Hopeful1987 - Remeron Taper and Insomnia

[Mcat]

@hopeful1987 I've just been reading your story and wanted to weigh in about the THC. I used to take CBD/THC along with St John's Wort for sleep. This cocktail worked as a treat for me for several years till I went off the St John's Wort suddenly early last year as I thought I had to have surgery (I didn't understand you need to taper it and didn't even end up needing the surgery). I went into major WD, the main symptom being insomnia, and that's how I ended up on AD/Mirt. I now wish I'd just toughed out that WD, as I have a much bigger, more complicated, and kindled problem now. But anyway, what I experienced at that time when I was in SJW WD and still taking THC/CBD was that my insomnia GOT WORSE, and I also got kind of manic. Eventually, the chemist who dispensed it suggested the THC dose might be too high and can make it more anxious/manic and cause insomnia. From my understanding, it's sedating at lower doses but activating at higher doses, and your dose sounds pretty high to me. And if you've cut the CBD out, it's no longer being balanced by that. Before that theory was floated, I kept increasing the dose, thinking it would help, but it only worsened things. If I were you, I'd be tapering off that and maybe add the CBD back in as you do because it will nullify some of those effects if they are, indeed, part of your picture. 

[hopeful1987]

Thanks for the advice! 

[hopeful1987]

So, I did better the 2nd week of reinstatement than the 1st which is to be expected. I slept well 5 nights. However, last night I didn't sleep well at all (1 hr maybe). Yesterday, was also the day i started crushing my pills and weighing them, rather than cutting them, shaving, and weighing. Does anyone think the crushing could have made a difference in my sleep? I wouldn't think that would be a change in pill form, since I'm putting the powder in a capsule just as I was putting the cut tablet in a capsule. 

[getofflex]

6 hours ago, hopeful1987 said:

So, I did better the 2nd week of reinstatement than the 1st which is to be expected. I slept well 5 nights.

Excellent - I'm glad to hear the reinstatement is working!  

 

6 hours ago, hopeful1987 said:

However, last night I didn't sleep well at all (1 hr maybe). Yesterday, was also the day i started crushing my pills and weighing them, rather than cutting them, shaving, and weighing. Does anyone think the crushing could have made a difference in my sleep? I wouldn't think that would be a change in pill form, since I'm putting the powder in a capsule just as I was putting the cut tablet in a capsule. 

I very much doubt that this is the reason.  I think it is just the nature of withdrawal, in that we have windows and waves.  I know it's very frustrating, to do so well for a period, then to feel bad again.  I'm still dealing with this myself.  Have you had any alcohol, or used any other mind altering substances?  Changes in diet, routine?  Traveling?  Exercising intensely? Extra stress? Weather changes? Any other changes?  These can all trigger waves.  

Edited March 20, 2023 by getofflex

[hopeful1987]

Thanks for getting back to me. The answer to your questions is pretty much "no." Though i am tapering the THC, but its pretty minimal now (2.5mg). No alcohol either. Heading to FL tomorrow to stay with my folks, which is a more relaxing atmosphere. Hopefully that helps!

 

You've been psych drug free since July 2022, but youre still dealing with waves? 

[hopeful1987]

What exactly does stability look like for someone in my shoes with insomnia as the only issue? Sleeping well most nights? Just wondering when the tapering phase begins.

[Mcat]

I wonder if you had a bit of anxiety going in the background about moving to powdering? I know that some nights when I sleep badly, I wasn't aware of being extra anxious when I went to bed, but looking back I can see there was some lurking that wasn't quite front of mind, and once sensitised by these drugs/kindling, I expect those of us prone to insomnia take a hit those nights. Great that you seem to be stabilising. I think I am, too, slowly, and you pose a good question re what constitutes stability for the likes of us. By the way, fwiw, 2.5mg THC has triggered anxiety/insomnia for me in the past (might not be the culprit for you, but I do think it doesn't take much for THC to become problematic). 

[hopeful1987]

Yeah theres usually some anxiety or at least doubt going on in my mind about sleep. Trying to just divert my attention as much as possible. Im tapering the THC and down to 1.25mg now and I'll drop it after that. Thanks for the advice.

 

Glad to see youre stabilizing too. I'm going to go the compound chemist route too with a liquid. A bit nervous about switching since some have problems. Hopefully we're both spared of that.

[getofflex]

On 3/20/2023 at 4:31 PM, hopeful1987 said:

What exactly does stability look like for someone in my shoes with insomnia as the only issue? Sleeping well most nights? Just wondering when the tapering phase begins.

 

Please read Stability

 

I suggest not tapering until you have a couple of weeks of stability. 

[hopeful1987]

Hey everyone, this third week of reinstatement is nearly over and it's been the roughest one. I'm not sure why since week 1 was manageable and week 2 was much better. Though I was going uphill, especially since I reinstated only 4 days after I came off. My sleep has been terrible most of this week (i sleep for 20 minutes at a time, then wake, then sleep again at some point for 20 min, repeat). I'm probably accumulating only a couple hours a night on bad nights. Haven't had a good night in 4 days. I'm assuming the response I'll get is this is the windows and waves. I'm wondering if being a rapid metabolizer is making reinstating on 3.75mg difficult. I'm very tempted to take ambien tonight since I'm so tired. Also, even though I read the stability page, I'm still not sure what stability even looks like for me at this point. Have I reached stability? Or am I one of those unlucky ones who just isn't getting better after reinstatement? One more week and it's been a month of reinstatement and I'm not sure what to do or what to look for if this doesn't improve. 

 

Help/advice would be appreciated. Thank you. 

[getofflex]

You have had a large number of drug changes (stopping and starting, tapering, reinstating, etc) in the past 1.5 or so years.  If I counted correctly, I count 20 drug changes.  That is a lot for your nervous system to deal with.  If I had to guess, I would say that your nervous system is still reeling from all of these drug changes.  Yes, I do believe you are in the windows and waves pattern, and that your nervous system really craves and needs stability right now.  I don't really think being a fast metabolizer is the issue here.  I think it is the destabilization of your nervous system from all the drug changes.  Our nervous systems are highly complex, and intricately intertwined with all the systems in our body, so it takes a very long time for everything to sort itself out.  Please read this link, it gives a really good explanation about this: 

 

What is Happening in Your Brain? (Explains why recovery takes so long)

 

I'm sorry to tell you this, I know it is not what you want to hear.  A reinstatement is not a quick fix, it is a way to lessen the withdrawal.  It can take up to 2 months for a reinstatement to become fully effective.  

 

Have you had any alcohol, or other mind altering substances, like THC, CBD, etc?  Have you had any major dietary or other changes, travel, extra stress, intense exercise etc?  I will say that for some of us, myself included, the change from winter to spring can be destabilizing.  I had a difficult month last year in March, and some trouble this year as well with the seasonal change.  

 

What you can do, is do a daily drug and symptoms journal to see if you are developing an adverse reaction to the Remeron.  Keep track of taking your drug, symptoms, eating, sleeping, etc.  Write the time on the left, and describe the event on the right.  Pay attention especially to how you feel before, and then after, you take your drug. Please do this for 24 hours, and post an entry in here for each 24 hour period.  The goal is to see if there are any patterns, especially to see if you feel worse in the few hours after you take your drug.  Here is an example: 

 

January 31, 2023

6 AM woke with anxiety

8 am took 2.5 mg lexapro

10 am stomach is upset

10:30 am ate breakfast

11:35 am got a headache, lasted one hour

12:35 ate lunch

4 pm feel a bit better

5 pm took 2.5 mg lexapro

6 pm ate dinner

9:20 pm headache 

10:00 pm took 50 mg Seroquel

10:30 pm feeling dizzy

10:30 pm fell asleep 

2:30 am woke, took 3 mg Ambien

2:45 am fell asleep

4:30 am woke, but got back to sleep 

 

If you are not having an adverse reaction, we can try to gradually titrate your dose up, and see if that helps.  

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by getofflex

[getofflex]

Have you read our topic on sleep, and tried any of the ideas in there?  For me, listening to relaxing music at a low volume can be quite helpful to calm me down enough to sleep.  

 

Withdrawal Insomnia

[hopeful1987]

Thanks for the reply. I've read the post on sleep. Ive tried a white noise app and music and neither seems to do anything.

 

My only symptom is insomnia so i don't think a 24 hr journal is necessary. I dont feel bad after taking the remeron (i take it 30 min before bed). My sleep is just terrible since i stopped and reinstated.  Outside of the insomnia i feel normal and go about my day normally to the best of my ability. No anxiety, headache, dizziness, etc. Not even a cough. 

 

Guessing i should just ride this out?

[Mcat]

I'm loathe to mention it because it's risky (no guarantee updosing will makes things better and then you'd have a significantly longer 10% taper), but if you reach a point where you just can't cope maybe going up to 7.5 would? I see you were on 15 till Jan this year then lots of drugs changes then back to 30 Mirt and a fast taper down to 3.75. I'm thinking maybe that dose maybe isn't high enough to get you out of Mirt insomnia WD. But as I say, it's a risk. Maybe more experienced members will have a pov on this. 

[Chompoo]

@hopeful1987 I had an immediate adverse reaction to Remeron after one and only dose (15 mg) and have been suffering from brutal insomnia ever since. It's been almost 8 weeks and I'm still sleeping an average of 2-4 hours a night. Sometimes more on good nights (5-8 hours), but this is rare. In the beginning, nothing and I mean, absolutely nothing worked in getting me back to sleep. From week 4 onwards, I started to be able to fall back into sleep a second and even a third time. I think time is the greatest healer. It's brutal, but it's a matter of waiting it out.

I have been prescribed Xanax and Ambien to help with sleep. But I have not taken a single pill of either medication. It's another slippery slope. Once your body gets used to them, you will have to taper these off as well. Who knows how bad the side effects and withdrawals are, and how long you will be stuck taking them to minimise withdrawals once you come off? Especially for people like you and me, who have sensitised central nervous systems already? 

I try not to worry about sleep these days. After several bad nights, I usually get very tired. It is then that my body shuts down and I get more sleep than usual.

All the best.

[getofflex]

21 hours ago, hopeful1987 said:

Ive tried a white noise app and music and neither seems to do anything.

 

My only symptom is insomnia so i don't think a 24 hr journal is necessary. I dont feel bad after taking the remeron (i take it 30 min before bed). My sleep is just terrible since i stopped and reinstated.  Outside of the insomnia i feel normal and go about my day normally to the best of my ability. No anxiety, headache, dizziness, etc. Not even a cough. 

 

Guessing i should just ride this out?

I'm sorry to hear that those ideas didn't help.  Yes, I would just ride this out if it were me.  I would not increase the reinstatement dose.   I'm 8.5 months off Lexapro, and I still have bad insomnia some nights.  These drugs can really do a number on us.  

 

I'm wondering if Remeron has gone paradoxical on you.  This means that it could be activating you, instead of sedating you.  Please tell me more about your insomnia.  Do you have a hard time falling asleep, staying asleep, or do you wake up too early in the morning?  

 

Overall, has the reinstatement helped you at all?  

 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by getofflex

[hopeful1987]

So, after I dropped the remeron entirely (from 3.75mg) i had two nearly sleepless nights in a row. Then I reinstated the 3.75mg pill and slept normally the third night. The fourth night I took 3.75mg of liquid remeron and slept poorly. The 5th night I reinstated the 3.75mg pill and have been on it since for nearly 3 weeks now. While on reinstatement, it's clear that my nights fall into only two categories: normal sleep (6-7 hrs with no problem falling asleep initially) or just dozing occasionally throughout the night (only 2-3 hrs total). So, some nights i sleep perfectly well like I'm back to my old self before remeron. But on the other nights i struggle to fall asleep. I'll lay there for 3 hrs, doze off for 30 minutes, wake up and lay there for another hr maybe, doze off again, etc. So, yes on the bad nights I have a hard time falling asleep, which I never had prior to remeron. I've always had a degree of sleep maintenance insomnia that was normal for me, but I would fall back asleep and still get 6-7 hrs total. 

 

It's hard to say whether the reinstatement has helped or hurt because I was only off the remeron for a couple nights. Could it be that some nights the remeron sedates and some nights it activates? Or is it just the normal windows and waves until my brain gets adjusted? Hard telling I imagine...

 

Thanks for your counsel!

[getofflex]

From what you’re describing to me this sounds like normal waves and windows. If it were paradoxical, it would be activating on a regular basis.  I think time and patience are the keys here. Try to learn some non-drug coping skills for the insomnia.  The coping skills I use are acceptance, prayer and meditation,  deep breathing and proactive optimism that this is going to get better which it will.

[Mcat]

Hey, Hopeful, I had a great, super good week of sleeps up until last night, which was back to the old pattern of 3-5 hours solid then waking too early wired (though sometimes if in serious WD like earlier in the year when I came off it's much worse than that and trouble falling asleep as well as sleep maintenance insomnia). What I've noticed is that if I try some deep breathing to settle and I still don't sleep, getting up and having something to eat and staying up for a bit (but not going on computer or doing anything activating) and waiting till I feel sleepy again works. It means I have long nights on those nights and late starts to my day, but at least I get another couple of hours of sleep, albeit very light and broken, which is important as we have to keep this up over a long haul (at least intermittently). I also know from my insomnia troubles pre-Mirt that what I eat has a lot to do with my ability to sleep well. It's tough for me as I'm plant based (and I can't face eating meat, even if I was willing to compromise my ethics) so I process food fast and often wake up in the wee hours hungry. I'm going to try a protein powder with supper before bed and see if that helps during waves. 

[getofflex]

Here are my non drug ways of trying to help my sleep: 

 

My Insomnia Tips

 

Insomnia has been the worst part of WD for me.  Here is what I do to help.  

 

1) don't get overly anxious about it.  Realize that eventually, your sleep will improve.  Insomnia won't kill you, although it can make you pretty miserable.  Anxiety about sleep just makes the problem worse.  I know, easier said than done. I don't always do this, but I try.  Practice acceptance.

 

2)listen to very soft relaxing music at a very low volume.  

 

3)don't worry about what time it is.  Don't look at the clock.  

 

4) I try to stay active during the first half of the day.  I take a walk (mine is one hour) after breakfast every day.  Then, as the day goes on, gradually slow down.  Several hours before bed, I only do very relaxing things, like read, or just sit and relax.  This helps to set our circadian rhythm.  Try to get outside and get some light exposure during the day, too. 

 

5) Avoid toxic, negative people.  Avoid stress when possible, although I know a lot of stressors are unavoidable.   For me, this can really help me to relax better.  

 

6) I stay away from MSG and aspartame.  These are exitotoxins which overstimulate the nervous system.  They are in a lot of our modern processed foods.  I try to eat more whole and natural, and not as many processed foods.  Also avoid processed meats with sodium nitrate, etc , such as hotdogs, ham, bacon, and sausage.  These can keep you up at night too.

 

7) avoid eating large amounts of sugar and processed carbohydrates.  This causes your blood glucose to spike up, which causes your pancreas to create insulin to control your blood sugar, which then causes your blood sugar to drop too low, and then your to create adrenaline to try to regulate your blood sugar.  Adrenaline keeps you awake because it is an activating hormone.

 

9) too much sodium (salt) can cause your blood pressure and heart rate to rise, and make it hard to sleep.

 

Here are Gridley's ideas for sleep: 

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/24895-atimirt-mirtazapine-withdrawal-help/?do=findComment&comment=534019

 

[hopeful1987]

Thanks for all the counsel Mcat and Getofflex. Last 2 nights have been better. Still struggled to get to sleep, but it didn't last as long. I wake often (8-10x), but I fall asleep again each time. Definitely better than sleepless nights. I'll just power through and see where I am in a few weeks. 

[Mcat]

If it's any consolation, I still wake up frequently as well, but I can live with that far more easily if I'm least going back to sleep and racking up a good number of hours. I think that's just our CNS being in a bit of a state from all the drug changes and stress - plus, these drugs do have a negative effect on REM sleep, so we might be feeling the effects of that as well. I'm glad you've decided to hold. I think that's the best strategy. Going up is heading in the wrong direction so best avoided. All my tapering gear has arrived so I'll just do as you're doing and hold where I am for a bit longer before biting the bullet. 

[Mcat]

PS: I've long known that hormonal change (ever since peri-menopause; now many years post-menopause) and stress/anxiety have been my biggest obstacles to good sleep, even pre-Mirt, but now I have chemical insomnia to contend with on top. What I'm realising is that as Getoflex and the link he provided state, the big challenge now is to take responsibility for reducing my stess/anxiety levels as much as possible so as not to compound the hormone/chemical aspect. This is easier said than done, especially when you are in highly stressful circumstances with no real alternative, as I currently am. I find that I need to soothe myself constantly through the night and practice slow, belly breathing. It doesn't always work to get me back to sleep, but it often does, and even when it doesn't it keeps me from getting hysterical about not sleeping (and I find that I'm better able to cope the next day with being sleep deprived if I've stayed calm in the face of the insomnia). I sometimes get up to have a snack and do a guided meditation (I also try to do one of these during the day at some point). My favourite podcasts for this are the Tara Brach podcast and one called The Yoga Nidra Project. Just thought I'd pass that along in case it's of any use. 

[Altostrata]

On 3/27/2023 at 10:13 AM, hopeful1987 said:

So, after I dropped the remeron entirely (from 3.75mg) i had two nearly sleepless nights in a row. Then I reinstated the 3.75mg pill and slept normally the third night. The fourth night I took 3.75mg of liquid remeron and slept poorly. The 5th night I reinstated the 3.75mg pill and have been on it since for nearly 3 weeks now.

...

It's hard to say whether the reinstatement has helped or hurt because I was only off the remeron for a couple nights. Could it be that some nights the remeron sedates and some nights it activates? Or is it just the normal windows and waves until my brain gets adjusted? Hard telling I imagine...

 

Thanks for your counsel!

 

This pattern of constant drug changes is of a piece with your history. You are your own worst enemy. Yes, reinstatement was working.

 

You may not feel it, but your system is now physically dependent on 3.75mg. Monkeying around with the dosing, quitting, going back on -- your system has to adjust to every one of those changes.

 

There is no mystery here. When you stopped mirtazapine for a couple of nights, you got insomnia as a withdrawal symptom. Resuming it again with the pill form, to which you were accustomed, restored the sleep effect.

 

Strongly recommend you stop trying to improve on the effect of 3.75mg mirtazapine and take the same dose at the same time FOR A MONTH, let your nervous system settle down. You'll probably experience good nights and bad nights, because your system doesn't settle down from 7 months of weekly drug changes right away, it will take some time, maybe months.

 

If you don't want to post daily notes, we will have no clue why you might have intermittent symptoms, so there's really no reason to report them.

 

Please let us know when you're stabilized and want to taper mirtazapine properly per Tips for tapering off mirtazapine (Remeron)

 

[hopeful1987]

Thanks Mcat for the tips and encouragement. 

 

Altostrata, i know i didn't handle things well in the beginning, but I've been following the advice on this site since i became a member by reinstating the pill and holding on this dose. I did try one night on a liquid early on, but that was before i knew a liquid switch could further destabilize me. Since then ive been consistent with the 3.75mg pill.

 

I can post daily notes, but i just don't see the benefit for someone in my shoes with 1 symptom, which is sleep onset insomnia. I'm not trying to be difficult. Just trying to understand. 

 

I take my pill at 10, go to bed at 10:30, but lay there for 4 hrs or so before falling asleep. I try not to think about it much and exacerbate the issue, which is easier said than done. I'm getting 2-4 hrs a night most nights now. I was sleeping better earlier in the reinstatement, though i know its only been 3 weeks. Haven't changed my daily routine so no idea why i was doing better before than i am now. 

 

 

 

 

[Mcat]

Hi, I think lying there in bed for hours might not be serving you. The problem with insomnia, especially when chemical withdrawal might be part of the picture, is that it's hard to know where the chemical aspect ends and sleep hygiene/anxiety issues begin. For myself, I know hormonal change (peri/menopause/post) and life stress that hasn't been possible to resolve despite my best effects were the starts of my insomnia problem, which led me to Mirtazapine, but now I have chemical WD insomnia to face as I come off this drug. As powerful as that is, I've seen that I can do things that make it worse and things that make it better. When you lie there for 4 hours are you *trying* to sleep? Are you thinking or doing guided meditations? What we do with the non-sleep time really matters, I am learning. Earlier this year, I read a classic CBT sleep book by some sleep boffin that trotted out all the usual tips: get early morning sun where possible, go to sleep and wake up at the same time (the latter being most important) and don't lie in bed for longer than 20 minutes - if you haven't dropped off in that time, you should get up and do something calming, wait till you get sleepy and then go back to bed. That's standard CBT sleep advice, which I personally find helpful and problematic in equal measures because while I totally get the theory and why it's important, getting up activates me more and also checking to see whether I've been lying there for 20 mins is stressful and requires me to look at the clock, which feeds my sleep anxiety (so I generally try not to do it). I've just started a book called The Effortless Sleep Method by Sasha Stephens that I heard high praise for on another Mirt page. Haven't got to the gist of the recommendations yet, but really hope she's got something useful to add. 

[hopeful1987]

Hey Mcat, ive read both of Sashas books and found them helpful. I also read Set It and Forget It by Daniel Erichsen. They have similarities and differences. One difference is the staying in bed issue. Sasha says don't do it. Daniel says do whatever calms and relaxes you. When in bed im typically not thinking about sleep, at least initially. But the longer i lie there the harder it gets. I've never had sleep onset insomnia before and it's really the worst. Id much rather fall asleep at 10:30 and wake up at 3:30 like some folks on here. Anyway perhaps you're right, but the problem is that I'm tired all the time now, so if i get up I'm not sure when i should go back to bed. Sometimes i doze off on the couch before bed watching tv and then i go to bed, but then i can't fall asleep there. Maybe i should just try staying on the couch for longer or watching tv in bed, though i know some frown on that. 

[Mcat]

Yeah, lucky me, I get both kinds these days (used to only be sleep maintenance insomnia). I do think the inset developed as a result of WD chemical insomnia, which set off sleep anxiety, and then it gets to the point where you can’t tell what’s what. I also know that sleepy on the lounge, wakeful once in bed number and it’s a special kind of hell. I’m still learning g about all this for myself, so I can’t be sure, but I’m starting to think that might be a sleep anxiety thing - when you’ve spent  too much time in bed nit sleeping and have developed a bed/awake/anxious association. Why don’t you try an experiment? Sounds like you’ve been doing it Daniel’s way, so why not try Sasha’s way for a bit? And yes, maybe waiting till you’re sleepier - remember, there’s a difference between being tired and sleepy.

[Altostrata]

We would like to see those daily symptom notes as requested twice so far.

[hopeful1987]

April 1, 2023

7am – Woke up, feeling tired from little and broken sleep.

8am – Breakfast

9am – Worked in Office

12:30pm - Lunch

1:30pm – Worked in Office

3:00pm – 30 min walk outside

6:00pm - Dinner

7:00pm – Movie w/ family

8:15pm - 900mcg melatonin

10pm – 3.75mg Remeron

10:30pm – Fatigued, but otherwise feel normal. Went to bed, but didn’t fall asleep until 2-2:30am.

Early AM hrs - Tossed and turned, getting broken sleep. Tried to avoid clock watching.

7:00am – Woke up for the day

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Please explain more about what's going on when you're tossing and turning.

 

You may wish to combine these tips with your sleep regimen:

 

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

White noise devices for sleep

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

[hopeful1987]

I use a white noise machine. Tried soft music, but it distracted me too much. The white noise seems a bit more soothing. 

 

As far as tossing and turning, I'm just not sleeping for long periods of time. I eventually doze off, sleep for an hour maybe, then wake up, switch to my other side to get comfortable, lay there until I doze off again, and repeat. My anxiety levels are usually good. I've gotten better about accepting the new normal. When I lay there I think about positive things or pray rather than dwelling on the situation. I'm also dreaming, so REM is happening at least. But all in all, it usually takes me a while to get to sleep, and when I do sleep it's very fragmented. I'm only accumulating 2.5-4 hrs each night by my guess. It's strange because during week 2 of reinstatement I had 5 normal nights and only 2 bad nights. But week 3 went down hill to my current pattern as described above. 

 

I forgot to add above that I do take 900mcg of melatonin at 8:15pm. Correcting it now. 

[hopeful1987]

 

April 2, 2023

7am – Woke up, feeling tired from little and broken sleep.

8am – Breakfast

9:30am - Church

1pm - Lunch

3:30pm – 30 min walk outside

6:00pm - Dinner

7:00pm – TV

8:15pm - 900mcg melatonin

10pm – 3.75mg Remeron

10:30pm – Fatigued, but otherwise feel normal. Went to bed and fell asleep earlier than normal (within an hour?)

Early AM hrs - Tossed and turned, getting broken sleep

7:00am – Woke up for the day. Felt a bit more refreshed than usual. Thinking I got around 5 hrs. 

[getofflex]

These sleep problems are so typical of withdrawal. It’s really good that you’re learning some non-drug coping techniques. Your sleep should very gradually improve with ups and downs.  I’m glad last night was better  

[hopeful1987]

 

April 3, 2023

7am – Woke up, feeling tired from little and broken sleep.

7:30am– Breakfast

8:30am - Light workout

9:00am - Worked in office

12pm - Lunch

3:00pm – 30 min walk outside

6:00pm - Dinner

7:00pm - Reading

8:15pm - Melatonin & Magnesium

10pm – 3.75mg Remeron

10:30pm – Fatigued, but otherwise feel normal. Went to bed and fell asleep earlier than normal (within an hour?)

Early AM hrs - Tossed and turned, getting broken sleep

7:00am – Woke up for the day. All in all, probably around 5 hrs sleep just like previous night. 

[Altostrata]

This sounds like your nervous system is accommodating to the 3.75mg reinstatement.

 

Do you want to try it for another week? Otherwise, I might increase by a tiny bit, can you measure out 4mg?