starlitegirlx: slowly tapered off Imipramine

[aza]

Hi starlightgirlx,

 

Keep up the good work, I'm so happy to hear that you are feeling better.

[Jemima]

Yes, I'm still taking tegretol and that's a sticking point with my doctor so I don't imagine being able to taper off of it. He's got that dumb belief that going off the tegretol is the worst thing ever for me and would lead to much mania despite that I never had manic episodes. He's got his DMS bible to follow, idiot that he is. And I need him for my SSDI. So that one will have to stay.

 

I asked because I didn't know what Tegritol was and looked it up. It seems to me that Tegretol can cause at least some of the problems you've thought were coming from imipramine withdrawal. Here's what I found regarding Tegretol side effects:

 

"Call your doctor right away if you notice any of these side effects:

 

<snip>

 

Lightheadedness or fainting.

 

<snip>

 

Problems with balance, walking, or speech

 

<snip>

 

If you notice these less serious side effects, talk with your doctor:<snip>

 

Dizziness, drowsiness, or unsteady on your feet

 

<snip>

 

Vision changes"

 

From PubMed Health, emphasis mine.

 

Here's the link for the above and other Tegretol information:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMHT0009439/?report=details#side_effects

 

 

I hesitated to say anything for fear of upsetting you even more, but then I decided that it was better for you to know that these symptoms are likely not due to withdrawal from imipramine or any sort of permanent brain damage.

 

I expect that you will be shocked and angry. Maybe not. But we can toss around some ideas about what to do when you feel up to it.

 

I think you're an unusually sensitive and intelligent person, even while impaired by these poisons, and I would like nothing better than to see you well and whole again.

[starlitegirlx]

 

Yes, I'm still taking tegretol and that's a sticking point with my doctor so I don't imagine being able to taper off of it. He's got that dumb belief that going off the tegretol is the worst thing ever for me and would lead to much mania despite that I never had manic episodes. He's got his DMS bible to follow, idiot that he is. And I need him for my SSDI. So that one will have to stay.

 

I asked because I didn't know what Tegritol was and looked it up. It seems to me that Tegretol can cause at least some of the problems you've thought were coming from imipramine withdrawal. Here's what I found regarding Tegretol side effects:

 

"Call your doctor right away if you notice any of these side effects:

 

<snip>

 

Lightheadedness or fainting.

 

<snip>

 

Problems with balance, walking, or speech

 

<snip>

 

If you notice these less serious side effects, talk with your doctor:<snip>

 

Dizziness, drowsiness, or unsteady on your feet

 

<snip>

 

Vision changes"

 

From PubMed Health, emphasis mine.

 

Here's the link for the above and other Tegretol information:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMHT0009439/?report=details#side_effects

 

 

I hesitated to say anything for fear of upsetting you even more, but then I decided that it was better for you to know that these symptoms are likely not due to withdrawal from imipramine or any sort of permanent brain damage.

 

I expect that you will be shocked and angry. Maybe not. But we can toss around some ideas about what to do when you feel up to it.

 

I think you're an unusually sensitive and intelligent person, even while impaired by these poisons, and I would like nothing better than to see you well and whole again.

 

The thing is that the tegretol is on an unusually low dose for this med. 300mg. And it has been at that for about 4 years. Before that it was at 400mg. I have not changed it in any way. I highly doubt any of this has come from the tegretol. I would have noticed the side effects a while ago. For now, the likely culprit has been the K since that is what was being messed around with in all sorts of regular doses and withdrawal from it most likely due to that. Getting me off all drugs is not the goal at this point. Getting me off the K and then eventually lowering the tegretol is the goal. Maybe to 200mg but not for a long while after I have stabilized off the K which who knows how long that will be, though given that my body has handled the adjustment to the 3.5mg K fairly well when I would have been much safer going with 4mg because that was closer to what I was actually taking barring about 5 or 6 days in a row twice of 3mg rounds (one before having to bump up the dose again), I think I might actually be able to get away with a 10% cut just to test the waters and see how my body handles it especially having never had a problem during those 3-4 month increases of 'as needed' use up to 3 and 4mg a day. I have the feeling that tapering the K won't be as big a problem as I fear. If it is I will adapt my taper accordingly, but I just don't think it's logical to assume the tegretol has anything to do with this since it's been stable at the 300mg dose for years and has not changed at all during this. It seems unlikely that these side effects would suddenly come out during AD WD coupled with craziness with the doses of my K to the point that it did trigger withdrawal and most especially now that I have stabilized the K dosage those symptoms have diminished almost entirely for the most part with some residual. That pretty much rules out the tegretol and being it's the least of my issues, I'm not even going to consider it for a long, long time given I've got to stabilize from AD WD and have people here tossing several months around at me as the wait period before I touch the K and the K is at an all time consistent high. Bigger fish to fry and all that leaves the tegretol out of the picture. One thing at a time. Stabilize from AD WD, then taper the K till I'm off of it. Those are the only two things on my list.

 

I do appreciate that you looked into it. I just don't feel it's the logical answer when I've been improving on a steady dose of K and there's really nothing I can do regarding the tegretol till after I'm off the K and past any protracted WD issues (should I have them) given that's much more dangerous and far more pressing. Also, those side effects generally come out at much higher doses given for epilepsy like at 600mg-1200mg. Thanks though.

[Barbarannamated]

Starlitegirl,

 

I agree with your reasoning and approach. You sound much better now than before stabilizing the K.

 

B

[starlitegirlx]

Starlitegirl,

 

I agree with your reasoning and approach. You sound much better now than before stabilizing the K.

 

B

 

Thanks Barb!

 

I've also realized that the tremors are due to WD from K. They only happening now after many hours (about 10) of absence of it in my system. So it appears that none of the symptoms I have been having are AD WD related at all since that was the only one I had not accounted for. I'm actually doing far better than I thought AD WD wise. So in a few weeks I'm going to begin my K taper since I am now convinced after careful deliberation over the matter and paying close attention to any symptoms that have occurred as to which category they fall into (K WD or AD WD) None of them match AD WD and in fact, most of them seem to perplex people here who have experience with AD WD. I'm 7 months out from AD WD and all of it was convoluted by the K. Now that the K has stabilized, I see no reason to waste time waiting for some sort of protracted AD WD. If I had it, it would have remained consistent even during the K stabilization because it would not disappear because of it. However, I seem to have improved quite a bit and before beginning titration a week ago, I was at nearly 100% improved and able to do things I hadn't been able to do in almost 10 months. When some of the symptoms reoccurred during my first several days of titration, I realized that the only change was the method of K delivery and perhaps the dose as I may be getting a bit less with titration. But that has basically passed now. So after a few more weeks I'm going to begin the K taper at 8% and see how that goes. If it's too high I'll just wait it out and lower the cut. The only actual protracted AD symptom I have had in months was neuro emotions during that time of the month, which is to be expected and allowed for as it was always a challenging time for me on meds. The only difference was that there was more raw emotion but even then, I think the K WD made it far worse as it was erratic. During my recent round it was much less dramatic and I as able to handle it much better by doing what we all have to do, hold steady, be strong, and get through it.

 

Ready for the next leg of this journey. Just giving myself a few more weeks for additional stabilization. I'd rather start sooner than later with 3.5mg of K going into my system daily. That seems a foolish risk, especially since I haven't been on a high dose so long that it would make my under 10% tapers a nightmare when just a year or two ago I was able to go up to 3-4mg a day for a few months (up to three) and then go back to 1mg with no issue. From that experience, my assessment having been able to do that for several years with zero issues, is that starting the taper sooner rather than later is fully in my best interest, especially since the K WD symptoms I had were due to some 50% and higher cuts in the dosage, and definitely well over the 10% most of the time, plus not regularly having it in my system every so many hours along with the calculations that in many cases I was averaging 30% or more in cuts as I was doing the 'as needed' thing where my dose was irregular intervals and inconsistent amounts varying quite high above the 10% recommendation. That destabilized my entire system. But now that all of that will be mitigated by regular dose timing and controlled taper under 10% I believe I'll do much better. Some rough days, some not good days and some okay days with the WD symptoms I'm already well adapted to though they'll likely worsen during part of the taper. I have to say I feel ready for this with no actual concerns or worries.

[starlitegirlx]

Continuing to do well, very well even. I'm about 90%+ improved from when I started regular doses of K. Most of the WD I had is bare minimum to gone.

 

~ Blurred vision has improved to about where it was before all this began. A random day of it being a tad worse, but still a noteworthy improvement.

 

~ Mood is much better and generally good, no neuro emotions to note though I am more emotionally sensitive during hormonal changes due to time of month.

~ Tremors subsided to basically happening after around 10 hours of not taking K. Overall, tremors are minimal, even the ones that happen after 10 hours of no K have reduced quite a bit. I notice them but they aren't even close to what they were.

 

~ Dizziness issues where I had difficulty with balance and walking and even standing are essentially gone. Very subtle trace of it at times but overall gone.

 

~ Still some tension (minor) when feeling pushed or prodded by people or situations. I avoid them. This is a sensitive area. I had a higher threshold for what I could tolerate before. Now, I have a lower threshold, but it has recovered quite a bit though I do guard it against situations and people that might cause stress increases and even anxiety or annoyance. I feel this helps my recovery when I minimize this sort of stuff.

 

I think those are all the things that I was dealing with. They have consistently improved. I could be in a window now, but since the improvement has continued over time, it feels less like a window and more like standard recovery.

 

It's nice to be able to write that there have been so many consistent days of doing better.

[Sparrow]

Really glad to read this, Starlite! Very encouraging.

 

Sparrow

[Jemima]

I'm glad to see that you're doing so much better.

[starlitegirlx]

I have a cold now. It's been one of those almost colds until last night when I could feel it beginning to become a full on one. Now I have cold symptoms. I heard some stuff about that flu that's going around, but I'm ignoring it. If I get some flu, then I get it, but for now, it's a cold and I'll help my body get the rest it needs to let it move on. I don't think I'll take anything for it since I don't really want to start adding things into my body when I don't know how it would react. Most I took before was the cold flu stuff from target but I think it had antihistamines and even some alcohol in it and I doubt those would work well with the K. So I'm just going to let it run its course.

[tezza]

I hope you feel better soon!

[starlitegirlx]

I still have a touch of a cold that comes and goes. I'm not sure what it is, but it's staying tame thankfully.

 

I'm on day 9 of my first taper of the klonopin. I am going slowly with it. Yesterday was the worst day of them all due to time of the month hormonal stuff which has been a rough time for me during most of my tapers and during the WD from the AD after I had stopped it. But today is a good day. Freezing cold out but I went to the store. So far so good.

 

Originally, my attitude was very anxious about wanting to get off the K as fast as possible while still being cautious so not to make it worse, have bad years during the tapers or even end up having to reinstate. I've been meditating (something I tend to do more during symptomatic periods because it helps me detach and accept and honestly, it feels really good - I used to meditate regularly during a few periods of my life, one of them the summer of 2011, and I became very good at getting into a wonderful meditative state so I guess the ability is still there) and that helps me stay relaxed and centered. It's also helped me with acceptance. That need to rush to get off the K isn't there anymore. I'm feeling more patient about it because I've realized that the time is going to pass anyway, so why not go easy on myself and not risk worse WD symptoms and lost periods of my life because I'm feeling so terrible that I can barely move. The thinking before was that it's a poison in my system that I have to stop taking as soon as I can, but now that I'm more fully aware of the danger going to fast causes with benzo tapers, I've decided that time is irrelevant. It flies by mostly. A month can pass and I'm stunned that it's the next month or year or decade. It's like they speed by and I don't know where they've gone. They used to drag, but once I learned how to not suffer through them and make the best of them they seem to go by much faster. So in the end, it's not the time that matters, it's the quality of life I have during that time. So if it takes me longer to taper and eventually get off the drug, then it does. Truth be told, I might have never realized the drugs were the problem and in that case I'd still be on the AD and not tapering the K and none of this would be a thought it my mind. So why does tapering fast become such an issue? Because I want to get it over with and get on with my life. Yet, if I take my time with it, I can still get on with my life and live it. It's taking it fast that caused the most symptoms and made it the worst, at least for me.

 

Anyway, I figure I'll continue with my tapers, holding as needed with no rush to some finish line. It doesn't matter when I finish. It isn't a race. It's a healing process and with this type of drug, it's best to go slower, so I will. I'd rather have it take several years that I can have some quality of life during than have it take a few that go to total hell and end up wasted and miserable. Sure, there will probably still be rough days in there, but going faster just will increase that likelihood. Going slower reduces risks and keeps me more stable. And even then, what miracles do I expect when I'm off the K? Honestly? I'll be off it. Hopefully feel and be healthier, but there's also the possibility of protracted withdrawal, which I reduce if I go slow, but how much of my life is going to change at my age with my life situation being what it is? Very little actually beyond how I feel? I don't know. It's just easier for me to accept my situation as being a long term one like I had when they told me I had to take the meds for the rest of my life. Same line of thinking but just going in a different direction with this one being that I have to taper off the meds gradually which will take years. No difference except the one in my head or what my thinking makes of it. So easy does it on me. Go at the pace my body best handles whatever percent that is for however long I need to hold after each taper. It's just not worth more pain and suffering. I've had more than enough of that already.

 

So for today, I'm doing well with my first taper on day 9, holding till I feel very comfortable that I can taper again. Rinse. Repeat. Such is life.

[Barbarannamated]

You sound great, Star.

 

It seems like your feelings of meaninglessness and wanting life to be over with (that i relate to) have subsided..? I haven't been keeping up with your benzo thread. Am i perceiving this accurately? Any thoughts about what triggered the hope?

 

B

[starlitegirlx]

You sound great, Star.

 

It seems like your feelings of meaninglessness and wanting life to be over with (that i relate to) have subsided..? I haven't been keeping up with your benzo thread. Am i perceiving this accurately? Any thoughts about what triggered the hope?

 

B

 

Actually, I think that is still there a bit but it's more like I've just accepted that this is my life. I have no control over it so I make the best of it and don't dwell upon it at all. For me, it's that once I realized this is how it is and I cannot change it, I stopped fighting it. Once I stopped fighting it, I grieved what I wanted it to be and that it wasn't that way. Then I began to accept how it is. Once you get to that point, it's like a fresh start with a different perspective. Instead of being caught up in what I want it to be, I am starting fresh where I am. Sure, I still imagine winning a lottery jackpot but I don't dwell on that not being my life. I just live day by day as it is. I do what I can to make each day as best as I can whether it's a more difficult one or an easy/nice one. I do stuff I enjoy like watch TV shows I like or meditate, nap when I feel the need, accept suffering and meditate during the difficult days. So I live in the now and don't think about past or future for the most part.

 

My sense of meaninglessness extended from looking too far into a future that I conjured in my mind based on past and present negative feelings. So that future always gave me a horrible feeling. It made it all look meaningless and not worth my time. It made me want to die to end suffering and to just get it over with. Not doing that anymore and finding what I can do during every day that I do enjoy to some extent or enjoy the most of my options really shifted things moving me from suffering to peace and content. And even though there is still a lot I would like to have in my life, I am okay that I do not have it because I have enough that makes my days enjoyable. It's really more like a mind trick. The mind will torment you if you let the worst thoughts run rampant. So you have to do what you can to avoid them and ignore them which for me is distraction (like with TV or movies or sometimes just resting in bed quietly and peacefully). Then I'm not thinking about that stuff. Right now, I'm watching scifi shows that I really like. They really pull me out of the crappy thoughts because scifi has nothing to remind me of the things that I feared or wanted. It's like stepping away from 'reality' and into fun land for me. That gave me a good amount of time to recover. Currently I'm watching Farscape ad nauseum. Next up might be Buffy the Vampire Slayer or maybe Xena or maybe Stargate Atlantis... there are so many of them. Lord of the Rings too. Matrix as well. Or even just stuff that interests me but doesn't trigger those feelings and issues and thoughts. The key is to move away from them since getting caught in them did me zero good and always made it worse since it was never like I could process and heal them like I could if it stemmed from something more tangible like not being able to work (see your thread for my post on that). Those feelings of meaninglessness stemmed from not wanting life to be as it is/was and feelings of pain and suffering associated with them along with feelings from the past and about the future that extended from how I felt in the present. Only acceptance can heal that. I would distract until I could accept. Sometimes I had to do it in little bits here and there. Over the long haul (months maybe) it added up. It was a healing and letting go process, I guess.

[starlitegirlx]

I'm currently at 3.03mg of klonopin and this is my 21st day on this dose. I'm down from 3.5mg back in Mid Jan when I made my first cut and have done two 7% cuts. One was two weeks. This one is going to be around a month or more. My WD during this taper has been totally bizarre. It hasn't followed the traditional bell curve where you get a bunch of days clumped together with increased symptoms then they taper off toward stabilization. It's been a few days of windows then two days of WD then back to the windows then WD. Each WD time the symptoms are more mild so I'm not complaining especially since I have a few days off between a few days of symptoms, but it's a weird pattern, and I think it might mean that going lower on my cuts to say 5.5% could nearly eliminate these days or make them even less symptomatic though they have been tolerable and not really enough to disturb me. I think I would just prefer not having to suffer through a taper of WD if at all possible. Already did that before I stabilized and let's just say, it sucked. No need for repeats if they are avoidable.

 

So maybe in another week I'll reduce by 5.5%. Or maybe by mid March. It depends on how stable I feel. The next cut will bring me down to 2.86mg. Under the 3mg. YAY! That's been a little goal of mine.

 

Things I've learned that are worth sharing are that sugar is the devil. Chocolate is its evil twin. Sleep is precious and lack of it triggers WD as I learned today after playing an xbox game till five in the morning. Keeping to a regular sleep schedule that gets me to sleep no later than 1am is best. Ideally sleep by midnight. I have to stay up till 11pm though because that's pill time and I tend to only sleep 7 hours or so most of the time so Midnight works out well because I wake up in time for my next dose and it keeps me on a decent schedule. Meditation also helps. Even just closing my eyes and relaxing without trying to meditate but rather calming my mind of thoughts - it seems to help especially when I have any WD symptoms. Actually, when I have them, focusing my mind on the sensations of the WD without thinking about them but just feeling them without emotional attachment but more with a curiosity of the sensation seems to work amazingly well at diminishing the WD down to its most basic essence which is a body sensation or physiological response. Doing this allows me to accept it and make peace with it which seems to take away its power over me. Just thought I would share that for others dealing with WD. Maybe it will help someone.

 

I'm wondering if the 300mg of tegretol I take is working to mitigate some of the WD symptoms. For some reason, I think it is helping just enough at the current dose with smaller tapers and longer holds. It might be just enough to keep things balanced so the WD is a bit less than it might have been. I'm curious about this because I really think there's something to it. Also wondering if the tegretol might have mitigated some of the issues benzos create. Not really sure why I suspect there's a connection other than intuition.

[Skyler]

I'm wondering if the 300mg of tegretol I take is working to mitigate some of the WD symptoms. For some reason, I think it is helping just enough at the current dose with smaller tapers and longer holds. It might be just enough to keep things balanced so the WD is a bit less than it might have been. I'm curious about this because I really think there's something to it. Also wondering if the tegretol might have mitigated some of the issues benzos create. Not really sure why I suspect there's a connection other than intuition.

Hi SG.. this post is best for the benzo sub forum, with the exception of your question about tegretol. How long you have been taking this? There is some info on the site and Alto of course can give you more info.

 

I enjoy watching your progress. and can't help but wonder if you realize just how much there has been. See you 'down below'

 

See you soon

 

Skyler

[Skyler]

I'm wondering if the 300mg of tegretol I take is working to mitigate some of the WD symptoms. For some reason, I think it is helping just enough at the current dose with smaller tapers and longer holds. It might be just enough to keep things balanced so the WD is a bit less than it might have been. I'm curious about this because I really think there's something to it. Also wondering if the tegretol might have mitigated some of the issues benzos create. Not really sure why I suspect there's a connection other than intuition.

Hi SG.. this post is best for the benzo sub forum, with the exception of your question about tegretol. I wonder how long you have been taking this. There is info on the site and Alto of course can give you more info.

 

I enjoy watching your progress. and can't help but wonder if you realize just how much there has been. See you 'down below'

 

Skyler

[starlitegirlx]

 

I'm wondering if the 300mg of tegretol I take is working to mitigate some of the WD symptoms. For some reason, I think it is helping just enough at the current dose with smaller tapers and longer holds. It might be just enough to keep things balanced so the WD is a bit less than it might have been. I'm curious about this because I really think there's something to it. Also wondering if the tegretol might have mitigated some of the issues benzos create. Not really sure why I suspect there's a connection other than intuition.

Hi SG.. this post is best for the benzo sub forum, with the exception of your question about tegretol. I wonder how long you have been taking this. There is info on the site and Alto of course can give you more info.

 

I enjoy watching your progress. and can't help but wonder if you realize just how much there has been. See you 'down below'

 

Skyler

 

I've been on the tegretol for 16+ years. Same time as all the klonopin and imipramine. Well, less with the imipramine now since I've been off it something like 8 or 9 months.

 

I do see the progress I've made. Isolating that the benzo WD was the issue was huge and people here are responsible for that. Without their help, and I think you were among that group, I would have never figured out the benzo was the problem and would still be in hell. As it stands, I'm free of the AD issues and now just tapering the klonopin. I know it's going to take a while, but I'm really trying to look at it as a journey that I'm taking. Not a destination I have to get to.

[Nikki]

Things I've learned that are worth sharing are that sugar is the devil. Chocolate is its evil twin

 

SG....that is hilarious ~ and ~ true all at the same time

 

I like to go back and read your post on acceptance. It helps to center me...Hugs

 

Glad you are feeling better.

[Altostrata]

I'm wondering if the 300mg of tegretol I take is working to mitigate some of the WD symptoms. For some reason, I think it is helping just enough at the current dose with smaller tapers and longer holds. It might be just enough to keep things balanced so the WD is a bit less than it might have been. I'm curious about this because I really think there's something to it. Also wondering if the tegretol might have mitigated some of the issues benzos create. Not really sure why I suspect there's a connection other than intuition.

This may be so. Tegretol decreases nervous system reactivity.

[tezza]

Hi Starlite,

 

I've followed your progress and just wanted to stop by and say "you've come a long way".

 

I'm glad you're doing so much better!

 

Hugs,

 

Tezza

[starlitegirlx]

Thanks Tezza and Alto.

 

Hopefully the tegretol is helpful as tapering off klonopin is something that I can use all the help I can get.

 

Rookie move today - half asleep when I woke up and accidentally took my PM dose. Having confused the days I then thought I didn't take my dose at all (thinking it was thursday instead of wed when I looked at the pill container) and took my actual AM dose. So I have no noon dose of the klonopin as I took a PM and AM dose already but I do have 1 mg klonopin dose left for tonight. Guess I'll see how the afternoon goes. At least I won't have updosed at all. Just screwed up the times for the day. On the bright side, I want to get down to taking klonopin 2x a day instead of three at some point, so this might give me a clue what that's like though it won't be accurate since there are two mitigating factors which are 1) I took a double dose this morning which may carry over into the afternoon and 2) it's that time of the month and my hormones are out of whack and triggering WD effects which may add to any interdose WD, but I'm going to remain focused on how it is only one day and ultimately my dose for the day remained the same. Worst effect from it will be a rough patch this afternoon.

 

Meanwhile, I moved my PM meds to the other side of the bed on the opposite nightstand. And wow, do I feel drugged right now. Holy hell. Here's hoping the doubling of the AM dose mitigates interdose WD to some degree.

[Skyler]

See my response in the sub forum. Yup.. and not necessarily rookie mistake, just a dozy one. Sounds familiar!

[Sparrow]

How are you doing, Starlite?

 

Sparrow

[starlitegirlx]

Well enough, sparrow. Thanks for asking.

 

Getting ready to make the next taper in about 5 days. Doing only 5% cuts and holding for a month. I've resided myself to the fact that it's going to take years and there's nothing I can do about that other than make it as easy on myself as possible by going slowly with smaller cuts than I had originally hoped for. So I'm not really thinking about it now. Just dealing with whatever symptoms I have and then when they are stabilized I make the next cut. I guess in a way, I've just sort of accepted it as how my life is now rather than fighting it or feeling bad about it. I think I just don't care about it anymore. It is as it is. Nothing I can do about it. Kind of how I resided myself to having to take the meds or that I was bipolar though I don't even know if that's true anymore. But this way, I just do what I need to and don't give it any more energy or thought than it deserves. And I aim to not look at how long it will take because if I hadn't used the K as a prn, I wouldn't have been in this situation and would have kept at 1mg for the rest of my life. But who knows how that would have been for me in the long run? Decades on that stuff, you know? So maybe how it all happened with me ending up at 3mg now and tapering down and off them at some point years in the future is better.

 

So I guess I've just accepted my situation and don't really care about it anymore other than doing what I need to do to take care of myself. If there are rough times then so be it. I'll just deal with them as they happen.

 

How are you doing?

[tezza]

I like your way of thinking, I agree, 'it is what it is'. That's the way I've been thinking too. It will take as long as it takes, there's no need to 'borrow trouble'.

 

Hugs and healing

[starlitegirlx]

I like your way of thinking, I agree, 'it is what it is'. That's the way I've been thinking too. It will take as long as it takes, there's no need to 'borrow trouble'.

 

Hugs and healing

 

Thanks Tezza. Yes, there is no need to borrow trouble.

 

Today I make my next cut. Cut #3. This time it's only going to be 5% which will bring me down to 2.868mg of K. I'm happy to think that only back in Oct/Nov I was still bouncing around 4-6mg a day and now I'm half the average of that. But today starts the slow and cautious taper at 5% a month. I'll be holding for the month at each cut, baby stepping it to mitigate lags and WD as much as possible. In the next cut or two I'll be moving from taking it 3x a day to 2x a day to keep it simple. Since I've gotten away with around 9-10 hours without interdose WD, I'm hoping that means it will not be a big issue. But I will only make the switch after I'm stabilized at whatever dose I'm at for a bit. First I'm going to just taper the after noon dose so that my body adapts to less at that point until around somewhere between 2.6-2.7 mg. Interdose WD probably won't be easy, but I think that with a 12 hour half life it should be doable. Also, I think since the dose will remain the same during that time but just moved with no net effects during the 24 hour period, it shouldn't be bad. Just a matter of adaptng to the longer times between doses.

 

Hopefully the lowering of my tapers by 2% will make a big difference in WD symptoms which have not been bad but have still had an effect on daily functioning. I really want to mitigate lag issues and WD issues and give my brain time to heal between tapers so going slowly seems safest and wisest at this point. I might even add in a few extra holds if lag comes up though I think at 5% it will be less likely.

[Sparrow]

Sounds like you're doing pretty well, Starlite. Very encouraging!

 

Rooting for you,

Sparrow

[starlitegirlx]

I think dropping to 5% is key for me. Smaller cuts means less WD symptoms. So far things are good. It's not even a full week but my body appears to be handling it well for now. I figure it will continue that way. I'm not really concerned about how fast I get off the Klonopin just that the journey is smooth or as smooth as I can make it while still cutting at a reasonable rate.

[tezza]

Starlite,

 

You're doing well....just don't get in a hurry. You are intelligent and I'm sure you will continue with caution.

 

Love,

Tezza

[starlitegirlx]

Thanks Tezza. I'm going to stay at a slow rate. The price of a faster one or larger cuts isn't worth it. 5% is good. Where I am now, 5% has me down 1mg of K per day by around the end of the year or so. One year for 1mg is worth it to me especially if it's not a year of hellish WD. The more I can reduce the symptoms, the better off I am which means going slowly and with small tapers. I think the month hold is good because it allows for lag or I would hope it does to a large degree though there maybe be times that I have to hold if there is a lag. But even then, nothing is worth the price of today being better (and even with hopes that if today is better then when I'm off, because I went slower, I might not have protracted WD). Getting off of any drug faster just for the sake of getting off of it faster or because we feel it's dangerous becomes absurd if once you get off it you have protracted WD because you came off it too fast or if you have a horrible taper then protracted WD because you went to fast. There's just no logic or sense in that. And definitely no point unless the point is to add to your suffering.

 

The way I see it - sure, I may have nearly 3mg of K in my body every day. But some people have more. And if I race to get off it too fast, what is that going to prove? The damage will be done by the speed of the taper and my body won't have time to adapt. I'll suffer all the way off it and then after I'm done for how many years? But that same time could be used to go at a slower pace where I'm no suffering or miserable and maybe even where I get back some of the abilities I lost. That makes a slow taper more beneficial for many reasons. Rushing then becomes absurd and honestly, foolish.

[tezza]

Hi starlite,

 

I agree 100%, and am trying to go very slowly for the same reason. The protracted withdrawal is frightening. If we can avoid suffering along the way it will be better in the end, too, I believe.

 

You're doing a great job and dealing with this very well.

[starlitegirlx]

Have been doing well. Joined a gym after a few 20-30 minute walks outside that were too cold to keep it up without a gym. I used to do cardio and weight train regularly until I got sick with withdrawals. This week for the first time in over a year I weight trained and walked 40 minutes a few times. I know this klonopin taper is going to take years. At least three if I taper between 5-7% at approximately a month for each cut. So I'm trying to work back to living my life rather than being stuck in some sort of time vacuum where it's all WD 24/7/365. The last year of my life was literally wasted. I gained 40 lbs from being so immobile and eating a lot at times which I'm not sure if it's some kind of craving thing from high doses of klonopin or what, but it's insane. Most of the weight gain was during 'stable' times in the past several months. Sedentary and stable, not exercising and craving food constantly. I think that it's connected to the klonopin. No, I'm sure it is.

 

Well, today I started at 2.704mg after doing well with the 5% cut and having no noteworthy WD but the rare day of some tremor stuff. Almost forgot my afternoon dose today and took it almost 3 hours late. That is a good sign for when I switch from taking it 3x a day to 2x a day. I'll probably do it after I'm stable at this dose. Seems like the best option. Lately, I get that drugged tired feeling after taking the afternoon dose. I think my body is telling me to switch to two doses and it will adapt.

 

Yay for the gym workouts. They've felt great. And I think they are helping with recovery. This week was a good one.

[tezza]

Great news, starlite! It sounds like you're doing really good! Thanks for sharing!

[Sparrow]

Yay Starlite! It's great to hear that you're doing well.

 

Sparrow

[starlitegirlx]

Thanks Sparrow! I've adopted the attitude that I refuse to push fast on the taper if it means I will end up 'losing quality of life' for it. As much as I want to get off this drug, I went through hell already. So I'll tinker with the taper a percent higher maybe. I'll see how my body handles it. But I will listen and when I get symptoms that to me are a warning sign like that dizzy feeling or balance stuff or blurry vision - those are key to me that I'm tapering to fast. For me they're precursors that mean it will get worse if I don't back off. They work in reverse too. As I come out of heavy WD those are most notable and severe beyond the other stuff. As the other symptoms improve, they do to but they are the last to fully improve. So using them as a sign of how my taper is headed is like watching for red flags. See one or two of them and that means it's hold time or reduce the cut percent. It's made a difference since I follow this method.

 

It'll be years before I'm where you are - at that dose, but if it's a smooth or mostly smooth journey then the years won't matter. Honestly, I'd have kept taking the klonopin for the rest of my life if I hadn't had discovered how dangerous and addictive it is after I was done with my imipramine taper. So in the long run, if I think of it like that - that I would have kept taking it anyway, then I can skirt around the 'years' issue so long as I can keep it so that those years don't feel like years of WD.

[starlitegirlx]

I've shifted my focus to exercising on the days that I can (no WD symptoms and not sore from a previous workout). I've been doing 30-40 minutes on the treadmill with 4% inclines for about 20 minutes when I'm up for it and started adding weight lifting at the end of last week. Legs first. Then chest/shoulders/triceps next time I did weights. Wed was Legs and back/biceps. It was intense but more because I'm out of shape and heavier than I was when I last lifted. I tried to not push it but still got a great workout. Sore two days later but not overly sore. Since I just started back, this is actually normal. Exercising has probably been the one thing that I've really felt good about doing since my tapers and subsequent WD began. I had to buy XL workout clothes this last week since what I used to wear is too snug and not comfortable to wear. I never imagined I'd gain this much weight from the taper but I think it was from the increased klonopin which seems to trigger an increased appetite when I'm not exercising (since it has normalize since I've started) and from being totally sedentary. Never saw that coming. But now I have to push forward and make my life about more than tapering off the klonopin and getting through the days. I want to get back to better health and be fit or at least fairly fit again. And I don't see that as an impossible goal. It may take time, but I think it's possible. Plus, I think the exercise helps me feel better mood wise and physically.

 

I think exercising regularly (though not during WD days) will help a lot with my healing. Even Matt Samet feels that his regular walks with his dog helped quite a bit. His book was quite good though I was mostly interested in his WD experience with the benzos and ADs the idiot docs put him on and less so with the climbing stuff. He's almost 100% recovered from a nearly C/T quit of some major ADs and benzos - a very convoluted med history with addiction and abuse mixed into it. So if he can recover nearly 100% (though it took him 7 years or so but he was C/T with a crazy med history) that gives me hope.