 8mg to mitigate the withdrawal hell then I guess that's worth it. Better than living like I have been. If I can't walk well then there's a probably, especially if I can't walk well for more than 50 feet. I once walked 2.5-5 miles a day at a beautiful park. So I guess any damage to my system from taking this small dose is less than overall fallout from not taking it at all.

 

Thank you for being here. I am grateful you are helping me and helping all of us.

[spectio]

Hi, starlitegirlx: we're so glad you're here. You will absolutely find informed and compassionate help here. Alto knows her stuff and will not steer you wrong.

 

I also just wanted to commend you for your determined and rational way of going about your withdrawal. We know how hard it has been and probably will be for a while. All of us have our horror stories. We've all found traditional medicine of NO help whatsoever. They are all very willing to point the finger at you and indicate the drugs are the only way. Please don't listen to them!! How can they make a judgement about what we 're going through if they know absolutlely NOTHING about how these drugs work and even less what they do to our brains.

 

The scenario sounds like The Manchurian Candidate where all the soldiers are pumped up with mind altering drugs to do the big shots bidding. Maybe in our case like in the movie the ultimate victims will be the perpetrators of the crime!! In this case, hopefully the psychiatrists will finally be exposed for the pseudo doctors they REALLY are!!

 

HANG IN THERE!!!

[starlitegirlx]

I went back through my journal and it looks like 10 mg was where I really started to spike high on withdrawal and klonopin use. So if 3 mg over say 2 or three weeks doesn't help then maybe up to 5 mg and if that doesn't help maybe 8 mg up to 10mg to see if I can get rid of the withdrawal I'm going through right now or mitigate it enough so it's more tolerable. 25 was where I noticed it because I had been cutting in 5mgs but then when the withdrawal was harsh I went to 3mg cuts and had no issues until around 10 mg. 13mg was a bit rougher than previous cuts but not horrible or really bad because my klonopin use was still low barring 2 nights with insomnia and racing heart issues, but still not like 10 mg because that was a 25% decrease.

 

I'll see how things go at 3mg. How long do you think it will take for me to see if there's an improvement? A few weeks or would it be longer?

 

Sorry for all the questions. I'm just trying to understand at what point should I try to increase a little more now that I've resigned to that being the best option since almost 3 months after 100% off the med I'm still having issues. I have no idea about any of this since I didn't expect going off to send me reeling into hell.

[starlitegirlx]

Hi, starlitegirlx: we're so glad you're here. You will absolutely find informed and compassionate help here. Alto knows her stuff and will not steer you wrong.

 

I also just wanted to commend you for your determined and rational way of going about your withdrawal. We know how hard it has been and probably will be for a while. All of us have our horror stories. We've all found traditional medicine of NO help whatsoever. They are all very willing to point the finger at you and indicate the drugs are the only way. Please don't listen to them!! How can they make a judgement about what we 're going through if they know absolutlely NOTHING about how these drugs work and even less what they do to our brains.

 

The scenario sounds like The Manchurian Candidate where all the soldiers are pumped up with mind altering drugs to do the big shots bidding. Maybe in our case like in the movie the ultimate victims will be the perpetrators of the crime!! In this case, hopefully the psychiatrists will finally be exposed for the pseudo doctors they REALLY are!!

 

HANG IN THERE!!!

 

You have no idea how grateful I am to have found this forum. I was just trying to get through being off the med and trying not to think of how my life might always be at this new low level of functioning. While I wish nobody else had to go through this, and believe me, I truly do, there is comfort in not being alone, but if being alone in it meant nobody would have to suffer like this, I'd do it willingly. It's would be worth the price.

[Altostrata]

starlitegirl, we're with you. When you recover, pay it forward -- help others.

 

Since you had that adverse reaction to imipramine before you started tapering, I would, as you're doing, go back on the lowest effective dose to avoid setting off that reaction, if possible.

 

It could very well be that your nervous system has accommodated somewhat and will accept 3mg or 5mg as a replacement dosage.

 

If it's going to help, some slight improvement very soon is a good sign. It will take a few days for the medication to get to steady state in your system. Some people find it takes weeks for the reinstatement to have more of an effect on withdrawal syndrome.

 

Please use a liquid so you can dose precisely. As you saw, the tablets are hard to cut up.

[Skyler]

I'll see how things go at 3mg. How long do you think it will take for me to see if there's an improvement? A few weeks or would it be longer?

 

Sorry for all the questions. I'm just trying to understand at what point should I try to increase a little more now that I've resigned to that being the best option since almost 3 months after 100% off the med I'm still having issues. I have no idea about any of this since I didn't expect going off to send me reeling into hell.

 

Hi SL and welcome. This group was exceedingly helpful to me when my withdrawal symptoms varied on a daily, sometimes seemingly hourly basis.. often advising me to hold (LOL.. which, to my regret, I did not always follow). As much as possible, relax, you can post concerns about changes, progress or a lack thereof whenever you want. You don't need to understand every wrinkle up front as the footprint of these drugs and what it takes to spring free will become ever more clear.

 

PS.. welcome from Seekonk, MA

[Shanti]

Hi Starlight. I just responded to your post in the Finding Meaning area and wanted to come check on you here. I'm very glad you're here too. I know how rough it is, but have hope. I have read so many success stories about people recovering, even it may take some time. But they do recover. I'm glad you here to share your insight into the spiritual (or metaphysical) side of things as well.

[starlitegirlx]

Thanks!

 

I'm scared about going back on the 3mg. The whole what if it doesn't make a difference even after weeks or a month, now I've got it back in my system again and WTH?! It served no purpose taking it again, like I might be best of to just stay off it completely. I feel like even here we're shooting in the dark at targets hoping we hit something. Not much different than the doctors only with more compassion as a group and with some people who have gone through it, but everyone is different. Then I swing toward 'who cares? None of it matters. It's just a crappy life anyway and this is one more thing to deal with that is more drama when I prefer no drama.' Actually no drama is what I need to stay at my healthiest.

 

I'll just have to take it and see. Maybe it's better to give it a chance than not. Who knows? The only thing I know is I hate all these pill pushing toolish doctors and the big pharma that knows things are dangerous yet pimps them on TV like candy for the perfect existence. My life has never been anything even remotely close to what I wanted thanks to the depression. I finally learn to accept that is how it is with no logic to it and no fairness about it and whack! Another thing to make it feel even worse than it was before. Ah well, that's the price of being 'alive'.

[Nikki]

Hi Starlightgirl...

 

Just follow Alto's advise and you should be feeling better. A 10% reduction was too much for me, and you said you did more than 10%, maybe it was alot.

 

Going back on is not going backwards, it's finding a dose that can help us function , so It's a good thing.

 

I have taken Imipramine, got off of it and onto Celexa and now I am back on Imipramine while lowering the Celexa.

 

I greatly admire people who can get off meds. You sound like a strong person.

 

[Nadia]

Hi Starlightgirl,

 

I totally empathize with what you're saying...

 

I quit cold-turkey after 16 years of AD use this last time (had tried before, with some short tapers) and didn't start having the worst of withdrawal symptoms (or readaptation of my brain to not being on drugs, or whatever it is) until 3 months out. Then, I got MUCH worse at 8 months after I took another medicine, which somehow acted as a stressor. I still don't know if a gradual taper would have helped me or not, but for me it was too late to try, since I was 8 months off when I found this site. I tried one day and felt worse and got too scared to try again, since most people on here agreed that that many months later the chances of it helping were slim.

 

Prior to this time, I had quit in 2008, and that time I did do a taper, but not a very gradual or slow one. I had the same issues as now, also at the 3 month mark of being off. I freaked out and reinstated that time, using clonazepam to help going back on (Zoloft and Wellbutrin), and not very gradually (I think I started with a half dose for a few days only). I felt immediately better in terms of mood/DP/DR and then the anxiety got better in about a month and I discontinued the clonazepam. Stayed on the ADs for two more years, during which I was pretty stable.

 

All this is to say it's hard to know what will help, BUT I do greatly regret not having tapered extremely slowly and gradually to let my brain slide off of the drugs this last time. I assumed because I felt OK the first few days of being off, that I would be fine. (How it happened is I noticed I'd forgotten to take my meds for 3 days on vacation, so I just decided to stay off since I felt fine, since normally I could always tell if I had missed a dose.)

 

I know taking the drugs again seems like a poison, and really is a crap shoot whether it will help or not, but sometimes the repercussions of tapering or not is something that you might not feel until months down the road. So maybe it's worth the shot to try to stabilize and taper very, very gradually. It makes sense that, if you ARE able to stabilize, you would benefit from then letting your brain and body adapt very gradually to going off this substance that you have taken for so many years.

 

I hope I'm making sense... not at my best.

[starlitegirlx]

I'll try 3mg for a bit hoping my body will recognize the drug and adapt to the lesser dosage since it's been under 3 months since I took it. I didn't taper fast at all. I followed the recommended amount until I couldn't cut the pill smaller. I did cut a couple of days off the two weeks here and there but I don't think that would have made any difference in the long run.

 

I guess I'll just see how it goes and see how my body adapts with the 3mg. I won't go back to the 100mg under any circumstances. not even 25mg. The most I would do is 10 but even that is iffy. More like 8 or 5mg. I have more faith in my body eventually adapting and healing from this than I do in pumping more of that toxic crap into my body. In fact, I'd put my faith there before any of these dangerous meds now that I know with what I'm dealing.

 

Thanks for sharing your story. It'll help me hold steadfast when I need to most. 3mg isn't a massive compromise, but I figure if it can't even make some difference than a larger amount won't help either. A small dosage that is only a few mg away from when I began noticing some of the worse side effects (and especially now after being off them for nearly 3 months) should be able to help mitigate withdrawal. If not, IMO, it's then venturing into the return to higher dosages which makes the hell I've been through a waste of time with all that suffering. I refuse to make it all for naught. I've got an insane stubborn streak in me. It's built up over time, and I've come to like it.

 

Honestly, I'm not even sure how long I'm willing to give the 3mg a chance to work. I should see something within three weeks I would think. If there are no signs by then, I'll decided what to do at that point. But three weeks with a small amount in my system to see if there's any response seems reasonable to me.

[Nadia]

I have a feeling that unless you do some crazy long taper like 5 years, and maybe even then, after being on a drug for as long as we were on it, there's going to be problems. Especially the more insidious ones that only pop up later, that reveal a destabilized nervous/endocrine/neurotransmitter system.

 

Good to hear about the stubborn streak. I'm pretty stubborn myself. I think it can work in our favor to get us through this.

 

Did you have withdrawal symptoms show up right away? Or were some of they delayed? What are they like now?

[starlitegirlx]

I have a feeling that unless you do some crazy long taper like 5 years, and maybe even then, after being on a drug for as long as we were on it, there's going to be problems. Especially the more insidious ones that only pop up later, that reveal a destabilized nervous/endocrine/neurotransmitter system.

 

Good to hear about the stubborn streak. I'm pretty stubborn myself. I think it can work in our favor to get us through this.

 

Did you have withdrawal symptoms show up right away? Or were some of they delayed? What are they like now?

 

I stopped the 3 mg after two doses because I had the heart palipatations and racing heart issues. That to me is a big no no and one of the primary reasons I needed to go off it.

 

Given that imipramine is not a true ssri but only has an ssri component to it, I'm not going ponder or imagine some insidious withdrawal issues popping up later. I kind of think that should have been preface with 'it could happen but one never knows' because it's a statement that could tip someone over the edge. I've already been suicidal and should I end up going through some new round of horrors years down the line, should my body and brain be that incapable of adjusting during the interim, I'm not going to waste my life suffering. That's one thing I know for certain. It's not like I'm surviving for some life that's worth living. I live on SSDI at 44 living with my mother. I have no life to speak of. I can't even watch a TV show where people have normal lives most of the time - things like love and marriage, nice homes, can hold jobs, etc - because I feel sadness and loss and like I never had those options due to the stress that comes with them triggering depressions.

 

Also, we have to remember that while discontinuation syndrome is very real for us here in this forum, it's not the case for all and it depends on a variety of things including the individual. Heck, I could be dead from some random accident before these things pop up should they ever pop up, but I'm not going to consider them popping up down the line as even a possibility. That's just stuck in future fears. If it happens, I'll deal with it then. But speculating is dangerous especially given I'm already prancing the 'do I live disabled where I can barely function or do I just check out given it's not like I have a reason to continue' threshold.

 

I'm sure you meant well, but that's really not a helpful statement to make to someone who is trying to recover. Saying 'oh BTW, you could feel fine then some years down the line end up worse than you were during your withdrawal' is not helpful.

 

My withdrawal came on almost as soon as I went off the meds as well as periods of it during decreases.

 

Another factor that isn't being considered here is that my body has the ability to heal and adapt. So before this pop out could happen, my body may have adjusted for such things. Also, there's minimal to no data on such things so speculation on what if distant future scenarios really isn't helpful.

 

Basically, I'm not doing some crazy long 5 year taper particularly when there's the heart issues at hand. I'm not even giving the 3mg a try for another day since those heart issues popped up almost immediately.

 

I really don't think a med that only has an SSRI component to it, no matter how long I took it, is going to trigger something years down the line. I had minimal of the most insidious withdrawal symptoms in the emotional range because that. They were there, but they were not the real issue for me (going of the symptom list from that book by doctor G whose name is a blank to me now). I had them, but only during the height of withdrawal and they were short lived. I was on the more physical spectrum with some emotional mixed in during the prime withdrawal cycles. So I will live in the acceptance of what is now and not ponder a discouraging and even terrifying future, which even then could be short lived. It's all pure speculation until it happens. And until I see evidence that people who tapered off imipramine after being on it as long as I have that had these issues pop up, I'm not going to ponder. In fact, you may not be doing yourself any favors by considering such things either.

 

I know you mean well, but that's a heck of a think to tell someone who is trying to get through this. It's like saying to a rape victim that sometimes they get raped again. Sometimes they go through PTSD only to have it return years later and ruin their lives.

 

Edited to add that now dizziness and walking gait being off along with blurry vision and restless leg syndrome and tremors are what I'm experiencing. They cycle so there are days that they are minimal or I start off okay then later in the day they set in if I tried to do more chores or errands in the morning when I was better. But I've also started getting very tired and napping daily about this past week. I take that as a sign of my body calling for a time out to rejuvenate and heal itself. That's always been the case for me. Sleeping and napping heal my body quite a bit.

 

I just don't believe there is going to be some pop out issue years later. I did a gradual taper by the book posted in another thread in part of this forum (the one with the withdrawal symptoms listed) and my med only had an ssri component rather than being a straight out ssri. So I think that mitigates any long term damages as well as my absolute belief that my body has the ability to heal or find a workaround so such pop ups never happen.

 

You're withdrawal was different. It was abrupt and you remained off the meds for months before seeing symptoms of withdrawal. Your circumstances are vastly different from mine. You experienced pop ups because of suddenly stopping your meds without the awareness that this could happen, which is very unfortunate, but again, very different from me. My body had many months to adapt to smaller dosages and only around 10mg did I even experience the symptoms in the book that were not restless legs (that was one of the reasons I went off the med as it has be cited to cause restless legs) and tremors and some crying as far as I remember. At 10mg the cuts became much higher than 10%, which was the issue. So I may have to deal with some fall out from the decreases I made at that point, but I don't expect some sudden blindside years down the line. It could happen, but so could a lot of other things, like my body using that time to heal and adapt. Also, my withdrawal symptoms have gradually decreased since going off the medication, which to me is an excellent sign. It shows my body is healing and adapting. I've also needed much less klonopin (closer to the doses I was taking back during minor withdrawal many months ago long before I hit 10 mg and those symptoms were mainly tremors). Or circumstances, our situations and experiences are vastly different. There is really no way to compare and no reason to suspect I will have pop up withdrawal that is worse years down the line. There is also no logical reason to ponder such things. They do no good.

[starlitegirlx]

Nadia, I wanted to start a new post here to add that in reading your signature it looks like adding a new med into the mix as well as life stressors were the major triggers that set off the withdrawal. Have you considered that those things were not withdrawal but a true response stressors which most people would have felt? You've determined they are withdrawal from what I can tell in your sig. but the death of a father and adding in a med that can have horrible side effects along with other stressors that you mention are most likely the culprits with the withdrawal coming into play. I worked with an excellent clinical psychologist years ago (Dr. Sheri Johnson - UCLA based now I believe) on a long term in depth study of bipolar people and life stressors as triggers of episodes. There was an absolute correlation. Back in '94 when the study was done, this was ground breaking stuff. Now, even now, it's not always considered and kind of glossed over, yet from my own experience, stress, particularly major stress can have an extremely debilitating effect and often trigger illnesses (that happened to me). In your case, it could have provoked withdrawal symptoms because your body, mind and psyche were not equipped or healed enough to handle them. I suspect even on meds you would have experienced some dramatic effects. But off the meds and having gone through withdrawal episodes the mind goes right to that. But relapse due to death of a loved one or some other life stress is really just basic decompensation due to an illness you already had being triggered by external events (meds, stresses, etc). So on the bright side, it may not all be due to withdrawal. It just mirrors it or brings it out to some degree. Hard to tell. We're really just shooting at targets in the dark here since there's no research or data or anything other any people experiences (all of which are totally varied) to guide us.

[Altostrata]

starlitegirl, you did the right thing to give up on 3mg imipramine. Very sorry you had that bad reaction again.

 

It's true, we cannot tell the future. Everyone's different, hurray. In neuroplasticity we trust!

 

Are you taking fish oil, etc.? A lot of people find this helpful.

[starlitegirlx]

starlitegirl, you did the right thing to give up on 3mg imipramine. Very sorry you had that bad reaction again.

 

It's true, we cannot tell the future. Everyone's different, hurray. In neuroplasticity we trust!

 

Are you taking fish oil, etc.? A lot of people find this helpful.

 

I was eating a lot of fish before the withdrawal got rough, then my eating got poor. I should probably order some omega 3 capsules, I'm just not sure which ones or company to go with because they all vary. I prefer to get it from salmon. I love salmon. But cooking, even baking salmon for the 15-20 min is a bit of a challenge for me these days. I'll ask my mom if she will. I think I had some left.

 

On the bright side, my eating has begun to improve, which I think is a good sign. I am craving veggies and fruit and nuts and healthy protein whereas I was just 'grab whatever is easy' before and with a lot of sugar cravings and zero desire to eat well. now I'm craving eating well which I was doing mostly before the withdrawal got bad. Also, naps and tiredness. Right now I want and need a nap. I always take that as a sign my body is doing some recovery and healing action. Even when it's only an hour (which is around where it's been), I think it's like my body and brain (because it's a kind of brain tiredness) saying 'let's shut down for some healing and rejuvenation'.

[Altostrata]

See the fish oil topic. I like Natural Factors from Canada, they have very strict quality control.

[starlitegirlx]

The amount of klonopin I use to deal with the withdrawal is a lot less than when I first went off the imprimaine after the taper, and symptoms have improved gradually, very gradually, only I'm starting to wonder what the point of all of it is. I just feel so utterly pointless in my existence. I have for a while. My way to get through the day is TV, reading, video games. That's the pointless existence of my life. I used to go to the gym but a stress triggered illness some years back stole that pleasure from me and I've never gotten into it since. Not like I was then. And it was really a healthy outlet.

 

Do you ever ask yourself why even bother? Why even care? Why even try? Then hope death comes quickly. I look around at the lives I see other people having and they're actually living them and experiencing them. I can only remember experiencing my life some years ago. This whole depression thing tore through my life and took experiences from me. I learned to live smaller with buddhist practices and acceptance of life as is but then something else (an autoimmune disease, very painful at the time brought on by stress) tore through my life and made it even smaller. Now it's withdrawal and it's about as small as it's been since I've lived on this planet. Yes, I hope it will pass and that I will be able to return to things I enjoy that I haven't been able to do in ages. Of course, hope feels like the carrot on a stick waved in front of the horse at the track to keep them going in cicles and never getting a taste of the actual carrot. Like a mirage in the desert.

 

I'm so bored with life. Thank God for TV shows I love (even and especially reruns that I can return to every few years), and for a few video games I have that I haven't lost love for entirely. But that's like repeating the same day over and over, like the movie groundhog day, only there's no changes or improvements in any way to who I am or how I use those days because of limitations.

 

Had I have never been born, I'd have missed nothing. That's how I feel. And I wish it were the case, but it's not so I have to go through this stupid withdrawal that isn't even something I intentionally did. None of us did. It was inflicted upon us with lies and greed. Not so much for me given I was not taking an SSRI due to total incompatibility with my system. It was like I experienced the withdrawal type symptoms upon taking it and therefore couldn't take it. Thank god for small favors.

 

I'm so tired. Really, really tired. exhausted with life. Exhausted with having to continually accept the unacceptable. And it really is unacceptable. It really, really is. And there has been too much of it along the way. Too many unacceptables that I've accepted and come to peace with over the years. It feels more like war than life.

 

Sorry for the long post, but I'm really tired of keeping that inside me. I just want out of this whole thing but I don't have the ability to act on suicide, like something keeps me from it, some awareness or something like that - that I have to keep going no matter how tired I am, no matter how pointless it seems. I don't even know why or where it comes from. It's not like a strength. It's more like I just know I can't stop until it's time for my life to come to whatever end is in store for me. But I just don't even care or try anymore. Life smacked that right out of me long ago.

 

I really could have done without the withdrawal taking away what little I feel I had left.

[Sparrow]

Starlite, everything in your last post really resonates with me. I have no answers, but just wanted to say I'm right there with ya.

 

Hugs.

Sparrow

[starlitegirlx]

Did two short stops at the store this morning. Morning is the best time to go, before dizziness and blurry vision and even exhaustion get going because just a few short walks down the hall can do that. I think I was gone less than 40 minutes. The stores were short walks. Incredibly short. Maybe 100 yards each? By the time I got home I was exhausted. I feel like I need to sleep for a few hours now after just that. 3 months of this type of stuff and I really just wonder about life. Is it even worth it for me to push forward? This could be the new norm. Yes, there are a few days here and there that I can do a bit more. So I'm clinging to that, but days like these, in their acceptance that it's a bad day, I feel like I'm giving up some of myself. Like I'm moving in a direction even further away from what I was willing and able to handle before, and like every time I do that, I open the some door in the universe for more crap like this to come through. Seems to fit the pattern of my life thus far. So I guess it's like a spiritual crisis.

 

Totally exhausted, so nap time. Maybe that will help.

 

I can't go back on the med even at a lower dose. Everything is blurry. Life, this web page, what I write. How do people get through this? How do they survive the deterioration of their mind, body, and spirit? Guess I'll find out.

[Nikki]

Starlitgirlx....

 

I am so sorry you are so down. Been having a bit of a down day myself.

do you try journaling to get rid of some of the feelings you have? It helps me alot.

 

Does the Klonopin help you at all?

 

Today my daughter told me she didn't take her Imipramine for 3 days and was ready to keel over. She is feeling terribly ill along with other WD symptoms. She took her dosage a while ago and she still doesn't feel well.

 

She told me she wants to stop taking it. After all I have been thru with meds, this kid should have known better about CT. I told her she needs to do a slow taper.

 

I am sharing this with you so you can not feel so alone.

 

I think short walks may help you to sleep better at night, and for me when I was feeling anxious or depressed a hop into the shower would help.

 

Hang in there:)

[starlitegirlx]

Starlitgirlx....

 

I am so sorry you are so down. Been having a bit of a down day myself.

do you try journaling to get rid of some of the feelings you have? It helps me alot.

 

Does the Klonopin help you at all?

 

Today my daughter told me she didn't take her Imipramine for 3 days and was ready to keel over. She is feeling terribly ill along with other WD symptoms. She took her dosage a while ago and she still doesn't feel well.

 

She told me she wants to stop taking it. After all I have been thru with meds, this kid should have known better about CT. I told her she needs to do a slow taper.

 

I am sharing this with you so you can not feel so alone.

 

I think short walks may help you to sleep better at night, and for me when I was feeling anxious or depressed a hop into the shower would help.

 

Hang in there:)

 

I think those two doses of 3mg of imipramine after being off it for so long messed me up. i knew I should have just stayed off it completely. Hopefully the set back is short lived since it was only two days. It did make me realize how I have to just ignore other people's take on my situation because they are not me. I was feeling closer to getting well before I put that crap back in my body, but I took the advice offered here and now I'm a bit set back for it. I'll just write it off as something I know for sure now, that putting that back in my body would just delay the whole process and make it worse.

 

I don't get anxious or depressed about this, at least not really. If I'm depressed about anything it's a long life of tiresome BS. Going round and round for what? More crap to be dealt to me? More suffering in some other form? And no reason to bother?

 

I can't do the walks, not yet. I'm working my way toward stability when walking and standing with minimal dizziness but what seems to have happened at this point for the past few months is that I've lost ability to stand for long or walk. Showering and shampooing my long hair has been a nightmare at best. I just don't feel there's a reason to bother anymore. I felt that way before the withdrawal. Now, in the aftermath of it, I see that my life experience is summed up by suffering the losses that come with depression and the wasted life that means nothing to me. It's not depression. Not even a little. Sounds like it, but anyone with a lick of sense in my position would question the whole thing. I don't know why I just don't off myself. This is no way to life. Basically bedbound playing video games, watching TV, napping when I'm tired, to what end? To leave here and maybe go to some other realm of existence and look back and see things differently? I'm 44. It's been a totally wasted life. Looking toward the future, I see more of that since I don't see how things could really change other than more crap to endure. That's not depression. It's reality and acceptance of my life situation which I've often denied with deluded hopes. I give up. Not in a suicide way, but in a 'this is a waste of my time because there's nothing more to learn unless my life changes for the best mighty soon.' I've got the suffering and loss part down well enough. So much that I' just sigh when new stuff comes up and take it in the chin. But there has to be balance. There has to be something worth what I'm going through to make it anything but a pure our sadistic experience that I'm sick to death of at this point. But there isn't. There never has been. Not one thing that tether's me to this life.

 

Sounds suicidal or very depressed, but it's the hard, cold reality I live with daily. I ignore it with sleep, video games, reading when I can if something interests me and vision not too blurry, and TV. Through the worst, video games helped. Now that it's better, TV distracts enough and keeps my mind off all this stuff. But living in my bedroom most of my life has come to feel like a prison sentence. Having little beyond to enjoy or keep me tethered to this place has just made it easier to accept there's no point in fighting or pushing or bothering. I think I have the upper hand in that way though it didn't seem so at first. I see now that it's given me a very clear perspective on the stupidity of this whole existence. Some have better experiences than others. don't know the reason why, and and in the thick of it here, the reason why would probably just irk me out of my mind. In my case, this life has been wasted on suffering and emptiness with no reason to bother. Don't care what that means or teaches me in a place that may exist when I die. Right now, I just feel something worth it all would have made it worth the whole hell of it. But there's nothing. Eh, whatever. 44 puts me closer to death. Thankful for small favors.

[areyouthere]

 

There has to be something worth what I'm going through to make it anything but a pure our sadistic experience that I'm sick to death of at this point. But there isn't. There never has been. Not one thing that tether's me to this life.

There is if you really want it. It's called Starlight's Story after living through hell a.k.a. your future healthy life however it manifests itself.

 

Right now, I just feel something worth it all would have made it worth the whole hell of it. But there's nothing.

There's you and you're worth it.

 

And just a reminder.... this was written by you just 5 days ago:

 

On the bright side, my eating has begun to improve, which I think is a good sign. I am craving veggies and fruit and nuts and healthy protein whereas I was just 'grab whatever is easy' before and with a lot of sugar cravings and zero desire to eat well. now I'm craving eating well which I was doing mostly before the withdrawal got bad. Also, naps and tiredness. Right now I want and need a nap. I always take that as a sign my body is doing some recovery and healing action. Even when it's only an hour (which is around where it's been), I think it's like my body and brain (because it's a kind of brain tiredness) saying 'let's shut down for some healing and rejuvenation'.

 

This is part of your transformation, your "story" of living through hell. Can you see it?

[starlitegirlx]

 

 

There has to be something worth what I'm going through to make it anything but a pure our sadistic experience that I'm sick to death of at this point. But there isn't. There never has been. Not one thing that tether's me to this life.

There is if you really want it. It's called Starlight's Story after living through hell a.k.a. your future healthy life however it manifests itself.

 

Right now, I just feel something worth it all would have made it worth the whole hell of it. But there's nothing.

There's you and you're worth it.

 

And just a reminder.... this was written by you just 5 days ago:

 

On the bright side, my eating has begun to improve, which I think is a good sign. I am craving veggies and fruit and nuts and healthy protein whereas I was just 'grab whatever is easy' before and with a lot of sugar cravings and zero desire to eat well. now I'm craving eating well which I was doing mostly before the withdrawal got bad. Also, naps and tiredness. Right now I want and need a nap. I always take that as a sign my body is doing some recovery and healing action. Even when it's only an hour (which is around where it's been), I think it's like my body and brain (because it's a kind of brain tiredness) saying 'let's shut down for some healing and rejuvenation'.

 

This is part of your transformation, your "story" of living through hell. Can you see it?

 

Right now, no I can't. I have lived through enough hells to know I didn't need another one. Sorry, I know you're trying, but when you've lived through stuff I have, pretty grim stuff, pretty sucky stuff, and get getting back up and dusting yourself off, and keep doing your best and finding ways to make you life more enjoyable because who wants a sucky experience, right? And all those ways never work no matter how much or hard you try, and the storms keep coming, well, now, I'm past your concepts. I'm so far past them that I've got more than enough of my 'story' as you put it. I didn't need any more transformations. I've lived though more than my share. I'm just pissed now. And I'm really pissed that at myself for taking the advice to try going back on the med at the smallest dosage because I'm reeling from the effects of just two doses of it. It SET ME BACK~ so now, I have to waste what? Another month of my life because of a bad suggestion that I was stupid enough to heed. Well, live and learn I suppose. Now, I go it my way.

 

I don't think playing doctor is wise to do in this forum. I think it's giving people advice that may be more harmful than you know. I'm set back now from two days. Like giving heroin to a junkie. Worst idea ever. I was almost three months out and improving. Why was I stupid enough to waste my time on what I felt was a bad idea, a horrible idea? Because I trusted in someone besides me. I know the best was meant in the intentions, but telling someone to go back on a drug when they aren't having horrific effects and managing to get through the withdrawal was really illogical. But I figured you've (people here) have been through it and know something I don't. Turns out in this case, not so much. Also turns out that having someone tell you that months or years down the line when you think you're doing better it could turn hard to port and you've back in the war again is another bad and DANGEROUS thing to do.

 

I think going it alone was the best I could have done and the best I can continue to do. Platitudes, religious advice, telling me it will make me stronger and give me my 'story' along with disseminating some medical advice that does more harm than good serves me in no way. Does me no good. And actually causes me to go backwards. I'll live through this. I live though all the crap the universe throws at me. But I'm done listening to other people and their take. I'm done listening period. I'm done sharing. I'm even done with people. Bye!

[Altostrata]

I am sorry reinstating didn't work out for you, starlite. Sometimes it doesn't, and it will take your nervous system time to settle down.

 

Please come back from time to time and let us know how you're doing. You can see from the posts in your topic people do care about you.

[starlitegirlx]

I am sorry reinstating didn't work out for you, starlite. Sometimes it doesn't, and it will take your nervous system time to settle down.

 

Please come back from time to time and let us know how you're doing. You can see from the posts in your topic people do care about you.

 

I hope it doesn't take much time. It's been a week reinstated for only two days and I'm back to where I was a month or almost 5 weeks ago. One hell of a back slide and it's shortened my better days to almost nil. I just take my klonopin and ignore it as much as possible while basically living in my bed. Reinstating was a bad idea. I knew it was.

 

I know some people here care about me - as much as anyone can care about a random person on the internet that you've known only a few weeks from some posts. I appreciate that. I really do. I'm just wondering if I'm best off just not even coming here because it gives it my attention and makes it more of a focus. Right now, I've moved this whole experience from this big bad thing that has taken over my life and reduced me to nearly invalid status to just a period of adjustment where my body has to heal from the meds without paying it any attention beyond taking klonopin when the symptoms get worse or when I wake up in the morning.

 

I'll get through it. I always get through it. Whatever IT is. But I've learned that getting through it can often be best done when it doesn't have much of your attention. That just gives it power and feeds it more energy. I did that for the first few months, give it my attention and stay so focused on it, and it made it and me worse. It made my suffering worse. Best to just accept it and move on. Go through the process one day at a time until one day you realize it's gone or nearly gone. That's really the best way to go for any trauma or problems in life. I've had more than enough time to learn that valuable lesson which will serve me well now.

 

Thanks for your help and concern. I may pop back from time to time. I wish everyone here a full and speedy recovery. Be well and get well soon.

[areyouthere]

Starlight girl,

 

How are things going?

[starlitegirlx]

Starlight girl,

 

How are things going?

 

Had a trash the room day yesterday, screaming, smashing stuff. I just went nuts. My mom knew I was having a bad day. I told her to steer clear and she had to come and push some buttons. I told her I needed to be left alone. I could feel insane rage coming on and she just stood in the doorway saying how she was suffering watching me suffering and understood what I was going through. I lost it and told her that she couldn't have even the slightest clue and that if she ever said something like that to me ever again I wouldn't be able to control myself. And so she said it and I lost it. Smashed a gorgeous tiffany lamp I had to bits by slamming in on the floor over and over again. I literally went into a crazy rage that I could not stop. This has happened a few times already during this withdrawal. Then some tool neighbor called (who never even says hi or anything like that) to make sure everything was okay over here and my mother tells me HE said I need to see someone. Like who the hell is this dirtbag? We here all know that there's zero point in seeing anyone. Plus I had to postphone my idiot shrink appt. for another two months because I can't drive that distance and I don't think I'm up for waiting then having to tell him that from now on his only job as far as I'm concerned is to make sure I stay on SSDI and make sure I have the klonopin I need to get through this hell whether or not he's concerned with addiction given he wasn't concerned with addiction to the imipramine and probably still hands out SSRIs like pez candies.

 

Otherwise, it's just one day at a time. Distracting myself by not thinking about any of it. Playing video games and watching TV mostly. Sleeping when I'm tired if my body lets me sleep. Sometimes I get so tired during the day but my body refuses to sleep. It's insane. So I just lay there and eventually I do get an hour or two nap. I figure my body needs it if I'm that tired and I trust that it's part of my body recovering.

 

I need to take fish oil supplements, but the canada ones recommended didn't look so great to me. I'm going to see if I can find some other ones.

 

Suffice to say that there are good days, mediocre days, and bad days. I try not to let any of them color my view of my eventual recovery though on the bad days they do. My mother seems to have moved past the concern about my leg vibrations and onto the blurred vision issue perhaps because that is more limiting than just the discomfort that comes with vibrating legs.

 

I still wish all shrinks had to go through this. I wish they knew the hell of it. I wish they knew the fear that on top of whatever issue you had to begin with now you are terrified that this is how your life is going to be because of drugs you took TRUSTING they knew what they were giving you. Death to psychiatry would be a great start.

[jr1985]

Sorry you're having a hard time starlitegirl.

 

I can understand the bursts of rage. I had them when I switched from Effexor to mirtazapine. I flew into a rage when my mum accidentally turned the light off in the bathroom while I was in it. I stormed out of the house,etc. I was also driving like a maniac.

[starlitegirlx]

Sorry you're having a hard time starlitegirl.

 

I can understand the bursts of rage. I had them when I switched from Effexor to mirtazapine. I flew into a rage when my mum accidentally turned the light off in the bathroom while I was in it. I stormed out of the house,etc. I was also driving like a maniac.

 

I hate getting like that. It's like I have no control. The rage just takes over and I have to let it out. Not against a person but there's no control so I destroy things. Throw things. It's not by choice but because I have no way to calm down. It comes on so fast and take over like a storm. Aside from a phone conversation with my brother, I hadn't had one in a bit I think... weeks. But mom is brilliant at pushing my buttons. I warn her when I know I'm edgy, but it's like she wants to see that happen. Something is very wrong with her. I've actually contemplated suicide just to escape the button pushing she does. Like what kind of brain damage do you have to have to even go near a person you've seen smash things in a total withdrawal induced rage when they warn you to stay away because they feel and know that's the kind of day they could have? And who the hell wants to live like this? I'm stuck with her for the rest of my life until she dies, I die, or she ends up in a nursing home. A button pushing idiot who now has gotten things to the point where the neighbor calls. Next, it'll be the cops probably. If that EVER happens, I already know my out. There's no return from that kind of crap, but it's her fault when I tell her not to come near me because I know she's a button pusher. She did it with everyone in our family. I don't know why other that there is something very messed up with her. Now me, if someone were like me and said that, I think I'd just avoid them. Heck, if I knew they were prone to those days, I'd avoid them anyway.

 

I hate to say it, but I just don't see this ending well. I don't see any way I come out of this alive and back to decent health because she's still in the mix and yesterday made me realize that as long as she's in the mix there's going to be something to contend with because that's who she is.