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StillChill: Olanzapine 2.5mg and Mirtazapine 22.5mg


StillChill

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I think certain drinking patterns can bring up trauma.  Not exactly like psychedelics might, but also not miles away.

 

It seems likely you have unprocessed trauma to deal with.  Maybe seek a trauma specialist clinical psychologist and try some EMDR if they are agreeable and find it appropriate.

 

I know this is true enough for me because if I practice these drinking patterns during times of heavy triggers, I can pretty reliably demonstrate flashbacks.  And be fit for duty within a day or two as required.  And simply not experience the issues on duty to the point they would make me unfit.

I am certainly not suggesting you would want to take this approach, I am not sure my therapist would approve even.  However it makes it very clear that unprocessed trauma is the root of such issues.  Also validated by the same drinking patterns normally being fine, if not in trigger-rich times.

 

However, you mention rekindling, and know your own nervous system best.  YMMV and take care.

Cheers

I am not a health professional - your actions are your own.  

Please do not seek tapering support via private message - "Any reason to hold is a good one"

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

Backdrop:  2003 10mg olanzapine | 2004 2-3mg risperidone | end 2014 3wks aripiprazole

2015: olanzapine  10 -> 7½ -> 6⅔ -> 5mg  by crude pill cutter

2018:  Mar 5.00mg -> water titrated taper -> Aug2.5mg tablet and hold

Jan 2019 2.50mg water titration -> Jan 2020 1.214  -> Jan 2021 0.44 -> 2 Oct 0.205 ->3 Oct ZERO🥂

Jun 2023 💉150mg paliperidone "loading" depot shot, 100mg 1wk after Jul 100mg Aug-Dec 75mg/4wks

Jul 2023 2.50mg aripiprazole/day attempt to lower prolactin^

Jan-Feb 2024 cross taper off shots to 1mg risperidone

 

Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country did to you"  -- KMFDM

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23 hours ago, StillChill said:

Started 22.5mg on February 17th. 

 

Since it's just short of a month, you might not be fully adapted to it yet and be able to get away with reducing to 15mg right off.

 

After that, I would stabilize for some weeks and plan how to taper the rest, because you've been taking at least 15mg longer than a month.

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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FWIW, what Alto suggests is what I'd do in your shoes. 

HRT 50mg oestrogen patch.

St John's Wort 500mg-4000mg 2012-Feb 2022 > WD > 7.5mg Mirt April 2022 > jumped off to 10-25mg Endep > 7.5mg Mirt mid-2022.

Valium 2.5-5mg sporadically between June-Oct 2023.

October 2023 onset hypnic jerks interfering with sleep (Mirt side effect exacerbated by stress/anxiety)

Early Jan 6, 2023, 5-day taper from 7.5 to 3.75 (with Temazepam supplementation for sleep).

Discontinued Jan 13, 2023 > WD (insomnia especially stubborn).

Increased to 100mg oestrogen and commenced 100mg progesterone (insomnia started with menopause; now 8 yrs post-menopausal).

Reinstated 7.5 Feb 23, 2023, stupid sliding dose: 4 nights 7.5 > 2 nights 3/4 of a 15mg pill > 1 night 7.5 > 2 nights 3/4 15mg > 15mg.

March 4, 2023, dropped to 7.5 (some WD insomnia) > stabilising and sleeping on 7.5.

April 5, 2023, started 10% taper > 6.75mg, April 30 > 6.08mg, May 26 > 5.47mg - sorry, I've missed noting a couple, now on 3.64mg as of 12/8/23 - apologies, have been tardy updating; currently at 2.7mg on the Brassmonkey Slide - quick update: 2.25mg as of 24/3/24.

Supplements: magnesium, melatonin 2mg, Omega 3.

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22 hours ago, hayduke said:

I think certain drinking patterns can bring up trauma.  Not exactly like psychedelics might, but also not miles away.

 

It seems likely you have unprocessed trauma to deal with.  Maybe seek a trauma specialist clinical psychologist and try some EMDR if they are agreeable and find it appropriate.

 

I know this is true enough for me because if I practice these drinking patterns during times of heavy triggers, I can pretty reliably demonstrate flashbacks.  And be fit for duty within a day or two as required.  And simply not experience the issues on duty to the point they would make me unfit.

I am certainly not suggesting you would want to take this approach, I am not sure my therapist would approve even.  However it makes it very clear that unprocessed trauma is the root of such issues.  Also validated by the same drinking patterns normally being fine, if not in trigger-rich times.

 

However, you mention rekindling, and know your own nervous system best.  YMMV and take care.

Cheers


You are very right. It does all relate to trauma, trauma I was running from for years, over and over again. I do believe anxiety exist from suppressing it, and in our society it’s something you try to burry in the mean time so you can work/school/advance/survive. 
 

I was just thinking about this before I read your comment. It’s the fear that takes hold of us, and we give in, and I have done that many times, sold my future for some relief now. It’s an unfortunate burden to bare, but I hope the fact that I am aware of it gives me something. I realized I can’t cry anymore, like at all, and that makes me sadder than most things. I didn’t do it often, but when I did allow myself to do so, the relief was like nothing else. 
 

However this whole thing started because I found myself suppressing things again, and not listening to heart/soul, which for a while was enriched and strong, until the reminders came of trauma came back around. 

January 3rd: Hydroxyzine off and on 2 weeks

January 5th: 1 time trazodone. 

January 6th 2023: Olanzapine 5mg.
Jan10th 2023: Olanz 2.5 mg.Jan 19th:CT Olan

Jan 22nd 2023: Started Mirtazapine 7.5mg 2 week, 15mg 3 weeks, 22.5 3 weeks.

February 2nd reinstated Olanz 2.5mg. 
February 9th: 1.75mg after side effects. 
February 14th: stopped Olanz

currently only on: 22.5mg Mirtazapine.  

melatonin: 2mg l-theanine: 200mg mag: 300 mg valerian root: 400mg has been usedoff/on

 

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4 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Since it's just short of a month, you might not be fully adapted to it yet and be able to get away with reducing to 15mg right off.

 

After that, I would stabilize for some weeks and plan how to taper the rest, because you've been taking at least 15mg longer than a month.

 

Please let us know how you're doing.


Thank you! 
 

It’s good to hear and also difficult at the same time. Obviously there is some fear involved with making this choice. 
 

@Altostrata

No point in trying a small drop to 20mg for 3 nights and then 15? Trying to wrap my head around if that would be more or less jarring to my CNS. I fear the jerks/jolts coming back. I fear dropping to quickly and permanently being numb. 
 

on a good note: my Apple Watch tracked my sleep last night, I woke up at 3:30 a.m certain that I got the worst sleep all week(which probably still is true) but my watch said I had 5h 18m. Which I will take! 10% deep sleep, 40% core, 20% REM. 

January 3rd: Hydroxyzine off and on 2 weeks

January 5th: 1 time trazodone. 

January 6th 2023: Olanzapine 5mg.
Jan10th 2023: Olanz 2.5 mg.Jan 19th:CT Olan

Jan 22nd 2023: Started Mirtazapine 7.5mg 2 week, 15mg 3 weeks, 22.5 3 weeks.

February 2nd reinstated Olanz 2.5mg. 
February 9th: 1.75mg after side effects. 
February 14th: stopped Olanz

currently only on: 22.5mg Mirtazapine.  

melatonin: 2mg l-theanine: 200mg mag: 300 mg valerian root: 400mg has been usedoff/on

 

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Also, my morning are ROUGH! Super depressed and borderline crazy, but only because my mind turns on an wants to wake me with a thousand thoughts at once, specifically the worst ones that it conjured during rest. I worked all day today, which I haven’t been able to do, forced myself to do it, and I laughed a couple times, but sometimes I feel sad like I’m missing out on the fun, then sometimes I’m in the fun. It’s a difficult rollercoaster of emotion, and I just want to feel something. 
 

The point though, I always tend to feel better in the evenings/nights, I have hope then, not during the mornings though. 

January 3rd: Hydroxyzine off and on 2 weeks

January 5th: 1 time trazodone. 

January 6th 2023: Olanzapine 5mg.
Jan10th 2023: Olanz 2.5 mg.Jan 19th:CT Olan

Jan 22nd 2023: Started Mirtazapine 7.5mg 2 week, 15mg 3 weeks, 22.5 3 weeks.

February 2nd reinstated Olanz 2.5mg. 
February 9th: 1.75mg after side effects. 
February 14th: stopped Olanz

currently only on: 22.5mg Mirtazapine.  

melatonin: 2mg l-theanine: 200mg mag: 300 mg valerian root: 400mg has been usedoff/on

 

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32 minutes ago, StillChill said:

No point in trying a small drop to 20mg for 3 nights and then 15? Trying to wrap my head around if that would be more or less jarring to my CNS. I fear the jerks/jolts coming back. I fear dropping to quickly and permanently being numb. 

 

The longer you stay at the higher dosage, the more likely you will have withdrawal when you reduce. I cannot predict what will happen.  If you feel safer decreasing to 15mg in steps, it's up to you. You need to judge whether the adverse effects you feel at a higher dose are worth risking withdrawal symptoms. Reducing the dosage is likely to reduce the adverse effects.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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You're getting jerks either way, right? At least if you come down and they intensify, you know it will be temporary, and the chances are higher they'll be less of a problem once you settle on that dose. That would be my logic, but as Alto says your call. I also don't understand your comment about being permanently numb. Firstly, that will be addressed as you taper over time, and secondly, it doesn't make sense that a lower dose would make it worse. I have found some improvement from giving less power to the fear and starting to accept that I'm going to have some degree of struggle/side effects/WD for some time. I think there's no other option, but to try and make some peace with that and make the best call you can at any given time. 

HRT 50mg oestrogen patch.

St John's Wort 500mg-4000mg 2012-Feb 2022 > WD > 7.5mg Mirt April 2022 > jumped off to 10-25mg Endep > 7.5mg Mirt mid-2022.

Valium 2.5-5mg sporadically between June-Oct 2023.

October 2023 onset hypnic jerks interfering with sleep (Mirt side effect exacerbated by stress/anxiety)

Early Jan 6, 2023, 5-day taper from 7.5 to 3.75 (with Temazepam supplementation for sleep).

Discontinued Jan 13, 2023 > WD (insomnia especially stubborn).

Increased to 100mg oestrogen and commenced 100mg progesterone (insomnia started with menopause; now 8 yrs post-menopausal).

Reinstated 7.5 Feb 23, 2023, stupid sliding dose: 4 nights 7.5 > 2 nights 3/4 of a 15mg pill > 1 night 7.5 > 2 nights 3/4 15mg > 15mg.

March 4, 2023, dropped to 7.5 (some WD insomnia) > stabilising and sleeping on 7.5.

April 5, 2023, started 10% taper > 6.75mg, April 30 > 6.08mg, May 26 > 5.47mg - sorry, I've missed noting a couple, now on 3.64mg as of 12/8/23 - apologies, have been tardy updating; currently at 2.7mg on the Brassmonkey Slide - quick update: 2.25mg as of 24/3/24.

Supplements: magnesium, melatonin 2mg, Omega 3.

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2 hours ago, Mcat said:

I have found some improvement from giving less power to the fear and starting to accept that I'm going to have some degree of struggle/side effects/WD for some time. I think there's no other option, but to try and make some peace with that and make the best call you can at any given time. 

I called it normallizing the symptoms aka embracing the suck.  Once I did that and stopped expending so much energy worrying about the symptoms it made the rest of the process easier.  Keeping a daily WD checklist also helped drive home that the symptoms were indeed predictable and boring, however uncomfortable.  Taking the anxiety out of it really was effective.

I am not a doctor and do not offer any medical advice, only my own experience.  Consult your physician.

2011-2015 tapered off 300MG of Effexor.  Back in the Paxil Progress days.  No rebound.   

2005-2021:  450 mg Bupropion XL Daily

2021 Buporopion May 450mg/June 400mg/July 375mg/Aug 10th 360mg/

2021 Dec - 150mg IR, 3x day = 450mg Bup, Heritage manufacturer-yellow color pill. 

2022 May 3 - 3 x 150mg IR Bup, Avet brand(pharmacist said they merged with Heritage-orange color) -migraines

REINSTATED-BACK TO MY LAST STABLE DOSE/TIME RELEASE

2022 June 5 - switched back to 3 x 150mg XL one time per day= 450 mg total Bup-Apotex brand

CURRENT TAPER 2022 Aug 31 - 450MG to 412MG IR Bup//Sep. 28, 2022: 412mg to 375mg//Oct 26, 2022: 375mg to 365 mg//Nov 21, 2022: 365mg to 327mg//Dec 27, 2022: 327 mg to 290 mg//Dec 31, 2022:  290mg to 262mg//Jan 28, 2023:  262mg to 190mg//Feb. 19, 2023:  190mg to 140mg//Mar. 18, '23:  140mg to 100mg//

 

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@Altostrata

 

I’ve decreased my dosage to 20mg as of Monday to test a drop. My sleep was immediately poor(er) 3 hours, but last night it was a little better 5.5 hours, but I’ve been waking up with extremely intrusive and obsessive thoughts, that are difficult and make me feel like I’m going crazy. 
 

Now, I’ve had versions of this throughout, especially at higher dosage, so I’m not sure it’s directly related to a cut, however, I feel like this should probably lessen as I get lower.

 

So my test essentially came back inconclusive… not sure if I should stabilize here, or try to jump to 15mg and tough it out for a while and hope that negative part goes away. 
 

Buggest fear is ending up crazy and back on Olanzapine. Or not sleeping for days and having to take Gabapentin or something. 

January 3rd: Hydroxyzine off and on 2 weeks

January 5th: 1 time trazodone. 

January 6th 2023: Olanzapine 5mg.
Jan10th 2023: Olanz 2.5 mg.Jan 19th:CT Olan

Jan 22nd 2023: Started Mirtazapine 7.5mg 2 week, 15mg 3 weeks, 22.5 3 weeks.

February 2nd reinstated Olanz 2.5mg. 
February 9th: 1.75mg after side effects. 
February 14th: stopped Olanz

currently only on: 22.5mg Mirtazapine.  

melatonin: 2mg l-theanine: 200mg mag: 300 mg valerian root: 400mg has been usedoff/on

 

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Yeah, most of us are terrified of the horrors of fierce insomnia, but what's the option? Staying on a drug that gives you the jerks forever? And no offence, but in terms of mental health, it sounds like you're already doing it tough. But only you can decide when to make the jump to 15. You've had feedback from very experienced people that if you're going to do that sooner is better than later because of the period of time you've been on it and the longer you delay the harder it will be, but it is your call. Either way and whenever/however you get down, I expect you'll feel better once you're past the worst of the WD because as I've said before, I find anything above 7.5 makes me more and not less agitated (and makes the jerks worse too).

HRT 50mg oestrogen patch.

St John's Wort 500mg-4000mg 2012-Feb 2022 > WD > 7.5mg Mirt April 2022 > jumped off to 10-25mg Endep > 7.5mg Mirt mid-2022.

Valium 2.5-5mg sporadically between June-Oct 2023.

October 2023 onset hypnic jerks interfering with sleep (Mirt side effect exacerbated by stress/anxiety)

Early Jan 6, 2023, 5-day taper from 7.5 to 3.75 (with Temazepam supplementation for sleep).

Discontinued Jan 13, 2023 > WD (insomnia especially stubborn).

Increased to 100mg oestrogen and commenced 100mg progesterone (insomnia started with menopause; now 8 yrs post-menopausal).

Reinstated 7.5 Feb 23, 2023, stupid sliding dose: 4 nights 7.5 > 2 nights 3/4 of a 15mg pill > 1 night 7.5 > 2 nights 3/4 15mg > 15mg.

March 4, 2023, dropped to 7.5 (some WD insomnia) > stabilising and sleeping on 7.5.

April 5, 2023, started 10% taper > 6.75mg, April 30 > 6.08mg, May 26 > 5.47mg - sorry, I've missed noting a couple, now on 3.64mg as of 12/8/23 - apologies, have been tardy updating; currently at 2.7mg on the Brassmonkey Slide - quick update: 2.25mg as of 24/3/24.

Supplements: magnesium, melatonin 2mg, Omega 3.

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3 hours ago, StillChill said:

I’ve decreased my dosage to 20mg as of Monday to test a drop. My sleep was immediately poor(er) 3 hours, but last night it was a little better 5.5 hours, but I’ve been waking up with extremely intrusive and obsessive thoughts, that are difficult and make me feel like I’m going crazy. 

 

You decreased from 22.5mg to 20mg? This is only a 12.5% decrease.

 

Since your sleep improved in a couple of days, I'd consider this decrease a success. When you make a decrease, it will take some time for any withdrawal symptoms to stabilize. Then you can taper again, but I would dial it back to 10% decreases, the withdrawal symptoms from the 12.5% decrease indicate you have adapted to the drug.

 

You'll have to figure out what works for you.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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So I balanced out at 20.5mg, had to add 1mg one night to sleep, but then have been taking 20.5mg for the last two nights, and the last 3 nights I’ve slept for a full 8 hours, waking in the night but able to go back to sleep pretty easily. 
 

I still think my mind/body is working to stabilize a bit, but It’s the first time I’ve felt close to stable since starting. I can now understand just how important this is in the tapering process. 
 

My jerks/jolts have eased, they still exist but I maybe have 2-3 a night that I notice at least. Which makes me think, that for me at least, they are a product of instability in my CNS, occurring when I transition dosage up or down. 
 

Thanks for the help, and although I didn’t make the drop to 15mg, at least I’m less than 22.5mg, closer to zero, stabilized and sleeping. 

January 3rd: Hydroxyzine off and on 2 weeks

January 5th: 1 time trazodone. 

January 6th 2023: Olanzapine 5mg.
Jan10th 2023: Olanz 2.5 mg.Jan 19th:CT Olan

Jan 22nd 2023: Started Mirtazapine 7.5mg 2 week, 15mg 3 weeks, 22.5 3 weeks.

February 2nd reinstated Olanz 2.5mg. 
February 9th: 1.75mg after side effects. 
February 14th: stopped Olanz

currently only on: 22.5mg Mirtazapine.  

melatonin: 2mg l-theanine: 200mg mag: 300 mg valerian root: 400mg has been usedoff/on

 

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On 3/27/2023 at 10:40 AM, StillChill said:

So I balanced out at 20.5mg, had to add 1mg one night to sleep, but then have been taking 20.5mg for the last two nights, and the last 3 nights I’ve slept for a full 8 hours, waking in the night but able to go back to sleep pretty easily. 

 

This sounds promising. Suggest you taper by 10% or less next time.

 

On 3/27/2023 at 10:40 AM, StillChill said:

My jerks/jolts have eased, they still exist but I maybe have 2-3 a night that I notice at least.

 

Do you mean they increased after the dosage reduction, but then eased? How long did that take?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

 

This sounds promising. Suggest you taper by 10% or less next time.

Yeah, I’ll probably try 10% again after being stable for a couple weeks. 
 

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

Do you mean they increased after the dosage reduction, but then eased? How long did that take?

Every day was 50% better. They increased on the first drop day, then started getting better each night. But a big part of it I think was getting my first full night of sleep in months. The lack of sleep increases their severity, along with the drug change and withdrawal. 
 

I was also concerned with some daytime dyskenisia like symptoms, but those have also diminished. 
 

I think my CNS is/was trying to stabilize not only the Mirtazapine changing, but also still having effects from Olanzapine WD. 

January 3rd: Hydroxyzine off and on 2 weeks

January 5th: 1 time trazodone. 

January 6th 2023: Olanzapine 5mg.
Jan10th 2023: Olanz 2.5 mg.Jan 19th:CT Olan

Jan 22nd 2023: Started Mirtazapine 7.5mg 2 week, 15mg 3 weeks, 22.5 3 weeks.

February 2nd reinstated Olanz 2.5mg. 
February 9th: 1.75mg after side effects. 
February 14th: stopped Olanz

currently only on: 22.5mg Mirtazapine.  

melatonin: 2mg l-theanine: 200mg mag: 300 mg valerian root: 400mg has been usedoff/on

 

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15 hours ago, StillChill said:

I think my CNS is/was trying to stabilize not only the Mirtazapine changing, but also still having effects from Olanzapine WD. 

 

Yes, you are tapering mirtazapine in a vulnerable period, when you still may be stabilizing from very recently stopping olanzapine and your many other drug changes in the last 3 months.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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On 3/17/2023 at 1:44 PM, StillChill said:

I also need to add supplement to my signature but don’t know how. 
 

magnesium threonate: 432mg 

melotinin: 2mg 

l-theanine: 200mg 

valerian root: 400mg off and on but stopped taking to try and stabilize. 

I don’t know if this is going on with you but I had been taking supplements, especially magnesium for years.  Once I started my taper on imipramine I became super sensitive and had to stop all supplements.  They were actually making my withdrawals worse.  As soon as I stopped my anxiety melted.

94-2000 Prozac, 2000-2001 zoloft

2001-2003 paxil, 2002 1 mg klonopin

2003-2004 effexor,  ct  klonopin,  in hospital  put on Seroquel & lexapro , 2005 Ct lexapro, in the hospital again, imipramine 250mg, 2009-2010 weaned off seroquel, 2016-17tapered imipramine to 150, 2017-19 100 mg, 2020 jumped to 50 mg a week later went back up to 60. 11/22 56 mg

12-22 50mg 4/5/23 - 47mg 4/16 - 40 mg 6/27/23-35mg 

1/20 1 mg ropinirol  3/21 ropinirol 2 mg 

4/23 Ozempic .25, 6/26/23 .37mg 12/1/23 .39mg

Supplements: boron, Vitamin C, diatomaceous earth, cream of tartar  and Celtic sea salt, transdermal magnesium oil

 

 

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