rdogg - CT of Wellbutrin and tapering of klonopin

[rdogg]

I’m a tough case. I was on Wellbutrin off and on for 10 years and then didn’t renew my prescription in early 21 when I moved states and was not working to finish a grad degree internship and couldn’t find a psychiatrist. Started sleeping 2-3 hours a night when I started working again. i got my GP to start me  on Kolonopin for sleep which helped me for a bit but I started getting bad stomach symptoms after a couple months. Of course the Dr. wasn’t very benzo wise and referred me to Gastro and went through all that and they took my gallbladder out even which did not help at all. Of course the kolonopin stopped working and I was worse then I was. I thought I tapered really slowly  off Kolonopin but I guess not  as I’ve had lots of symptoms. Can’t sleep much and I spend the day in front of the TV now getting brain zaps the wake me up when I start to drift off. This is misey. Nerve pain too now starting. Will I ever feel normal again?

[Carmie]

Hi @rdogg Welcome to SA. I’m really sorry to hear that you’re struggling so much. Unfortunately it’s extremely common on this site seeing people going off meds too quickly, it’s the norm rather than the exception. Doctors aren’t taught how to taper people safely, which is really sad.
 

What was your schedule for tapering the Clonazepam? What date did you go down to 0.075mg? What amount were you on before that? Did you write down the dates and doses somewhere of your taper? 

 

Have you had a chance to have a look at the Symptoms and Self-Care section? There’s a thread entitled: “Brain Zaps.” There is also a thread entitled: “ Paresthesia: pins and needles, numbness, tingling, burning sensations, aka neuropathy.” There are lots of people on this site that have these symptoms too sadly, as well as insomnia, like you. There are also people that have eventually recovered from all the various symptoms we get from these meds. Unfortunately, no one  knows how long it takes to recover from these meds, some recover quickly and others take a really long time.  
 

 A lot of people on here find some benefit in taking fish oil and magnesium, but be careful and go slowly if you want to try that as we can be hypersensitive to a lot of things. Just try one thing at a time n start at a low dose and work your way up. 
 

Sending hugs🤗

[Carmie]

How are you doing @rdogg? 💛

[rdogg]

im struggling. Feeling at the end of my rope. 

[Carmie]

I’m really sorry to hear this @rdogg, Could you please tell me what your schedule for tapering the Clonazepam was and the date you got down to 0.075. Thank you. Are you on any other meds at the moment? What’s your sleep like now? 

Could you please answer these questions and I’ll get Shep to pop over to chat to you, she’s the benzodiazepines expert on here. 
 

Sending hugs🤗

[rdogg]

I got down to 0.075 mg in March. Not sure the exact day. 

 

10^th December 2022 

 

Clonazepam/klonopin is a potent benzodiazepine. 0.5mg of K is equivalent to 10mg of diazepam.

The clonazepam has a reasonably long half ife and can be tapered.

 

Water taper plan, 0.25mg of clonazepam in 100ml of water.

Benzodiazepines do not dissolve in water. When put in water the pills will crumble and disintegrate into lots of small bits. You can create a suspension of the bits in the water, a cloudy mixture, that will enable you to remove small reductions using suitable syringes.

The decreases can be done daily so that the reduction is slow and steady.

 

You will need a small jar with a lid and two different sizes of syringe, 50ml and either 10ml or 20ml.

 

1. Measure 100ml of water into the jar using the 50ml syringe.
2. Drop 0.25mg of pill into the water. The pill will crumble!
3. Give it some help by securing the lid and shaking the jar gently. This also disperses the bits around in the water.
4. When it seems that the piece of pill has finally disintegrated, give the jar a few extra shakes and take off the lid.
5. Put the nozzle of a suitable syringe into the middle of the cloud and remove the daily decrease. Discard.
6. Use the remainder for dosing. 
7. You can try out the process for a few days to adjust to any effects this dosing might produce. 
8. When you feel ready to taper start at day 1 with a dose of  99ml

 

0.25mg in 100ml gives 0.0025mg per ml which adds up to 0.0375mg every 15 days. So you dosing is reduced by 0.0375mg every 15 days.

 

Day 1 0.25mg/100ml Remove 1ml dose with 99ml

Day 2 same remove 2ml dose with 98ml

Day 3 same remove 3ml dose with 97ml

Day 4 same remove 4ml dose with 96ml

Day 5 same remove 5ml dose with 95ml

 

Continue decreasing the dose by 1ml more.

 

Stop at day 140 when the dose is below  0.025mg

Edited May 30, 2023 by Shep
removed attachment - had real name in it - copied the information and pasted it in the post

[rdogg]

I started at .5 mg. Sleep is terrible. I'm in bad shape. I get these zaps whenever I start to fall asleep except after 3 am till around 7 am. 

 

[Altostrata]

 

Did these zaps start while you were tapering clonazepam? At what dosage? What does your prescriber say about your symptoms?

 

Please either post plain text in the topic or provide a link to the document in Google Drive or other online storage. The staff doesn't download documents.

 

What times o'clock do you take your drugs, with their dosages? How do you feel before and after each dose?

[Shep]

@rdogg Please note I removed the attachment you had placed in your post here. It had your real name in the text, as well as in the document title. I copied and pasted the text directly into your post. As Alto mentioned, we don't like to do downloads, so it's best to either link to something like Google Docs or simply add the text to your post. 

 

Please let us know what doses you were at over the past 3 months. 

[rdogg]

After consulting with an expert in England, I went up in dosage. 

 

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3/18	36	0.09	stomach gurgling,insomnia, difficulty swallowing
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4/10	30	0.075	stomach gurgling,i
4/17	30	0.075	stomach girgoing, muscle twitching, some paratheisia in back, myclonic jerking
04/21	30	0.075
04/23	30	0.075	stomach gurgling,
4/26	30	0.075	stomah gurgling, hedeach insomnia, pain shooting down back, muscle spasms. mmyoclonic jerking, frequent urination, no appetite, constipation
05/04	30	0.075	stomah gurgling, hedeach insomnia, muscle spasms. myoclonic jerking, frequent urination, no appetite, elevated HR, brain zaps
05/05	30	0.075	stomah gurgling, hedeach insomnia, muscle spasms. myoclonic jerking, frequent urination, no appetite, elevated HR, parethesia, oulsating chemicals through spine internal vibrations
05/06	30	0.075	stomah gurgling, hedeach insomnia, muscle spasms. myoclonic jerking, frequent urination, no appetite, elevated HR, parethesia, oulsating chemicals through spine internal vibrations, akathesia
05/09	30	0.075	benzo belly, stomah gurgling, hedeach insomnia, muscle spasms. myoclonic jerking, frequent urination, no appetite, elevated HR, parethesia, oulsating chemicals through spine internal vibrations, akathesia
5/16	30	0.075	benzo belly, stomah gurgling, hedeach insomnia, muscle spasms. , frequent urination, no appetite, elevated HR, parethesia, brain zaps
5/18/23	30	0.075	benzo belly, stomah gurgling, hedeach insomnia, muscle spasms. , frequent urination, no appetite, elevated HR, parethesia, brain zaps
5/19/23	30	0.075	benzo belly, stomah gurgling, hedeach insomnia, muscle spasms. , frequent urination, no appetite, elevated HR, parethesia, brain zaps
5/20/23	30	0.075	benzo belly, stomah gurgling, hedeach insomnia, muscle spasms. , frequent urination, no appetite, elevated HR, parethesia, brain zaps
5/21/23	30	0.075	benzo belly, stomah gurgling, hedeach insomnia, muscle spasms. , frequent urination, no appetite, elevated HR, parethesia, brain zaps
5/22/23	30	0.075	benzo belly, stomah gurgling, hedeach insomnia, muscle spasms. , frequent urination, no appetite, elevated HR, parethesia, brain zaps
5/23/23		.125	benzo belly, stomah gurgling, hedeach insomnia, muscle spasms. , frequent urination, no appetite, elevated HR, parethesia, brain zaps
5/24/23	30	.125	benzo belly, stomah gurgling, hedeach insomnia, muscle spasms. , frequent urination, no appetite, elevated HR, parethesia, brain zaps
5/25/23	30	.125	benzo belly, stomah gurgling, hedeach insomnia, muscle spasms. , frequent urination, no appetite, elevated HR, parethesia, brain zaps
5/26/23	30	.125	benzo belly, stomah gurgling, hedeach insomnia, muscle spasms. , frequent urination, no appetite, elevated HR, parethesia, brain zaps
5/27/23	30	.125	benzo belly, stomah gurgling, hedeach insomnia, muscle spasms. , frequent urination, no appetite, elevated HR, parethesia, brain zaps

[Shep]

@rdogg The formatting in your last post is making me dizzy to look at. 

 

Please list the doses you were on for the past few months in this format:

January 1, 2023 - drug name, dose

February 1, 2023 - drug name, dose

March 1, 2023 - drug name, dose

April 1, 2023 - drug name, dose

May 1, 2023 - drug name, dose

Today's date - drug name, dose

 

7 hours ago, rdogg said:

5/27/23 30 .125 benzo belly, stomah gurgling, hedeach insomnia, muscle spasms. , frequent urination, no appetite, elevated HR, parethesia, brain zaps

 

You have 5/27/23 as your last entry in this chart with the dose of .125 mg, but in your signature, you state you're down to .075 mg. What dose are you currently taking? 

[Altostrata]

 

@rdogg your earlier post shows daily reductions or other adjustments of clonazepam from January 13 to March 19, with no apparent change in symptom pattern throughout that time.

 

Then you stopped tapering, staying at 0.0875mg March 20-April 5, again with no apparent change in symptom pattern.

 

You resumed reductions on April 5-April 10 and developed a new symptom of brain zaps on May 16 after being at 0.075mg since April 10. The rest of the symptom pattern remained the same. This hasn't changed since you went back up to 0.125mg on May 23.

 

What does the expert in England say about your current symptom pattern?

 

What times o'clock do you take your drugs, with dosages? Are the brain zaps worse at any particular times of day?

 

 

[rdogg]

The expert thought they would reduce with the increase. It's a little too soon to tell. I dose at 2 pm and 2 am. 

[rdogg]

The dosage is .0625 right now. 

[rdogg]

The dosage is .0625 right now. 

[rdogg]

January 1, 2023 - clonazepam, .25

February 1, 2023 - clonazepam, .2025

March 1, 2023 -clonazepam, .13

April 1, 2023 - clonazepam, .0875

May 1, 2023 - clonazepam, .075

May 31- clonazepam, .125- expert said to up dose to reduce symptoms

[Shep]

20 hours ago, rdogg said:

January 1, 2023 - clonazepam, .25

February 1, 2023 - clonazepam, .2025

March 1, 2023 -clonazepam, .13

April 1, 2023 - clonazepam, .0875

May 1, 2023 - clonazepam, .075

May 31- clonazepam, .125- expert said to up dose to reduce symptoms

 

Thanks, @rdogg I've added this to your signature. 

 

23 hours ago, Altostrata said:

What times o'clock do you take your drugs, with dosages? Are the brain zaps worse at any particular times of day?

 

It looks like you missed Alto's second question about the brain zaps. 

 

[rdogg]

brain zaps are the same. More common in the late morning. 

[Altostrata]

It's been a month since you last posted. How has your symptom pattern changed in that month?

 

Did you bring up the question of your continuing brain zaps with your tapering advisor? What did the expert say?

[rdogg]

Brain zaps still happening. Expert did not hablve much to offer except what i should have dine in the past. 

[Altostrata]

Are you still paying this expert?

 

You might try this many people find these to be helpful:

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

You might try a low dose of one at a time to see what it does for you.