starlitegirlx: slowly tapered off Imipramine

[Barbarannamated]

Starlitegirl,

 

I have to clarify that I wrote

 

"Stuck between not wanting to live and NOT wanting to die." I hope that also makes sense.

 

While I have all of the negative feelings of meaninglessness, "why bother?", nothing good or interesting to offset the bad, there is also a little voice saying "WHAT IF there's hope that i can't see from the current darkness?" "How much of this hopelessness and inability to see a future is drug-related and will improve?"

 

The mornings you are having are likely cortisol-related. I was able to deal with the anxiety and panic of cortisol rebound in earlier withdrawal. That has morphed to mornings of pure dread that last for hours. "Another empty day" It's paralyzing whereas the morning anxiety was oddly motivating. I HAD to get moving and outside even though I had nowhere to be. I lost structure and routine to life when I was put on disability several years ago and despite many attempts, I've never reestablished it. The absence of structure has made this much harder although I realize it is difficult for many people to work through this also.

 

I hadn't thought of this before your message, but perhaps the boredom and inability for the same things to distract us are a sign of improvement, the brain needing more stimulation than a few months ago..? Just a thought.

[starlitegirlx]

starlite, I've been there, hang in.

 

The way our minds work, we tend to think what is will always be. But you know your symptoms have changed.

 

Can you get out enough to take a walk?

 

I can't even walk down the hall today without intense pain. Like severe flu times a thousand. I could barely move. Everything hurts so extremely. Moving at all takes more energy than I have. When I don't have the pain or tremors or electricity I have the blurry vision and dizziness and that taxes me very quickly when I walk. It's like my focus gets worse as does my balance. Wondering if there's permanent damage. Worst part is that because I can't really do things for myself (or only do a few things) I'm wondering what could happen down the line. Trying not to think about it but when I'm in a cycle like this, it's hard not to. I'm so angry. Exhausted and angry because I feel like a bullseye is painted on me.

[starlitegirlx]

Starlitegirl,

 

I have to clarify that I wrote

 

"Stuck between not wanting to live and NOT wanting to die." I hope that also makes sense.

 

While I have all of the negative feelings of meaninglessness, "why bother?", nothing good or interesting to offset the bad, there is also a little voice saying "WHAT IF there's hope that i can't see from the current darkness?" "How much of this hopelessness and inability to see a future is drug-related and will improve?"

 

The mornings you are having are likely cortisol-related. I was able to deal with the anxiety and panic of cortisol rebound in earlier withdrawal. That has morphed to mornings of pure dread that last for hours. "Another empty day" It's paralyzing whereas the morning anxiety was oddly motivating. I HAD to get moving and outside even though I had nowhere to be. I lost structure and routine to life when I was put on disability several years ago and despite many attempts, I've never reestablished it. The absence of structure has made this much harder although I realize it is difficult for many people to work through this also.

 

I hadn't thought of this before your message, but perhaps the boredom and inability for the same things to distract us are a sign of improvement, the brain needing more stimulation than a few months ago..? Just a thought.

 

So would the cortisol (lack of or too much?) cause me to feel this horrid? I also noticed that it's that time of the month for me and think hormones are messing with things too.

 

I don't have any anxiety or those type symptoms related to SSRIs. I have the physical ones related to tricyclics (flu, electrical current, vibrations, tremors, pain, vision stuff, dizziness) but no anxiety that I've noted at all. Mood stuff is crying and despair and suicidal and rage sometimes. So I don't know if cortisol is related to this. Maybe. I don't know.

 

I don't think it's my brain craving more stimulation or challenge. I prefer things that require less challenge because more is harder and worse for me because I love to use my brain but I can't focus enough to think things through or it's too taxing or confusing.

 

I wish I just kept taking the drug and let it ruin me to some extreme. I don't see how going off it has helped me at all. I think that doc was right about some people not going off it is better. I had the leg vibrations before which was the trigger to get off it but I also had palipations and fast heart rate that would once in a while race. But now I still have the leg vibrations and the heart stuff didn't bother me. I figured it it was damage it would just kill me quick with a heart attack which beats where I am now. Maybe I should have just kept taking them. I don't even know anymore. Seems like my body/brain chemistry changed quite a lot during my 16 years of taking the AD. can it recover from that enough to I can live a normal life again?

[Barbarannamated]

Cortisol is a powerful hormone. I believe it can have many effects including the dread/doom. Also, reproductive hormones are in a feedback loop with the adrenals/cortisol, so it's not surprising that your symptoms flared during your cycle.

[Altostrata]

Yes, your bad wave could definitely be related to your cycle.

 

Have you tried Epsom salt baths? The magnesium can be absorbed through your skin. This can be relaxing and relieve pain.

 

There's little difference between SSRI and tricyclic withdrawal symptoms. The key is autonomic dysregulation.

[dalsaan]

HI Starlight,

 

I've had a bad withdrawal experience coincide with my cycle so this could be making it more difficult as others have pointed out

 

I'm sorry the helplines didn't help. I was hoping they would be more useful for you. Please keep engaged with us so

that we can continue to try and offer solutions and support to you. The epsom salts bath is gentle and worth trying.

 

I'm thinking of you and hoping things turn around soon

 

Dalsaan

[starlitegirlx]

I took a 3 hour nap. That helped a little but woke up crying.

 

I can't take a bath because I can't get in and out of the tub. Plus, I'm 5'9 so it makes it hard to sit in it comfortably. I'm too tall for the tub.

 

I think it definitely is hormone overload but it just was really worse this time. Other cycles have had a few bad days but this seemed really extreme for me. Plus, I think my cycles have become irregular in that they aren't every month anymore. Maybe 5 or 6 weeks or that's how it feels. I used to write when I had them but haven't done so in ages. I did it this time just to see. I think the change is a mix of peri menopausal and withdrawal. I'm hoping it passes.

 

So right now, after a 3 hour nap, I feel better and took the few pills I take for the night (tegretol 300mg and 1 mg klonopin) and will either go to sleep or wait for the tremors I woke up with to subside and play a video game for a bit till I'm tired enough to sleep.

 

Thank you very much to everyone who posted. I appreciate it greatly and you helped me just by being there and understanding. My mom, best friend and brother try, but they just don't get it. And my mother always does that one up comparison to something she has or had that is nothing even close to what I'm dealing with which make me want to strangle her - not really but that rage at how little she really comprehends what it's like for me but she's always been like that. She could compare the most minor complaint to something that is practically crippling me. And I live with her. So I have to avoid her and talking to her because it's so rage inducing to hear these comparisons that she actually thinks run close to what I contend with. Hell, she's 77 and I'm 44. At 44 she had two kids, a beautiful home, maybe not a perfect life but many more options than I have. And she wasn't going through this.

 

Oh well, I'll just keep surviving and maybe oneday it will get better and heal for good.

[dalsaan]

Hi starlight

 

Thanks for the update Try and take all the sleep you can. I do think it helps the body to heal

 

Hugs to you

 

Dalsaan

[starlitegirlx]

I slept a lot today. Maybe twelve hours. Don't feel like getting up because I have no reason to do so. Suicidal stuff seems to have calmed down so it was probably really bad due to hormones. But now, I see that healing from this is not very likely. Five months since I went off completely and I am still having tremors and vibrations in my legs and sometimes in my body. Vision blurriness comes and goes at varying degrees. And I'm too tired to care anymore. If this is the rest of my life then I don't want it.

[Altostrata]

starlite, please calm yourself. You will recover, but it will take time. At 5 months, you are only at the beginning of your healing journey.

 

It will get better, hang in there. Many of us have been where you are.

 

Good for you, sleeping is healing.

[Barbarannamated]

Hi Starlitegirl. I hope you're doing a bit better. Wanted to let you know I'm thinking about you.

 

B

[starlitegirlx]

I just thought I'd check in and say hello. I went to the doc the other day and he was actually very understanding while baffled at my symptoms. He said this is rare, like 1% of people deal with what we are dealing with, which I do tend to believe given the amount of people on it and that there is so little info about it out there. When he said 1% I said, "of course I'd be in that group..."

 

He actually compared my withdrawal to what people who have been on high doses of antipsychotics for years go through. Tarkydiskanisia? can't spell it and too lazy to look it up right now. But basically, he said it takes a year or a few years for those people to get better and most of them do. My symptoms are different - typical AD withdrawal stuff. It was weird when he explained this to me. I was sad but a tiny bit hopeful it could eventually improve while I was also realizing that this is so completely insane. All of it. I just accepted it right there - long haul. Hellish at times. maybe never gets fully better or maybe stays at some level of suffering I'll have to adapt to. i felt more hopeful when I left because he really tried to focus on the fact that people get better and it stops, but now, I don't want to do that because it then has me focused on some future goal of being well and as the months pass if I am not improving as much as I want, I'll just end up being worse off for it.

 

At least the worst of the emotional stuff calmed for now. Must have been hormonal. I think back to some months ago when I was dealing with all the neuroemotions and how horrible I was to my brother (screaming at him on the phone) and then my mother, even if it wasn't something I created or imagined. My brother though was pure paranoia and fear and rage and abandonment. At least that is resolved. I have to say that after a month of no contact with him after i was a raging maniac on the phone from the withdrawal, he surprised me by saying he understood and that he will always understand because he knows it's hard for me, especially now. It was like it never even happened. I can honestly say that how much I adored him all my life (until the withdrawal made me crazy, paranoid and a raging maniac toward him) made perfect senese. He may not be around (lives in another state) or keep in contact much, but we've always been close in our own way, and for him to be so understanding and just able to let it go completely (which I didn't think he would, I expected him to just never talk to me again because I was that horrible, screaming at him and out of control with all this neuro stuff), but he understood and didn't even need to forgive me. It was just a given. As horrible as I was to him, as paranoid as I had been about him during the withdrawal heavy emotional cycle, he was just able to still love me and realize what this withdrawal has done to me. I haven't felt that way since my father was alive. He was totally unconditional in his love. And I adored him beyond words. So fi there's anything good to come out of this, at least it was that. Knowing that my brother gets it and can forgive me and understand and see when I am clearly not myself because I've never been like how crazy I was toward him in the four decades we've known each other. I guess sometimes you find a flicker of light in total darkness. That was it for me.

 

Well, that's all I have for now. I'm still dealing with the withdrawal. Tremors upon waking up are bad, but some things are improving. It just fluctuates around so much it's hard to track forward motion.

 

I hope everyone here is healing well from this hell we've been dealt. I hope we all get well soon.

[Altostrata]

Withdrawal syndrome is sort of, but not really, like tardive dyskinesia.

 

They're both iatrogenic. TD is much more serious.

[starlitegirlx]

Withdrawal syndrome is sort of, but not really, like tardive dyskinesia.

 

They're both iatrogenic. TD is much more serious.

 

The doctor said that it was serious, but that it was the only thing he could think of that what I'm going through is like given my specific symptoms and how they are pretty severe at times and especially how they were when the severe withdrawal started. But hopefully since TD is more serious and people do recover from it that means that when he said he believes I'll recover, it was true rather than him not wanting me to become suicidal and saying something to give me false hope so I would not consider it.

 

Thanks for the information.

[Barbarannamated]

Hey Starlitegirl.

 

Good update! It sounds like your doc is attempting to understand and not dismissing you or up-diagnosing and pushing more meds.

 

Great to hear about your brother's response, too. Sounds like a very special relationship.

 

Thanks for the hopeful post.

[starlitegirlx]

Hey Starlitegirl.

 

Good update! It sounds like your doc is attempting to understand and not dismissing you or up-diagnosing and pushing more meds.

 

Great to hear about your brother's response, too. Sounds like a very special relationship.

 

Thanks for the hopeful post.

 

My doc really surprised me because I thought he'd be more dismissive based on the phone call I had with him some months earlier. He was very dismissive then.

 

As for my brother, that was beyond surprising to me based on how he had been a selfish self-involved jerk for the last decade or more. The root of what drove me the neuro emotional episode on the phone was real. At its core, the reason was just. But then it got very convoluted with paranoia and all sorts of other neuro emotions. But his response surprised me. I'll give him credit where it's due. I never expected him to be so understanding about it. It seems like people don't even try to understand or care unless it suits them. I was stunned that he was some good about it that it was a non-issue. It really did remind me of my dad and how I always knew no matter what that I was unconditionally loved by him and he would have done probably anything to have made my life the best he could. My brother isn't anywhere near that, but at least I can see some of that in him. Of course, it now reminds me how much I still miss my dad 16 years after he died. He, to me, was the absolute best - showed his love in his actions. Was terrible with words, but I've always put actions before words. Taking the time to do something that shows someone you care is more genuine to me. Anyone can say anything. But to do stuff, like my dad would, to be thoughtful in the ways he was, even small ways that are consistent are the way you know someone does care. They made the effort. Words don't take the effort that actions do. You know what I mean?

[Barbarannamated]

Oh yes. Many people talk the talk. Very few walk the walk.

(Excuse the cliche)

 

It must be good to see your father's qualities showing through in your brother. Nostalgic, though.

 

You sound hopeful, Starlitegirl.

[starlitegirlx]

Oh yes. Many people talk the talk. Very few walk the walk.

(Excuse the cliche)

 

It must be good to see your father's qualities showing through in your brother. Nostalgic, though.

 

You sound hopeful, Starlitegirl.

 

I'm trying to focus on what feels better and the things that are still good in my life, even if they are memories. Maybe the doc giving me a bit of hope that I will recover helped. I think it's just that I've decided that no matter what happens, I know I've tried my best to do right by all the people I've met or known, and I've tried my best to be the best person I could as well as working hard even when the odds were against me. For me, it means that no matter how my life was, in the final moments, I know for certain that nothing changed me for the worst but rather that I chose to let the worst change me for the better at the core of who I am. That might sound corny to some. But it changes everything for me. Clear heart. Clear soul. I may have gotten suicidal or had pity parties. I am human, right? But they were temporary rough times that I made it through. Recently, I've even done what I could to rectify some things I regretted. It changed nothing regarding the situation or the person involved, and I can live with that. I at least, once again, did the best I could. I didn't have to bother. Like with my mother. I didn't have to spend 20 years gradually trying to improve our relationship. I could have been like a lot of people I know and blamed her, been angry, and never seen the improvement I have. But that's not who I am. Withdrawal has just reminded me that the only thing that really matters is who I am in spite of what life has dealt me.

 

Hopeful? Maybe. At peace with myself, most certainly.

[Barbarannamated]

The peace emanates from your message.

[starlitegirlx]

Having a nightmare level day today. Some neuro emotional stuff, overly sad about things that it makes no sense to be so sad about plus tremors and stomach pain and that being electrocuted feeling (mild but discomforting nevertheless). This is the kind of day that drains everything from me. Like life force is being sucked from me as the minutes and hours pass. Here's hoping tomorrow will be better. I'm going to distract myself by playing an online video game. I'm okay at it, but there are times when I see how other players are so skilled and kick ass in it, and I wonder why I even play. But it's a distraction and it has these challenges you can complete. So it's a good thing to keep my mind off life as it is - using relatively meaningless and somewhat silly challenge completions to keep me from going sideways.

 

Off to the game. Maybe my friend will come by later. It was going to be either today or tomorrow. So that'll be another nice distraction if I don't get all neuro sad on her.

[Barbarannamated]

I hope your day got better and you had nice time with your friend.

 

I apologize that I got a chuckle out of your wording of 'getting all neuro sad'

[starlitegirlx]

I hope your day got better and you had nice time with your friend.

 

I apologize that I got a chuckle out of your wording of 'getting all neuro sad'

 

Glad you got the laugh. So rare these days for most of us I think. I used to laugh a lot more than I have ages. Now, I cry a lot.

 

My day got only minimally better. Today has been worse. Hit 9mg of klonopin. Haven't seen that level in a while and it still hasn't helped as much as it should. Must be one of those crappy cycles. At least I slept a lot. Might go to sleep now since I'm tired and could probably use the sleep.

 

Take care.

[starlitegirlx]

NEURO HELL AND THE DAMAGE IT DOES

 

I've been in neuro hell for days now. I had so naively thought this neuro crap wouldn't touch me or screw up my life in any way because despite having episodes of it, I had no idea I was having episodes of it until much later. Right now, the specific neuro hell that haunts me is neuro sadness over an online gaming friend I had. We used to play matches in this multiplayer game, which I am not great at. I do okay. I play the easiest level and sometimes venture into the harder ones. I owe my core ability and skill in this game to him because he saw my post on the game forum that I was having a hard time, and he reached out and offered to help me. Turned out we got along great minus my neuro garbage. He's a sweet, smart, massively skilled in the game and also lives with depression and copes using isolation (no contact). Normally (pre neuro hell) this would not have even bothered me other than concern if he was alright or if he blew me off on plans I'd be a little upset but understand, but I'd let that go under normal circumstances because I would realize he needed to take care of himself.

 

So the neuro hell part - I lost it after I went neuro batshit crazy in a conversation with him regarding my brother (also stuff I'd let go for ages because while a lot of it was paranoia, the root was real), and my online friend after listening to my neuro crazy for probably well over an hour says he'll talk to me tomorrow. Three days went by and all sorts of neuro emotions came up. Abandonment, fear, anger, sadness, paranoia that he didn't want to be friends anymore. So I deleted him from my xbox friend list and then he deleted me from forum friends probably due to being hurt or seeing me as a jerk or something like that, but at the time this felt totally justified because all those neuro emotions were in control, and all I could feel was that I had to protect myself from someone who would blow me off for no reason whenever it suited him. I didn't take his situation into consideration like I normally would have. I just reacted to how I felt which was so amplified and not even totally real since I'm fairly sure I'd have been upset at all.

 

Anyway, he'd been on my mind and I wanted to see if he could get past my neuro crazy so I sent him messages - an apology with an explanation and even a friend invite. I hoped he'd give me a chance, but now I realize that's never going to happen. So now I cry a lot because he was this really nice guy whose company I really like and this freaking withdrawal triggered these neuro emotions that caused me to react so abruptly and insanely. I feel like on top of everything else this withdrawal has taken from me, it screwed up the only good thing to come out of it. I know it was me who acted as I did, but it was neuro emotions that without the withdrawal I'd have never been like that. So now, I cry about this A LOT. I didn't even know him that long, but he made an impression on me. One of those rare people shines compared to all the others that don't. And I wish I could fix it. I wish I could make it alright or change it somehow. I wish he could understand this neuro hell. The one good thing from the withdrawal was that if I wasn't going through it I'd have never bothered with the xbox games and never met him and then lightening strikes in the form of neuro hell and takes it away from me, likely hurting him in the process.

 

So now I cry about this a lot. When I play matches, I think about him especially when the players I'm in the match with suck or behave like tools. He wasn't like that at all. The game has challenges now and you can check online and see how you're doing as well as see how others are doing, and I like to see how he's doing. When I first thought to check his and saw how he's kicking butt, I was so proud of him, but then that made me really sad because I don't get to play matches with him anymore or talk to him anymore because of this neuro bullsh*t. But I can't help checking every few days to see how he's doing because I love to see he's accomplishing these different parts of these challenges until I get sad about how I screwed it all up which I never would have done if it weren't for the withdrawal and damage done to me from the meds. And I'm tired of crying about this. Part of it is neuro stuff, but part of it is genuine regret and sadness that I met someone nice and totally screwed it up because that's not me. I don't screw up friendships or relationship. I am loyal, dependable one who unless someone does something or several things that just show them to be jerks, I give the benefit of the doubt, though over the years I've isolated and insulated myself from people because now I'm tired of giving people chances they don't deserve. Making a nice friend was such a great thing especially in the midst of the withdrawal when I couldn't even leave my house or barely walk down the hall because of dizziness and balance issues. And I screwed it up. I know it's not my fault on some level - neuro emotions and all, but the actions were mine and I can't fix them, change them or take them back. The regret, the sadness, the crying and missing a nice guy I screwed over is a hell I never imagined I'd live with because I'm not that person with other people. But neuro hell seems to have made me that person. It's like it stole this core part of who I am right out from under me, and I can't even explain how it feels. Now I just want to fix the damage done and have my friend back. But I can't. He's gone. He's done with me. Almost certainly didn't read the messages I sent. So I just cry and cry and cry. Some of it's neuro stuff, I'm sure, but most of it is the cost of what I'm living with from the withdrawal.

 

I just want back what was taken from me - the certainty that I will be who I was before the neuro hell set in and made a mockery of my nature, my core, my ability to be a person who treated others well even when they didn't live by the same standard. I don't even know where that core of me and my nature is anymore. I feel like it was torn away when I wasn't looking. That's the worst part of this neuro hell. I just want myself back, as I was before all of this. I wonder if who I was is gone forever...

 

And I want my friend back. I want us to be friends like we were and to talk and play matches and to hear how he's doing and how his day is going because I genuinely miss him. Sadly, I am certain he hasn't given a single thought to me since I deleted him and most certainly doesn't miss me at all. So I should get over it, but I can't because I feel like he was taken from me because of this neuro stuff... not taken but stolen and how do you get over someone that mattered to you, whom under normal circumstances you'd have still been friends with, is gone because of frontal lobe damage or whatever it is from the meds and withdrawal. Sad part is that this game is a good distraction from the withdrawal but I realized tonight I might have to give it up because it reminds me of him and what this withdrawal has cost me on so many levels. I'm tired of losing things I care about. That's why I aim to not care. Nothing can be taken away that matters if nothing matters to you at all.

[Barbarannamated]

Starlitegirl,

 

Your writing touches me on a level I can't describe. And you make me laugh along the way. "Neuro batshit crazy" LOL!

 

I'm sorry this is happening with your friend. If i recall, you went neuro batshit crazy on your brother and he came back and surprised you with unconditional love and support. People can surprise us in good ways occasionally. Very occasionally, granted, but it's possible, no..?

Funny thing... my parents' motto was "don't get your hopes up". I HATED that and determined I would never live with that attitude. However, it's exactly where I am. Like you, I followed the rules, always the f*** good girl. The rewards and positive reinforcement were ALWAYS there through all schooling and career until it was terminated at 39 (although positive reinforcement never from family). After that, I tried tried tried in different directions and was repeatedly hurt, turned down, disappointed. I stayed fairly positive until the last year+ and realizing the drugs had been hurting me all along. Like you, I KNEW they weren't helping but kept following doctors' advice. I knew people who had a good response and I never had even a temporary response or placebo effect. Maybe if we had had a partial response we would feel differently..? I dunno. Just trying to talk thru this neuro batshit anger in hopes that something makes sense.

 

You are the only person who has described feelings so similar to my own. THANK YOU.

I can't help but notice the similarities in our current situations though I did not experience trauma as you did. I would never claim to understand how that has impacted your entire life.

 

To befeel trapped in a life with no options is hell.

You are obviously a very driven person (11 novels, really??). You are passionate and compassionate and dig deep to understand and help people. Your 'zen' is strong when the neuro hell releases its grip.

 

I appreciate you, your honesty and insight. I am not minimizing anyone else's experiences, but I think I most closely relate to yours. To go through this and not have anything tangible to be working toward or looking forward to is not neuro hell, it's a very REAL, PURE HELL.

 

I get it. Been taken down by the undertow too many times. Every time i come up for air, another wave knocks me down. It hurts! I'll just stay down, tread water for now.

 

B

[starlitegirlx]

Thanks barb!

 

Again, glad I made you laugh. We need lots of them these days, don't we?

 

I don't think I'll hear from my friend. I think he probably made up his mind about me long before I sent the apology. Of course, not hearing from him just tells me that if he can't understand what I'm going through and that there was a reason for why I acted as I did (hell, even my mother and brother can comprehend it, and I would have thought him to be MORE understanding as he lives with depression), then perhaps deleting him was right. I apologized and explained, and now I know I did the best I could. But if he cannot understand or give me a chance then I'm thinking there may be some high level hypocrisy there that was not ever going to be worth my time and probably would have caused me more harm than good. See, when people expect you to understand their actions that are due to depression or whatever and expect you to stick around as they behave however they do with their illness in this case as the justification, then to not do so for other people when you expect them to do it for you is the sort of thing that I want no part of. Grow the f*** up! You can't have it both ways. And to behave as though you can, claiming no responsibility for you actions because you have an illness (which I did NOT do or I wouldn't have apologized and explained and tried to make amends while also saying it was not an excuse but simply the reason behind actions I know were rash), then there's nothing left to say and he's already proven himself to be the kind of person I don't want or need in my life. I apologized and explained (if he even read the messages) and accepted responsibility for my actions with genuine regret. I deserve another chance. For him to not give me one just proves that even though deleting him was rash and prompted by neuro emotions, apparently there was intuition playing a greater role in the action that I thought. It's not like I was even bad to him. I always told him how well I thought of him and was concerned for him and his health. Well, you know because you see how I am here with you. And with him it was more because we actually talked. So to not even give me another chance is just proving that I was right even if how I went about it was wrong.

[aza]

 

Oh yes. Many people talk the talk. Very few walk the walk.

(Excuse the cliche)

 

It must be good to see your father's qualities showing through in your brother. Nostalgic, though.

 

You sound hopeful, Starlitegirl.

 

I'm trying to focus on what feels better and the things that are still good in my life, even if they are memories. Maybe the doc giving me a bit of hope that I will recover helped. I think it's just that I've decided that no matter what happens, I know I've tried my best to do right by all the people I've met or known, and I've tried my best to be the best person I could as well as working hard even when the odds were against me. For me, it means that no matter how my life was, in the final moments, I know for certain that nothing changed me for the worst but rather that I chose to let the worst change me for the better at the core of who I am. That might sound corny to some. But it changes everything for me. Clear heart. Clear soul. I may have gotten suicidal or had pity parties. I am human, right? But they were temporary rough times that I made it through. Recently, I've even done what I could to rectify some things I regretted. It changed nothing regarding the situation or the person involved, and I can live with that. I at least, once again, did the best I could. I didn't have to bother. Like with my mother. I didn't have to spend 20 years gradually trying to improve our relationship. I could have been like a lot of people I know and blamed her, been angry, and never seen the improvement I have. But that's not who I am. Withdrawal has just reminded me that the only thing that really matters is who I am in spite of what life has dealt me.

 

Hopeful? Maybe. At peace with myself, most certainly.

 

Hi starlight,

 

It sounds like your doing better, I'm happy for you, I am recovering from gabapentin and had something like your withdrawal thinking that I would never get off gabapentin because the withdrawal was so (god awful) and my doctor though she was sympathetic to my tapering off of gabapentin she had no advise as to how to taper or if there was anything I could take that would help lesson the withdrawal. Lesson learned.

 

I was of course left to deal with this on my own as a consequence of her inaction indecision or ignorance of the potential withdrawal from gabapentin. So like you I began to read the forums and of the servral hundred different posts I read from others who were experiencing withdrawal they were with the exception of 2 posts, they were all asking the same question?

 

How long is this withdrawal going to last? The 2 exceptions were very interesting, they basicly said they were taking a magnesium supplement to help ease the withdrawal. They both said that it was helping.

 

I happened to know that epson salts was magnesium sulfate and I had some lying around the house so out of desperation I began soaking my body in a solution of epson salts. I also used it like mouth wash swishing it around in my mouth and then spitting it out. Well to my astonishment 48 hours after I started doing this my withdrawal symptoms were 95% gone (all the nausea, depression, lack of appetite, general mailaise, head ache, back ache, and even teeth ache were all gone. NOTE: I switched to a better magnesium supplement it took me some time to find it ReMag it's only been out on the market for a couple of months but is 100% obsorbed.

 

Epsom salts did the Job but the problem with epsom salt, as is the problem with most magnesium supplements is the diarea.

 

I know your are wondering how in the world is this going to help me we are talking about to different drugs. Well all I can say is that after reading about magnesium on the internet I believe that magnesium which wont hurt you and you can't overdose on it is worth a (hail mary) like what have I got to loose for trying. (Dr. Carolyn Dean) see below, She helps to explain why magnesium might just be your ticket out of the hell hole you have been living in.

 

The following quote is from carolyndean web sight.

 

Helping people overcome arrhythmias has become more prominent in my consulting work and I’m thrilled to report that ReMag (do a google search for ReMag and Dr. carolyndean), the Pico-Ionic magnesium that I’m privately labeling seems to be as effective as IV magnesium. Picometer magnesium doesn’t cause the laxative effect so you can take large amounts of it to build up your magnesium stores and overcome decades of deficiency. Unfortunately, with most other forms you reach the laxative effect before you reach the saturation point. In fact, I would recommend ReMag to my blog reader so her husband could take more magnesium to overcome his remaining symptoms of atrial fibrillation.

 

"I used to recommend angstrom magnesium however, ReMag Pico-Ionic is a much higher potency at 50,000 ppm compared to 3,000 ppm in the angstrom form. ReMag comes in 8oz. bottles at an average daily dosage of 250 mg per 4 mls (1 tsp = 5 ml). The smaller bottles make it much more convenient and easier to pack when traveling.

 

5. In my book, The Magnesium Miracle I talked about Dr. Mildred Seelig’s original research with the pharmaceutical industry. She found that most drugs, when taken, cause magnesium to flood the blood stream. Presumably to help detoxify the drug. HOWEVER, the surge of magnesium can greatly benefit the individual who assumes that the drug is causing the benefit. Then after “the honeymoon is over” and all the magnesium stores are depleted, you really begin to notice the drug side effect. The drug companies have not bothered to convey this information to the public."

 

I encourage you to try the Remag.

[starlitegirlx]

 

 

Oh yes. Many people talk the talk. Very few walk the walk.

(Excuse the cliche)

 

It must be good to see your father's qualities showing through in your brother. Nostalgic, though.

 

You sound hopeful, Starlitegirl.

 

I'm trying to focus on what feels better and the things that are still good in my life, even if they are memories. Maybe the doc giving me a bit of hope that I will recover helped. I think it's just that I've decided that no matter what happens, I know I've tried my best to do right by all the people I've met or known, and I've tried my best to be the best person I could as well as working hard even when the odds were against me. For me, it means that no matter how my life was, in the final moments, I know for certain that nothing changed me for the worst but rather that I chose to let the worst change me for the better at the core of who I am. That might sound corny to some. But it changes everything for me. Clear heart. Clear soul. I may have gotten suicidal or had pity parties. I am human, right? But they were temporary rough times that I made it through. Recently, I've even done what I could to rectify some things I regretted. It changed nothing regarding the situation or the person involved, and I can live with that. I at least, once again, did the best I could. I didn't have to bother. Like with my mother. I didn't have to spend 20 years gradually trying to improve our relationship. I could have been like a lot of people I know and blamed her, been angry, and never seen the improvement I have. But that's not who I am. Withdrawal has just reminded me that the only thing that really matters is who I am in spite of what life has dealt me.

 

Hopeful? Maybe. At peace with myself, most certainly.

 

Hi starlight,

 

It sounds like your doing better, I'm happy for you, I am recovering from gabapentin and had something like your withdrawal thinking that I would never get off gabapentin because the withdrawal was so (god awful) and my doctor though she was sympathetic to my tapering off of gabapentin she had no advise as to how to taper or if there was anything I could take that would help lesson the withdrawal. Lesson learned.

 

I was of course left to deal with this on my own as a consequence of her inaction indecision or ignorance of the potential withdrawal from gabapentin. So like you I began to read the forums and of the servral hundred different posts I read from others who were experiencing withdrawal they were with the exception of 2 posts, they were all asking the same question?

 

How long is this withdrawal going to last? The 2 exceptions were very interesting, they basicly said they were taking a magnesium supplement to help ease the withdrawal. They both said that it was helping.

 

I happened to know that epson salts was magnesium sulfate and I had some lying around the house so out of desperation I began soaking my body in a solution of epson salts. I also used it like mouth wash swishing it around in my mouth and then spitting it out. Well to my astonishment 48 hours after I started doing this my withdrawal symptoms were 95% gone (all the nausea, depression, lack of appetite, general mailaise, head ache, back ache, and even teeth ache were all gone. NOTE: I switched to a better magnesium supplement it took me some time to find it ReMag it's only been out on the market for a couple of months but is 100% obsorbed.

 

Epsom salts did the Job but the problem with epsom salt, as is the problem with most magnesium supplements is the diarea.

 

I know your are wondering how in the world is this going to help me we are talking about to different drugs. Well all I can say is that after reading about magnesium on the internet I believe that magnesium which wont hurt you and you can't overdose on it is worth a (hail mary) like what have I got to loose for trying. (Dr. Carolyn Dean) see below, She helps to explain why magnesium might just be your ticket out of the hell hole you have been living in.

 

The following quote is from carolyndean web sight.

 

Helping people overcome arrhythmias has become more prominent in my consulting work and I’m thrilled to report that ReMag (do a google search for ReMag and Dr. carolyndean), the Pico-Ionic magnesium that I’m privately labeling seems to be as effective as IV magnesium. Picometer magnesium doesn’t cause the laxative effect so you can take large amounts of it to build up your magnesium stores and overcome decades of deficiency. Unfortunately, with most other forms you reach the laxative effect before you reach the saturation point. In fact, I would recommend ReMag to my blog reader so her husband could take more magnesium to overcome his remaining symptoms of atrial fibrillation.

 

"I used to recommend angstrom magnesium however, ReMag Pico-Ionic is a much higher potency at 50,000 ppm compared to 3,000 ppm in the angstrom form. ReMag comes in 8oz. bottles at an average daily dosage of 250 mg per 4 mls (1 tsp = 5 ml). The smaller bottles make it much more convenient and easier to pack when traveling.

 

5. In my book, The Magnesium Miracle I talked about Dr. Mildred Seelig’s original research with the pharmaceutical industry. She found that most drugs, when taken, cause magnesium to flood the blood stream. Presumably to help detoxify the drug. HOWEVER, the surge of magnesium can greatly benefit the individual who assumes that the drug is causing the benefit. Then after “the honeymoon is over” and all the magnesium stores are depleted, you really begin to notice the drug side effect. The drug companies have not bothered to convey this information to the public."

 

I encourage you to try the Remag.

 

Maybe I'll try the epsom salts mouth rinse. I don't have the specific symptoms you described. I have tremors, vibrations, blurred vision, balance issues at times, and neuro mood stuff as the main stuff. It waxes and wanes. I think it's part of the recovery cycle. Adapt, recover, heal, adapt, recover, heal. Adapt is the worst part. Recover is as the symptoms abate and heal is when we feel our best because your healed a bit more than you were.

 

Today I'm not so concerned about when it's going to end, but I do get that way at times. I guess it depends on a lot of things. I do trust in my body to heal itself. I'm not nuts about how long it may take. I also don't know if there's some stopping point where it's going to be as good as it gets. But right now, at this moment, I have faith.

[starlitegirlx]

I have a strange kind of insomnia that's new to me. I'll be dead exhausted and get ready to sleep then in a few minutes, I need to not sleep. I can't seem to sleep. Like my system doesn't comprehend closing my eyes and curling up in bed means sleep. It seems to think that means pretend to go to sleep then impulses come to do stuff. To not sleep. And suddenly I cannot sleep and the tiredness goes and I'm on another wind. This has been happening regularly for at least a month. Nice added touch of hell since I love to sleep. Ah well, might as well play a video game.

[starlitegirlx]

Outrage is the name of the day. Stupid things that keep coming up, mostly bullsh*t stuff that aggravates me. Or people that need a whack in the head. And I'm not a violent person, but every once in a while, someone crosses your path that you just feel like someone needs to give them a hard smack in the head and maybe knock some sense into them.

 

This withdrawal really does test my patience. And over many years I learned to have a much higher threshold for bullsh*t things that upset me much easier many years ago. Now, with the withdrawal, I feel like my threshold is much lower and it is not pleasant at all. To have worked at becoming a person where I stayed the course of calmness and didn't let most things bother me unless they were ongoing or heavy pressure and now feel like that ability to handle things with some degree of grace has been taken leaves me feeling more and more like this withdrawal is akin to some kind of psychological rape. Not physical, but an assault on my psyche at level I didn't even imagine my psyche could be assaulted. And all I can do is sit and endure the endless hell of it - ups and downs, ebbs and flows, waxes and wanes - it just keeps coming and there's no place for me to take cover while I regain some composure. I'm just out in the open where the gunfire and attacks are and there's not even a wall or anything for me to get behind for just a minute... just enough to get my bearings before I go down in this fight. Of course, then I think I should just rush the thing that's attacking me knowing I'll get killed in the attempt, but at least I will not go down alone or at least I will deal some damage. If only this withdrawal were an actual enemy I could aim for. I probably would do a mad suicide dodge at it because if I'm going down by this thing, I'm taking it with me.

[Barbarannamated]

Oh yeah! bullsh*t detector is exquisitely sensitive now. I've also become more aware of the side of story or situation that other people don't notice and that I may not have in past. Hard to explain and can't think of an example.

 

I'm not convinced this is a bad thing. Difficult and frustrating as hell, absolutely. I was far too tolerant before. Some midpoint would be good.

 

B

[starlitegirlx]

Today, I can't do this. Not the emotions or neuro emotions. Not being alive. Not how horrible my body feels or how everywhere in my life I see more reasons to quit. How did I get here? Life has been a challenge, but THIS? And I can't go back so I have to sit here and endure the torture, which every day carries something new or something old come back for a visit. Things are going wrong one after another and I can't even keep up with it anymore. People are hurtful or uncaring and insensitive. They lack understanding and make me which I was never born, never here. I didn't even imagine I'd spend nine months of pure hell in withdrawal. And I freaking hate people who have it easy but think they have it hard because of some problem that isn't even a real problem except that they make it one with how they react or refuse to act.

 

And I'm really time of this emotional crap and tired of this feeling like electrical currents are running through my body. And I hate myself for this constant complaining and whining, but I have to let it out somewhere and here is the only place I have to go. I used to be able to take it, to deal with it in silence, whatever it was. Now, I just want to know the silence. To be dead. This is no way to live. The physical and emotional pain is unlike anything I've ever known - constant and unrelenting. And nobody understands the nearly constant level of it except people here. I really just want to die. Really. I keep doing my best to be strong and tolerate it and get through it but then a new wave of hell comes and I come unhinged again. Not nearly enough down time between the waves. I don't think I can make it and more importantly, i don't want to. Freaking ADs. I might have had a halfway decent or tolerable life, but now at 44, I'm feeling pretty much screwed.

[Barbarannamated]

Starlite,

 

I'm sorry you're having such a tough time and wish I had something helpful to say.

 

Last month, you notice that your symptoms coincided with your cycle. When I was your age and pre-menopausal, I began having PMS that was far worse than in younger years when I barely noticed it. I learned that that is common for PMS to worsen and last for a longer part of the month. Ugly and foreign emotions surfaced and then remitted when period started. I read the book What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Premenopause and it explained alot.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0446615390

 

Just wanted to mention this in case it's playing in.

 

Hang in there.

 

B

[starlitegirlx]

Starlite,

 

I'm sorry you're having such a tough time and wish I had something helpful to say.

 

Last month, you notice that your symptoms coincided with your cycle. When I was your age and pre-menopausal, I began having PMS that was far worse than in younger years when I barely noticed it. I learned that that is common for PMS to worsen and last for a longer part of the month. Ugly and foreign emotions surfaced and then remitted when period started. I read the book What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Premenopause and it explained alot.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0446615390

 

Just wanted to mention this in case it's playing in.

 

Hang in there.

 

B

 

Funny you should write this. I just started my cycle, early. So the last few days were definitely some kind of hormonal thing added to the mix. Today is actually a really nice window day. I'm relaxed and watching some TV and ignoring the cramps since it could be much worse. Yay for window days!

[starlitegirlx]

I'm sick...it's like i have a severe flu much of the time...and a host of other issues too. Severe autonomic dysregulation that affects me in numerous ways...my equilibrium is very messed up which makes getting in a car impossible quite often.

 

but more than anything it's like having the worst flu you can imagine a good part of the time. I really don't know how to explain better than that to anyone who has not experienced it.

 

it's not as bad as it used to be...because frankly at it's height it was like having severe flu times 1,000 or more...insane really.

 

I'm much better now.

 

Your symptoms are the same as mine though mine are less severe in that I can drive a short distance (a quarter mile to the store). But when I got in the car to go to the doctor's appt a few weeks ago, and it was on the highway around 20 minutes, I was getting dizzy and blurred vision as my friend drove. On the way home it was dark and the car lights were so surreal looking. I couldn't track anything vision wise. Things were moving too fast. I have the equilibrium thing as well. It's like being dizzy but not quite. And my stomach hurts more these days. I barely eat. These seem to be rare withdrawal symptoms though from what I could tell.

 

I'm sorry you have to go through this. I hope you continue to recover and recover quickly.

 

Edited to add: sorry I went off topic.

[GiaK]

yes, sounds similar...I couldn't leave the house for about 2 years it was so severe (while I was bedridden)...I actually would have rather died than go see a doctor and was lucky enough to not have the sort of emergency where I would have to go...it was truly beyond nightmarish...such hell I didn't realize could exist...but I learned that hell can go deeper and deeper...and in fact I came to realize at my worst that it could even get worse than that...but at some point it did turn around and start moving the direction towards health...

 

I'm still pretty darn debilitated, but I can do things I enjoy from time to time now.

[starlitegirlx]

yes, sounds similar...I couldn't leave the house for about 2 years it was so severe (while I was bedridden)...I actually would have rather died than go see a doctor and was lucky enough to not have the sort of emergency where I would have to go...it was truly beyond nightmarish...such hell I didn't realize could exist...but I learned that hell can go deeper and deeper...and in fact I came to realize at my worst that it could even get worse than that...but at some point it did turn around and start moving the direction towards health...

 

I'm still pretty darn debilitated, but I can do things I enjoy from time to time now.

 

GiaK,

 

I looked up autonomic dysfunction but it seems there is limited information available on it on the internet, however, after reading your description of what you went and are going through, and me having the exact symptoms (though some have seemed to have lasted far shorter, perhaps because I was on the AD that caused them for a decade less than you), I was wondering if you could help me understand what I'm going through and any methods you've learned that could help me deal with it best as I heal or help me heal as well as possible. I do seem to be healing. I still have tremors most every morning when I wake up and if they are strong (like a bad case of shivers) I need to take 1 or sometimes 2 mg of klonopin to stop them or get then to calm enough to function otherwise everything goes sideways and more symptoms are triggered. I get the breathing issues at times and racing heart sometimes. Sometimes sweating and chills. Dizziness and balance issues. Blurry vision. Sometimes stomach and intestinal issues. It's like my autonomic system that is supposed to regulate these things doesn't know how to do it correctly anymore. You are the only person I've met on here to have these same issues, so I am hoping you can help me. They have been gradually healing and self correcting, though sometimes rather slowly depending on the issue like dizziness, vision stuff. The worst part with intense flu symptoms where I was in so much pain I thought I would die lasted a few weeks, maybe three then lessened and seems to be mostly gone. I'm learning to avoid the klonopin use for tremors unless they are intense because that triggers other issues and just makes it impossible to even lay here. But I suspect that using the klonopin is probably not helping so I only use it now when the tremors are like intense shivers. I've developed a threshold tolerance to them that is higher than before so I can have the tremors to a certain degree without klonopin, and it won't trigger other symptoms or if it does, they are tolerable.

 

Would you mind helping me understand this and sharing anything you've learned that can be helpful or hurtful to the healing process. Also, I'm very sorry you have to deal with this nightmare. Thanks.