Administrator Altostrata Posted May 23, 2011 Administrator Share Posted May 23, 2011 (edited) ADMIN NOTE Also see Icarus Project Harm Reduction Guide To Coming Off Psychiatric Drugs (patient-produced, compiled by Will Hall) Other peer-produced guides NMSIS Tips to manage and prevent discontinuation syndrome Harvard Women's Health Watch 2010 Going off antidepressants Dose Equivalents for Second-Generation Antipsychotics ____________________________________________________ From GPnotebook.co.uk, a widely used UK medical site for general practitioners: Stopping antidepressant treatment the timing of when to stop antidepressant treatment is discussed...below (length of antidepressant treatment) patients should be advised not to stop treatment suddenly or omit doses - patients should also be forewarned about possible symptoms that may occur when treatment is discontinued Drug and Therapeutics Bulletin (1) advises: [*] after a 'standard' 6-8 months treatment it is recommended that treatment should be tapered off over a 6-8 week period if the patient has been on maintenance therapy then an even more gradual tapering e.g. by 1/4 of the treatment dose every 4-6 weeks, is advised if a treatment course has lasted less than 8 weeks then discontinuation over 1-2 weeks is considered safe this contrasts with the Maudsley prescribing guidelines (2) which recommend that antidepressants should be withdrawn slowly, preferably over four weeks, by weekly increments for example, Drug maintenance dose (mg/day) dose after 1st week (mg/day) dose after 2nd week (mg/day) dose after 3rd week (mg/day) dose after 4th week (mg/day) amitriptyline 150 100 50 25 Nil paroxetine 30 20 10 5 (liquid) Nil trazadone 450 300 150 75 Nil If withdrawal symptoms occur then the rate of drug withdrawal should be slowed or (if the drug has been stopped) the patient should be given reassurance that symptoms rarely last more than 1-2 weeks (2). NICE also suggest a four week period for withdrawal of antidepressant treatment (3): stopping or reducing antidepressants advise people that discontinuation symptoms may occur on stopping, missing doses or, occasionally, reducing the dose of the drug. Explain that these are usually mild and self-limiting over about 1 week, but can be severe, particularly if the drug is stopped abruptly normally, gradually reduce the dose over 4 weeks (this is not necessary with fluoxetine). Reduce the dose over longer periods for drugs with a shorter half-life (for example, paroxetine and venlafaxine) advise the person to see their practitioner if they experience significant discontinuation symptoms. If symptoms occur: monitor them and reassure the person if symptoms are mild consider reintroducing the original antidepressant at the dose that was effective (or another antidepressant with a longer half-life from the same class) if symptoms are severe, and reduce the dose gradually while monitoring symptoms [*]for detailed guidance then consult the full guideline (3) Swapping antidepressant treatment (2): when swapping from one antidepressant to another, abrupt withdrawal should usually be avoided. Cross-tapering is preferred, where the dose of the ineffective or poorly tolerated drug is slowly reduced while the new drug is slowly introduced for example, week 1 week 2 week 3 week 4 withdrawing dosulepin 150 mg od 100mg od 50 mg od 25 mg od Nil introducing citalopram Nil 10 mg od 10mg od 20 mg od 20 mg od Antidepressant use: swapping and stopping The table below has been adapted from the Maudsley prescribing guidelines (2). However it is recommended that local prescribing guidelines and/or specialist psychiatric advice must be consulted when swapping antidepressant medication. Also the specific summary of product characteristics for each of the antidepressants involved should be consulted. It has been noted that there are no clear guidelines on switching antidepressants, so caution is required (2). changing from to tricyclics to citalopram to fluoxetine to paroxetine to sertraline to venlafaxine tricyclics (TCA) cross taper cautiously halve dose and add citalopram then slow withdrawal halve dose and add fluoxetine then slow withdrawal halve dose and add paroxetine then slow withdrawal halve dose and add sertraline then slow withdrawal cross taper cautiously starting with 37.5 mg per day citalopram cross taper cautiously withdraw citalopram then start fluoxetine withdraw citalopram and then start paroxetine at 10 mg per day withdraw citalopram and then start sertraline at 25 mg per day withdraw and then start venlafaxine at 37.5 mg per day. Increase very slowly fluoxetine stop fluoxetine. Start tricyclic at very low dose and increase very slowly stop fluoxetine. Wait 4-7 days; start citalopram at 10mg per day and increase slowly stop fluoxetine. Wait 4-7 days; start paroxetine at 10mg per day and increase slowly stop fluoxetine. Wait 4-7 days; start sertraline at 25 mg per day and increase slowly stop fluoxetine. Wait 4-7 days; start venlafaxine at 37.5 mg per day. Increase very slowly paroxetine cross taper cautiously with very low dose of tricyclic withdraw paroxetine then start citalopram withdraw paroxetine then start fluoxetine withdraw paroxetine then start sertraline at 25 mg per day withdraw paroxetine. Start venlafaxine at 37.5 mg per day. Increase very slowly sertraline cross taper cautiously with very low dose of tricyclic withdraw sertraline then start citalopram withdraw sertraline then start fluoxetine withdraw sertraline then start paroxetine withdraw sertraline then start venlafaxine at 37.5 mg per day venlafaxine cross taper cautiously with very low dose of tricycli cross taper cautiously. Start with citalopram 10 mg per day crosss taper cautiously. Start with 20 mg every other day cross taper cautiously. Start with 10 mg per day. cross taper cautiously. Start with 25 mg per day stopping reduce over four weeks reduce over four weeks at 20mg per day - just stop at 40 mg per day, reduce over four weeks reduce over four weeks, or longer if necessary * reduce over four weeks reduce over four weeks or longer if necessary NICE guidance regarding switching antidepressants is less detailed (3): do not switch to, or start, dosulepin because evidence supporting its tolerability relative to other antidepressants is outweighed by the increased cardiac risk and toxicity in overdose when switching to another antidepressant, which can normally be achieved within 1 week when switching from drugs with a short half life, consider the potential for interactions in determining the choice of new drug and the nature and duration of the transition. Exercise particular caution when switching: from fluoxetine to other antidepressants, because fluoxetine has a long half-life (approximately 1 week) from fluoxetine or paroxetine to a TCA, because both of these drugs inhibit the metabolism of TCAs; a lower starting dose of the TCA will be required, particularly if switching from fluoxetine because of its long half-life to a new serotonergic antidepressant or MAOI, because of the risk of serotonin syndrome from a non-reversible MAOI: a 2-week washout period is required (other antidepressants should not be prescribed routinely during this period). Notes: Do not co-administer clomipramine and SSRIs or venlafaxine When switching between one SSRI and another, cross-tapering the doses is generally not considered necessary. The effects of the first SSRI are likely to be so similar to that of the second one, that the second SSRI will reduce the discontinuation effects of the first (2). The abrupt switch between SSRIs may still produce discontinuation symptoms, and vigilance is still advised. In cases where discontinuation symptoms arise a short period of dose tapering is recommended before starting a different SSRI. * withdrawal effects may be more pronounced. Slow withdrawal over 1-2 months may be necessary. Reference: Drug and Therapeutics Bulletin (1999); 37 (7):49-52. The Maudsley Prescribing Guidelines 2001; 6th Ed, p64 - 65. NICE (October 2009). Depression Edited November 19, 2018 by Altostrata edited admin note This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexjuice Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 NICE's advice to taper 50% a week over four weeks to d/c paxil is very bad advice. And, I feel confident in asserting, not the advice that would be offered by any of the posters on this site. I thought pointing this out was worthwhile considering the possibility that a new visitor first could land on the instructions and decide to follow them. Alex.i "Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me. Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there Everybody's got to move somewhere Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow Things should start to get interesting right about now." - Zimmerman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted May 23, 2011 Author Administrator Share Posted May 23, 2011 You could also use this as a start to educate your doctor about the most recent advice from the conservative wing of psychiatry. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neuroplastic Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 My doctor had always this advice; cut the pill in half, wait two weeks, then get rid of the rest. Yes, after eight years on it. 2000-2008 Paxil for a situational depression 2008 - Paxil c/t Severe protracted WD syndrome ever since; improving “The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once” Albert Einstein "Add signature to your profile. This way we can help you even better!" Surviving Antidepressants And, above all, ... keep walking. Just keep walking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted May 25, 2011 Author Administrator Share Posted May 25, 2011 .... When switching between one SSRI and another, cross-tapering the doses is generally not considered necessary. The effects of the first SSRI are likely to be so similar to that of the second one, that the second SSRI will reduce the discontinuation effects of the first (2). The abrupt switch between SSRIs may still produce discontinuation symptoms, and vigilance is still advised. In cases where discontinuation symptoms arise a short period of dose tapering is recommended before starting a different SSRI..... Note the conflicting and confusing advice regarding switching. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted May 27, 2011 Author Administrator Share Posted May 27, 2011 From advice given to U.S. family practitioners. Note reference is from 1997: Antidepressant Withdrawal Aka: Antidepressant Withdrawal, Antidepressant Discontinuation Syndrome, SSRI Discontinuation Syndrome Pathophysiology Occurs with sudden Antidepressant Withdrawal Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor (SSRI) Tricyclic Antidepressant MAO inhibitor Symptom onset occurs within 24 hours to 2-3 weeks Likely results from cholinergic overdriveSymptoms similar to Organophosphate Poisoning Most common with Paxil Least common with Prozac (naturally tapers) Symptoms Cholinergic rebound (See Cholinergic Toxicity) Diaphoresis Nausea or Vomiting Diarrhea Non-specific Withdrawal symptoms Dizziness Anxiety Headache Malaise Myalgias Weakness Sleep Disturbance Extrapyramidal effects Paresthesias Restless legs Differential Diagnosis Bipolar Disorder with Antidepressant-induced mania Management: Approach Mild Symptoms: Resolve spontaneously Withhold treatment Reassurance and observe Moderate to severe symptoms Restart medication and then slowly taper See specific medications for taper schedule Symptoms abate soon after restarting medication Management: Specific Withdrawal Symptoms Cholinergic rebound symptoms (See above) Atropine 0.8 mg PO tid to qid Cogentin 0.5 to 4 mg PO qd Artane 1-4 mg PO tid to qid Donnatal 2 tablets PO tid-qid Anxiety Lorazepam 0.5 to 1 mg PO tid prn Dizziness Antivert 12.5 to 25 mg PO q6 hours prn Dramamine 50 mg PO q6 hours prn Reference Wolfe (1997) Am Fam Physician 56(2):455-461 http://www.fpnotebook.com/psych/pharm/antdprsntwthdrwl.htm This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted June 5, 2011 Author Administrator Share Posted June 5, 2011 Also see About discontinuation from US APA Practice Guidelines This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 28, 2011 Author Administrator Share Posted November 28, 2011 This is from www.nelm.nhs.uk/ and the UK's NHS UK Medicines Information (UKMi) pharmacists for NHS healthcare professionals (Expires 31 August 2011) about cross-tapering. It is appalling. QA150_2_v5_switching_antidepressants_SSRIs_TCAs_and_related.doc This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted June 15, 2012 Author Administrator Share Posted June 15, 2012 Also see NICE antidepressant discontinuation guidelines for UK doctors This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarannamated Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 What do you make of the reference from 1997? I've noted trends in literature... info ceased in early 2000s or thereabouts. Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted June 15, 2012 Author Administrator Share Posted June 15, 2012 New-generation antidepressant withdrawal syndrome became recognized in the late 1990s -- the initial hype from pharma was, as opposed to the tricyclics, there were no withdrawal difficulties -- and there was a burst of research that ended in the early 2000s. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1985 Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 My psychiatrist told me I could just stop taking Effexor at 75mg, as it was a "small dose". But I knew from past experience that missing a single dose would cause me horrible w/d symptoms the next day (depression, anxiety, diahorrea, nausea, etc). I decided to taper over a month, based on the official guidelines, and I thought by doing so I was playing it safe. After I had terrible w/d symptoms, I saw a different psychiatrist and told her I'd tapered over a month, she nodded and said, "yes, that's what we recommend" and that it was "your old symptoms returning". Even though I was put on it for social anxiety, not horrific morning anxiety with restlessness, burning nerves, tremors, diahorrea, loss of appetite, etc. So now I think they're all a bunch of idiotic quacks, and wouldn't dare trust them with my life/wellbeing again. The info I've found online has been much more reliable and helpful, as sad as that sounds. 2003-2011: Paroxetine,Citalopram,Effexor; Aug/Sept 2011: Effexor to Mirtazapine; Oct 2011: C/T Mirtazapine back to Effexor; Nov/Dec 2011: Fast Tapered Effexor - w/d hell; Feb 2012: Reinstated Effexor 37.5mg; June 2012: Dropped to 35.6mg; Jan 2016: Propranolol 2.5mg per day for general anxiety; Feb 2016: Finasteride 0.25mg per week to slow hair loss; 18th May - 8th June 2019: Started Vyvanse 7.5mg and increased by 7.5mg weekly to 30mg (lowest “therapeutic” dose for adults).; 21st June 2019 - 12th July: Cross tapered from venlafaxine brand Rodomel to Efexor (1/4 > 1/2 > 3/4 weekly before ditching Rodomel); 13th July 2019: Cut Vyvanse dose to 15mg; 15th July 2019: Akathisia returned after years of being free; 16th July 2019: Went back up to Vyvanse 30mg Supplements: Omega-3, Vitamin D, Zinc, Phosphatidylserine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted June 16, 2012 Author Administrator Share Posted June 16, 2012 Yes, unfortunately that's true. Doctors are not well informed about getting people off psychiatric drugs. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus Rhiannon Posted June 17, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted June 17, 2012 My psychiatrist told me I could just stop taking Effexor at 75mg, as it was a "small dose". But I knew from past experience that missing a single dose would cause me horrible w/d symptoms the next day (depression, anxiety, diahorrea, nausea, etc). I decided to taper over a month, based on the official guidelines, and I thought by doing so I was playing it safe. After I had terrible w/d symptoms, I saw a different psychiatrist and told her I'd tapered over a month, she nodded and said, "yes, that's what we recommend" and that it was "your old symptoms returning". Even though I was put on it for social anxiety, not horrific morning anxiety with restlessness, burning nerves, tremors, diahorrea, loss of appetite, etc. So now I think they're all a bunch of idiotic quacks, and wouldn't dare trust them with my life/wellbeing again. The info I've found online has been much more reliable and helpful, as sad as that sounds. If doctors in general and psychiatrists in particular knew how much psych med withdrawal experiences are undermining their credibility and authority I think they might take the problem more seriously. I'm not the only person around who will never trust medical advice again. About ANYthing. Especially prescriptions or expensive testing. Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010. Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea. Feb 15 2010: 300 mg Neurontin 200 Lamictal 10 Celexa 0.65 Xanax and 5 mg Ambien Feb 10 2014: 62 Lamictal 1.1 Celexa 0.135 Xanax 1.8 Valium Feb 10 2015: 50 Lamictal 0.875 Celexa 0.11 Xanax 1.5 Valium Feb 15 2016: 47.5 Lamictal 0.75 Celexa 0.0875 Xanax 1.42 Valium 2/12/20 12 0.045 0.007 1 May 2021 7 0.01 0.0037 1 Feb 2022 6 0!!! 0.00167 0.98 2.5 mg Ambien Oct 2022 4.5 mg Lamictal (off Celexa, off Xanax) 0.95 Valium Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarannamated Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 RE: testing - I have several tests and scans ordered but wondering "what info will this test yield?" and "what is/are the treatment/s" Inevitably, it's more drugs and that's where I get stuck wondering what's reasonable and worth doing. Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aria Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 My former pdoc used to titrate my doses by 25% a week and got me off each drug within one month. Of course he had me start another one after that. My body was on a "continuous merry go round of stop this -- start this" for too long. I last time I took his advice was when he told me it was OK to stop the Seroquel due to profound Akathisia. "You're not on much of it so it's no big deal to just stop it". It was 300mg of Seroquel and my body howled. When I called his office his nurse told me to go to the ER. I knew better. I successfully tapered off all of the psych drugs on my own. Unable at this time to correspond by private message. Link to my Introduction thread: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2477-aria-my-psych-journey/ Reading my psychiatric records: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5466-drugged-crazy-reading-my-psychiatric-records/ My Success Story is listed under "Aria's Recovery". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meistersinger Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 My former pdoc used to titrate my doses by 25% a week and got me off each drug within one month. Of course he had me start another one after that. My body was on a "continuous merry go round of stop this -- start this" for too long. In a footnote under tips for quitting psychiatric drugs on www.crazymeds.us, there is a citation for Julien--A Primer of Drug Action. The calculation there is take the half-life of the drug, multiply by 5 and round up to the nearest day. Anyone ever hear of this tome? History: 1995--Prozac--Quit CT by GP 1995--Effexor--Quit per my GP 1996--Amitriphene--Quit CT when changed GP 2005--Citalopram and BusPar. Prescribed when I decompensated in my GP's office. GP referred me to behavior health. Psychiatrist prescibed these drugs. Taken off citalopram in 2011 due to FDA warning. Quit Buspar during transition to viibryd. Viibryd--2011 to present. Had a severe reaction in March 2012. Advised both GP and Psychiatrist I was trying to get off these drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus tezza Posted July 13, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted July 13, 2012 My GP said " T, most people have no problem coming off Risperdal ". He, now, knows that I do. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1644-tezza-risperdal-withdrawal/ Seroquel and Mirtazipine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted September 9, 2012 Author Administrator Share Posted September 9, 2012 (edited) Many guides to tapering off psychiatric medications have been published. Some are more specific than others about the amount of reductions and rate of taper. Gradual tapering is generally accepted medical practice, it's not controversial at all. Cold turkey is universally condemned as dangerous. NONE of these guides suggest alternating or skipping doses to taper. 2010 APA Practice Guidelines Practice Guideline for the Treatment of Patients With Major Depressive Disorder Third Edition From the American Psychiatric Association Selection and discussion: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/372-2010-apa-practice-guidelines-about-discontinuation/ National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) guidelines (UK) PDF: CG90 Depression in adults: full guidance 28 October 2009 Selection and discussion: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2448-nice-antidepressant-discontinuation-guidelines-for-uk-doctors/ US National Guidelines For all US medical professionals, derived from APA practice guidelines. Discussion: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1177-us-national-guideline-discontinue-antidepressants-after-4-9-months/ Icarus Project Harm Reduction Guide * For tapering off psychiatric drugs, 2012 edition PDF: http://www.theicarusproject.net/downloads/ComingOffPsychDrugsHarmReductGuide2Edonline.pdf Selection and discussion: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/207-icarus-project-harm-reduction-guide/ Mind UK's Making Sense of Coming Off Psychiatric Drugs * An excellent summary of tapering. Selection and discussion: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2331-mind-uks-making-sense-of-coming-off-psychiatric-drugs/ Dr. Peter Breggin's 10% taper method * From Your Drug May Be Your Problem: How And Why To Stop Taking Psychiatric Medications by Peter R. Breggin and David Cohen Selection and discussion: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/803-dr-peter-breggins-10-taper-method/ Ashton Manual for benzodiazepine withdrawal Also applies to "Z" drugs for sleep. Information on antidepressants is poor. 2002 version. Be sure to read 2011 update. Discussions: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/206-2002-2011-ashton-manual-for-benzodiazepine-withdrawal/ http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1510-ashton-manual-recommendation-of-antidepressants/ http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1516-ashton-on-ssri-discontinuation-and-drug-development-2007/ NHS Advice: Benzodiazepine and z-drug withdrawal - Management * Current NHS advice to doctors, informed by research by Ashton and Lader. Discussions: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2931-current-nhs-advice-for-doctors-about-benzo-tapering/ Gianna Kali's Withdrawal 101 on BeyondMeds.com * NMSIS Tips to manage and prevent discontinuation syndromes Circa 2005 from a physician education group, the Neuroleptic Malignant Syndrome Information Service. As usual, potential severity and possibly frequency of withdrawal are understated and descriptions of symptoms are incomplete. Recommends tapers of 10% per week, with close monitoring. Selection and discussion: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2965-nmsis-tips-to-manage-and-prevent-discontinuation-syndromes/ Withdrawing Safely from Psychiatric Drugs * by psychologist Maureen B. Roberts, Director, Schizophrenia Drug-free Crisis Centre http://www.jungcircle.com/schiznatural.htm (Caution: We've found some of the supplements aggravate withdrawal symptoms, and have found orthomolecular physicians are not particularly knowledgeable about tapering or withdrawal.) Drug package inserts (US) In the US, each of the newer antidepressants and many other psychiatric drugs comes with an FDA-mandated package insert advising something like this: Discontinuation of Treatment with Lexapro During marketing of Lexapro and other SSRIs and SNRIs (serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors), there have been spontaneous reports of adverse events occurring upon discontinuation of these drugs, particularly when abrupt, including the following: dysphoric mood, irritability, agitation, dizziness, sensory disturbances (e.g., paresthesias such as electric shock sensations), anxiety, confusion, headache, lethargy, emotional lability, insomnia, and hypomania. While these events are generally self-limiting, there have been reports of serious discontinuation symptoms. Patients should be monitored for these symptoms when discontinuing treatment with Lexapro. A gradual reduction in the dose rather than abrupt cessation is recommended whenever possible. If intolerable symptoms occur following a decrease in the dose or upon discontinuation of treatment, then resuming the previously prescribed dose may be considered. Subsequently, the physician may continue decreasing the dose but at a more gradual rate.... (There is no more detail than this about tapering.) UK psychologist Mick Bramham summarizes other tapering guides here http://www.mythsandrisks.info/coming-off-psych-drugs.html#Slow_taper *Recommends decreases of 10% or less Edited February 10, 2014 by Altostrata updated This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiaK Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I've got a (relatively) short piece that's an intro to withdrawal...with links to other sources of info etc: I've alternately called it a Beginner's Guide to Psychiatric Drug Withdrawal and Withdrawal 101. I also refer to "safer" withdrawal practices and point out elsewhere that withdrawing from psych drugs always presents some risk. anyway, when I was withdrawing I found it helpful to read as many sources of info as possible...it's like I needed to hear stuff over and over again...of course there is more available now then there was then. http://beyondmeds.com/withdrawal-101/ Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus Rhiannon Posted September 12, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted September 12, 2012 Excellent collection of resources. I recommend printing out this list and taking it with you when you go to the doctor and giving it to your doctor. If they seem open and interested and willing to check it out, that's a good sign. If they act angry or resentful that you're trying to inform them and take control of your own taper, you may need to do some doctor-shopping. You can also print out a guide in full and take it with you. But I think this extensive list is even better. Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010. Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea. Feb 15 2010: 300 mg Neurontin 200 Lamictal 10 Celexa 0.65 Xanax and 5 mg Ambien Feb 10 2014: 62 Lamictal 1.1 Celexa 0.135 Xanax 1.8 Valium Feb 10 2015: 50 Lamictal 0.875 Celexa 0.11 Xanax 1.5 Valium Feb 15 2016: 47.5 Lamictal 0.75 Celexa 0.0875 Xanax 1.42 Valium 2/12/20 12 0.045 0.007 1 May 2021 7 0.01 0.0037 1 Feb 2022 6 0!!! 0.00167 0.98 2.5 mg Ambien Oct 2022 4.5 mg Lamictal (off Celexa, off Xanax) 0.95 Valium Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus Rhiannon Posted September 12, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted September 12, 2012 I've got a (relatively) short piece that's an intro to withdrawal...with links to other sources of info etc: I've alternately called it a Beginner's Guide to Psychiatric Drug Withdrawal and Withdrawal 101. I also refer to "safer" withdrawal practices and point out elsewhere that withdrawing from psych drugs always presents some risk. anyway, when I was withdrawing I found it helpful to read as many sources of info as possible...it's like I needed to hear stuff over and over again...of course there is more available now then there was then. http://beyondmeds.com/withdrawal-101/ Want to mention that this guide of G's has been recommended by John Grohol of the Psych Central website... Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010. Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea. Feb 15 2010: 300 mg Neurontin 200 Lamictal 10 Celexa 0.65 Xanax and 5 mg Ambien Feb 10 2014: 62 Lamictal 1.1 Celexa 0.135 Xanax 1.8 Valium Feb 10 2015: 50 Lamictal 0.875 Celexa 0.11 Xanax 1.5 Valium Feb 15 2016: 47.5 Lamictal 0.75 Celexa 0.0875 Xanax 1.42 Valium 2/12/20 12 0.045 0.007 1 May 2021 7 0.01 0.0037 1 Feb 2022 6 0!!! 0.00167 0.98 2.5 mg Ambien Oct 2022 4.5 mg Lamictal (off Celexa, off Xanax) 0.95 Valium Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Here's a link all about psych drug withdrawal. I havent read it yet, but thought I would share before reading as I tend to be forgetful. Enjoy http://beyondmeds.com/withdrawal-101/ pregan taper 600mg down to 240mg, daily cuts since xmas valium, just over 75mg, tapering 0.1 a day, will keep this more udated, cos amounts going down i have borderline personality, chronic ptsd, and suspected adhd and substance misuse as a symptom, which i am addressing with help of medical staff, drugs agencies & mh sta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted October 24, 2012 Author Administrator Share Posted October 24, 2012 Thanks, Primrose. The author is one of our esteemed members, GiaK, who posted above. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus dalsaan Posted November 7, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) The [2012] Maudsley prescribing guide in psychiatry claims to be the leading clinical reference guide in the UK. It is associated with the Maudsley hospital which is described as an international leader and ground breaker in mental health care On page 276 of their latest guide they give the following advice: 'Many people suffer symptoms despite slow withdrawal and even if they have received adequate education regarding discontinuation symptoms. For those patients, the option do abrupt withdrawal should be discussed'. Why is that you may ask. The answer lies in the next piece of prescribing advice 'Short life antidepressants should not generally. Be stopped abruptly, although some patients may prefer to risk a short period of intense symptoms rather than a prolonged period of milder symptoms' Can you believe that! If your having trouble on a slow taper, cease them abruptly instead. We're not pulling of bandaids here, this is our nervous system we are talking about. Perhaps we should have a thread that names and shames this baseless advice Edited May 31, 2018 by Altostrata merged related topics Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist. Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014. Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September. Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015. Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15). Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past. DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017 >My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 7, 2012 Author Administrator Share Posted November 7, 2012 This is a measure of the cluelessness out there about withdrawal. Do they give any citations for this? (Link, please!) I wonder what they've seen in terms of success, doing this. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiaK Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 http://books.google.com/books?id=KY_2Qk4LqVYC&pg=PA276&lpg=PA276&dq=Many+people+suffer+symptoms+despite+slow+withdrawal+and+even+if+they+have+received+adequate+education+regarding+discontinuation+symptoms.&source=bl&ots=um3o36_4La&sig=fI_YQtH1h9a8hYuqk1oZ3QzbTiQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jsSaUJH8BPKw0AHgxYHgBQ&ved=0CDwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarannamated Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 http://books.google.com/books?id=KY_2Qk4LqVYC&pg=PA276&lpg=PA276&dq=Many+people+suffer+symptoms+despite+slow+withdrawal+and+even+if+they+have+received+adequate+education+regarding+discontinuation+symptoms.&source=bl&ots=um3o36_4La&sig=fI_YQtH1h9a8hYuqk1oZ3QzbTiQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jsSaUJH8BPKw0AHgxYHgBQ&ved=0CDwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false Last bullet point in shaded box on page: "A very few patients experience a pre-dose discontinuation symptoms which provoke the taking of the antidepressant at an earlier time each day." Tolerance?? Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 9, 2012 Author Administrator Share Posted November 9, 2012 Thanks, Gia. I was very interested to look at the references they have for this odd technique to get people off antidepressants with only a couple of weeks of intense suffering. As I recall from the papers cited, none of them suggest "abrupt withdrawal" when patients experience difficulty tapering. It must be a Maudsley innovation. From Google Books The Maudsley Prescribing Guidelines in Psychiatry edited by David Taylor, Carol Paton, Shitij Kapur John Wiley & Sons, Jan 25, 2012 - 584 pages http://books.google.com/books?id=KY_2Qk4LqVYC&pg=PA276&lpg=PA276&dq=Many+people+suffer+symptoms+despite+slow+withdrawal+and+even+if+they+have+received+adequate+education+regarding+discontinuation+symptoms.&source=bl&ots=um3o36_4La&sig=fI_YQtH1h9a8hYuqk1oZ3QzbTiQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jsSaUJH8BPKw0AHgxYHgBQ&ved=0CDwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false page 276 How to avoid (16,17,18) Generally, antidepressant therapy should be discontinued over at least a 4-week period (this is not required with fluoxetine).(10) The shorter the half-life of the drug, the more important it is that this rule is followed. The end of the taper may need to be slower. as symptoms may not appear until the reduction in the total daily dosage of the antidepressant is (proportionately) substantial. Patients receiving MAOls may need to be tapered over a longer period. Tranylcypromine may be particularly difficult to stop. At-risk patients (see section on ‘Who is most at risk?‘ in this chapter) may need a slower taper. Many people suffer symptoms despite slow withdrawal and even if they have received adequate education regarding discontinuation symptoms.(8,21) For these patients, the option of abrupt withdrawal should be discussed. Box 4.9 lists the key points about which patients should be aware. Some may prefer to face a week or two of intense symptoms rather than months of less severe discontinuation syndrome. How to treat (16,17) There are few systematic studies in this area. Treatment is pragmatic. If symptoms are mild, reassure the patient that these symptoms are common after discontinuing an antidepressant and will pass in a few days. If symptoms are severe, reintroduce the original antidepressant (or another with a longer half-life from the same class) and taper gradually while monitoring for symptoms. Some evidence supports the use of anticholinergic agents in tricyclic withdrawal(25) and fluoxetine for symptoms associated with stopping clomipramine(26) or venlafaxine(27); fluoxetine, having a longer plasma half-life, seems to be associated with a lower incidence of discontinuation symptoms than other similar drugs.(28) Box 4.9 Key points that patients should know about antidepressant discontinuation syndromes Antidepressants are not addictive (a survey of 1946 people across the UK conducted in 1997 found that 74% thought that antidepressants were addictive(1)). Note, however, that the semantic and categorical distinctions between addiction and the withdrawal symptoms seen with antidepressants may be unimportant to patients. Patients should be informed that they may experience discontinuation symptoms (and the most likely symptoms associated with the drug that they are taking) when they stop their antidepressant. Short half-life antidepressants should not generally be stopped abruptly, although some patients may prefer to risk a short period of intense symptoms rather than a prolonged period of milder symptoms. Discontinuation symptoms can occur after missed doses if the antidepressant prescribed has a short half-life. A very few patients experience pre-dose discontinuation symptoms which provoke the taking of the antidepressant at an earlier time each day. From References p. 277 8. Tint A et al. The effect of rate of antidepressant tapering on the incidence of discontinuation symptoms: a randomised study. J Psychopharmacol 2008; 22:330-332. 9. Taylor D et al. Antidepressant withdrawal symptoms - telephone calls to a national medication helpline. J Affect Disord 2006: 95:l29-133. 10. Rosenhaum JF et al. Selective serotonin reuptalte inhibitor discontinuation syndrome: a randomized clinical trial. Biol Psychiatry 1998; 44:77-87. 11. Michelson D et al. Interruption of selective serotonin reuptalte inhibitor treatment. Double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. Br J Psychiatry 2000; l76:363-368. 12. Goodwin GM et al. Agornelatine prevents relapse in patients with rnaior depressive disorder without evidence of a discontinuation syndrome: a 24-week randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. J Clin Psychiatry 2009; 70:1128-ll37. 13. Berigan TR. Mirtazapine-associated withdrawal symptoms: a case report. Prim Care Companion J Clin Psychiatry 2001; 3:143. 14. Benazzi F. Mirtazapine withdrawal symptoms. Can J Psychiatry 1998;43:525. 15. Berigan TR et al. Bupropion-associated withdrawal symptoms: a case report. Prim Care Companion J Clin Psychiatry 1999; 1:50~5l. 16. Lejoyeux M et al. Antidepressant withdrawal syndrome: recognition, prevention and management. CNS Drugs 1996:5:278-292. 17. Haddad PM. Antidepressant discontinuation syndromes. Drug Saf 2001; 24:l83-l97. 18. Anon. Antidepressant discontinuation syndrome: update on serotonin reuptalre inhibitors. J Clin Psychiatry 1997; 58(Suppl 7):3-40. 19. Sir A et al. Randomized trial of sertraline versus venlafaxine XR in major depression: efficacy and discontinuation symptoms. J Clin Psychiatry 2005;66:1312-1320. 20. Baldwin DS et al. A double-blind. randomized. parallel-group. flexible-dose study to evaluate the tolerability. efficacy and effects of treatment discontinuation with escitalopram and paroxetine in patients with major depressive disorder. Int Clin Psychopharrnacol 2006;21:l59-l69. 21. Fava GA et al. Effects of gradual discontinuation of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors in panic disorder with agoraphobia. Int J Neuropsychopharmacol 2007:10:835-838. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 10, 2012 Author Administrator Share Posted November 10, 2012 From: [Altostrata] Subject: The Maudsley Prescribing Guidelines in Psychiatry Date: November 10, 2012 2:16:51 PM PST To: David.Taylor at slam.nhs.uk, carol.paton at oxleas.nhs.uk, shitij.kapur at kcl.ac.uk Dear Doctors Taylor, Paton, and Kapur: I am writing regarding the advice in the 2012 edition of The Maudsley Prescribing Guidelines in Psychiatry regarding discontinuation of antidepressants. Specifically, I am interested in the following statement: Many people suffer symptoms despite slow withdrawal and even if they have received adequate education regarding discontinuation symptoms.(8,21) For these patients, the option of abrupt withdrawal should be discussed. Box 4.9 lists the key points about which patients should be aware. Some may prefer to face a week or two of intense symptoms rather than months of less severe discontinuation syndrome. My question is: What is your evidence that abrupt discontinuation in the above situation leads to only a week or two of intense withdrawal symptoms? I cannot find this information in any of your references. To your knowledge, has this been put into clinical practice? What have the outcomes been? If it is indeed effective, it may resolve the entire issue of tapering. Why not discontinue everyone abruptly, if only a week or two of intense symptoms follow? Sincerely, Altostrata This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus dalsaan Posted November 11, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted November 11, 2012 Well done Alto, I'll be interested to see if you get a response. I have never seen any data/references supporting this approach and it defies logic from my perspective Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist. Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014. Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September. Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015. Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15). Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past. DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017 >My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarannamated Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Gia, any thoughts on Ann Blake-Tracy's book or CD on withdrawal? Someone mentioned in another thread that it is very, very heavy scientific info. I want to read it, but have been too overwhelmed to tackle it yet. The little I have read in her articles is inline with advice on this board: very slow tapers, less than 10% in many cases. Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiaK Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 no...I've not read it... In the past (it's been years since I looked at any of it) her work struck me as sensationalized and I stopped looking at it. As I said, it's been years so that's not something I stand by at this point. I don't really remember particulars about why I reached that impression. Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 11, 2012 Author Administrator Share Posted November 11, 2012 I agree with Gia. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus dalsaan Posted November 20, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted November 20, 2012 Hi Alto Did you get any response to your email? Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist. Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014. Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September. Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015. Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15). Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past. DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017 >My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 21, 2012 Author Administrator Share Posted November 21, 2012 From: Altostrata Subject: Re: The Maudsley Prescribing Guidelines in Psychiatry Date: November 15, 2012 10:25:44 AM PST To: David Taylor <David.Taylor at slam.nhs.uk> Cc: carol.paton at oxleas.nhs.uk, Shitij Kapur <shitij.kapur at kcl.ac.uk> How can you determine who will have only a week or two of symptoms and who will have more severe and long-lasting symptoms, i.e. who is a candidate for cold turkey? On Nov 11, 2012, at 6:37 AM, Taylor, David wrote: This advice is based on clinical and personal experience. I know of no studies which support abrupt withdrawal but we have observed that symptoms persist only for a week or two after sudden stopping. The reason it is not recommended to all is that the symptoms can be disabling and necessitate absence form work, etc. Symptoms are better tolerated in slow withdrawal. D Professor David Taylor Director of Pharmacy and Pathology This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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