Narcissus: just another Effexor story

[Narcissus]

I really wish I understood with some kind of reliability what the HELL is going on inside of my brain right now. The uncertainty is so immense that I feel crushed by it. The pain is so bad I could fall on my knees and pray.

[Jemima]

Can you focus long enough to tell us where you are in your tapering off of Effexor? Is there any chance you've miscalculated a dose? If the fish oil seems to bother you, don't take it.

 

In the meantime, until we can figure out what's going on, you might find this worthwhile reading:

 

Acceptance

 

Try not to fight against how awful you feel. That so often makes it worse.

 

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

[Narcissus]

Thanks for the acceptance bit. It's so hard not to resist when it gets really bad, but you're right, I'm sure it only makes it worst.

 

I've been at 75 mgs for the past 3 1/2 months trying to stabilize, which doesn't really seem to be happening. I'm wondering if I should start a very slow taper and see how I feel.

[Narcissus]

Another month and not much in the way of improvement. Feeling very discouraged.

[tezza]

Hi pgd,

 

I can relate to these feelings. I reinstated my med but tapered too soon after I felt better for a couple of days. It happened before I found this site. So then, I held for what seemed like forever and didn't seem to be getting any relief.

 

I'm sure my nervous system was healing during the three months I was holding though. I remember feeling like it was hopeless and thinking I would never get better. I finally decided to make a small cut, I went from .375 down to .35 so it was less than 10%.

 

I'm in no way suggesting that you make a cut, only you can decide if that's the thing to do but I did feel better a few days after the small taper. I heard someone else say there are good dosages that you sometimes hit on. I'm not sure about that or not. I just want you to know that it will get better and your nervous system has been healing while you were holding.

 

I really do hope you feel better soon!

 

Love,

 

Tezza

[jr1985]

Another month and not much in the way of improvement. Feeling very discouraged.

 

I know the feeling, I've been holding since July! I did feel better after holding for a while, but I messed a few things up (timing/dose/omega-3) and I haven't felt "right" since December. I have had some windows of relief, so I'm gonna keep holding to see if I improve any more. Have you had any windows at all?

[Narcissus]

Thank you both for the input. July, whoa! When do you think you might start your next taper?

 

I am thinking of trying a small reduction soon. I'm hoping it will bring some belief. At the very least it's something to DO, and we all know how important it is to feel like one is DOING something to improve one's condition.

 

Tezza, I like this idea of there being 'good dosages', I hope it's true in my case.

 

I suppose I do have windows, though they seem to be getting scarcer which worries me greatly. In the beginning I would have have days of furious flare ups followed by days of relative high energy and good mood. Now the flare-ups are less intense, but the good days seem less and common and less, well, good. Hopefully this is just a phase and not a permanent trend.

[Jemima]

I suppose I do have windows, though they seem to be getting scarcer which worries me greatly. In the beginning I would have have days of furious flare ups followed by days of relative high energy and good mood. Now the flare-ups are less intense, but the good days seem less and common and less, well, good. Hopefully this is just a phase and not a permanent trend.

 

I think this may be because the emotional ups and downs at the beginning of withdrawal are so extreme that it's difficult to appreciate the more subtle changes that come afterward. And there does seem to be a lengthy period of experiencing neuro-emotions and anhedonia after going through the worst of withdrawal for months.

 

My last dose of Lexapro was December 14, 2011 and I went through all sorts of ups, downs, windows, and waves up until the end of July 2012. At that point, I was able to will myself out of the house and start having a life again while being mostly emotionally numb.

 

At this point, the neuro-emotions (for me, baseless feelings of sadness and anxiety) are mostly gone and I'm beginning to have a few really good, normal windows again. I even experienced a spurt of creativity this morning and am hoping the upward trend continues.

 

I am absolutely astonished at how long this has taken, however. I was on antidepressants only this one time in my life for fifteen months, and it looks like it might take even longer than that to fully recover.

 

(BTW, it would be really helpful if you could put your drug history in your signature, like so:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Having to read and re-read a member's entire intro topic every time tends to discourage people from offering advice or empathy).

 

I wish I could tell you how to have patience and faith in your recovery, but it's one of those things that have to be taken a day at a time or even an hour at a time. Someday I expect to look back on this and conclude that anyone who has gone through antidepressant or benzo withdrawal can withstand *anything*.

[Narcissus]

Thank you Jemima, I hope my recovery assumes the same shape that yours has as this latest emptiness is almost intolerable and I really have to believe I'm headed for better places. I did have my drug history in my signature at one point, I wonder what happened to it. I'll put it back in soon.

[jr1985]

Thank you both for the input. July, whoa! When do you think you might start your next taper?

 

I am thinking of trying a small reduction soon. I'm hoping it will bring some belief...

 

Yes, it's been a long time but bear in mind that I haven't exactly been holding perfectly during that period. I discovered that timing is really important for me, even dosing an hour late can trigger withdrawal symptoms. I also discovered omega-3 is helping to keep me stable. Forgetting it and taking different doses triggered instability in me. Then of course the dose was changing slightly when I switched from weighing to counting beads and back again.

 

Because it doesn't take too much to knock me off, I haven't really had a period of longer than a week where I've been fully stable. But now I know what can set me off, in hoping I can eventually find stability and stay there for at least a month, then start tapering. When that will be, I have no idea.

[Narcissus]

Began my taper last night. Dropped 10% of the dose of Effexor that I've been on for the last 4 months, 75 mg.

 

I woke up feeling very strange. My first thought was ****, I've made a big mistake. As the day progressed, however, my mood lifted and my thinking became clearer than it's been in a very long time. There is a new withdrawal sensation under these improvements - but it's not bad really, more neutral.

 

I'm intrigued that I should feel such an improvement after dropping my dose, as I was expecting to feel worse. It's possible that this was an unrelated spike of clarity that will quickly evaporate after today. I'll just have to wait and see.

[Narcissus]

I spoke too soon. Yesterday and today have been miserable. If tapering is going to be this difficult I fear that I won't be able to handle it. My hope is that I'm still in a sensitized state, and that by postponing it the taper will be less intense when I finally start it.

[Altostrata]

Maybe a 5% decrease would be better for you.

[Narcissus]

Thanks Alto, I may give that a go.

[Altostrata]

pgd's screen name changed at his request.

[Narcissus]

Tired of suffering in isolation I went to see a psychologist today. I woke up today feeling strange and agitated. I considered cancelling my session but ultimately I decided to go. After talking a bit about withdrawal the psychologist asked me to 'tell my story' so to speak. I began and then a very strange thing happened.

 

I was totally at a loss as to how to 'tell my story'. I've seen several psychologists and I've told my story many times, so this was far from a new exercise. And yet I immediately felt stuck. The past seemed totally remote, irretrievable. I could break through occasionally but then it was impossible to form any kind of sequence of events. The threads simply wouldn't pull together. The psychologist, being a psychologist, noticed me struggling and figured I'd experienced some sort of trauma. It was hard to dissuade her of this, but it was clear to me that this was a cognitive issue. It wasn't that I couldn't tell my story, I couldn't tell any story. I'd somehow lost my ability to form a narrative, ANY narrative.

 

It was bizarre and extremely distressing. I still feel shaken by the whole thing.

 

Has anyone else experienced anything like this?

[tezza]

Sometimes, I'm asked to sing at church and a couple of times, I would not be able to remember the words. Not exactly the same but it was very embarrassing in front of a crowd. I was in severe withdrawals when I started going to church again. I had not been for a few years. They all knew something was wrong with me but just didn't know what it was.

 

I've gotten much better and they have seen that I'm sure. I still haven't made it church news as to what my problem is. I don't plan to either. They could just tell I was VERY depressed.

 

Loss of words is not a good feeling. I've kinda experienced something similar, only it was while I was singing.

[basildev]

Yes!

 

Not necessarily to the extent that you have described but definitely find it hard to find words and/or sentences that would normally come easily to me. This has only happened since I've been in withdrawal - I'll be in the middle of explaining something to a client and then I'll just go blank. Or I won't be able to find the right phrase, even though it's come easily to me in the past.

 

Also I forget the words for really simple items such as 'frypan' or 'washing machine' and end up referring to it as the 'thing'.

 

The other day I tried to put my hair up using a little accessory that I always use. Well, I was completely at a loss as to how to do it! It was very frightening.

 

It felt like the onset of mild dementia.

[tezza]

I have a lot of trouble finding the right words very often. I feel like my vocabulary shrunk!

[Narcissus]

Glad to hear it isn't just me. Yes, I've also found myself at a loss for words during several occasions. Odd because usually I tend to be overflowing with words. But this was more serious, it wasn't just that I couldn't find words, I couldn't form thoughts! I'm just glad it was a psychologist and not, I don't know, a 'real person'.

 

This stuff is just too weird, beyond the realm of acceptable experiences if you ask me. We're lab rats, only the researcher is deaf, dumb and blind, and maybe dead.

[Meimeiquest]

Do you think you're just in shock from joining the staff and stumbling onto the ladies' thread? Those things can be traumatic. . Congrats on your new role!

[Hudgens]

I have experienced severe confusion half a dozen times during the last 8 months (the period since I started wd symptoms). This is what I've noticed about them:

they're always unexpected, and always scary. But they're also always very temporary.

 

For example, I'll bet that right now you could tell your story. Isn't that true?

 

I'd also bet such episodes won't happen all that frequently. Hudgens

[tezza]

Not to worry, N, I think this is something that happens in WD. It just happens at times, like Hudgens said. Thank goodness!

[Narcissus]

Do you think you're just in shock from joining the staff and stumbling onto the ladies' thread? Those things can be traumatic. . Congrats on your new role!

 

Hah! Possibly, and thank you!

[Narcissus]

Thank you all for the encouragement. The effect has lasted more or less all day, just one element of a furious flare-up reminiscent of the beginning stages of my withdrawal. I'm really quite frightened. I've been in bad shape since I exercised too much 8 or 9 days ago, but today everything had a new and very dire edge to it. That bone-splitting tension as I think Alto called it somewhere came back in nearly full force. I thought I was over that stuff, it's scary to see it again. Really hideous stuff, the stuff of nightmares.

[Meimeiquest]

I was just joking...no possibly. And I do hope you feel better soon!

[Finn]

And I do hope you feel better soon!

 

Seconding this.

[Rhiannon]

Hi Narcissus. I just read through your thread for the first time. Nice to meet you. :-)

 

Just a couple of things I want to say: First, in my experience, there are certain things that seem to increase a person's risk of having bad and prolonged withdrawal from psych drugs, and you have three (of about four total) of them.

 

First: taking the drugs at a young age while the brain is still developing. Not that it ever stops really, but it seems like it's pretty common for people who take psych meds for a long time (more than a few months) before they reach their mid to late 20s to have more complicated withdrawals.

 

Second: a history of going up and down and up and down and up and down on dosages--multiple and frequent dosage (and/or medications, but not in this case) changes.

 

Third: History of past CT or rapid taper.

 

The reason I'm telling you this is to help you be patient with your healing process. You are very early in the healing process and clearly not yet stable, and I would say that is not at ALL unexpected given your history. Your nervous system is striving to achieve homeostasis while probably also striving to complete developmental processes that were interrupted by the drug use. This is complex and not easy. Please, please, be gentle and patient with yourself. Personally I think it's way too soon to be tapering again, that what would be best for you would be to stay put for at least another six months. Others may disagree, but that's my impression.

 

Anyway, hi, I've been enjoying your posts. Good luck to you. Be gentle with yourself, be patient! (I know, easy to say, impossible to do when your brain is about as calm and predictable as a wild carnival ride...)

[Narcissus]

Thank you Rhi. I'm struggling at the moment and your post has reassured me on a few fronts, I'm really very grateful. I have enjoyed reading your posts elsewhere, particularly some of your stuff on neuroplasticity.

 

I agree, I'm definitely not ready to taper, and will likely wait at least another six months like you suggest. God, I really hope things improve soon.

 

Please, please, be gentle and patient with yourself.

Thanks! I'll try my best.

[lexicon]

Hi dear Nar,

I wanted to thank you for coming to my rescue, with your support and encouragement ..

I am saddened to read that you are going through a tough time, I wish that you will feel better soon ..I will say a prayer ..

Keep the faith ..Things are bound to get better ..

Wishing you a serene night .. Lexicon

[Narcissus]

Thank you, lexicon. I think everyone here appreciates your warmth and kindness.

[basildev]

Hi Narcissus,

 

Just dropping by to see how you're doing on your journey - are you still holding at 75mg?

 

Are you feeling any better?

[Narcissus]

Hey Basildev, thanks for checking in. Sorry I haven't been around much recently, I've been preocuppied with trying to find a job.

 

It's been roughly six months now since I tried to kick Effexor, and I still feel pretty sick most the time. I've been doing consistently badly since I overexerted myself over month ago. I'm taking it easy and about to start a modest diet. The pervasive foggy/drugged feeling remains and is almost constant. I'm really beginning to feel burnt out. It's amazing how long these symptoms go on for. I'm finding it really exhausting trying to reflect on the whole thing, so I'm going to stop here. But in short, I'm not doing too hot. What about you, how are you faring? How have other people felt near the six month mark?

[basildev]

Hey Naricuss,

 

I'm doing okay. It's been 8 weeks since I updosed to 20 mg and stayed there. Sleep is still erratic and has gotten worse over the last month (before that it was getting better).

 

I'm in a similar situation to you in that I've updosed and it's taking a long time to feel completely normal, although many of my earlier symptoms have subsided.

 

You mentioned a while back that you had a really bad wave for about a month and then you came good. Do you think you're in another wave that was somehow kicked off my your over-exertion?

 

It reminds me of the table metaphor with regard to the brain striving for homeostasis - it sounds like the glue wasn't quite set in your 'table' and you put something a little too heavy (over-exertion) onto the table. Also, don't underestimate how incredibly stressful moving house and job hunting are at the best of times, not to mention when you're CNS is destablilized.

 

I think the slightest things can set us of when we're in this state. I've had 2 weekends of having people over for dinner and I think this (normally slight) interruption to my routine may have contributed to my sleep deteriorating.

 

I hope you feel better soon.

 

good luck with the job hunt:)

[Narcissus]

Thanks for the kind words.

 

You're probably right about the overexertion causing a wave. When things are bad it's really hard to see the 'big picture' of withdrawal. It definitely helps to be reminded.

 

Hope your sleep improves soon.

[basildev]

I totally get that feeling.

 

thanks