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Punarbhava

Brain zaps

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Punarbhava

ADMIN NOTE Also see

Constant low-level jolts in entire body

Paresthesia: Pins & Needles, Numbness, Tingling, Burn...

tremors, shaking, body vibration

Exploding head syndrome or SSRI withdrawal?

Skaehill, 1997 SSRI Withdrawal Syndrome
 

MOD NOTE:  4.19 mark of this video Alto talks about brain zaps:

 
 


 
Hi Everyone.........
 
I've been having a lot of problems with brain zaps and was wondering if people could share their thoughts, experiences, knowledge about the subject, not to mention WHEN these zaps finally retreated for good. I didn't have any brain zaps during my rapid tolerance WD taper, despite having every other symptom possible.
 
However, within the first few days of taking my last dose I eperienced my first brain zap (in fact two very strong and disturbing ones on the 5th day after my last tiny dose). About a week later the same thing happened. Oh, BTW, my brain zaps only occur at night as I try to fall asleep or very occasionally if I have a nap in the afternoon. I understand that many people incur this symptom just before drifting off to sleep. Anyway, aside from those two nights I had no more brain zaps for the longest time and I remember being thankful that I had one less symptom to deal with.
 
However, at the 14th month mark the zaps came back and have been with me ever since. (23 month mark at present). In fact, they have been increasing in numbers although not quite as severe in intensity (although I can have an intense spell that comes about) I'm bewildered as to WHY this symptom would continue and even escalate at this point in WD?
 
I wish to articulate that I can keep my brain zaps to a minimum IF I stay off the computer in the latter part of the evening. Up until the 14 month of WD, despite extreme sensitvities to the computer, I could be on-line late in the evening without incurring any zaps. My computer senstiivities continue to this day however, not as extreme as before however, despite this, the brain zaps have escalated in frequency and numbers.
 
There is no doubt in my mind that the fluorescent light from the LCD monitor has a negative stimulating effect on my brain however, as mentioned, my sensitivity to this light isn't as severe (although still bad enough) yet, I'm getting more brain zaps. Perhaps it could be that I'm spending more time on the computer and thus, it agitates my brain (stirs it up in an electrical frenzy). It does feel like that to me when I'm on the computer at any time of day but then, as I try to fall asleep, this is when the electrical storm starts to manifest further in, what I call "the after effect".
 
No doubt the computer monitor is like me looking into a "light box (lamp)" that people use for SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder). At the 14th month mark (post taper) the zaps produced a distinct "zzzzz" sound, along with the feeling that my brain was electrically short-circuiting. No pain was involved however, I would get this pre-washing effect as a pre-warning that a zap was approaching. BTW, this pre-warning wash happens before each approaching zap. So, when I experience multiple or series of zaps, I will incur multiple "warning sensations".
 
BTW, I would only get two or three zaps at the most up until recently. Now, at 23 months, I'm being hit with 8 to 10 consecutive zaps before I fall asleep IF I'm on the computer latter in the evening. I'm baffled at why this has gotten worse. BTW, the sound of the zaps has changed as well. I no longer get this "zzzz" sound. It's been replaced by another sound that I have no words to describe. I've even had a few nights lately where I refrained from computer use yet, I still managed to incur two zaps in spite of restricting my exposure.
 
I do know that I'm going to have to go back to disciplining myself re: stay off the computer in the late evening. I realize this is the simplest solution in reducing this problem however, I'm not a huge TV viewer and, at present, I cannot read a novel due to my brain being too anxious and, in fact, it races more IF I try to read from a book, especially a novel. (lol) My eyes and mind speed ahead of the each sentence. Anyway, that's a whole other topic that I won't get into. Anyway, I'm sure other people have dealt with this and thus, was wondering when they experienced freedom from "the zap attacks" (lol) and/or if they have any insight into this subject.
 
I don't complain much about my symptoms and try to be incredibly patient with the process (acceptance) but I must admit that I'm becoming frustrated at this point, especially when I can't even distract from the aloneness via the computer without incuring an increase in negative consequences. Has anyone noticed if an increase in emotional stress increased the zaps? I haven't noticed the connection between the two eg. I could be stressed to the max without incurring more zaps, despite an increase in all other symptoms.
 
BTW, I engage in diaphragmatic breathing to calm my CNS before falling asleep but it has no positive effect in regard to preventing or minimizing this particular symptom. I'm not in crisis over this (lol) and thus, don't expect to receive immediate responses. I'm just baffled and frustrated. Thank you for reading this post and I look forward to hearing people's responses, experiences, and feedback.
 
Punar

 

Edited by ChessieCat
Altostrata added admin note/CC added Mod Note

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Punarbhava

Wikipedia description of brain zaps.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSRI_discontinuation_syndrome

 

"Electric shock sensations have also been reported[28][31] with many patients describing the symptoms as "brain zaps". It has been suggested the sensations may represent an alteration of neuronal activity in the central nervous system.[33]"

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Neuroplastic

Pun, first off, it's again this darn Rubik's Cube (if the guy - Rubik - finds out about this site, we will go broke - he'll sue pants off of us for the over-use of the rubical metaphor. LOL!) But it's so true - the ever changing pattern of recovery. The missed adjustation, the frequent over-shooting, the slowliness of the whole process, they may all account for the symptoms returning, if in a different form. Still, the PROGRESS is always there. Even the over-shooting is the PROGRESS in itself, for, to eventually fix one piece, "some over-shooting must take place in the first place".

 

Yet, I'm also certain about your over-exposing yourself to the computer stimulus. Every time I see how monstrously MUCH work you put into the forum, I always think "how is she doing it all still being in such a fragile state?". Pun, you need to join at least *some* sessions of the Computer Temperance Club. :) This should calm down the system a bit.

 

Sending you the CTC membership card. B)

Neuro

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Healing

One can definitely get a temporary, but long-lasting worsening of any symptom even quite late in the process. It's pretty stunning.

 

I think it was Rhiannon whom I first heard use the word "over-shooting," which is so apt. If it was you, NP, I'm sorry!

 

I think the computer might be affecting you not only because of the light, but because of other electromagnetic waves coming off it. There are a lot of different options out there to shield you from the EMF from computers. I've been thinking of looking into this at some point. I don't know a lot about it, but Brandy might.

 

I've never had the zaps per se, but I do get a kind of full body shudder as I'm falling asleep sometimes. I know it's not the same thing as hypnic jerks, but whatever causes hypnic jerks in normal people may be aggravated in us.

 

Can I ask, what bothers you the most about the zaps at bedtime? Are they painful, frightening, depressing because of what they mean? Are you concerned they're harming you? Do they interfere with your ability to sleep?

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Neuroplastic

I think it was Rhiannon whom I first heard use the word "over-shooting," which is so apt. If it was you, NP, I'm sorry!

Went through some SA threads now, and, indeed, it seems like Rhiannon coined it. And it's totally apt!

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Altostrata

The zaps are a common symptom of SSRI withdrawal.

 

Brain zaps probably are related to a central nervous system symptom called Lhermitte's sign. See https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Lhermitte's_sign

 

Lhermitte's sign is very low-level electrical signaling in the brain. It is a symptom that your nervous system has been destabilized by withdrawal. Like Lhermitte's, the zaps probably are a neurological hypersensitivity phenomenon. Many people who have the zaps say they are related to eye or head motion.

 

It is a cousin of epilepsy in that it is also abnormal electrical activity in the brain. Some people claim it can be treated with anti-seizure medications. Low-dose Lamictal (lamotrigine) may be a reasonable choice.

 

Lhermitte's is usually associated with electrical sensations in other places in the body but those who have bothered to look into the withdrawal zaps have called them a type of Lhermitte's.

 

Some people endure brain zaps for months; they tend to gradually decrease. I had them for 6 months in acute withdrawal and have not been troubled by them since. (My belief is they are not trivial and you should not put your brain through them if you can avoid it by slow tapering.)

 

----------

Abstract at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12741444

Full text at http://www.mediafire.com/?05lths70n67kcsm

Pharmacotherapy. 2003;23(5)

Shock-Like Sensations During Venlafaxine Withdrawal.

Roy R. Reeves, D.O., Ph.D., James E. Mack, Ph.D., John J. Beddingfield, M.D.

 

e-mail: roy.reeves@med.va.gov

 

Abstract

 

Electric shock-like sensations may occur after cessation of treatment with serotonin selective reuptake inhibitors but are reported in the literature only rarely with discontinuation of venlafaxine. Two patients experienced severe shock-like sensations during venlafaxine withdrawal. For both patients symptoms occurred with lowering of the dosage and persisted for 5 days after complete discontinuation of the drug. These sensations may represent significant alteration of neuronal activity in the central nervous system.

 

----------

The Consultant Pharmacist

Skaehill, Penny A.; Welch, E.B. (October 1997).

Clinical Reviews: SSRI Withdrawal Syndrome.

(This had been at http://www.ascp.com/publications/tcp/1997/oct/ssri.html but the link is broken. It is cited on en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paroxetine and quoted many places on the Web.)

 

Here is one quote from http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16763:

 

"....The cause of withdrawal syndrome following discontinuation of SSRIs is unknown, but the electric shock sensations reported with neck flexion are identical to Lhermitte's sign, which appears with dysfunction of the posterior spinal cord. This suggests change at a neuronal level.

 

It has been proposed that inhibition of reuptake initially increases the synaptic concentration of serotonin. Exposure to high concentrations of 5-HT, even for as short as five weeks, may cause down-regulation of receptors. When the SSRI is discontinued the concentration of 5-HT falls. The lower level of 5-HT is insufficient to provide an adequate agonist stimulus for the down-regulated receptors, resulting in withdrawal syndrome. Inhibition of 5-HT and norepinephrine receptors may be involved in withdrawal symptoms from venlafaxine.

 

Paroxetine possesses muscarinic antichoninergic activity and may cause withdrawal symptoms via the same mechanism as the tricyclic antidepressants. Compared to other SSRIs, paroxetine is the most pharmacologically selective antagonist at the 5-HT reuptake site.

 

The withdrawal syndrome usually subsides within several weeks of discontinuation in most reports. Withdrawal syndrome is most likely to occur in patients who receive SSRIs with a short half-life. A long half-life of the parent compound and/or active metabolite leads to a more gradual withdrawal. The onset of symptoms following abrupt discontinuation or taper is within one to seven days.

 

The optimum tapering regimen for each agent has yet to be determined by comparative clinical trials...."

 

----------

Other references:

 

Citation at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20512281

Sao Paulo Med J. 2010 Jan;128(1):45; author reply 46.

Lhermitte's sign.

Wiwanitkit V.

 

Citation at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18633745

Ann Clin Psychiatry. 2008 Jul-Sep;20(3):175.

Shock-like sensations associated with duloxetine discontinuation.

Pitchot W, Ansseau M.

 

Citation at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18480703

J Clin Psychopharmacol. 2008 Jun;28(3):359-60.

Emergence of electric shock-like sensations on escitalopram discontinuation.

Prakash O, Dhar V.

 

Abstract at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8889917

J Clin Psychopharmacol. 1996 Oct;16(5):411-2.

Lhermitte's sign in paroxetine withdrawal.

Reeves RR, Pinkofsky HB.

 

Citation at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7726327

Am J Psychiatry. 1995 May;152(5):810.

Shock-like sensations after discontinuation of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors.

Frost L, Lal S.

 

Citation at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=ellison%20buzz

J Clin Psychiatry. 1994 Dec;55(12):544-5.

SSRI withdrawal buzz.

Ellison JM.

 

 

----------

If anyone has any of the above documents in electronic form, please e-mail them to me and I will upload them.

Edited by Altostrata
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Claudius

In fact this story confirms the notorious statement that WD takes at most a few weeks, and that all symtpms present later are "return of your original condition". Sometimes I wonder whether this is indeed true for the majority of patients and that is the reason that even the good doctors appear to be ignorant about the issue.

Alsso the onset of sypmtoms should be within one to seven days according to this article. For me it took 6 weeks for the WD symptoms to appear, from one minute on the other, and that for all my 6 WD attempts.

Probably my case is unique for some forever unknow reason. And I cannot find or think of any explanation for the very long WD incubation time in my particular case, which also made it hard to believe for the docs as well as myself that it was actually WD. If I am the exception that I metabolize Paxil much slower than the avarage, the argument that Paxil WD is so severe because its short half-life would not be valid anymore, but my WD started after 6 weeks, and inbetween I had no single symptom. But when WD hit I was awfully ill while one day before I still felt great...

And that is my greatest enigma. And there seems to be no explanation for this... :(:angry:

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Altostrata

Good point, Claudius -- if the zaps last for weeks or months how can it be said withdrawal only lasts for a week or two?

 

I got the brain zaps pretty early in the withdrawal process -- I tapered Paxil over a few weeks -- but it took about 6 weeks for me to start experiencing really severe symptoms.

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Punarbhava

Sincere thank you to each one who has responded. I had typed out a few paragraphs but it got lost somewhere in cyberspace. :angry:

 

 

I appreciate the feedback very much since, it has provided some critical information as well as provoked me to recall a few things, that I also need to take into consideration in regard to the status of my recovery to date.

 

 

I will explain more later. I'm past my computer "cut-off" time for the evening so I better post this and get off-line for now.

 

 

Again, I really appreciate the time and effort you have all put forth. It really means a lot to me!

 

 

Wishing you all a great weekend!

 

 

Punar

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Maybe

I also had those brain zaps shortly before falling asleep. But only for 3 or 4 days at the beginning of my wd. They never came back fortunately and I hope it stays that way. I soemwhere read that Omega-3 may help to ease them, but as always, no one really can support that with facts.

 

I hope they will cease to exist soon, Punar!

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Punarbhava

Pun, first off, it's again this darn Rubik's Cube (if the guy - Rubik - finds out about this site, we will go broke - he'll sue pants off of us for the over-use of the rubical metaphor. LOL!)

 

LOl!! No doubt!

 

 

But it's so true - the ever changing pattern of recovery. The missed adjustation, the frequent over-shooting, the slowliness of the whole process, they may all account for the symptoms returning, if in a different form. Still, the PROGRESS is always there. Even the over-shooting is the PROGRESS in itself, for, to eventually fix one piece, "some over-shooting must take place in the first place".

 

 

Thank you for responding Neuro and I truly appreciate what you have articulated. Although, I am aware of all you have described, it has really helped me to hear YOUR description. It allows me to get outside of my own mind and my regilious self-reassurance rescue misssions (lol). I NEEDED to hear a NEW LANGUAGE or NEW TERMS since, mine are becoming old. (LOL).

 

TBH,your terminology and analogy is intellectually superior to mine ATM. It also helps to receive "reasoning" from another, when one becomes depleted from one's own constant attempts to remain positive and rational. (lol)

 

I LOVE the term "over-shooting" that you used. Now this term snapped my mind into a "oh yes this makes perfect sense and I need to remember this term". The brain sensations I'm getting at night feel exactly like what you state. It feels like my brain is "over-shooting" electrically .........since, each zap-like experience feels like an electrical storm session.

 

I'm not getting a electrical jolts per se. Rather, it's more like a storm erupting in my brain....electricity short circuiting that does self-correct without any intervention.

 

I also understand how you've used the term to define the process of healing.........the cycling between the variables you have described. Indeed, this is all true.

 

 

Yet, I'm also certain about your over-exposing yourself to the computer stimulus.

 

Indeed, there is a direct "cause and effect" occuring.

 

 

Every time I see how monstrously MUCH work you put into the forum, I always think "how is she doing it all still being in such a fragile state?".

 

 

I honestly don't feel like I"m doing much, compared to yourself and a few others. However, it's obvious that I'm doing too much for my particular CNS to handle, at this point in time (as you have pointed out and which I agree with)

 

 

Pun, you need to join at least *some* sessions of the Computer Temperance Club. :) This should calm down the system a bit.

 

 

OMG, I laughed so hard at this line. (LOL). Where do I sign up?

 

 

The solution to my problem is obvious isn't it? (lol). Although I'm not a huge fan of Dr. Phil, he does come out with some great "get real" lines and the one I need to utilize ATM is: "When you choose a behavior, you choose the consequence"

 

 

So, with that said, I will have to go back to self-disciplining myself, as I did before, prior these last few weeks. I thought I'd test myself to see IF I could endure more computer use but it's obvious my brain is rebelling and saying, "oh yea, you want to mess with me? well take this lady.....I'll show you who's the boss." (lol)

 

 

 

Sending you the CTC membership card. B)

 

 

LOL!! Too funny. Thanks for the humour (it helps me to laugh at myself). I also appreciate the wise advice and the powerful "key" word that truly makes a difference in defining what is happening.

 

 

 

Thank you again Neuro and Much More Magnificent Healing to You!

 

 

Punar

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Punarbhava

Sur,

 

 

thank you very much for posting the article. I had to print it out in order to read and absorb the material.

 

 

I must admit that when I first scanned it, my CNS immediately went into physiological panic sensations since, my underlying fear (which I have been brilliant at keeping in check and rational about) came to surface.

 

 

It truly feels as if I've been experiencing some degree of seizure-like activity however, I'm trying not to be a drama queen about it all. I've held off on writing about it for a very long time since, just talking about the zaps, shoots my CNS into panic like reactions. Consequently, I try not to talk about my symptoms much since, it only lands up high-jacking my CNS.

 

 

I've become quite good at minimizing and rationalizing my way through fears by not allowing them to control me but vice versa. OR, when they take hold, I work immediately and religiously to turn my thought processes around ASAP, in order to minimize the physiological and psychological panic reactions as quickly and as effectively as possible.

 

 

However, with all that said, there is a danger in not taking somethng seriously when need be. The article you posted is now provoking me to "honour my brain" and not to mess with it's intelligence.

 

 

It's apparent that it's informing me that I'm challenging it too much. It's my job to LISTEN and make the necessary changes/behavioral modifications, whether I like it or not.

 

 

As we all know, WD teaches us that we don't get to choose what we would LIKE to engage in. Rather, we must work WITH our CNS and brain, and NOT against it.

 

 

As disappointing as it is to have to limit my computer activity, yet again, I will have to do so, in order to prevent and/or minimize these brain storms from erupting.

 

 

This seems like the most effective, immediate, safest and most preferable method to implement at this time. In this way, I can avoid the use of any drug.

 

 

Thank you so very much for this information. Although it was initially upsetting to read, it was necessary for me to hear so I can take seriously, that which I felt was serious.

 

 

My continuous rational attempts to downplay the significance of these events has not been wise. Likewise, my recent "I wanna play more, pouty attitude" (lol) is not serving my recovery well and thus, I will have to cut back on something that really provides a wonderful distraction for me.

 

 

Thanks again Sur!

 

 

Much More Marvelous Healing to You!

 

 

Punar

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Punarbhava

I also had those brain zaps shortly before falling asleep. But only for 3 or 4 days at the beginning of my wd. They never came back fortunately and I hope it stays that way. I soemwhere read that Omega-3 may help to ease them, but as always, no one really can support that with facts.

 

I hope they will cease to exist soon, Punar!

 

 

Hi Maybe........

 

thank you for your response and for sharing! I'm glad to hear that your experience with brain zaps was short-lived. If they haven't reappeared at this point in your recovery, they likely are gone for good. Pretty sure you can rest easy in that regard.

 

 

Thank you for sharing re: Omega 3. I can't consume such, in way of a capsule due to how my stomach reacts however, I did try, earlier on, the vegetarian version "flax seed oil" which landed up creating headaches. Consequently, I've pretty much stayed away from exposing myself to such things.

 

 

I try to eat a lot of salmon, trout etc. It seems to agree with my stomach more easily than the fish oil caps.

 

 

With that said, many people can tolerate and benefit from Omega 3's so, I'm glad you brought it forward for others who may be reading this thread.

 

 

Most of all, I sincerely thank you for your well wishes. I truly means a lot to me!

 

 

We will make it through this journey, one way or another, no matter how long it may take.

 

 

I know many people feel so much better around the 2 year mark, even if not completely healed, they do feel far less restricted. If that doesn't pan out then I will set my sights on the 30 month mark, since this seems to be another common turning point for many.

 

 

Much More Wonderful Healing to You Maybe!

 

 

Punar

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Punarbhava

Hi Healing......

 

Before reading any further, I wish to mention that this is a very long post and there is no expectation for any type of response from anyone since, I'm not complaining but rather, explaining and defining the events that have occurred.

 

BTW, there is no sympathy seeking either. (lol). I'm more than okay. I do however, have a fear that a newbie will read my thread and freak out if they see I'm 23 months off the drug and having these problems. Thus, I felt I needed to clarify the background of my situation so people do not become alarmed by my post.

 

I'll be surprised if anyone even finishes reading it since, it's ridiculously long and too time consuming. :rolleyes:

 

I tried so hard, repeatedly to edit down the story but I just couldn't and so, I'm going to have to "let it go" and not concern myself about it any longer since, doing so is unproductive and creating too much stress. (lol).

 

Additionally, I don't wish to place the bulk of this post on you Ms. Healing. (lol). Rather, I'm just working out some of what was presented to me by you and others so no expectations for a response.

 

One key point re: brain zaps and feelings of brain neurological activity: In all the years I have spent on different WD boards, I've never, to date, heard of anyone developing worse and increased zaps at the 14 month and onward phases of WD.

 

In fact, I've read the opposite. Most people incur these particular events in early WD and they diminish and recede over time. While I am concerned about this, I'm not in a state of intense fear. I've identified the cause (which is half the battle) and by implementing the proper strategy, I can reduce the frequency and number of the events, which means, I have something to work with.

 

With that said, I'm not narcissistic enough to believe that I'm the only case. (lol) Rather, I believe the opposite: "if I'm experiencing this, surely there must be others" (lol). I don't believe I'm special or unique. (lol) I'd prefer to be "special" in other areas of life. (LOL)

 

Anyway, your post, due to the questions you posed, provoked me to put some critical pieces, of the puzzle, into place that I have forgotten to take into consideration, in regard to the degree/level of suffering that I am experiencing at this phase in WD.

 

So Thank you ever so much for, not only responding to my post but also for sharing your thoughts. Your post, as well as those from others, have provoked a lot necessary recall and analysis regarding the totality of my WD experience. I've done too good a job at pushing the early days of WD out of mind, in an effort to reduce trauma, and to focus my energy on moving forward.

 

However, doing so has, to some degree, interfered with processing my current situation and placing it within the proper context. Rather, than focusing on these recent events, I need to look at the greater picture. When I look at "how far I've come, the current degree of these zaps, makes more sense. Yes, I'm incurring more zaps, however, they are laughable compared to the intense and violent neurological reactions I used to have to the computer and other sources of light.

 

TBH, I hesitated to write all this since, I don't wish to indulge myself, in this manner, too often however, there's much to be said about "not keeping everything to oneself, at all times."

 

Receiving feedback can make a positive difference since, it can provoke someone to reexamine their current beliefs about what is presently occurring. What may appear baffling ATM, can be more fully understood, when feedback provokes further assessment and analysis, not to mention, the inclusion of sound recommendations etc. etc.

 

So, I am very much appreciative of everyone's kind energy and efforts! THANK YOU!

 

 

 

One can definitely get a temporary, but long-lasting worsening of any symptom even quite late in the process. It's pretty stunning.

 

 

 

You're so right about this. I have witnessed on various forms, over the years, as well as with myself. As disheartening as it is ........it is a reality of the recovery process. With that said, this particular symptom, at this stage of WD, is more unnerving to me than what the increase of other symptoms had been.

 

But when one's brain is acting in this manner, and to this intensity, this far off the drug, not to mention being worse, in some regards, at this phase, it does cause me to become more concerned.

 

As I mentioned, in my original post, I'm not freaking out about it but rather, concerned. However, at least there is a remedy for it re: refraining from computer use beyond 8:00 p.m and onward. For some reason the 8:00 time frame is the magic number for me. If I flirt with 9:00, I pay the price. (lol). At least there is a viable solution to this problem.

 

I suspect there is some form of melatonin interruption that is occurring from exposure the florescent light exposure from LCD monitor. Although I do realize this is a simplistic explanation since, other hormones are involved as well but that's a whole other discussion.

 

 

 

I think the computer might be affecting you not only because of the light, but because of other electromagnetic waves coming off it. There are a lot of different options out there to shield you from the EMF from computers. I've been thinking of looking into this at some point. I don't know a lot about it, but Brandy might.

 

 

Thank you very much for highlighting this point since, I completely forgot about this aspect of the equation. I have, somewhere in my files, an article on this very subject. The article, highlights what you have brought forward. In fact, it speaks about people who are NOT in WD and how negatively affected they become when exposed to LCD monitors due to the electromagnetic waves.

 

I haven't been well enough to search on-line nor shop for what you have mentioned re: options to shield one from such exposure. I also don't have the extra funds to spend on such extras, not to mention, the act of shopping and have to make such decisions are too much for my CNS at this time. (lol)

 

However, I'm going to make a note of this and try to look into this in the near future. It's so worth the investigation. So, thank you again for bringing this valid point forward for consideration.

 

With all that said, I do have my monitor turned down to the lowest setting in regard to brightness.

 

 

I've never had the zaps per se, but I do get a kind of full body shudder as I'm falling asleep sometimes. I know it's not the same thing as hypnic jerks, but whatever causes hypnic jerks in normal people may be aggravated in us.

 

 

Oh yes, I do get those as well but they aren't psychologically nor emotionally disturbing to me, despite being uncomfortable, since, I understand the biological dynamics that create such symptoms. I don't however understand the mechanism of action with these brain disturbances however, even if I did, it makes no difference I suppose. It is what it is and I have to do what I can to minimize the creation of these events.

 

 

 

Can I ask, what bothers you the most about the zaps at bedtime? Are they painful, frightening, depressing because of what they mean? Are you concerned they're harming you? Do they interfere with your ability to sleep?

 

 

Very good questions and one's that I have asked myself. I think I've expressed some of my thoughts in other posts. The zaps are not painful per se and are not the same in nature to other bodily electrical zaps or events, that I had encountered.

 

For example, for the longest time, I would get this painful, yet boring electrical shock that would start in my heart , proceed to run all the way down my right arm, ending with a piercing electrical painful shock, into the center of the palm of my right hand. That had a distinct pain to it and I will admit that they were scary but I would talk and breathe my way through them to keep myself psychologically rational so I could ride it out, since, I didn't wish to escalate the situation by adding emotional fear into the equation. Had I fed the initial fear that rose up each time, I would have sent my F&F responses into more extreme states thus, created reactive panic attacks.

 

This electric type symptom has lessened in intensity over the course of time where I no longer feel the piercing jolt-like in my heart, nor down my arm. Rather, it is now become a dull, but constant shock like feeling in the pit of the palm of my hand that can go on for a week straight before easing up. But it does ease up for long periods of time now.

 

I also used to get very sharp, ice pick stabbing feelings in my brain that were very painful but were only momentary events, even if repeated. I did not feel any electric activity in those. Rather, they were simply a painful stab/jab effect. I no longer get this symptom.

 

As far as frightening goes, yes, these brain storms feel frightening however, I don't allow them to shoot me into panic fear states. I talk and breathe my way through them and try to distract my mind with a pleasant visual image or thought (although difficult, I make myself do so).

 

In regard to the depressive factor. No, I don't feel the least bit depressed when the events occur, however, overall depression from the time that it's taking to heal, not to mention WD induce depression, are definitely there but is not associated directly with the zaps per se.

 

Next question: "Are you concerned they are harming you?" This is a good question and a feeling that I regularly counteract. TBH, they feel harmful but I remind myself that they have not fried my brain even though it feels like my brain is being fried by these events. I'm still alive, and I've endured so many now so it's testament that I will be able to survive them in the future.

 

I'm concerned that they are harmful in that, this is not how a normal brain should be functioning. No doubt something is wrong and there are overt signs of electrical misfiring going on, since I can hear and feel that this is indeed occurring. It is not, in any way a manifestation of my imagination, nor a over-dramatization of my reactions. BTW, I know you're not implying such. Rather, I'm just expressing the analysis process I've gone through to ensure that I'm accurately defining my problem.

 

So, yes, the concern factor is there but, at the same time, I reassure myself and, most times, I will refrain from computer use or too much television exposure in the latter part of the evening. This can almost guarantee an absence of such events.

 

I also notice that in the latter evening my tolerance for any type of light is compromised. For example, last night, as with most nights. I went to turn off the LR lamp however, I forgot to refrain from looking at the shade (which is black in colour BTW so it's not a bright white shade emitting a strong bright light), and it sent my brain into neurological reactions that required me to immediately divert my eyes, when turning it off. I've had this problem since the beginning of WD and it persists but to a lesser degree than when I was tapering.

 

At the most extreme phases of WD, I couldn't look into a computer monitor for even two seconds without it producing instantaneous violent neurological reactions throughout, not only my brain but my whole CNS, producing tsumanic panic attacks and feeling like I needed immediate medical attention. I even had a CD/clock radio, with a large round illuminated light green face that sent my system into the same severe reactions. I had to give that radio/CD player away since, even looking at, in unplugged state, sent my memory of the events into PTSD like reactions.

 

So, not only light from the computer monitor but also illuminated lights from other sources would shoot my CNS into violent reactions. Even now, a tiny red light from my heating pad produces a strong enough reaction that I have to immediately divert my eyes from it.

 

I did however, have brief spells where this extreme sensitivity would ease up a bit and thus, allowed me to go on-line for a few days to try to research like a mad woman (lol) in an effort to try to help myself through WD.

 

To this day BTW, I have to wear dark sunglasses to tolerate the monitor however, even the dark glasses do not eliminate the effect but rather, reduce the effects. I wear the same dark glasses to watch TV in the late evening. So, I look pretty "cool" all the time (LOL). B)

 

 

Seems to me that I have an article that mentions something to the effect that the pupils, in one's eyes, can remain dilated during WD and thus, this accounts for the extreme sensitivities to light that occur. I have so, so many files to sift through but it's overwhelming for me at this time so I'm relying on memory, which could be a bit off regarding what I have mentioned in this particular section of my post. Also, I don't recall if this was a scientific report or merely someone's hypothesis.

 

I also remember being extremely neurologically affected by the colour "purple". It physically sent violent waves of sickness all over my body, as well as within my brain. I no longer have a problem with this colour.

 

So, in light of how baffled and frustrated I was when I originally started this thread, I believe the feedback from all of you has been immensely productive. If you see where I was in regard to light sensitivities, it becomes clearer that I have made much progress, despite the increase in brain zaps. I spend much time on the computer these days WITHOUT incurring the violent neurological reactions of the past. Yes, I still do have days (especially when in a bad wave) when it can get bad but there has been huge improvements (overall). And the "bad" isn't as severe as it used to be AND, I spend way more time on-line than I have in over 4 years. (taper and post-taper time-line combined).

 

With all this said, I wish to clarify my situation, for the purposes of reducing any fear that may be generated by anyone reading this post, in the present or future. I have forgotten, until reexamining this issue, about one very critical fact regarding WHY I continue to be so sensitized to so many things despite tapering.

 

Yes, I tapered however, my taper, due to complete tolerance WD and paradoxical reactions upon reinstatement from a too aggressive taper the first time, was a fast taper (second time) despite making 10 percent drops in dose. I was forced to make these drops every 14 days during the mid third of my taper and then every 11 days for the last third of my taper. Making smaller dose reductions wasn't an option since, it would not hold back the tolerance factor. Long story.

 

Anyway, it occurred to me last night that it shouldn't be surprising just how strong my CNS reactions are at this stage in WD.

 

However, with that said, this WD experience, despite a rapid taper (which is better than a C/T) is far more debilitating than all my previous C/T WD experiences. It's a very long and traumatizing story that I can't even get into at this time, since my goal is to focus on recovery and to block out the events that lead up to the development of tolerance and the taper I had to endure. That story can't even be told at this point. (lol). However, I will quickly mentioned, that my brain and CNS has been exposed to so many C/T, cold switches, multiple psyche drugs etc. that my current situation (which I must remind myself about) is not the manifestation of this LAST drug experience but also the effect of a brain that has been exposed to prior assaults.

 

The positive aspect, which I focus on, is that I am surviving, I'm recovering (although slower than I wish and expected) and I will continue to recover. I will stay the course no matter how long it takes.

 

With all that said, the inability to use the computer is a huge issue for me since, I was so deprived of such access and interaction, for long months at a time, and for so long and I was rendered to complete silence, with ear plugs, ear protectors, darkness and social isolation to the max, while tapering and thus, anything the places me back into the "isolation mode" really brings up a lot of intense memories which then increases the depression factor. (lol)

 

Using the computer allows me to engage on some levels and thus, rids the isolation factor which, in turn keeps the WD induced depression at bay, not to mention the exogenous depression in check. (lol)

 

At present, within this wave, I can't even talk on the phone since having to think too much, on the spot, not to mention, having to project my voice beyond my comfort level, as well as experiencing the rise of emotions being generated (whether good or bad) within me, as well as the other person, sends my CNS into overload, wiring it for hours afterwards.

 

The computer, on the other hand, allows me to regulate the flow of my thoughts and emotions which is much easier on my CNS in that regard. However, I pay a price for utilizing the computer too much by creating brain zaps and/or a real wired feeling/anxiety etc. (lol). So, it is a loss not to able to utilize it, especially when I cannot socially interact via phone, or the outside world but I have to remind myself that this is temporary and not permanent.

 

In any case, I'm trying to see the positive in this re: perhaps I can now move into engaging in an activity outside, due to nicer weather approaching. I think this is a good thing and a good stage of recovery to even think of doing such a things, since, last summer and the summer before, environmental sounds, such as the leaves rustling in the breeze, or even the breeze itself, was extremely assaulting to my brain and body.

 

I am blessed. I can feel outside elements with a larger degree of comfort.

 

Healing, thank you so much again for spending time and effort to provoke some critical thinking via your questions and recommendations. I'm going to save this thread to re-read IF I become baffled again. Many times I voluntarily lock my mind into managing the moment, with as much grace as possible, however, in doing so, it can block out my whole story, thus produces an inaccurate assumption of what is currently taking place at this stage in my recovery.

 

Fact: more brain zaps

Cause: computer exposure in evening hours.

Solution: get off the damn computer (lol)

 

Fact: I've been able to use the computer for more hours, for more days than ever before. That is major progress when compared to what I have articulated in the above paragraphs.

 

I've just been trying to jump back into life a bit quicker than what my brain and CNS are prepared for. It's natural to start testing the waters, during different phases of WD in an effort to gauge what we can now take on and what we need to proceed cautiously with. Sometimes we become a bit too enthusiastic .......and land up discovering that we can't swim as far or in deep waters, without wearing water wings to keep afloat (lol).

 

I'll just be thankful that I can even step into the water and engage. Sure, I'm going to have to park myself alone on the beach, between swims, for some "time out" but it's not the end of my life or world, even though it can feel like it at times. :D

 

I just have to wait things out for a bit longer and yes, this means I have to deal with the "aloneness factor" for a bit more time, but c'est la vie. It's important to bring a problem forward to work on it but it's pointless to be attached to the problem. Rather, I will deal with it in my own Punarian Way and focus on creative solutions. (LOL)

 

 

Forgive me if I've been repetitive. My mind still tends to go in circles, if I think too long. (lol) I've written this post in segments, with breaks in between and have tried to edit via the same means however my brain gets lost and overwhelmed trying to do so and thus, I've likely not been successful at presenting things in the best manner.

 

 

Much More Beautiful Healing to You Healing and Everyone!

 

 

Punar

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Healing

I'm so glad you allowed yourself to say your whole truth and utilize SA to work through your concerns. It is so important that this be a board where people feel they can say their whole truth -- no matter how long, how hard, how scary their w/d is being. And it really seems like it was very therapeutic for you to think this through, so that's terrific.:)

 

Rather, than focusing on these recent events, I need to look at the greater picture. When I look at "how far I've come, the current degree of these zaps, makes more sense. Yes, I'm incurring more zaps, however, they are laughable compared to the intense and violent neurological reactions I used to have to the computer and other sources of light.

OK, so this is a very relieving realization!

 

TBH, they feel harmful but I remind myself that they have not fried my brain even though it feels like my brain is being fried by these events. I'm still alive, and I've endured so many now so it's testament that I will be able to survive them in the future. I'm concerned that they are harmful in that, this is not how a normal brain should be functioning. No doubt something is wrong and there are overt signs of electrical misfiring going on, since I can hear and feel that this is indeed occurring.

I think it's important to emphasize that there is a big range of what kind of neurological electrical activity is possible. That mention of L'hermitte's being a distant relative of epilepsy may have had a big impact on you. You know from your years of experience in the w/d community that zaps don't lead to epilepsy or anything like that.

 

I don't know if you're interested in this, but Kundalini awakenings are often characterized by unusual neurological electrical activity, that is not harmful. Ironically, since we're talking about the computer harming you, people sometimes find that *they* harm their computers with their strange electrical surges in their bodies / fields.

 

Also, although the zaps clearly have an element of "over-shooting," contrary to your fears, I actually wonder if your brain is re-organizing itself in a more synchronized way. There's a ton of research being done on how meditation and brain entrainment technology increases brain synchronization which is very beneficial in many ways.

 

So, not only light from the computer monitor but also illuminated lights from other sources would shoot my CNS into violent reactions.

It certainly sounds like light is triggering you neurologically. No question about that. But I was wondering if your posture while on the computer might be a contributing factor. L'hermitte's can be triggered by head position. I personally find it difficult to find a posture that really works for me, what with the neuro neck and back problems. I find it helps to wear one of those cervical collars, and to get up and walk around every 15 minutes.

 

With regard to the light and other EMF, are you on a laptop or can you move the keyboard farther from the screen and motherboard?

 

So, I look pretty "cool" all the time (LOL). B)

Style is so important. Keep up the good work. :)

 

I also remember being extremely neurologically affected by the colour "purple".

Hunh. You may be sensitive to that particular EM wavelength!

 

With all that said, the inability to use the computer is a huge issue for me since, I was so deprived of such access and interaction, for long months at a time, and for so long

This is why I would like to keep trying to find an alternative to your having to withdraw from the computer / Internet, for your sake and for ours. SA is vital to your healing, and you are vital to ours! So, let's keep brainstorming. :)

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Altostrata

Pun --

 

Lhermitte's is a cousin of epilepsy. Epilepsy is a fairly broad term; as put by the Epilepsy Foundation: "Essentially brief temporary changes in the brain's electrical system produce a sudden overload."

 

Having zaps doesn't mean you have epilepsy, it means you have electrical activity.

 

As Healing said, posture may play a role. When I was having painful electrical tingling in my shoulders, arms, wrists and hands (another Lhermitte's symptom), my chiropractor, a brilliant diagnostician, traced it back to a particular vertabra and nerve branch compressed by my hunching over the computer.

 

I think blue (or purple) light may be a more intense signal to the brain than other light. Blue light is used in chronotherapy for specific circadian rhythm disorders where the brain needs stimulation. Conversely, to reduce stimulation, there are special dark amber glasses to block blue light, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/304-blocking-out-blue-light-to-help-sleep/

 

Computer monitor filters are also available from https://www.lowbluelights.com/products.asp?cid=16 -- Pun, I highly recommend you get one of these. We don't want to lose you!

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Punarbhava

Dear Sur and Healing........

 

 

just wanted to take a few moments to thank you both, so very much, for the feedback and the info.!

 

 

I've only quickly scanned but cannot process your posts ATM, due to not feeling well, but I'm going to print this all out and review in hard copy (easier for me), as soon as I can.

 

 

Again, I so appreciate your efforts!!

 

 

Punar

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angie007

Well, well, well, am i happy to be reading this thread,

I have tried so hard to explain to so many the weird sensations ihave been having in my head and body,

and for want of knowing what they were called referred to them as "brain shivers and brain shudders"

on looking up brain zaps on wikipeadia, i see there, that others have referred to them in the same way.

I am relieved to know what they are, as they have been a worry to me.

Can these brain shivers/shocks also be felt in the body? an can they make you feel a little weird?

Because at certain times, that exactly what i have been experiencing, and i have spent so much time

crying and worried, as i didnt know what they were.

 

Also Sur, thankyou for mentioning above those weird tingly/pain feelings in your arm and shoulder,

I get those too, and yes, your probably right, too much time hunched over the keyboard.

 

May i take this opportunity to tell you all, that over there, on that unnamed site, where paxil

is denied to death, they couldnt even put my mind at rest over a brain shiver???????

I got told, she had never heard of it??? it wasnt paxil wd???, it could be hormones or

yes!!!! u got it flipping ANMXIETY!!!! yet again.

What a croc that site is, its a disgrace, to offer advice, but never want to blame the true culprit.

Rant over, thankyou, i will sleep easier tonight now.

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angie007

Just before i go, can i ask please,

these brain zaps?? can they alter in intensity?? sometimes feeling electrical,

and other times feel more like brain shivers and brain shudders, does anyone know.

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Healing

Yes, Angie, I think there's a spectrum of these things, ranging from something that feels like a strong electrical shock in one location (usually the head) all the way to something that feels like a shudder passing through your whole body.

 

I associate the bedtime shudders I get with the electrical zaps because they are different from "hypnic jerks," which are normal, and which I have had occasionally throughout my life. These shudders, for me, feel as if they start at the upper left of me and proceed down and out through the lower right of me.

 

So, I think there's a "family" of phenomena that are related and vary in intensity and feel.

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Punarbhava

Dear Healing and Sur......

 

 

I wanted to take a few moments to express my gratitude for all the efforts you have both put forth assisting and researching regarding this topic. I've been unable to read anything lengthy on-line and my printer cartridge has run dry so I haven't been able to print out your posts etc. Not to mention, I'm very congnitively challenged and can't seem to mentally process any "new" information ATM.

 

As soon as I'm well enough, I will purchase a printer cartridge and I'm going to look into finding a local place that sells the monitor filter and glasses since, it's evident that this particular sensitivity is going to be with me for some time to come.

 

I kept thinking it would go away since, I do have spells where is does ease up to a more manageable degree (although still challenging). These past couple of weeks, it's gotten bad again (even during the day) and thus, I've been unable to review all that you have posted. I've only scanned the contents.

 

Please know that I never, for a moment, take for granted the kind efforts you have both put forth. I sincerely apologize for not responding more fully and hope to be able to do so as soon as this wave eases up.

 

In the meantime, I'm trying to distract in short intervals while at the same time, refraining from over-exposing myself to the computer.

 

Thank you both so very much and hope to, not only respond more fully, but also to participate more.

 

With Deep Appreciation,

 

 

Pun

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Healing

I've been thinking of you, PB. And missing you here. And sending you good energy. I know you're doing your healing work. More power to you! :)

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squirrel

been experiencing brain zaps after 6 years off they are in my head and the back of my neck had a lot of them today how odd.

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Punarbhava

Dear Healing........

 

I have left your text in black and placed mine in colour.

 

 

I'm so glad you allowed yourself to say your whole truth and utilize SA to work through your concerns. It is so important that this be a board where people feel they can say their whole truth -- no matter how long, how hard, how scary their w/d is being. And it really seems like it was very therapeutic for you to think this through, so that's terrific.

 

 

Your spiritual generosity is very much felt and appreciated. It is a gift to not only myself, but all who will read your words in the present and future. Thank you for this, as well as ALL of the time, support and assistance you have generously provided!

 

 

I think it's important to emphasize that there is a big range of what kind of neurological electrical activity is possible.

 

 

Yes, indeed and you are so right to emphasize this.

 

I'm trying to view myself as being one electrifying chick at this stage of WD (LOL). Don't mind me, I have to place a humorous spin on things so I don't become bonded to the traumas and/or the victimization of WD.

 

 

That mention of L'hermitte's being a distant relative of epilepsy may have had a big impact on you.

 

 

It did have an impact on me in way of making a sound decision to return to my original disciplined schedule that I had adhered to for so long, prior to these recent few weeks.

 

I don't have to worry about the zaps if I eliminate the cause. I'm glad Sur posted the info.

 

So, Sur's post didn't rattle my system anymore than what anger does. I can still get shot into panic like physiological reactions easily. (lol).

 

I quickly explored the L'hermite's links that Sur provided and indeed I concur with what you have stated. With that said, I truly appreciate your reassuring words. I always felt as if I was experiencing mini, but milder form of seizures and this is why I religiously stayed off the computer in the late evening for the longest time. However, lately, I THOUGHT I was doing a bit better, in way of computer exposure and thus, decided to engage in the forbidden (lol) only to find out that the number of zaps dramatically increased in numbers, as a consequence.

 

NOt to mention, this past month has been horrible and thus, I couldn't even expose myself to the computer much during the day. While I do not incur zaps from daytime computer exposure, I do incur other strong CNS reactions (especially when in a bad wave) that can render me incapable of constructing posts, emails etc. , hence, my inability to respond to your and Sur's posts sooner.

 

 

There also seems to be a cummulative negative effect that occurs. It's no different than any other type of stressor during WD. Long exposure creates a cummulative negative effect. Even short exposure (during a wave) to a stressor can set off the CNS to escalate to further agitated states. I've come to realize that if I work on the computer for too many days, for too long each day (pushing too much) I incur a cummulative negative effect that takes time to subside.

 

Similar to the carbohydrate effect. eg. eating one carb as opposed to a meal full of carbs (lol) OR eating carbs for one day may be okay but eating such for many days, creates a cummulative effect that really upsets the endocrine system in a way that can take a long while to settle down once the carbs are completely removed.

 

Forgive me, but my mind is still not well and I'm having difficulty relaying and constructing my thoughts ATM.

 

 

You know from your years of experience in the w/d community that zaps don't lead to epilepsy or anything like that.

 

 

Yes, I do understand but I'm glad you wrote this since, this will be reassuring to others. Thank you for taking the time to reassure! With that said, I do agree with Sur's comment re: it's just not good to put my brain through that type of activity IF it can be avoided.

 

 

I don't know if you're interested in this, but Kundalini awakenings are often characterized by unusual neurological electrical activity, that is not harmful.

 

 

Well perhaps I'm unaware of being Kundalini'd and thus, heading for a very rude awakening. (lol)

 

TBH, I don't know much about Kundalini awakenings and I tried to read your post about it but I became mentally overwhelmed and physically challenged by trying to read lengthy material on-line.

 

I do much better printing out information and reviewing it in hard copy and utilizing my yellow high-lighter to hone in our key concepts/ideas/info/facts etc.. Even then, I can only digest bits at a time since cognitive overload occurs when I try to think too much, for too long. (lol)

 

 

Ironically, since we're talking about the computer harming you, people sometimes find that *they* harm their computers with their strange electrical surges in their bodies / fields.

 

 

Well, I'd feel pretty powerful IF I could zap my computer right back. (lol) Let the Kundalini Power Begin! (lol). Joking aside, your paragraph above sounds similar in nature to reports of spontaneous human combustion in that the body goes into some sort of over-drive mode etc. I know little about either of these subjects so I may be way off in equating similarities between Kundalini and combustion phenomenons.

 

I'll have to look into this Kundalini stuff. It seems pretty mysterious. Has there been any scientific explanations or measurements for these events to validate their existence and/or to explain the biological dynamics involved and what provokes them and why?

 

I suppose I can just research this and save you the trouble of responding. I'm just thinking out loud ATM. Perhaps I'll ask my questions in the thread you created on this very subject, which I have only quickly scanned.

 

It will be an interesting subject to explore over the summer. Perhaps I will print out your posts along with some other research, sit outside to take in a few rays while I educate myself in an new area.

 

 

Also, although the zaps clearly have an element of "over-shooting," contrary to your fears, I actually wonder if your brain is re-organizing itself in a more synchronized way.

 

 

No doubt my brain is "over-shooting" and/or misfiring. In regard to the "re-organizing in a more synchronized way". That's something to ponder. As mentioned in previous posts, new symptoms show up, old ones reappear and can intensify which really is the manifestation of re-organization in action.

 

In the earlier days of WD it also increased akathisia, panic attacks and whole host of bizarre neurological reactions. So, no doubt the computer creates further imbalances: adding insult to injury and it's best for me to pace myself more responsibly. I'm likely missing your point and if so, please forgive me. I feel like my brain is going into overload mode and I better post this soon before I keep it stored in my draft folder for another few weeks (lol)

 

 

There's a ton of research being done on how meditation and brain entrainment technology increases brain synchronization which is very beneficial in many ways.

 

 

I very much agree with your excellent recommendation. I highly recommend utilizing such strategies during WD, as one is able and as often as possible.

 

 

It certainly sounds like light is triggering you neurologically. No question about that. But I was wondering if your posture while on the computer might be a contributing factor. L'hermitte's can be triggered by head position. I personally find it difficult to find a posture that really works for me, what with the neuro neck and back problems. I find it helps to wear one of those cervical collars, and to get up and walk around every 15 minutes.

 

 

I'm so sorry to hear that you must contend with these symptoms. It doesn't sound pleasant at all and I hope these symptoms ease up for you in the very near future.

 

Thank you for the suggestions Healing. Most of my posts and emails are written off-line and in increments (segments) since, it's not possible for me to sit for any length of time constructing anything lengthy due to computer sensitivities.

 

I don't seem to have any posture related problems that trigger brain neurological symptoms but it's likely due to the fact, that I don't sit for long spells. With that said, it was an excellent and valid point to bring forward since, this could affect many people.

 

 

 

With regard to the light and other EMF, are you on a laptop or can you move the keyboard farther from the screen and motherboard?

 

 

Another good suggestion Healing. I have a desktop and I do try to sit as far away from the monitor as possible however, I'd have to sit on the other side of the room to avoid the effects (lol). I measured the distance and I sit 20 - 21 inches from the monitor.

 

I implement a number of simultaneous strategies in an effort to reduce the negative effects of the computer but they are not cures by any means. Rather, they offer slight results. My sensitivities can still become intense at times (such as lately) and even on my okish days, I still feel the effects if I over-indulge.

 

I seem to incur a cumulative effect (sensitization) that occurs despite short intervals of use. In the late evenings however, it takes only a few minutes before I experience a profound enough after-effect. I become more sensitive to all forms of light in the latter part of the evening, including the TV, lamps etc.

 

 

Quote

 

I wrote: So, I look pretty "cool" all the time (LOL).

 

 

Your response: Style is so important. Keep up the good work.

 

 

In regard to the sunglasses and style. (lol) Well, I've even tried to double my style (wearing one pair of sunglasses over another pair) however, it is so hard to see through the double lens factor. (lol). Despite that fact, I persevered a few times, believing that the "double protection" would produce positive results. I was shocked to discover that I still experienced brain zaps afterwards (although of milder intensity but it did not reduce the number of zaps).

 

As for how fashionable I look? You can imagine how elegant I look sporting two pair of glasses. (lol). I choose to delude myself into believing that I'm just waaay too sexy for my computer (lol) due to the double fashion factor. (lol)

 

 

Quote

 

I wrote: I also remember being extremely neurologically affected by the colour "purple".

 

Your response: Hunh. You may be sensitive to that particular EM wavelength!

 

 

I suppose I didn't relay my thoughts very clearly in my previous post. My reaction to "purple" was not due to purple light but rather, just the colour itself. I was knitting these dish cloths (mindless, repetitive endeavour) during the worse of my WD days, as a means to retain a degree of sanity (lol) and I had some purple yarn that I could not use (despite repeated attempts) I literally felt violently sick trying to work with that colour. Consequently, I had to get it out of sight (threw it in a drawer).

 

I was able to work with all other colours (even red, yellow) without incurring any severe neurological reactions. Strange how the colour purple triggered such a severe reaction. I wish I could say that I'm exaggerating but honestly, it was a violent neurological reaction that took place. I haven't done any research on this subject since, it's not a huge issue for me at this time and in the past, I was too sick to research many subjects, not to mention using the computer was out of the question in those days.

 

Today, I'm using "purple text" colour and I'm okish with it. Other days, the purple text can me feel sickish (although not violently as in earier days).

 

 

 

This is why I would like to keep trying to find an alternative to your having to withdraw from the computer / Internet, for your sake and for ours. SA is vital to your healing, and you are vital to ours! So, let's keep brainstorming.

 

 

Thank you again for the amazing effort and care you have extended Healing! I'm in the process of finding a monitor filter as well as the amber glasses. I hope these will reduce the ill-effects. I'll give that I try first. In regard to "brainstorming": my brain is storming enough thank you very much (lol) and I wouldn't wish it upon anyone, other than the doctors who deny these WD events and/or try to write them off as anxiety related.

 

One other problem is THINKING. Being on the computer requires a lot of mental work and that, in of itself, taxes my CNS. I have to take a lot of "dumb down" time since, if I don't I become even dumber when I push myself to think for too long.

 

Sincere thanks for all your help Ms. Healing. I'll report back once I've given the two options a good trial.

 

BTW, Healing, I have few real interesting articles regarding computer sensitivies that I will be posting once, I have more time and brain power to short out the key points. I also have to wait until my computer sensitities settle down a bit more. I wanted to respond to your post, Sur's and few others before constructing any new posts.

 

 

Much More Beautiful Healing to You!

 

Pun

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Punarbhava

I've been thinking of you, PB. And missing you here. And sending you good energy. I know you're doing your healing work. More power to you! :)

 

 

Thank you for this lovely post Healing!! It's evident to me, that you are one spiritual GEM.....too precious to be taken for granted.

 

 

BTW, I forgot to mention in my last long post, no pressure at all for you to respond anything I posted. I was just sharing and expanding/clarififying and elborating for the sake of others (in the present or future) who may incur similar sensitivities, as well as acknowledging and responding to your efforts.

 

 

I'm so sorry your journey has been so long. It's so hard isn't it? I sincerely wish you continued and complete healing in the very near future.

 

 

Punar

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Punarbhava

Sur.....

 

no need to respond to this post. I'm just acknowledging your efforts and sharing a few thoughts.

 

Thank you so much for all your assistance, time you spent researching and posting the links, as well your support in this matter.

 

 

Lhermitte's is a cousin of epilepsy. Epilepsy is a fairly broad term; as put by the Epilepsy Foundation: "Essentially brief temporary changes in the brain's electrical system produce a sudden overload."

 

Having zaps doesn't mean you have epilepsy, it means you have electrical activity.

 

Thank you for the clarifications and I do understand what you have mentioned. No doubt my brain is experiencing some type of electrical overload but TBH, they do feel like mini-seizures since, these are different than the original brain zaps I got when I first got off the AD. The original zaps didn't have this "warning" effect. They just happened instantaneously.

 

I think the "warning effect" can be considered similar to an "aura" effect that is experienced with those who have seizures and/or migraines (from what I understand). With that said, I don't wish to dramatize my situation into being more than what it actually is, while at the same time, not minimizing what is happening (which I tend to do most times).

 

I used to incur hormonal migraines but I never had any of the aura effect that many people seem to report. I've also had the brain zaps with and without the "warning washover" effect. So something different is happening from the 14th month mark to this day. With that said, I'm not seriously worried about it. I just need to understand it and work with the situation since, I'm more interested in solving or managing the problem by taking action via implementing various strategies/harm reduction and preventative methods so I can solve the problem, or at least, minimize the intensity and frequency of the problem. This is far more productive than complaining endlessly about the problem. (lol).

 

With that said, it's been extremely interesting and informative to utilize the "putting a few minds together" method. So, I'm very much grateful for your knowledge and feedback.

 

 

As Healing said, posture may play a role. When I was having painful electrical tingling in my shoulders, arms, wrists and hands (another Lhermitte's symptom), my chiropractor, a brilliant diagnostician, traced it back to a particular vertabra and nerve branch compressed by my hunching over the computer.

 

 

Sorry to hear that you had to deal with those symptoms and I hope things have improved on that front. Good to hear that you had a great chiropractor who was able to identify the cause.

 

Upon reinstatement, throughout my taper and post taper, I regularly experience all types of painful electrical symptoms in various parts of my body. Like you, I experience them in my hands, wrists, but also on my scalp, thighs, feet, arms etc. etc. however, the causes are not at all related to my posture, although I do understand and can appreciated what you have articulated, as well as what you have had to contend with.

 

 

I incur this intense prickly, painful skin sensations that are electrically charged. I literally can feel electricity in the prickling and these sensations manifest independent from posture or body positions. They're just neurological skin sensations and they are definitely different than the burning sensations (had those as well). Doxepin (sedating tricyclic) is prescribed for various skin conditions and thus, the rebound skin sensations upon tolerance or WD from this med completely makes sense.

 

Sur, do you think you may have a bit of carpal tunnel syndrome in combo with the vertebrae issue?

 

 

I think blue (or purple) light may be a more intense signal to the brain than other light. Blue light is used in chronotherapy for specific circadian rhythm disorders where the brain needs stimulation.

 

 

Ah, now this is interesting. Thank you for sharing this Sur! As I clarified with Healing, my reaction to purple was not from light source but rather, simply the colour itself. With that said, I do fully comprehend what you have relayed re: chronotherapy, circadian rhythms, signaling intensities to the brain etc.

 

 

Conversely, to reduce stimulation, there are special dark amber glasses to block blue light, see http://survivinganti...-to-help-sleep/

 

 

Thank you for this link!

 

 

I do wear the darkest pair of brown/amber sunglasses available and they do help a bit. I tried dark black sunglasses and they do not help at all. The monitor light goes right through them.

 

As well, I find that having a light source behind my back, but shining towards the computer, reduces the glare effect. The back light has to be of a certain intensity though. The light source has to be strong enough to off-set (or compete) with the monitor light (if that makes any sense).

 

For awhile, I tried setting up a floor lamp behind my steno chair but it was not helpful. I believe the shade prevented casting the correct intensity of light needed (perhaps it was too concentrated in one area to provide an overall beneficial effect). So, I removed the shade but it produced too strong a back drop and too concentrated. (lol)

 

Consequently, I now turn on my ceiling chandelier to create a wider scope of back light and it seems to reduce the intensity of the monitor light. Although I still must wear my dark sunglasses.

 

BTW, I quickly scanned an article that I just found yesterday and it seems that there was a method to my maddness (lol). Seems like I had figured out a few things via trial and error, coupled with observation etc. I will post the article in a few days. I know you will find it quite interesting and thus, it will contribute and add to this topic.

 

 

 

Computer monitor filters are also available from https://www.lowbluel...ucts.asp?cid=16 -- Pun, I highly recommend you get one of these. We don't want to lose you!

 

 

Again, thank you so much on both account's Sur. I looked into the site but they only seem to carry filters for laptops. I called my local Business Depot and they don't stock this item but mentioned they can special order.

 

In the meantime, I'm going to get out to Home Depot to try to find a pair of blue blocking goggles. I called a nearby hardware store but they do not carry this item.

 

BTW, the on-line link you posted, displayed the goggles and the bright orange colour of the glasses made me cringe. I thought, "there's no way I'm going to be able to tolerate looking through those things". (lol). However, it may be a completely different feeling when wearing and thus, I'm going to give them a try.

 

I prefer to purchase such things locally since, IF they are ineffective, at least I have the option to return them for a full refund without having to pay for shipping etc.

 

 

Anyway, I've been too sick to get out but hope to be able to do so this week.

 

Thank you again Sur!! So appreciate your time, effort and the spirit behind your supportive intentions.

 

 

Punar

 

 

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Healing

Well, you've done a great job of really thinking things through, PB, and figuring out what you need. You've done a lot of work on this computer / zaps issue. You're incredibly knowledgeable, remarkably persevering, and you have a wonderful sense of humor. I look forward to seeing how you come out of this dark period. You're going to have the power to do amazing things.

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Punarbhava

Well, you've done a great job of really thinking things through, PB, and figuring out what you need. You've done a lot of work on this computer / zaps issue. You're incredibly knowledgeable, remarkably persevering, and you have a wonderful sense of humor. I look forward to seeing how you come out of this dark period. You're going to have the power to do amazing things.

 

 

Well, you and Sur have been an integral part of this process.

 

 

Thank you so much for taking the tme to share so many kind and generous remarks! Somehow I take no pride in any of this and perhaps I should or maybe one day I will.

 

 

As you know, from your own life experiences (as evident in your posts) one is forced to become far more knowledgeable than one even wished to become. (lol) The lengths we need to go to ......to not only understand our situation but also to protect our present and future health. :blink:

 

 

While it's wonderful to evolve, one can begin to feel evolutionally or evolutionarily depleted. (lol).....Oh, that's it.........I'm currently suffering from EDD (Evolutionary Depletion Disorder).

 

 

The Cure: Evolutionary Disruption Interventions via Intensive Dumb Down Therapy Sessions.........to purge the mind of information overload and to rest the spirit for an extended period of time. The goal is to JUST BE. ..............temporarily removal of all goals and achievement oriented behaviors. Most importantly, rid the self of Type A behaviors. (lol)

 

Oh, I better just post this before I become even more ridiculous (lol).

 

 

Anyway, hope to post a few papers on the Zap Subject after I engage in Massive Dumb Down sessions.

 

 

Thank you again Ms. Healing! Beautiful Peace, Healing and FULL Recovery to You!

 

 

Punar

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Altostrata

Skaehill 1997 SSRI Withdrawal Syndrome says this about "brain zaps" or the shock-like sensations of antidepressant withdrawal:

 

The cause of withdrawal syndrome following discontinuation of SSRIs is unknown, but the electric shock sensations reported with neck flexion are identical to Lhermitte's sign, which appears with dysfunction of the posterior spinal cord. This suggests change at a neuronal level.

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Rhiannon

"This suggests change at a neuronal level."

 

what, ya think?

 

You mean drugs that f** up your neurotransmitters might f** you up at a neuronal level? Ya think?

 

That's from 1997 but apparently most doctors and psychiatrists haven't gotten around to reading it...a little behind on their reading list I guess...

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Altostrata

It takes a couple of PHARMACISTS who have no stake in prescribing to notice there's a problem.

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Barbarannamated

"This suggests change at a neuronal level."

 

what, ya think?

 

You mean drugs that f** up your neurotransmitters might f** you up at a neuronal level? Ya think?

 

That's from 1997 but apparently most doctors and psychiatrists haven't gotten around to reading it...a little behind on their reading list I guess...

 

 

Love that dirty nerdy talkin'!

 

What happened to Healing? Very interesting and zen-like virtual aura. ;)

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Altostrata

Healing decided to spend her time on other things.

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Barbarannamated

Just noticed that was from ASCP. Consultant Pharmacists are an interesting group. I don't know their whole scope of practice, but I worked with CPs in Skilled NursingFacilities and they had authority to nix MD orders if they were outside of OBRA guidelines. They reviewed meds on every resident on a regular basis to minimize risk of polydrugging, esp w regard to chemical restraints. The ones I worked with ran rings around MDs. They may be a possible advocate/partner.

Or maybe you've already discussed this. Of course, some did have pharma ties.

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Altostrata

If they can prescribe, we can add them to our roster of helpful doctors, etc.

 

I corresponded with Dr. Welch. He said he hasn't done any more work with withdrawal syndrome. But maybe you can persuade him to do some lecturing to medical groups or GPs, Bar.

 

Dr. Skaehill is retired.

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Shanti

 

I don't know if you're interested in this, but Kundalini awakenings are often characterized by unusual neurological electrical activity, that is not harmful. Ironically, since we're talking about the computer harming you, people sometimes find that *they* harm their computers with their strange electrical surges in their bodies / fields.

This is very interesting as I've experienced it and not only did I know I was shorting out my USBs on my computer through the mouse, but my son was getting aggravated about it and bought me a wireless mouse. So far, I haven't shorted out the USB this way. But before this, I would go through a mouse every month and eventually fried every one of my USBs. I got a new computer now and have only fried one of the USB ports.

 

I have been reading this whole thread and wish that Punar was still an active member. Very insightful, humorous and articulate. I'm getting much from this thread from all involved. I don't know why I never read the whole thing before.

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