Mcat: reinstated Mirt, now coming down again

[Mcat]

Thanks, everyone. I really appreciate your input and sharing your methods, and I read it all in detail and try to get my head around it, but at a certain point, my brain shuts down. I realise my inability to get across this stuff must be annoying to those who find it doable, and believe me, I wish I could as I'd love to take control of this 100% and taper with full agency and less expense, but I think I will have to get liquid compounded and try to get advice from the chemist re how to calculate my drops as I'd like to take it real slow.

 

I might try either the 2% daily for 5 days then hold or the 5% drop every 3 weeks method (have to stay functional and stable as possible for work).

 

My local compounding chemist can do it at a starting dose (my current dose) of 7.5mg/ml - they say it lasts a month in the fridge. So, if I'm coming down 5-10% per month, what size bottle/total ml will I need every month? I've also seen posts where people say the liquid is stronger than the pill, and as I'm already pretty knocked out by 7.5 in pill form, do you think I should reduce by 2% for my transition to liquid and hold there for a couple of weeks (to adjust to new delivery) before continuing taper? 

[Altostrata]

You get the same bottle every month. You do the calculations and titrate it with an oral syringe, taking only what you need.

 

 

Tips for tapering off mirtazapine (Remeron)

Using an oral syringe and other tapering techniques
How to use oral syringes, gelatin capsules, powdered tablets, and do-it-yourself liquid solutions

 

Questions and answers about liquid medications

How to calculate dosages of liquids and other tips

 

 

[Mcat]

Thanks for these links. Yes, I'll have to work out with the chemist what the best base bottle mg/ml dosage will be (e.g., easiest to calculate tapers down from - if there is such a thing) before I get the GP to write the script.

 

One more quick question for anyone with Mirt knowledge: I know it's individual to some degree, but is there a trending pattern for when the WD is worse after a drop? I've heard the first few days and after 5 days variably on this site, but I can't recall if those are med-specific. This matters for me as I need to be as functional mid-week as possible and take my worst hits to the degree that I have any choice in the matter, Fri-Sun.

[Altostrata]

A handy concentration of mirtazapine liquid would be 1mg drug in 1mL liquid. To take 7.5mg, you'd take 7.5mL. If it needs to be concentrated, perhaps 5mg drug in 1mL liquid. You'd need the tiny 2mL oral syringe to take your dose.

 

Given mirtazapine's half-life of 20 to 40 hours, withdrawal symptoms are most likely to start about 4-10 days after a dosage decrease.

[Mcat]

Thanks a million, Alto - that's super useful! I'm feeling positive now about the taper and that I will stabilise after drops (since I did this time) and I feel like I have arrived at the best plan of action for me thanks to the help of everyone here, enabling me to think through the options in an informed way. This website is gold, and I'm very grateful for it. 

[Mcat]

I'm making some progress: the chemist has confirmed they can do 1mg Mirt to 1ml so I now need to go the doctor to ask for a script. I'm a unsure how I'll get the exact right dose; I've been looking at oral syringes and presume this 10ml will be about right for me till I get lower down in dosage: https://www.amazon.com.au/10ml-Syringe-Caps-10-pcs/dp/B08R2PJX98/ref=asc_df_B08R2PJX98/?tag=googleshopdsk22&linkCode=df0&hvadid=500703188112&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7678777082846383880&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9071841&hvtargid=pla-1211367278309&psc=1 - is that right?

 

I'm also wondering if I round up or down, e.g., my first drop, once I adjust to the liquid will be 10% from 7.5 = 6.75, which seems tricky to get on the syringe, so I round down to 6.5, yes?

 

I've done calculations based on 10% drops and they get hard to understand, e.g.:

6.075

5.4675

4. 92075

 

So I'm thinking the below schedule might be easier for me even if it's a bit different:

6.5 (rounded down from 6.75 for ease of dosing)
6
5.5
5
4.5
4
3.5
3

 

It'll take 8 months of tapering to get down to 3, which is a bore, but this is not going to be a fast process however I cut it, and the simpler and easier I can make it, the better for my mental health. I'd appreciate confirmation from people with experience in liquid tapering, though, before I steam ahead with this plan. 

[Faure]

Sounds like you’re making good progress. Well done!

 

You absolutely *must not* do these drops:

6.5 (rounded down from 6.75 for ease of dosing)
6 = 7% drop
5.5 = 8.3% drop
5 = 9.1% drop
4.5 = 10% drop
4 = 11% drop
3.5 = 12.5% drop

 

the percentage gets bigger and bigger with each drop and will very likely cause WD effects that will impact your ability to function and probably cause you to have to miss work. It might be easier calculate, but I don’t think you’ll find it easy when you’re hit with WD! You want the percentage to stay the same for each drop. I.e. 10%.
 

You are on SA a looking for advice. The advice is no more than 10% of the most recent dose every 4 weeks. Read here for more details on that.  If you don’t follow the advice and get  ill there is nothing we can do. There is no known “cure” for nasty WD effects. 

If you want to do 10% every 4 weeks then have a look at this spreadsheet. 
 

As staying well for work is so important then you might prefer the BrassMonkey slide which is a much gentler way to taper. You can find that spreadsheet here 

 

Regarding rounding you follow the usual rounding rules.
 

To get exact dosing you will need to get various size syringes and combine doses to get the exact dose. So the larger syringe for example may get you 7mls and the smaller one will get you the .75

 

Regarding how long it will take, if you can manage 10% every 4 weeks then it will take around 3 years to get off. There is no fast way.  

 

As numbers are so hard for you you’re probably going to enlist local help. Anyone you know that’s good at maths should be able to help ☺️

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Faure

[Mcat]

Sorry, I was forgetting the % gets bigger the further down you go. And yes, it really can’t be overstated how bad I am at maths, which is why (apart from the WD) this is so difficult and stressful for me. I’ll go see the chemist in person and see if they can give me a tutorial how to get the dosing right using various syringes. And thanks - I do like the look of the Brassmonkey slide, but want off sooner if it’s possible because if the jerks , plus that method requires more calculations/dosages and you can see why I’d try to avoid that. Plan is to try the 10% drop and keep that as a backup if needed. It's all so complicated and I regret the day I ever went on this med. 

[Altostrata]

You would always round UP on the dosage you'd take, err on the side of a smaller decrease rather than a larger one. 

[Mcat]

Thanks for the reality check re length of taper @Faure and in light of that I'm now thinking I should go back to the power weighing till I'm down to a lower number plan because I only have job/financial security for this year and can't be sure at present that I can afford $90 a month for liquid compounding ongoing. Sigh. It's a saga even settling on a plan. So, I'm now drawing on the info you have provided re how to do the powder/capsule taper and am buying a bunch of stuff to make that happen. It will be a challenge to get my head around the numbers, but I think I now have *just* enough of a handle on it to make it work, and as you say, this way I am more independent and can be sure I can continue my taper down to much lower figures, which I won't be at for quite some time, regardless of my financial situation. 

[Faure]

I’m glad to hear you are settling on a plan. Well done!  You do realise that the spreadsheets I linked to do all the numbers for you? 

 

You will find that the tablet weighs a lot more than 15mg (mine weigh 152mg of which 15mg is the active ingredient and the rest is filler) This is bound to do your head in when you get to it!  When all the stuff has arrived and you’re ready to make a start let me know and I can offer some help. ☺️

[Mcat]

Yes, and that's a great help - it's the difference between the active ingredient weight and pill weight that throws me (as well as learning how to use the digital scale), but I'm compiling all the info you've given me and anything else relevant to the process I can find here and I think I'm starting to get my head around it enough to work it out. I'll just have to do some tests and trials when the gear arrives - might post some pics here of my results to check I'm on the right track before I start taking caps. I appreciate your willingness to help; it's a great comfort to know you have blazed the Mirt capsule taper trail!

[Mcat]

So, after an excellent week of feeling calm despite lots of work and sleeping like a baby, I was back to a patchy night last night. Sleep got slowly worse since Sat, but still okay till last night when I had my classic sleep maintenance insomnia pattern of 3-5 hrs solid sleep before waking up wired in wee hours. I had an iron infusion on Sunday because my iron was very low and I can't tolerate oral iron so that could have done something (I usually have it with vit C, but didn't do that as I'd read here that can induce Mirt WD), or perhaps it's that work stress has gotten the better of me the last few days. Anyway, I'll have to give stabilising more time before I can start the taper. Sigh.

[Faure]

You asked a few things via private message that I will respond to here. Please note that I am unable to respond to private messages.

 

You have said that your sleep is improving and has been pretty good the past few nights and you feel you are soon ready to taper.  I would suggest you wait for at least 2 weeks of solid sleep and stability, and if it were me, I might wait up to 4 weeks to be really sure.  I’m very pleased to hear stability is starting to happen, well done for waiting it out and not panicking. 
 

You asked whether I started the BrassMonkey slide at first and the answer is yes. I had been very unwell last time I tried tapering and wanted the best chance of success. When I said on here I was ready to taper using the 10% every 4 weeks I was recommended to do the slide, so I did. The last thing I wanted was to be crying that I wished I’d done the slide rather than the 10% drops!

 

If you wish to share pictures of what you are doing regarding weighing etc please share them in your thread so others can have input as well. 
 

I’m very glad you are feeling better. That’s great news. 
 

I see you are on HRT. Are you finding it a help?  I am perimenopausal and get extremely fatigued just before my period. Having been tired for the past 3-4 years because of mirtazepine, I really don’t want to now be tired because of lack of hormones.  I am wondering whether HRT might help overcome this problem….anything you have to say about it would be very helpful for me. In the UK we experience shortages of it so I am quite wary of becoming dependent on yet something else.  (The country seems to be falling apart 🙄)

 

[Mcat]

Hi Faure, sorry for going private - I assumed you might be okay with that since, at some point, you suggested I might contact another member that way. I've had very solid 8+ sleeps for about 2 weeks now, apart from one night of waking up after around 5 hours where I got up for some time and then caught more light sleep later to a total of 7.

 

The reason I am keen to get going sooner rather than later is a) the jerks; they've not been too bad, but they are around, and they make me want to get down lower sooner, and b) I have a work break coming up (which I can't control - I'm locked into semester workloads) and I thought it might be best to take advantage of that for the first drop. I've been thinking I might try a 10% drop and see how that goes. I plan to go slower and safer than that at some point, but again because of the jerks and because, in the past, I have been able to sleep fairly well on 3.75 (though not as reliably as I have on 7.5), I'm thinking maybe doing 2-3 10% - if I can tolerate them - would help me get closer to that sooner and then I can go to the slide and at some point as I'm getting further down also switch to liquid (when it becomes too tricky to weigh the powder). 

 

As to HRT, Lordy, that's a whole other complex business. Short answer is yes: it helps. I am 8 yrs post-menopausal, so I don't take it for classic menopause symptoms like hot flashes. I take it because I found my immunity got more feeble, and my anxiety worsened when I was flatlined on all the hormones. I started with E3 patches when I was about 6 yrs post-menopausal and then added micronised Progesterone in more recently. The oestrogen improves resilience to infection and a general sense of well-being - it's also said to help for sleep in people at my stage of life, but I've not noticed huge benefits on that front (perhaps my dose is too low); I'm seeing more benefit from Progesterone re sleep (but it's not likely to be enough to counter the Mirt WD insomnia). I think for where you are - perimenopause - which I personally found gruelling, it's very hard because doctors mostly won't give you HRT, and also you don't necessarily want it in that often what's happening then is your Progesterone is declining pretty sharply while your oestrogen is all over the shop, peaking at higher than average some days and plummeting on others (I know this because I got bloods done obsessively during that period and also from research I've done since). This is why it's such a hard process because nothing is stable, and you're just kind of thrown around it in and trying to get your bearings from day to day. I expect the fatigue comes when you're very low. You could get bloodwork done to try and get a picture of what happening, but it's not very reliable (for reasons mentioned above). I personally never found anything that helped with perimenopause much apart from St John's Wort, which helped a bit with sleep and anxiety (but I don't think I'd recommend it as it requires slow tapering because coming off it too fast early last year after being on for many years was the start of where I am today). Also, not an option while on Mirt due to the risk of Serotonin Syndrome. 

[Mcat]

PS: the other reason I was thinking of starting with a couple of 10% drops is that it gives me time to get used to the process of weighing etc., before moving to a method that is more intensive on that front. 

[Faure]

It sounds like you’ve thought this through and if a work break is coming up then it’s a good time to try it. I suspect you might find the days after a drop rough but as your body adjusts it may become easier. I wouldn’t know as I’ve not done 10% drops. I do remember 3-4 nights after my very first drop (of 0.4mg) I had a dreadful night with only about 3 hours sleep and I was out the next day feeling dreadful because of lack of sleep. That was actually the worst thing I experienced.  Overall sleep was hard at times, generally in weeks 3, 4, 5 of the slide. The other weeks were better. Now I’m so low all weeks are similar and I seem to be more affected by time of the month. I imagine with the 10% WD all happens in the first week or two and then things settle down…I’ll be interested to hear how you get on. 
 

Whatever method you do the really important thing is to commit and not let WD symptoms put you off course. Especially not increasing the dose to try to fine tune things. If you’ve done a drop, it’s best to stick to it and if necessary take more time before the next one. 
 

Thanks for your thoughts on HRT.  It’s actually ‘all the rage’ in the UK as it’s had some menopausal celebs banging the drum for it!  So getting it prescribed isn’t a problem but actually getting hold of the product is tricky! I might see what the chemist has to say about supply issues. 

[Mcat]

Thanks, much appreciated. This will actually be my fourth time coming off Mirt - I was on it for 6 months (15mg) while on a heavy medical treatment that had a severe side effect of insomnia almost 20 years ago, and would you believe I came off it cold turkey right after I finished treatment. Went a bit mad for some weeks and did have a few rough weeks of sleep, but then came good - unimaginable to me now (especially as I was pretty fragile and my CNS had been through the wringer with the other treatment). And once early last year, after I'd only been on 3.75 a short time and switched to another AD (on GP advice) and then back again, and, of course, the failed attempt earlier this year.

 

Earlier this year, I did get some high anxiety along with WD insomnia, and the jerks got worse (before getting better and seeming to resolve), but the insomnia was the real killer. So, yes, I expect some, but I'm hoping it's at least manageable/bearable. I will definitely hold the line once I drop.

 

This last time, when I came down from sliding around between 7.5 and 15 to 7.5 it was exactly as you said: 2 rough weeks and then stabilising. I hope that pattern continues till I'm down around where you are. I expect it to get tougher going then. Can I ask how the sleep WD is currently on your 3.2?

[Faure]

My sleep is fine. Sometimes it takes up to an hour to get to sleep but then I stay asleep. Recently my ability to doze has returned which has been great ☺️
 

Occasionally after a drop I might wake up around 5 and not be able to get back to sleep but I now force myself to lie there and rest till about 7! If I get up too early I get tired pretty soon after getting up🙄

[Mcat]

Okay, so I did the big trial experimentation with the gear today. I followed your tips and others I've found here and kicked off by calibrating. Then, for a start, I weighed a full 15mg pill = 0.154g and then half = 7.5mg = 0.077g. When I repeated these, there were a couple of slight variables, but I settled on this because when I weighed 7 pills (see first pic) and divided them by 7, I came up with an average of 0.154 per pill, so it fits.

 

I also weighed a couple of halves (which I've been splitting as accurately as possible with a pill cutter to get my 7.5 dose as they only sell 15 pills here), which proved that, as suspected, they aren't exactly even despite looking near exact and my best efforts, e.g., one would weigh 0.076 and the other 0.078. 

 

Encouraged by my seeming success with getting that far, I wanted to try powering a half pill and weighing to the dose of my first drop (not to start today, just as practice), but then I ran into trouble. If I'm on the right track and following instructions correctly, 7.5mg/0.077g minus 10% = 0.0693g, but I don't understand why there's now an extra 0 in the mix and can't be sure that's the same as the 6.75mg that's automatically calculated in the Taper spreadsheet (having entered my starting dose). I wouldn't even know how to calculate whether these match up, as this is the kind of thing that does my head in. 

 

And then an even more perplexing thing happened: when I powdered the 0.075 half I had at hand (aiming to weigh first and then reduce by 10%) the scales showed 2.376 / 2.380 / 2.375 variably on several different attempts (I turned the scale off in between) and that totally broke my brain, so I thought I'd give up for the day and ask for guidance here. 

 

I put the powdered half in a capsule for storage and took a couple of pics of the powder left on the scale tray and the mortar as I wanted to check if this is normal and acceptable. I can't see how you can get all of it off with the kind of tool you need to get it into a capsule, but as I write that, I remember reading a suggestion to put the powder in a piece of paper and pour it into the capsule that way. Makes sense, but surely some bits will still be left on the paper. Anyway, I'd appreciate any insight anyone might have about what went on when I put the powdered half in and what might have made it go haywire (or what I've misunderstood). 

[Faure]

Well done for making a start on this.  Unfortunately I am not the person to give maths advice because I’m pretty bad at it myself. 
 

 @brassmonkey @Gridley can you give advice?  Incidentally there is an issue with the spreadsheets SA provides in that the figures are in mg and all the scales weigh in grams. This causes difficulties for those of us that are “number impaired”….because what we see on the scale doesn’t match what the spreadsheet says….is there any way this can be addressed? 

 

General thoughts I can offer:

Don’t waste time weighing halves! You will be dealing with whole pills that you grind up to make new pills.  

 

Don’t weigh what you don’t want I.e. 0.075g. Weigh what you do want I.e. 0.068g.  The weights involved are tiny and you’ll only decrease accuracy adding extra unnecessary steps. When you start you will want to grind up enough pills to get a week’s worth of powder, remembering you will lose powder on the way so grind up more than you need. Keep whatever is spare in a capsule for next time. 

 

Regarding your 4th paragraph it looks like you forgot to “tare” the scale when you put the measuring tray back on and weighed both that and the powder. Bear in mind you will lose powder at all stages - in the grinding process, in the weighing pan, in the paper you use to transfer between the weighing tray and the capsule. So don’t reweigh things over and over because you will get different answers.  Weigh once, trust you did it right (provided your method is sound) and move on. Don’t worry about powder left over in the grinding process or on the paper. You’ll lose some this way every time and this leads to consistency. You’ll always be losing about the same amount. 

Edited April 2, 2023 by Faure

[Gridley]

@Faure I'm afraid my math isn't good either.  Brassmonkey is great at this but I don't think he's back on the site after his trip.

[Mcat]

Thanks, @Faure - I definitely don't plan to be weighing halves etc in general; I was just mucking around to get a feel for things (and was curious to know just how far from accurate my split halves have been). 

 

You said: 'Regarding your 4th paragraph, it looks like you forgot to “tare” the scale when you put the measuring tray back on and weighed both that and the powder.' - this sounds like it might be what happened because I calibrated with the tray on, but then had to take it off to get the powder in. I don't understand the tare feature, but I'll go back to the booklet and see if I can get a handle on it. I had to read the calibration instructions a couple of times because all this is like speaking another language to me, so hopefully, I can get a grasp. Damn, I need someone good at maths in my life, and I just don't seem to know any (surrounded by artistic types with brains like mine that don't work that way). 

 

And yes, I understand about the scales in g our drops in mg challenge, but I read some instructions from Alto on the taper thread where she said it's easier to just deduct the drop % from the g weight, which makes sense to me, but where I stumble is that if my starting point is 0.077 and I minus 10%, how do I end up with  0.0693g on the calculator, which is five instead of four figures; is it because the further you go down, the longer the numbers get? 

 

Alto also gave a link to a gram/mg calculator on that page, and I tried working it out there but got even more confused (see screenshot), which again doesn't look like the 6.75mg 10% drop noted on the spreadsheet. It would be wonderful if someone who knows how could add a column to that spreadsheet that shows the drop in g and mg. I also plugged my 0.077g starting point into this same calculator, and once again, the mg reading doesn't come out to 7.5, so, yeah, baffled by this aspect of the calculations.

[brassmonkey]

Hi Mcat. Your big experiment and Faure's explanation of what went wrong are spot on. Except for misusing the little metal dish you did things correctly. Using a folded piece of paper is a good trick, Just don't clean the paper. The little bit that sticks will remain constant after the first use.

 

When reading the scales the number the left of the decimal point is in grams, while the three numbers to the right represent milligrams. That is where the extra zero came from. So 69mg would read 0.069 on the scale, while 125mg would read 0.125.

 

Now that you have calculated what a half dose is (75mg or 0.075) there is no need to measure it again. If there are more numbers, such as 0.0753, the final 3 does not count and gets rounded according to normal rounding rules.

 

Calculate your 10% reduction off of the entire dose weight including the whole tablet but remove the weight from the powdered part of the dose. Old dose weight X 0.9 then subtract the average weight of a whole tablet to get the weight of the powder you need for the new dose.

 

Crush up several tablets at a time and use them as a stockpile of material from which you measure out just what you need.

 

@Gridley I'm not officially back yet, got quite sick on the trip and need a while to recover.

[rmce72a]

@brassmonkey I follow every bit of advice you have to offer including your micro taper which I am currently using. Just wanted to say welcome home, and I am sorry that you fell ill on your trip. Hope all is going well and you recover quickly. xo Rebecca

[Mcat]

Thanks so much for weighing in @brassmonkey; I am honoured to have the input of the guru of calculations, and sorry to hear you're poorly. I really appreciate your explanation re the longer number and dropping the 3 at the end.

 

I understand you might not be up for more discussion on this, but if you are, I wonder if you can help me better understand the following. 

 

When I weighed 7 pills (see first pic) and divided them by 7, I came up with an average of 0.154 per pill and 0.077g (half of 0.154) as my half-pill starting point for tapering, which seemed to be the right calculation but doesn't seem to = 7.5mg on the g/mg calculator and the corresponding 0.0693g 10% drop calculation doesn't match what's on the tapering spreadsheet. However, when I calculate 10% off 0.075, I get 0.0675, which seems to match the 6.75mg on the spreadsheet perfectly; 0.075 would appear to be the right starting point, BUT it doesn't calculate as half of 0.154 (I get 0.077 on the calculator). I'm not grasping how this can be as 0.154 did seem to be the right weight of a pill whether I weighed them singly or in a batch of 7. 

 

You also wrote: "... remove the weight from the powdered part of the dose. Old dose weight X 0.9 then subtract the average weight of a whole tablet to get the weight of the powder you need for the new dose." Can you clarify that or say it for dummies as I'm not following.

 

Even though I'm still struggling to get on top of all this, I am feeling a bit proud of myself because I am both a massive maths fail and a bit maths-phobic as a result and tackling this is a Very Big Adulting Step for me. If anyone good at maths is willing to be a one-on-one mentor, I'd be very up for seeing if there's scope for some kind of trade.

[Faure]

Thanks @brassmonkeyfor getting involved when you’re not well. I’ll leave maths questions for him. 
 

A few points.

1. Don’t use the weighing tray when calibrating. The instructions don’t say to do that (at least mine don’t). It’s very important you follow instructions exactly and don’t try to “improve” things with your own ideas 😜 NB my instructions say you put the 2nd weight on top of the first when the scale asks for it.
2. When you turn on the scales leave them for 1 minute for the internal bits to warm up. Don’t turn them off and on hoping to get a different answer. 
3. The tare feature is useful because once you put on the weighing tray you just press tare and the scale resets to zero so you are not weighing the tray. 
4. When I get close to the target weight I pick up the weighing tray and tap it with my teaspoon to get all the powder into the middle. I do this a few times when approaching the weight.  Once it’s at the weight I might do one more tap to be sure. Then accept it’s as ‘right’ as it will ever be, transfer the powder into the capsule and move on. 
5. A lot of your confusion stems from you not understanding rounding numbers in maths. I think you’d benefit from a review of the rounding rules. There is a very basic introduction here.  Just imagine there is a 0. in front of the numbers and it will give you the idea. Here’s one for older children about decimals including a quiz to practise 😂
    

5 hours ago, Mcat said:

remove the weight from the powdered part of the dose. Old dose weight X 0.9 then subtract the average weight of a whole tablet to get the weight of the powder you need for the new dose.

I think this just means grind up a load of pills (say 4-5) and then make them up from this powder. As per my original instructions to you. 
 

If half a pill weighs 0.077g then put that into the spreadsheet as your starting dose and I think that’s all you need to know. The spreadsheet will do the rest. You can set spreadsheets to do just 3 decimal places and then you won’t have to get into rounding.  Here’s how to for Windows.  If you’ve Mac then a Google search will take you to the right place.  

 

Well done with all this Adulting!!  When you first arrived there was absolutely no way you were going to do any numbers at all and now look at you!!!

[Mcat]

Haha, yes, well, my mind is being stretched in many ways by this experience, and thanks ever so for those explanations and links - very helpful. I can assure you that I'm not arrogant enough with things of this nature to imagine I could improve upon the wisdom here, so anything I do that is off-script is purely accidental and not because I think I can outsmart the system. I am the embodiment of humility on this front (which balances up the fronts where I am confident and self-assured  ).

 

I was so overwhelmed with everything going on it didn't even occur to me to calibrate with the tray on or off (pretty sure I did it with the tray on, and I now wonder if that's how I ended up with my numbers off-kilter, e.g., 0.077 instead of the 0.075 Brassmonkey mentioned (that matches with the 6.75mg dose of my first drop as per spreadsheet), but that doesn't seem like enough of a difference. Anyway, I'll calibrate without the tray next time and start from scratch.

 

Just one quick question about what you said about taking the tray off and tapping to get the powder into the middle - so it's okay to take the tray on and off while the scale is on, then? I wasn't sure about that. The scale seems to switch off very quickly (with the backlighting going out), which surprised me (and is annoying). I hope I didn't get a dud one. 

[Faure]

5 hours ago, Mcat said:

Just one quick question about what you said about taking the tray off and tapping to get the powder into the middle - so it's okay to take the tray on and off while the scale is on, then? I wasn't sure about that. The scale seems to switch off very quickly (with the backlighting going out), which surprised me (and is annoying). I hope I didn't get a dud one. 

Yes, it’s fine to take the tray off during weighing. It only takes a few seconds to tap, if you’re leaving it off long enough for the scale to go off that’s too long! 
 

The scale may turn off while you’re waiting for it to warm up. To avoid this I take things on and off the weighing platform to keep it awake. 
 

I was overwhelmed by this process at first. I remember my first day making up 7 pills I thought “I can’t do this for 5 years”! But within a couple of weeks I’d settled into a routine and it became easy.  I’m sure the same will happen for you ☺️

[Mcat]

Thanks, and yes, very overwhelming! I think I was probably dithering and doing things so slowly that it turned off because it was all a bit anxiety-provoking. So, I'll just press on and do another trial run tomorrow afternoon, armed with all these new tips. 

[brassmonkey]

Hi Mcat-- I think I may be getting off course a bit. What exactly are we trying to calculate? Is your current dose one half of a tablet or one and a half tablets?

 

Personally, I don't like working with the spreadsheets as I find them to be confusing and inaccurate. I find it best to rely on the calculations and measurements that I make. The calculations you are doing are correct. You had a decimal point in the wrong place in one of your comments (you referred to 0.0675 as 6.75mg when it really in 67.5mg). A small mistake but can have big consequences when tapering.

 

If a whole tablet weighs 0.154 then half of it would be 0.077

A 10% reduction would be 0.077 X 0.9 = 0.0693

So, your reduced dose would weigh 0.069 on the readout and be referred to as 69mg.

 

Once you have calibrated your scales they don't need to be recalibrated again until you change batteries or drop them badly.

[Mcat]

Thanks so much, @brassmonkey - that makes more sense. My current pre-taper dose is 7.5mg, which is half a 15mg pill. What you calculated re the 0.154 and 0.077 is exactly what I came up with the other day and seems to confirm I was on the right track, but what's confusing me is that the spreadsheet I got from here (I would be incapable of setting one up - see attached) says 10% off 7.5 is 6.75 (which is why I wrote it that way), but ah, I think the light bulb just went on! I've been erroneously looking for an equivalence between my scale calculations and the spreadsheet, forgetting that the spreadsheet is talking only about the active ingredient weight and not taking into account the pill weight, which is what we're calculating. So, the 0.069/69mg you note above will be equal to the 6.75mg 10% reduction noted on the spreadsheet, yes? If I'm on the right track here, I think I've made a big leap in getting my head around all this. Bit of a maths genius all of a sudden, me, haha.

10% Taper Spreadsheet.xlsx

[Mcat]

PS: I was planning to recalibrate because I'm pretty sure I did it with the tray on last time and Faure says it should be calibrated sans tray. 

[Mcat]

PPS: And I guess my total pill weight may change once I re-calibrate without the tray, yes, so all these calculations could change. But am I right in thinking that once I establish the total pill weight, I can just keep reducing by 10% (or less - may go to the slide, depending on how things go) from the starting dose total weight baseline, so if 0.069/69mg was my first reduction, 0.062 (showing on the calculator as 0.0621, but losing the last number because rounding out) would be my next - is that correct? (My brain hurts).

[Faure]

A friend who studied physics at university has made it very clear to me that I should calibrate my scales every time I use them. This ensures the best accuracy. I have also done an internet search about this and the advice is along similar lines although perhaps less often than weekly. Given how important it is we stay well, my opinion is that calibrating each week is a sensible precaution to ensure our doses are as accurate as possible. 
 

6 hours ago, Mcat said:

am I right in thinking that once I establish the total pill weight, I can just keep reducing by 10% orless - may go to the slide, depending on how things go) from the starting dose total weight baseline, so if 0.069/69mg was my first reduction, 0.062 (showing on the calculator as 0.0621, but losing the last number because rounding out) would be my next - is that correct?

this all sounds correct to me - look at you doing rounding!  We have to round because the scales only measure to 3 decimal places. 

 

I’m very happy to hear you’re starting to get your head around all of this, well done.  I’m going away for a week, I may or may not check in to this site while I’m away ☺️ Good luck with the start of your taper, it sounds like you’re getting really well set up. 

[Mcat]

Sounds sensible - calibrating is easy enough in any event. Thanks again fir all your input and help. I’m nervous about getting it right and my first drop, of course, but I guess that’s to be expected. I hope you have a lovely holiday!