Narcissus: just another Effexor story

[strawberry17]

I think I'm in a similar kind of boat to you two, I've been struggling for the past 7 months, it's a bugger isn't it?

[basildev]

that it is, Strawb. That it is.

 

Between the 3 of us we can hopefully provide some useful data to others who might be experiencing a similar thing.

[strawberry17]

If it encourages you, I am after a few months seeing improvement in stability, I was having major anxiety/depression/insomnia, I've got to a point now where I have just some residual niggly anxiety around work which leads to sleeplessness, but I've got to a point where I can "woman up" and power on through it, accept it in a way, a few months ago I was totally and utterly floored by it.

[basildev]

exactly how many months since the last updose did you start to feel much better Strawb?

 

Narcissus - I'm being mindful of not wanting to hijack your personal thread - hopefully you'll be wanting hear the answer to this question too

[strawberry17]

It's in my signature, but I started feeling significantly better about 2 weeks after my last up dose on the 4th April so about mid April.

[Narcissus]

Narcissus - I'm being mindful of not wanting to hijack your personal thread - hopefully you'll be wanting hear the answer to this question too

No worries at all, just glad to have people here.

 

It's good to hear that you're getting a bit more stable Strawberry.

[strawberry17]

Thanks Narcissus, it's been a long old haul and about 3 up doses.

[basildev]

Narcissus,

 

I noticed in Strawberry's history that she updosed to higher amounts, felt it didn't work then went down again - similar to you in that you updosed from 75mg to 150 mg and felt it didn't work so you dropped down to 75mg again. (your changes in dosage were much greater though).

 

Strawberry eventually settled on 2ml which was, not counting all the fluctuations in between, an updose of 1ml.

 

I'm wondering whether now that your body has had some time to adjust to 75mg that you may be able to updose a little more (not to 150mg though)and this may not be as taxing on your CNS? Maybe your body needs a little more than 75mg at the moment?

[Narcissus]

Thanks for the suggestion Basildev.

 

I do of course think sometimes about going back up to my original dosage. Part of me worries that in doing so I might upset myself and undo months of progress. I'm not sure that progress can be undone in this way, but it's a persistent fear nonetheless. I've become frightened in an almost instinctual way of my drug and of tampering with my dosage.

 

Also, I guess I'm not convinced that it would help at this point. Strawberry, did you find relief immediately after updosing?

[basildev]

I know how you feel.

 

The last time I adjusted my dose I was in a world of pain. So I do think that altering your dose can cause adverse effects.

 

It's hard to know what to do.

[basildev]

How are you doing Narc?

[Rhiannon]

Thanks for the suggestion Basildev.I do of course think sometimes about going back up to my original dosage. Part of me worries that in doing so I might upset myself and undo months of progress. I'm not sure that progress can be undone in this way, but it's a persistent fear nonetheless. I've become frightened in an almost instinctual way of my drug and of tampering with my dosage.Also, I guess I'm not convinced that it would help at this point. Strawberry, did you find relief immediately after updosing?

In my own personal experience (which I realize is not universal, it's just mine) I've found that changing things, up or down, was seldom as helpful as just staying put and giving my CNS more time to adjust, heal, and settle down.

 

Again just me, but I do find that my body's ability to heal itself given enough time and support is, so far, always more powerful and helpful than throwing drugs into the soup.

 

This is coming from someone who was on and off and up and down various drugs for many years. I'm pretty sure that after all that, I used up every last "magic bullet" point I ever had, and my bodybrain just goes haywire when I throw chemical changes at it.

 

Time is my best friend. It feels like h*** and then some, waiting out the time necessary, but for me anyway, it's a much more sure thing than reaching for another chemical fix. For me, learning to ride out the awful feelings, to reach for support, to use mindfulness and lifestyle changes as much as possible, and to learn to just be patient with the process, has turned out to be way more helpful and powerful in my healing than anything you can find in a pharmacy.

 

I suspect, from knowing your history, that this might be a good approach for you too. But only you can say, of course.

[basildev]

I'm beginning to realize that as well, Rhi.

 

You seem to be among the few of us who have taking a long time (months) to stabilize as opposed to weeks.

 

That's comforting to hear for those of us who are playing the waiting game on the one dose, going through awful withdrawal and wondering if we'll ever get any better.

 

It's so hard just to sit tight and do nothing, especially when you're in Narc's situation where he's been holding for such a long time.

[Rhiannon]

Actually these days with my tiny slow taper I usually only hold for a week or so, with periodic longer holds (like now). But when I was first starting out I was way more unstable, due to previous CTs and too-rapid tapers and just too many years on drugs. Now I adapt faster, but  only to extremely small cuts. No way I could cut 10% at once, for example.

[Narcissus]

Thank you for your comments Rhi.After more than six months of being very sick I am considering updosing from my 75 mg dose of Effexor.  If anyone has any advice on this matter I'd love to hear it.

[basildev]

Have you had any windows during that time Narc?

[Narcissus]

Yes, I think so.  Still, I feel pretty bad, and certainly altered most of the time.  If updosing would provide some relief I'd like to do it.  But of course there's no way to be sure that it would help.  Has anyone else tried it several months out and had any success?

[Altostrata]

Since you had such a bad time with a higher dose, I'd be very careful about increasing at this point.

[Narcissus]

Since you had such a bad time with a higher dose, I'd be very careful about increasing at this point.

Thanks for the word of caution Alto.  It's not totally clear to me whether that bad time was the result of the updose or not, since it was just after withdrawal had hit full force.  I think that I need to try it, and if it doesn't help I'll know that there's nothing for me to do but wait.

[Altostrata]

A small trial increase might be the ticket.

[abir]

how are you doing Narc?

i don't know if my experience can be helpful to you - i reinstated after 5 months with a high dose for 3 days then went down to a small dose... the 6th month was the WORST MONTH for me (i think that is because of the reinstatement with a HIGH dose and probably because my symptoms were going to get worse anyways).. it has been 2 months since i started that low dose and this is my 8 th month since stopping AD, and now i am starting to feel much better... i saw a huge improvement this past week...

i hope you are doing better...

[Narcissus]

Thanks for checking in, Abir.  I'm not doing all that well.Do you think that reinstating has been helpful overall?  How did you feel before you decided to reinstate?

[abir]

sorry to hear that...

 

before reinstatement, my worst symptom was the anxiety - it started at 6 am or earlier, and it lasted until until 3pm, then it started to get better.. the anxiety was really bad that nothing could take my mind off of it -  i was not able to eat, speak, stand up straight... or do anything..

i reinstated because of that - but like said earlier, i reinstated at a high dose (25mg) which, although it got rid of my anxiety right away (took it first night, no anxiety the next morning) but it gave other symptoms: mainly i was not able to sleep at night (from bad hot flashes every 20 minutes, or breathing problems, or heart racing or nightmares as i am falling asleep).. so for the first month after reinstatement, i felt worse than i have ever felt since stopping ADs.. I took that high dose for only 3 days, and 4 days after that my anxiety came back (but it was worse than before, it was all day and night) and i continued to struggle with the other symptoms that started with reinstatement for more than a month and a half...i was not sleeping at night or during the day, and during the day was too sleepy, weak, freezing cold, lightheaded, anxious, weeping..........

 

so in short, to tell you the truth, i don't know if it is the reinstatement that got me better now (although it made me much worse for a long time first) or it was time for my body to stabilize... who knows... this thing is totally unpredictable...

 

if it helps, i found that i had to be very gentle with my body, anything would make the anxiety worse: i can't get hungry or eat too much, no caffeine, no chocolate, no sugar, no alcohol, no spicy food, can't exert myself physically or mentally.... etc...

 

i wish you good luck... i hope you will stabilize soon too... only a week ago, i felt stuck in this withdrawal, felt that things will never get better...felt scared and overwhelmed... what a difference a week can make... i hope things will start changing for the better for you soon..

[Narcissus]

Thanks for your kind words Abir.  

 

I've decided against updosing for now, the risks are just too great.

 

Feeling very discouraged as of the last week or so.  I'm amazed at how strong the symptoms still are.  It's very difficult to tell whether I'm improving or not.  

[Jemima]

 

Feeling very discouraged as of the last week or so.  I'm amazed at how strong the symptoms still are.  It's very difficult to tell whether I'm improving or not.  

 

It always seems that way during a wave.  I've been feeling very much in a rut for the past two months, but when I updated my Intro today and began listing areas of improvement, I realized that I had been getting better all along.  I also referenced how I felt at the end of last October when I had to tolerate noisy housepainters for two days--in response to someone's else's post--and the contrast with how I feel today was outright startling.  (That, by the way, was nine months out from my last crumb of Lexapro, and I didn't go through all of the ups, downs, and cold turkeys prior to stopping Lexapro that you have on a much nastier drug.)

 

If the saying that what goes around comes around is true, you're definitely in line for an upswing.  I greatly appreciate your posts, your ability to keep a cool head, and that you keep providing intelligent, compassionate responses to other members despite your own pain.

[Rhiannon]

 

 

Feeling very discouraged as of the last week or so.  I'm amazed at how strong the symptoms still are.  It's very difficult to tell whether I'm improving or not.  

 

 

 

If the saying that what goes around comes around is true, you're definitely in line for an upswing.  I greatly appreciate your posts, your ability to keep a cool head, and that you keep providing intelligent, compassionate responses to other members despite your own pain.

 

 

Hear, hear! I ditto muchly!

 

And I know it's not much help (well let's be honest it's really no help at all)--but reading over your history I think it's completely unsurprising that you're still having some rough bouts. I know it's discouraging, but it's unfortunately pretty normal for a history like that. You're going to get through this (too slowly, but still) and in a year you'll be feeling better, and in two years you'll be feeling  MUCH better. At least, that's the kind of outcome I expect for you.

[Narcissus]

 

 

If the saying that what goes around comes around is true, you're definitely in line for an upswing.  I greatly appreciate your posts, your ability to keep a cool head, and that you keep providing intelligent, compassionate responses to other members despite your own pain.

Thank you!  This is wonderful to hear.  I manage to contribute every now and then, but truthfully I'm amazed at how you're able to provide cogent and selfless responses to nearly all of the people that stop in here.  You are a bit of a super moderator, an example for us all.  It gives the impression of someone with tireless energy, not someone slogging through withdrawal.  And yet in reality I'm sure you're struggling like the rest of us.  We all appreciate your dedication, truly.

 

I'm glad you were able to uncover some of the progress you've made earlier.  You're right that the waves often make this realization next to impossible.  I'm amazed (and a bit disturbed) by how helpless and repetitive my thinking and behavior becomes during waves.  While I feel I should know better by now the moment a bad episode starts I re-enter the same desperate amnesic state, which somehow refuses to become familiar (maybe it's the subtle changes in withdrawal that prevents this).  It's as if I'm unable to learn from my experience in the conventional ways, or whatever I do learn becomes unstuck when a jarring flare-up begins.  It's very weird, so unlike 'normal' experiences.

 

Thanks again for your input.  Today was a huge improvement.  

[Narcissus]

Thanks Rhi!  I know it shouldn't be surprising, but it somehow manages to be.  The learning curve is truly steep for this whole withdrawal thing.  I really appreciate your presence here on the board, it alleviates some of the anxiety that tends to hover around here.

[Jemima]

 

Thank you!  This is wonderful to hear.  I manage to contribute every now and then, but truthfully I'm amazed at how you're able to provide cogent and selfless responses to nearly all of the people that stop in here.  You are a bit of a super moderator, an example for us all.  It gives the impression of someone with tireless energy, not someone slogging through withdrawal.  And yet in reality I'm sure you're struggling like the rest of us.  We all appreciate your dedication, truly.

 

 

 

Aw, shucks.

 

I actually have several real advantages over the other mods.  One is that I was a psychotherapist for many years, and the other is that I've been off antidepressants since mid-December of 2011.  Although I'm still experiencing withdrawal to a certain extent, it's mostly emotional numbing at this point and I'm not having the ups and downs of someone who's cold-turkey-ed a med or someone who is still tapering off and hitting some nasty bumps along the way.

 

To be honest, helping others helps me, and that's a powerful motivator to pop in often and do what I can do. (I also have days when a problematic poster pushes me over the top and I just don't wanna sign on at all).

 

But thank you for all the compliments.  Every little bit of encouragement helps.

[Narcissus]

I had no idea you were once a psychotherapist.  May I ask why you gave it up?  I've thought about going into counseling/psychotherapy myself.

[Jemima]

I had no idea you were once a psychotherapist.  May I ask why you gave it up?  I've thought about going into counseling/psychotherapy myself.

 

There were two reasons.  One is that I ended up specializing in addictions, particularly heroin addiction, which involved having to supervise so-called ex-addict counselors and work with them every day.  When funding was cut, my formerly cooperative coworkers turned on me because I was the white lady with a Master's degree who had never been addicted to anything stronger than coffee, so they figured I'd be the last to go unless they could make me look bad, which they tried to do to the best of their sleaziest abilities.  The situation became miserably uncomfortable.  I was also going through a divorce and my husband was the director of research at the same mental health facility so it was an extremely awkward situation.  There were precious few other mental health facilities in the area and they were all interrelated, so I dropped out of the field and tried selling insurance for a while, which was a miserable flop.  Eventually I went back to school and became a CPA.

 

The second reason is that counseling jobs became less and less available after Federal funding was cut in the early 1980s.  They are just about non-existent now in the Philadelphia area and the few therapists I've met in the past ten years or so work as independent contractors, generally on call  to sub for regular staff.  I wouldn't mind being a therapist again, but opening a private practice is too risky for my taste and there seem to be very few other options.

 

However, if you've got the cojones to go into private practice or join one, I think you'd be very good at it.  I would go back into the field myself if I came across the right kind of job.

[strawberry17]

Well we're getting the benefit of all your experience here Jemima.

[abir]

Thank you Narcissus for your post, i am feeling better today...

how are you feeling these days? are you seeing any improvement??

[Narcissus]

Not doing too well the past few days, but yes, overall things are improving.  Thanks for checking in, glad to hear that you're doing better.

[abir]

good that overall, there is improvement.. i hope that continues

[Narcissus]

I accidentally took my daily dose of 75 mgs Effexor twice before going to bed.  Ugh, what a nightmare.