starlitegirlx: slowly tapered off Imipramine

[GiaK]

starlitegirl,

I'm not sure I can help you understand a whole lot since I can't say I understand all that much...not really. But I am learning to trust my bodies capacity to heal.

 

My blog has a thread that deals explicitly with the ways I've been learning to cope. I will give you some links to look at collections of my coping posts. There are a lot at this point...I suggest you just see what pops out and resonates (if anything does), read that and forget the rest. I've learned how to do many different things to both heal as well as at times to simply cope.

 

Information and inspiration for the chronically ill That link is about chronic illness but that is what I call it so that it can appeal to others too...it's all based on my experience with withdrawal syndrome http://beyondmeds.com/2012/05/15/chronicillnesstab/

 

The foundation of healing mental distress and of becoming a mature human adult really this includes our minds response to physical pain too

http://beyondmeds.com/2012/06/24/foundation/

 

anyway...those are two collections...see if anything speaks...I didn't know where to begin with otherwise.

 

best to you. xo

[GiaK]

oh and Starlitegirl...

 

definitely minimize and hopefully eliminate the use of Klonopin...my issues really are benzo related, not AD. There is a TON of crossover with these two class of drugs when it comes to withdrawal symptoms.

[starlitegirlx]

oh and Starlitegirl...

 

definitely minimize and hopefully eliminate the use of Klonopin...my issues really are benzo related, not AD. There is a TON of crossover with these two class of drugs when it comes to withdrawal symptoms.

 

The worst of my symptoms began when my AD cuts got larger so I had been convinced it was AD related. I will definitely use the klonopin at the bare minimum, which I have been for a while now. When the tremors get really bad or if I wake up and they are bad, I take a mg. Sometimes they are so bad one doesn't work. I don't like using them, but I don't know how to get through severe tremors without them. For years I had only been taking 1k at night except on rare rounds of extreme stress whereas I had been taking 100-150 mg of imipramine whose withdrawal symptoms seem to be the flu ones and autonomic dysfunction ones. I never really used the klonopin much at all.

 

I'll read the links you posted, and I'll focus on limiting my klonopin use. I should probably start reading the bezo WD forum if I'll need to eliminate that at some point. I'm lost now though because I didn't think the klonopin was the issue and I am in withdrawal with AD withdrawal stuff going on but if the klonopin is a problem too that means I've got two meds to deal with at once that are causing problems. I don't even know where to begin with that if the klonopin is an issue. I don't think I'm stable enough to at all to taper it. I'm not even sure how I would do that because it's been PRN since I began tapering the AD over a year ago. I'll minimize and tough it out with less klonopin. God this is scary now.

[GiaK]

oh, if you're taking klonopin daily, which i did not understand then you need to carefully withdraw...you can't stop taking it suddenly

 

so yes, please get support...it's very much like coming off ADs.

[Jemima]

 

and just so you know...Klonopin is very strong. 1 mg is equivalent to 20 mg of Valium and they prescribe 2 mg Valium tabs...

 

when one comes off of Klonopin the taper of 1 mg can take a year or more...and in your case it would certainly be wise to do an ultra slow taper should you decide to come off it.

 

I'll definitely come off it if it is one of the reasons I am dealing with this. However, right now, I think I should focus on minimizing use of it. Where I have been at for the past 2 months for klonopin is 3-4mg a day. I've been using it for the internal tremors. I was at insanely high doses for a few months while it was really bad (up to 10-14mg a day on rare times and 8mg at other rare times). So being down to 3-4 mg with some 2 mg days mixed in is progress and now that I'm only using it for heavy tremors, I'm hoping to taper back more gradually as the tremors seem to be slowly diminishing and my threshold for what I can tolerate without taking klonopin is higher. I have noticed though that if I go a few days with not taking the extra klonopin for tremors that are at or below threshold level, I hit a day or two where they are above that level. So I'm starting to wonder if the tremors are related to the klonopin use and taking less of it is triggering the tremors to eventually spike up.

 

I hope I can get down to that 1 mg of klonopin again and then do the taper from there. But since I've been at 3-4mg or more for the past 9 months or so, I am concerned that I might not get back to that 1 mg at night baseline I was at for so many years. I'm really confused now because I thought it was purely AD WD. I'm not even sure where to begin with the klonopin except to just tough it out and minimize use as much as possible hoping my body adapts. looks like there's going to be more to this than I thought and that it's going to last a lot longer. I also take tegretol at 300 mg. Luckily it's a low dose that I've been at for many years. 400mg was my max with that one, but I guess I'll probably have to go off that one at some point too. I really was hoping to just have to deal with the AD WD. I feel like I don't know if I can do this realizing that it's going to take years and probably tons of pain and misery. Looking back, just dealing with depression was so much easier. This is pure hell.

 

Starlitegirlx,

 

Considering that you're still suffering from AD withdrawal, I think it might be best if you just hold the Klonopin at your current dose until your nervous system is more stable. As long as you don't increase your dose of Klonopin, it shouldn't be any harder to taper off at a later date.

 

In the meantime, you might want to read further about tapering off several drugs:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2207-taking-multiple-psych-drugs-taper-the-antidepressant-first/

 

And you might want to check in with the benzo forum to get an idea of what that taper is about:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/29-members-only-benzo-tapering-discussion/

[Altostrata]

At GiaK's request, I moved the posts about the nuts and bolts of Klonopin withdrawal here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3409-starlitegirlx-thinking-about-tapering-klonopin/

[starlitegirlx]

At GiaK's request, I moved the posts about the nuts and bolts of Klonopin withdrawal here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3409-starlitegirlx-thinking-about-tapering-klonopin/

 

Thanks! Sorry about that.

[Jemima]

I just had to move another post, so from now on could we please keep comments and replies regarding Klonopin in the benzo forum and comments and replies on the Intro, which are mostly about AD withdrawal, here? Thank you.

[starlitegirlx]

I just had to move another post, so from now on could we please keep comments and replies regarding Klonopin in the benzo forum and comments and replies on the Intro, which are mostly about AD withdrawal, here? Thank you.

 

My apologies. I didn't think there was an issue because it's my thread about what's going on during my AD WD and the benzo stuff seemed to be part of it. It feels connected to the issues I'm having not separate from them. Sorry I made that mistake. I will avoid any kind of benzo stuff in my thread. I'll just stick to AD related and not mention anything benzo at all.

[Altostrata]

Yep, it's your thread, starlite, about your situation. No one is at fault.

 

GiaK thought *she* had pushed the thread off-topic and requested the benzo tapering details be moved.

 

Now we have two interesting topics going, one in the benzo forum.

[starlitegirlx]

Yep, it's your thread, starlite, about your situation. No one is at fault.

 

GiaK thought *she* had pushed the thread off-topic and requested the benzo tapering details be moved.

 

Now we have two interesting topics going, one in the benzo forum.

 

Okay. Thanks! I thought I screwed up by talking about the benzo stuff in here and that it was to be strictly AD related. Thanks.

[Shanti]

I was just about to ask the rules about this as I was doing the same thing. So that's good to know. But should we also make a benzo journal thread like starlites over at the benzo forum too?

[Jemima]

 

Yep, it's your thread, starlite, about your situation. No one is at fault.

 

GiaK thought *she* had pushed the thread off-topic and requested the benzo tapering details be moved.

 

Now we have two interesting topics going, one in the benzo forum.

 

Okay. Thanks! I thought I screwed up by talking about the benzo stuff in here and that it was to be strictly AD related. Thanks.

 

The posts were originally moved because they were getting the topic of intrusive thoughts way off track. GiaK thought some of the posts should be moved to the benzo discussion.

 

I did a lot of that moving around, mostly because the topic was getting into some really detailed questions and answers about benzo tapering, which I thought would be better addressed in the benzo forum where people who know a lot more than most of us - including me - can respond. There were also a lot of related posts being made one right after another, but in three different places to the point that it was getting hard to keep up with it all.

 

Your Intro topic *is* all about you, so your problems and progress with both ADs and benzos belong there. It's just my opinion that really detailed discussions and questions about benzo withdrawal will likely be more productive in the benzo forum, where more people know what they're talking about.

 

You certainly weren't being reprimanded, and I apologize for any confusion I may have caused. I PM'd you so you'd know where your posts had been moved, not to criticize you. Post away!

[starlitegirlx]

 

 

Yep, it's your thread, starlite, about your situation. No one is at fault.

 

GiaK thought *she* had pushed the thread off-topic and requested the benzo tapering details be moved.

 

Now we have two interesting topics going, one in the benzo forum.

 

Okay. Thanks! I thought I screwed up by talking about the benzo stuff in here and that it was to be strictly AD related. Thanks.

 

The posts were originally moved because they were getting the topic of intrusive thoughts way off track. GiaK thought some of the posts should be moved to the benzo discussion.

 

I did a lot of that moving around, mostly because the topic was getting into some really detailed questions and answers about benzo tapering, which I thought would be better addressed in the benzo forum where people who know a lot more than most of us - including me - can respond. There were also a lot of related posts being made one right after another, but in three different places to the point that it was getting hard to keep up with it all.

 

Your Intro topic *is* all about you, so your problems and progress with both ADs and benzos belong there. It's just my opinion that really detailed discussions and questions about benzo withdrawal will likely be more productive in the benzo forum, where more people know what they're talking about.

 

You certainly weren't being reprimanded, and I apologize for any confusion I may have caused. I PM'd you so you'd know where your posts had been moved, not to criticize you. Post away!

 

I didn't think I was being reprimanded. I just thought I did something I shouldn't. I'm sorry for all the confusion or for any hard feelings. I'm just getting scared about the klonopin now being another issue to deal with when i didn't think it would be. So I just kept asking questions about things because any information I can get will help me understand it and the more I understand it the more calm I'll feel about it.

 

I'm sorry for any problems I caused. I never meant to do that.

[Skyler]

Merry Christmas starlite... I hope you are well enough to find some Joy this holiday season.

[starlitegirlx]

Thanks skyler!

 

Hope your holiday was great!

[Jemima]

Starlitegirlx, how are you doing on a steady dose of Klonopin?

[starlitegirlx]

Starlitegirlx, how are you doing on a steady dose of Klonopin?

 

It's a bit better. Still having unpleasant things like balance issues, headaches, feeling like I'm being electrocuted and RLS feelings, but there was some improvement.

 

Today started really badly though. Snow storm last night, bigger than I thought. Had to go to the market to not lose food stamp money and because I needed healthy food and there are only a few days left. So I got in my car, backed out of my driveway and saw a truck speeding down (plow truck for parking lots). Had to stop. Driveway is on a hill so all the extra snow gets dumped there. Turns out it was over a foot. Would have made it through if I didn't have to stop then I could have parked across the street. Now car is stuck at the bottom. I can't move it. Too sick to try since walking is still an issue. The neighbor saw me stuck and didn't bother to help with his snow blower - just went back into his house or whatever even though he was in the process of using it - oh and he bought it dirt cheap from my mom a few months after my dad died. I think he knows I'm sick too since his kids have been helping with the trash for months. The plow was supposed to come later but he was belligerent about it since he quit after not much snow last year. So I have a feeling he won't care or want to clear around my car when he sees it's stuck and not a quick dollar for him.

 

I'm just leaving my car there. My mother will be pissed and go crazy trying to get people to help move it, but good luck with that. I'm so tired from all of this and feeling like this so much of the time.

 

I tried to calculate how long I'll be tapering off the klonopin and it could be well over a year. Plus there's the possibility of protracted withdrawal which I'll probably have given that seems to be the way things go for me. Too many big and little things keep happening and tax my stress and make it worse. I just don't have the will or energy to deal with this and the winter, calculating when I can get out to get some shopping done and not have to deal with snow. Getting out was hard enough before. Now snow will make it nearly impossible.

 

What really makes me sad is how my neighbor just vanished. I sat in my car crying for a few minutes then retreated into the house in defeat. Let my car sit there. I try and then there's a big storm and plows dump feet of snow at the end of my driveway and then a truck comes speeding down the road, forces me to stop and now it's stuck there, which it probably wouldn't have been. doesn't matter. It's stuck. Now I just want it to sit there and see how long it takes anyone in this idiot neighborhood to realize a car stuck at the bottom of the driveway with nobody trying to move it means something is wrong. Sad thing is that I just don't care anymore. It all just makes me sad and takes whatever bit of will I had to live away.

 

Sorry for all that. I just feel so defeated.

[Jemima]

I understand. It's truly remarkable how self-centered people have become and how little one can depend on the goodwill of neighbors. I'm Christian and I can't even depend on the "goodwill" of fellow church members. Bah, humbug.

 

I'm glad to hear that a steady dose of Klonopin is helping. I wish so much that we could help you more.

[starlitegirlx]

I understand. It's truly remarkable how self-centered people have become and how little one can depend on the goodwill of neighbors. I'm Christian and I can't even depend on the "goodwill" of fellow church members. Bah, humbug.

 

I'm glad to hear that a steady dose of Klonopin is helping. I wish so much that we could help you more.

 

A neighbor did come over and help with digging the car out and putting it in the driveway. He knows I've been sick for a while. I used to think he was a tool, but turns out he was a good neighbor. That and our mailman came and shoveled the driveway (in the shortest time ever) and we paid him. He didn't have to, but when he couldn't help us in finding someone to do it, he did it. My mom paid him for it, but it was nice of him to do. The lack of goodwill is disheartening. These days though, a lot is disheartening. I am in a wave right now due to hormones from TOM (time of month), so it's really got me in an I can't do this mode where I think that tapering off this klonopin is going to be a total horror. On the bright side, I think that whatever Major AD WD I had is gone or not the issue, but rather it was for a bit but then the irregular klonopin use was the true issue which is why I'm concerned about tapering and even protracted WD if I decide to go off it completely after all these tapers over what looks like it might be at least a year if I do 10% every two week (depending on how my body handles it) once I get fully stabilized.

 

Thanks for posting the kind thoughts. It helps a lot.

[starlitegirlx]

I wake up with tremors every morning. Sometimes they are very intense. Once in a while they are mild. Mostly, they are mild until they become intense. I wish I knew what they were from. I do know that the klonopin morning dose stops them after it's in my system or it dulls them quite a bit. Not sure if this is AD WD related for from the benzo use and some kind of benzo WD. Since the K stops them or minimizes them I'm guessing it's more K related though they did start during my AD taper but they phased out during each taper.

 

I'm wondering if they are permanent or if they will gradually subside. When I think they are subsiding I have days where they are stronger than ever. I also wonder if I have to wait till they are gone before tapering my K. They may never go. Two weeks on this stable amount of K and I had hoped to see some improvement. But none yet regarding the tremors. Still having some other benzo withdrawal symptoms, but nothing terrible though stuff that does effect my lifestyle like dizziness or feeling unsteady when I walk at times both of which have improved. I've even had days where I've had tremors all day. Minor ones that remind me of anxiety. I just ignore it as best as I can and get through it.

 

I feel like I'm on a hold part with the K only after almost four weeks I'm not seeing the kind of improvement I hoped for at this point. AD WD wise, I feel much more stable. I know the blurred vision/dizziness is par for the course with the benzo WD, but I don't know if it requires a hold as I've read it's normal during tapering - screwy vision for a while maybe even after you are off. The tremors might be too. I just don't know about this stuff. I think I'll repost some of this in the benzo forum to seek advice.

[Sparrow]

Starlite, you're just 6 months off the A/D and a couple of weeks into a consistent benzo dose. Your CNS is a mess and it's going to be for a while.

 

You can drive yourself nuts trying to figure out what's causing what, but when you've got multiple drugs/withdrawals in the picture, it's nearly impossible to tease apart all the interlocking strands. I still do this myself, to no avail. "Am I anhedonic because of the benzo taper? Or is it being caused by the antidepressant? Or maybe it's the continuing aftereffects of my horrific 2009 Pristiq cold-turkey?" And on and on.

 

Bottom line is, there's no way to answer this, and it doesn't matter.

 

Your tremors are the visible evidence of a destabilized nervous system. They are extremely unlikely to permanent.

 

The best thing you can do right now is simply to "stay the course" and give your body time to settle into your new regimen. I know you're anxious to begin the K taper, but you may do better to just let things be for a few more months. Think of it as just doing a hold at your current K dose.

 

I'm really relating to your situation because I'm chomping at the bit to get started on tapering my last drug (Lexapro) and be done with all this poison once and for all. I'm so close to being free...and yet still so far. Knowing that I cannot speed this process up is maddening.

 

Hugs,

Sparrow

[Barbarannamated]

Starlitegirl,

 

I agree with Sparrow, but have one additional thought. Have you tested your morning blood sugar? I know diabetics who wake with sweats and tremors when blood sugar is low. Blood sugar is tied to cortisol somehow, although i don't know the exact relationship. The fact that K stops the tremors doesn't fit the blood sugar theory, though.

 

I haven't seen this discussed on forum. Will have to search for more info.

 

BTW, NOT implying you are diabetic! I just happened to learn that from someone in tune with blood sugar symptoms.

[starlitegirlx]

Starlitegirl,

 

I agree with Sparrow, but have one additional thought. Have you tested your morning blood sugar? I know diabetics who wake with sweats and tremors when blood sugar is low. Blood sugar is tied to cortisol somehow, although i don't know the exact relationship. The fact that K stops the tremors doesn't fit the blood sugar theory, though.

 

I haven't seen this discussed on forum. Will have to search for more info.

 

BTW, NOT implying you are diabetic! I just happened to learn that from someone in tune with blood sugar symptoms.

 

Never tested blood sugar. I think the K calming it might go against that. I don't have the sweats. Just the flat out tremors.

[starlitegirlx]

Starlite, you're just 6 months off the A/D and a couple of weeks into a consistent benzo dose. Your CNS is a mess and it's going to be for a while.

 

You can drive yourself nuts trying to figure out what's causing what, but when you've got multiple drugs/withdrawals in the picture, it's nearly impossible to tease apart all the interlocking strands. I still do this myself, to no avail. "Am I anhedonic because of the benzo taper? Or is it being caused by the antidepressant? Or maybe it's the continuing aftereffects of my horrific 2009 Pristiq cold-turkey?" And on and on.

 

Bottom line is, there's no way to answer this, and it doesn't matter.

 

Your tremors are the visible evidence of a destabilized nervous system. They are extremely unlikely to permanent.

 

The best thing you can do right now is simply to "stay the course" and give your body time to settle into your new regimen. I know you're anxious to begin the K taper, but you may do better to just let things be for a few more months. Think of it as just doing a hold at your current K dose.

 

I'm really relating to your situation because I'm chomping at the bit to get started on tapering my last drug (Lexapro) and be done with all this poison once and for all. I'm so close to being free...and yet still so far. Knowing that I cannot speed this process up is maddening.

 

Hugs,

Sparrow

 

I guess you are right. I just am concerned that it could take a long time for the tremors to stop and that whole time I'm on 3.5mg on K knowing it could be making things a lot worse especially when it comes time to taper. I feel so stupid for having taken the K to being with to help with the WD. I made things so much worse. But if they aren't going to be permanent then holding while the tremors subside is best, I guess. I just hope it doesn't take a long long time which I am afraid it will. Like more than six months. Meanwhile, I'm at that high dose of K which is only adding to the K issue down the line.

 

This all just really sucks. Flat out sucks beyond words. I never asked for any of this. And doctors handed me pills without a clue of the damage they could do. Now I pay for their ignorance while they get rich off my suffering. It's maddening. Purely maddening.

 

The sad part is that I don't see any signs that the tremors are slowing or improving. Maybe I should just accept that it could be years before that happens if it happens at all and that I'll be on 3.5mg of K for years during the interim. So sad. Really really sad.

[starlitegirlx]

Woke up with no tremors today. It was really weird. I kept waiting for them to come. Maybe about 15 or 20 minutes because usually by then they have hit, but nothing except maybe a tiny tremor rather than the severe ones. Maybe I'm in a window. Such a leap from major tremors to none that were notable leaves me cautious. It could be a window. I will just be grateful for the one morning I felt good and was able to enjoy the calm that comes with no tremors. It was amazing and a sign of hope. So if tomorrow has tremors, knowing that today didn't is still something I can hang onto. To me it means that there is progress and that the tremors can and will go away at some point if they were not there today. YAY!

[dalsaan]

That's great and a good way to think about it. It is lovely to see what is possible

 

Dalsaan

[Barbarannamated]

YAY!!!

 

If i may suggest... write down all of the ways you are experiencing this window of tremorless calm so you can recall it. I had a 1 day window a few weeks ago and wish i had done that. I woke without the dread and felt an internal calm all day. And hope.

 

B

[starlitegirlx]

Thanks Barb, good idea!

 

This morning I woke up with tremors. But I just lay there in bed feeling them, owning them, accepting them. I waited and wondered if they would get worse because they weren't as bad as the norm. Surprisingly, they subsided. Yes, they subsided without the aid of K. I just choose to be stubborn and ride it out and see how bad it gets before reaching for the pill that calms them down. Being stubborn has its perks. This is one of them. Tremors passed to mild form and almost gone. Then I took my morning dose of K - 1mg and .5mg that was titrated in milk from 1mg. Since these pills are cut from 2mg pills, I know I have to get 1mg pills so I'm not getting more or less than I want into my system. I was going to wait some months before calling the doc, but it's been 4 months since I filled my script and so I think I'll call in a few weeks or end of Jan and tell him I'm tapering down from the dose I was at, using titration so to not have to cut the 2mg pills which is why I've gone through them and that I now need 1mg pills, 5 per day (higher than the dose I need given I'm at 3.5 mg, but given his PMS around the issue lately, I'd rather have some extra so I can deal with him as little as possible as well as not have to refill as quickly and have extra on hand in case a titration goes wrong). I'll tell him I'm at 4mg spaced out evenly throughout the day at 1mg doses and that cutting messes it up because they're too potent, that I've done my research and K is the worst of the worst, the most potent of all the benzos if he gives me any flack. Of course, if he does give me flack I'll remind him how he told me the K refills wouldn't be an issue and he did it with my friend in the office. But I don't think he will.

[starlitegirlx]

Another morning where the tremors were there but as time passed, they diminished. Not entirely, but they did improve. I took my K after around a half an hour or a bit more because I knew waiting to take it probably wasn't smart even if I was curious to see how much the tremors would diminish without it. Fact is that I know they are diminishing gradually and that I am recovering and my CNS is recovering.

 

I'm beginning to feel that my outcome will be a good one when all is said and done and when I am off the K eventually since I was only on the three meds for 16 years with trazadone at 50mg and seroquel at 25. very, very briefly as PRN and basically rarely used. That might be my personal saving grace. And that the AD wasn't and SSRI but only had an SSRI component which seems to have been small.

 

Once my CNS has stabilized and the tremors have subsided, I'll wait a bit longer then begin my K taper. I had decided to do a 5% taper and work up from there, but now I'm thinking 10% and working down might be better. It's hard to know which way to go. Caution is probably always best, but part of me feels that starting so low at 5% might be absurdly slow without first determining if 10% is too high. Looking back through my notes on my AD taper, at 10% I was fine. I know that benzos are a different beast, especially K, but I'd really like to get a decent decrease in the daily amount I take so that I'm in the 2mg range. Maybe splitting the different and going with 8% would be best (along with rounding so that I end up closer to 7% for simplification), that way I'm not likely to take as strong a hit if it is too much. I went about my decision to use 3.5mg of K as my daily dose as well. 4mg would have been safer. I was really closer to that based on PRN use, but I did not want to be that high. Yet 3mg seemed too low given my daily use would have honestly been closer to 4mg. So I split the different after giving it some thought. The price I paid was blurred vision and some mild to moderate dizziness along with the tremors which are subsiding though they have been consistent for a long time.

 

Picking the percentage to make that first cut feels like a big decision. If it's too much I can just ride it out and decrease the cut of my next dose. A lower but closer to mid point like 8% may be the best way to go with rounding in favor of bringing me closer to 7% to keep it at 7-8%. And yet, I really want to give 10% for my first cut a try. I feel like I have to see how my body handles it. Decisions. Decisions. What's the magical number?

[Nikki]

SG...it takes guts and determination to get of one med, let alone three of them. Give yourself a big pat on the back.

 

I think Sparrow is right. Getting off ad's destabilized the CNS (tremors).

 

Maybe you should stay at a steady of K for a good while just to wind down a bit.

 

Hugs

[starlitegirlx]

I am planning to hold on the K as it is until the tremors stop which will hopefully be within another month or two since they are showing signs of diminishing now at 1mo of holding with the K. I've only gone off the AD. The K is the only other one I plan to go off. I hadn't even planned to go off the K but because of the increase in usage, it became an issue, so I will be tapering off of it. But I won't begin the taper until I am stable for at least a 2 weeks. Maybe a month. I guess it depends on how long it takes to get stable. That will probably determine my taper (the longer it takes, the more likely I'll taper at a lower percent with the K). I just don't see the point in waiting through months of being stable before beginning to taper the K. Sure, it's being cautious, but at that point it begins to feel like I'm waiting for problems to arise rather than moving forward. A month to 2 months stable feels like a good time frame. Others have cut with only days or weeks of being stable. So a month seems like a good amount. It's only the AD I've come off so far. The K is next.

 

At what point does holding become counterproductive when there are other tapers, and I haven't had any issues that would make sense for me to hold. The only issues I had seem to be from the K use I added during the AD taper. I think that destabilized me much more than had I just done the AD taper and not used the K. It's hard to know at this point. But I'll assume it's for the best since I would have stayed on the K after ending the AD otherwise and the K is actually just as dangerous if not more so.

 

I just am not sure I see the benefits of holding more than a month or maybe two after stabilized.

[Jemima]

Tapering off K is a one-day-at-a-time project. I think all that people are saying is don't feel that you MUST dive right into another taper just because you feel better for a month or two. You've only been off imipramine for a bit over six months and you're probably still having some withdrawal symptoms from that in addition to the effects of varying doses of K. Starting a K taper too soon could cause further problems - but maybe not.

 

Are you still taking Tegretol?

[starlitegirlx]

I'm a few days into titration and it seems to be triggering some WD sensations now that it's mid day two. I'm taking it as I should, but perhaps this is normal getting used to the titration dose when changing from dry cuts? I think I read a few people had that problem. Not just here but at BB. I am getting the 50ml amount. I give the jar a good shake before taking the dose with the syringe, but I think there's something different between titration and the pill. Ah well, my body will have to adapt. Also means I'll likely end up holding even longer before attempting a cut. Of course I know I can handle it. I've been through so much worse on this journey. Hell and back. So if adjusting to the titration takes a bit of time, so be it. It has to be done.

 

The only thing I care about is that when I am off the K I have minimal protracted withdrawal, preferably none. So determining the best way to do that is the only thing that really matters. If it means holding longer to stabilize now before tapering the K then that is what I will do. Though I get different answers from different people regarding all of it. Lots of opinions that confuse the matter since none of this is more than following your body, finding your own way. And we've all be raised seek answers outside ourselves, but the best answers generally come from within when they aren't convoluted by WD or anxiety or other things that give us the wrong message.

 

So I will heed the advice of stabilizing for a bit. Maybe a month or two of it before cutting. Someone on BB had said to start tapering because at 3.5mg a day waiting is worse, more dangerous. I don't doubt that, but I also feel that tapering the K when I'm not stable off the AD is stupid as all hell. A few more months of 3.5mg K can't possibly make that big of an impact. If it can then by that assessment I'm already screwed, you know? And I choose to not believe that. So I'll take the safe route thank you. And when I begin my taper, I'll start at 8% with rounding that leans toward 7% so it's easier on my body. Starting at 10% seems like an unnecessary risk. 8% seems safer. If it's too high, at least the rough patch won't be as long or hellish and getting down to the best dose will be easier. Going the midpoint route with 3.5mg seemed to have been a good choice. I think I'll keep using that as my guide.

[starlitegirlx]

Tapering off K is a one-day-at-a-time project. I think all that people are saying is don't feel that you MUST dive right into another taper just because you feel better for a month or two. You've only been off imipramine for a bit over six months and you're probably still having some withdrawal symptoms from that in addition to the effects of varying doses of K. Starting a K taper too soon could cause further problems - but maybe not.

 

Are you still taking Tegretol?

 

Yes, I'm still taking tegretol and that's a sticking point with my doctor so I don't imagine being able to taper off of it. He's got that dumb belief that going off the tegretol is the worst thing ever for me and would lead to much mania despite that I never had manic episodes. He's got his DMS bible to follow, idiot that he is. And I need him for my SSDI. So that one will have to stay.

 

I know you and others are right about waiting before I taper the K. Starting a K taper too soon could be unwise. I guess having heard how bad the K is for me now has me concerned about staying on such a high dose (3.5mg) for extra months when I had been at 1m for ages and had no issues. But in the end, waiting to be steady is best. Stabilized for some months is good thing.

 

I'll give it time. I'll wait till I'm stable for a while. As much as I don't like to wait, it is best that I do. Giving my body time to recover is important. I don't want to have gone through all this to end up in some protracted withdrawal state of hell because I rushed it. So I'll take it slow and not worry that the extra time is making things worse.

 

Edited to add: the months will fly by anyway so no point in being in a rush about any of this.

[starlitegirlx]

Woke up to low level tremors today. Better than they have been in a long time, like when I first started my taper. They actually went almost entirely away before I took my morning K.

 

I think I'm stabilizing at titration now. It's probably delivering a slightly different dosage than pill cutting was, but the symptoms are close to minor and tolerable.

 

Just taking it one day at a time. Appreciating the improvements, even if it's a window, but the way I see it every window is a push forward to a better place even if a wane comes, the windows are really what matters. They are the reminders that recovery is within our grasp.