Narcissus: just another Effexor story

[Petunia]

Brought tears to my eyes too, and I can't even cry at the moment.  What a wonderful post, gave me a little ray of hope (again), I'm in a bad way at the moment.  These little windows of being able to feel something good again are so precious and reminders that we are not broken beyond repair, just a matter of time.

 

I loved what you wrote about the wind tearing through the trees and you feeling awe, I almost felt it too.

[Cookson]

Really good to hear from you and encouraging to read. Must be nice to see the clouds opening up slowly and things appearing less grey and black.

Liked the first picture. The 2nd one though?!

Looks like souls being dammed for all time spiralling down to a bottomless void lost to oblivion. Ironic really you have that picture in your toilet

[Petunia]

Hi Narcissus,

I haven't seen you online for a few days, are you still seeing improvements from the acupuncture treatments?

[Narcissus]

Hi, Petu.  Last week was wonderful until I had to work.  Almost without fail, working brings out my symptoms or at least closes a window should I happen to be experiencing one.  I bus in a bar, which is not at all stressful but it does require that I move around a bit.  During the days that I work (and for at least a day after) I experience what I've come to call "shredded head", that feeling of being depleted and completely without energy and yet somehow restless.  The "shredded head" returned with a vengeance after I started work on Thursday.  It was particularly hard to bear since I had been feeling so good before that.  

 

I received my third treatment yesterday, and so far it hasn't seemed to be as powerful as the first two.  The first half of today has been pretty standard withdrawal, although a little bit of last week's clarity is looming up as a I write this.  My acupuncturist seems to do something different every week, so perhaps the sites he worked on this week were not as closely linked with my withdrawal.  I noticed that the needles didn't hurt as much as they had during the previous session.  I may be mistaken but I got the sense last week that the more painful points were the most healing.  

 

Anyway, I'll continue to check in.  I have faith that the acupuncture is helping, although an anxious and obsessive part of me wonders if last week wasn't some weird blip that will never be recaptured.  It's so difficult not to fret about these things.

[Petunia]

 I have faith that the acupuncture is helping...

 

It probably is, for reasons related to the second theory in my response to your last post on my thread.

[Lexy]

How are you doing? I noticed you haven't posted or updated lately.

[Nikki]

Yes, how are you?

[Lexy]

I hope the reason you are not posting is that you have recovered and are doing well.

[Narcissus]

I hope the reason you are not posting is that you have recovered and are doing well.

 

If only!

 

 

Yes, how are you?

 

Doing very badly at the moment, so badly that it's impossible to tell how I'm doing outside of today.  Christ, sometimes I just don't think I can take it.  

[Meimeiquest]

I was afraid of that...so sorry! If you're able, tell us how today is and what you're doing now, like supplements, acupuncture, etc. if you're not up to it, know that we have really missed you around here!

[Narcissus]

 

 

know that we have really missed you around here! 

 

It really helps to hear that.  Thank you.

 

 

 

 

tell us how today is and what you're doing now

 

Today I feel panicked and almost entirely unable to function.  I don't think I can describe it.  These waves are terrible.  They're familiar but somehow always new.

 

Three weeks ago (reaching back in memory is such a strain) I fell asleep without taking my Effexor.  Then, in the haze of  symptoms that followed, I forgot twice again over the next few weeks.  Over the past year forgetting my meds (or taking them twice) has always been a disaster, kicking up waves that would last weeks.  This time around didn't seem as catastrophic.  I experienced food cravings, low energy and very poor mental functioning, but less of the tension that normally follows a destabilization.  That changed two days ago as I began to feel deeply restless, and today the tension seems to be climaxing.  I know this is probably just a slightly delayed reaction to messing up my meds, but it feels so damned DIRE, impossible to explain away.

 

I stopped with the acupuncture after my 5th session.  I stopped feeling improvements after the first two sessions, and then I was growing concerned that it was making things worse.  I think I may start up again though.

 

I haven't taken supplements in many months, maybe I should think about starting on a few.

 

I was feeling extremely desperate earlier and I emailed a counselor.  It felt like it might help to try to talk through these terrible flare-ups.  Anything to get a little CONTINUITY between them.

[Meimeiquest]

That really stinks. If I was that sensitive to med fluxes, I would be a trembling quiver...no one can do everything right all the time. Great on the counselor, if it is someone good.

 

This sounds like an autonomic nervous system panic over missing doses. Do you know everything to do for that?

[Narcissus]

 

 

This sounds like an autonomic nervous system panic over missing doses. Do you know everything to do for that? 

 

Normally, probably.  Now, no.  Can you help? 

 

Thank you meime, it's great to have someone here.

[Narcissus]

Received this encouraging response from the counselor:

 

 

 

Thank you for your message. 

It is (as you know) not uncommon for people who stop SNRI's (like Effexor) or SSRI's to experience withdrawal symptoms briefly and it sounds like you do not need me to tell you that there is not a lot of good data on treating those symptoms in cases of much longer periods of more severe symptoms. 

I have worked with several clients who have really struggled with lengthier symptoms of withdrawal, and while I obviously cannot know exactly what your experience has been like I can tell you that my approach tends to be one of working through the stigma associated with other people not understanding the symptoms (or even questioning their existence), how to be an advocate for yourself when navigating communication with medical providers, and grieving the loss of sense of control that can occur (sometimes for some people that can be seen in the form of self-criticism for having chosen medication management in the first place, or anger at others who were involved in the decision). Another component of therapy for withdrawal symptoms involves increasing coping skills for living with the actual physical symptoms.

 

[Petunia]

The counselor's response sounds promising, it touches on a few relevant issues, do you think you may go ahead with counseling?

 

Thank you for posting again, I've also missed you here, hoping things had improved, but concerned they had not.  It could just be my imagination, but it seems more of us just lately have been having increased symptoms, or greater difficulty in handling them.

 

 

Today I feel panicked and almost entirely unable to function.  I don't think I can describe it.  These waves are terrible.  They're familiar but somehow always new.

 

 

This was me yesterday, had one of the worst days ever, whatever it was, it started to subside around the middle of the afternoon, but I was completely shattered.  I had woken up at 4am and been unable to go back to sleep and I'm not on any medication, so my waves have nothing to do with missed doses.  I know this doesn't help you, but you are not alone in going through this confusing, frightening process, looking for some sense of control and understanding, where there seems to be none.

 

Its morning here, I'm in a bad way as usual when I first wake up, don't usually post here until later, but...... hang in there, we are here for you.

[Meimeiquest]

Wow! That is not something you find everyday! OK, ideas about ANS problems, which is mostly a battle with cortisol.

 

Gentle walks, in nature as much as possible

Go to bed and get up at same time every day (easy at my age, probably not so much for you), regardless of how much you slept (this is turning out to be really important for me now that I'm off my AD)

Sleep in the DARK. I just bought an expensive, but wonderful Tempurpedic sleep mask on Amazon

Magnesium supplements, I think you found fish oil too activating, but could eat fish

Epsom salts baths if needed

Avoid sugar and white flour as much as possible. Eat whole foods, especially vegetables.

Maybe have your vitamin D blood level checked?

 

When I am wigging out, as they say in TN, I lay on the floor (it feels more solid) with a pillow and just try to go inside until all I focus on is breathing...in, out, in, out. And when I calm down, to ask myself, what do I need now?

[Narcissus]

Petu, thank you very much for taking the time to describe your experiences the other day.  It comes as a revelation every time I realize that I'm not alone and that others are out there having similar experiences.  The realization never seems to sick, and whatever's left of it is always blasted away completely when a wave hits.  I hope you've restabilized some since that early wake up threw you off.

 

And thank you meime for your list of nervous system calming activities.   I may try your floor exercise, although I'm a little wary...when I'm having a wave I find that the last thing I want to do is focus on what's happening inside me.  Generally I try to distract myself as much as possible until the symptoms subside.  Maybe this isn't a good strategy.

 

I'm deeply touched (to an extent that troubles me a little) that I'm thought of by others here.  I've felt so profoundly selfish since I've become sick, I'm amazed that you guys are able to keep others in mind when you yourselves are suffering.  

 

Thank you both, I hope you're in good health and spirits tonight.

[Petunia]

 I may try your floor exercise, although I'm a little wary...when I'm having a wave I find that the last thing I want to do is focus on what's happening inside me.  Generally I try to distract myself as much as possible until the symptoms subside.  Maybe this isn't a good strategy.

 

 

I've struggled with this, not knowing whether to face the symptoms or distract from them.  I've actually written about it in my thread somewhere.  Someone gave me the advice of 'do whatever works'.

 

Problem was, different things work at different times and sometimes, nothing works at all.  When nothing works, I've come to the conclusion that whatever is going on, is something I 'need' to feel and face (for my own good), like as if it's something I need to 'process' and release from my body.

 

Actually, at times like that, I do what Meime does, but on my bed, not the floor. 

 

I guess a lot of it depends on what the symptom is.  Two things I have found to sometimes be helpful for reducing a build up of inner pressure (energy, vibration, tension) is walking around outside barefoot or taking a shower, I'm not sure I believe this, but I've read that it somehow grounds energy.

 

As long as I'm not having cognitive problems, or feeling too emotionally drained, I find helping here on the forum is a good distraction from my own symptoms.

 

I don't think its selfish (in a bad way), to focus on yourself when you are sick and suffering.  There is limited energy in a sick body, sometimes that body needs to use everything it has for its own survival.

 

My latest wave is on its way out, but as usual, the physical stuff subsides, but then I'm left with an aftermath of emotional shock/trauma to deal with.

 

I hope you are feeling better now.

[Meimeiquest]

Narcissus, pull up that feature where you can see all your posts. You have shown great kindness and empathy. No wonder you have been missed.

[bubble]

I read through some of your last posts since November.

 

It's so nice people reached out to you. (I didn't 'know' you back then

 

Not much can be said, sometimes we just have to be, and be, and be... and most the others can do is be with us.

 

I just want to highlight what Petu so beautifully said: I don't think its selfish (in a bad way), to focus on yourself when you are sick and suffering.  There is limited energy in a sick body, sometimes that body needs to use everything it has for its own survival.

 

My colleague's husband, a former shrink who denounced his profession and medicine in general and is over 80 told us the same thing about coping startegies when not feeling well. I think he mentioned cats do that when they are not well: they just curl up to preserve all the energy they have and focus it on healing. So these reflex is very natural.

 

But with our condition the trick is to know when to uncurl and push ourselves a bit into activity, reaching out towards other people, etc. I alternate these things: ok, today I will be as inactive as I need to be. But a day or two after these states I just tell myself: ok, today we are going up the hill, or meeting a friend (sorry if you don't really like it but that's what we are doing and you will rest tomorrow).

 

I go to work every day and have a pretty demanding job...some days I take what I call 'sick leave at work'.. 

 

Not much help but just wanted to let you know we are here for you / each others

 

And we are here to remind you of the whole of you when neuro emotions erase certain parts of your identity...

 

bubble

[Altostrata]

Please, Narcissus, by all means take care of yourself. We miss you but we want you to heal, too.

[mammaP]

I agree Narcissus, take care of yourself. Let it be, curl up and ride the wave, it has to abate eventually.

I think that waves always seem to be the worst ever for most of us and it is so easy to forget the 

windows. I hope your wave is over soon, it's been a long one and must be on it's way out now. 

 

Squishy Mamma hug on it's way to San Francisco. 

[Rhiannon]

Thinking of you. You are much loved here, I think. I wish I could help you. All I can say is that I have seen you better in the past, and I know better days will come again in the future, no matter how impossible it is right now to imagine or feel that.  When you can't hold on to knowing that, we'll hold on to it for you. Hang in there.

[Rhiannon]

Also, that counselor sounds like a winner!

[lespaul19]

just a random thought narcissus, doesnt effexor only act on norepinephrine at does's 150mg and above? since you took 150mg for a while, would this be the reason its been harder for you to stabilze? if alto or anyone knowledgeable about this could chime in and be more help thatd be nice, im still learning these things

[Narcissus]

lespaul, I've heard that, it's certainly possible.  On the other hand, I found I wasn't able to go back up to 150.  

 

Anyway, I've had a nice big window open up over the last week.  I've started exercising and it seems to be clearing up some of my symptoms.  I've often struggled with exercise during withdrawal, but I've been doing about 15 to 20 minutes a day on the treadmill and I seem to be handling it fine so far.  More than just handling it, I seem to be having improvements across the board.  Let's hope this continues.

 

How are my people here?  Are things looking up?  Down?  Sideways?

[Petunia]

That's very encouraging news

 

Did you start using the treadmill before you started to feel better?  What kind of intensity exercise are you doing on the treadmill - running, jogging, uphill walking?  I'm asking because I'm still at the stage where if I do anything which gets my heart rate up  much, I end up feeling awful, so I don't do it.

 

And I'm wondering if you felt the same way at first, but kept going anyway.

 

Hoping your window stays open.

[lexicon]

This is absolutely wonderful news Nar

w0w .. Such a blessing .. About time heaven smiled down on you ..

 

Wishing you additional blessings, for beautiful, breezy windows every day If you feel generous Nar, please send a much needed window, my way .. I will be grateful ..

 

Thinking of you, and holding you in prayer ..

 

Love, Lexicon

[Altostrata]

So good to hear, Nar.

[Narcissus]

Bad news!

 

A feeling of awful mental/physical tension mounting over the past few days, seems to be reaching a climax this afternoon.  I am restless, crazed, NOT having a good time.  I received an acupuncture treatment from a new acupuncturist on Thursday, I'm wondering if it stirred some things up.  During the treatment the lady stuck two needles in my neck, which was the first time that had been done to me.  The first needle was fine, but the second needle almost immediately produced a very strange kind of straining feeling in my head.  I immediately complained about it and she took it out and put it back in, I guess slightly differently this time.  Either it went away or I got used to it, but this is the first time I've had an immediate reaction like that to a needle.  Anyway, Friday I felt restless, Saturday was worst, and today is almost unbearable.  Very strange to have this after feeling so clear and healthy.  I'm hoping that it's the acupuncture and not the exercise.  Either way, I'll be taking it easy for the next few days.  

 

As bad and crazy as I feel, it's not quite like it was in the earlier days of withdrawal - no craving for food, less flu like symptoms, less exhaustion.

 

Petu, I was running for 16 minutes at 5.5 miles per hour - burning about 200 calories.  Before that though, I eased into things by riding my bike around a bit.  Do you have a bike?  It can be good gentle exercise, or more vigorous when you want it to be.

 

Anyway, could use some love during this crazy spell.  Glad to have somewhere to ride out the storm.

[Rhiannon]

Sorry about the bad spell, but it's great you're doing well enough to check back in, I was wondering how you were doing.

 

Remember that bad spells don't always have to be figured out. Sometimes they just happen no matter what you do. It does sound in this case like it might be associated with the acupuncture; but maybe it would have happened regardless. Just keep doing the things that you know help you. It sounds like the good times are getting better, and that's a good sign.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Hi Nar,

 

Glad to see you checked in but sad to hear it's not such good news. Perhaps leave off the acupuncture for a bit? At least until things settle down for you. Sending you all the loving thoughts you want!

[Narcissus]

Thanks Rhi.  You may be right, it may just be a necessary convulsion on my way to recovery.  It's so hard not to fly into "Why is this happening?!" mode when the terror starts.  I guess I'm just amazed at how powerful this eruption is, and how out of the blue it feels.  I'll do my best to accept it, and become one with it so to speak.  

 

Thank you Cymbalta, I'll do my best to be receptive to those loving thoughts. I'll definitely be leaving off the acupuncture for a while.  

 

I hope you guys are well, hearing from you makes things a little easier to bear.

[bubble]

Dear Narcissus,

 

these things are so strange: I read your post about a nice window and didn't have the time to write about how great it was when this bed spell happened.

 

However, I still think that that window is a more powerful sign that things are coming together. I had a very bad reaction to meditation and breathing exercises (because I later realized it was a too aggressive kriya). We are just so susceptible to everything in this state.

 

But having this forum is priceless and I wish I could at least through my words send you some nice energy to bring you some relief.

 

hugs,

bubble

[Narcissus]

Thank you bubble.

Things are still going poorly.  I went back to the acupuncturist a week ago, hoping she might be able to help with whatever happened after the other visit.  Not much happened as a result.  Today I had a terrible attack, head aches and incredible inner tension, I drove off to a remote part of a local park and staggered around sobbing.  These things are so, so strange.  I really don't know what to think about the exercise, sometimes I think it helps, sometimes I think it hurts.  I'm hoping this is all from the acupuncture.  Even so, I think I'm going to cut out the exercise until things settle down.  

 

This cannot believe we have to go through this, and that it lasts for so long.  

 

Does anyone have any encouraging words?  I'm in a very fearful place.

[Altostrata]

First, good news that you have the emotional openness to fall in love.

 

Second, it sounds like that acupuncturist just doesn't get what it is you need. Try another?

 

Please hang in there, Narcissus. We cherish you here.