gevys survival from effexor ( new method treatment withdrawal from antidepressants)

[Altostrata]

gevys, where else are you posting this information?

[gevys]

Sorry , I must close this information in other site? its rule?

[gevys]

Mr. adminisrator! If need i close all information about my method in other forum. Next week I whant to show full protocols my experiments only in Your forum.

Your Gevys

[Altostrata]

gevys, I'm just curious about discussion elsewhere.

[gevys]

Dear administrator! Thank You very much for Your interest . You forum is absolutely leader from other forums . Only in one forum *Pharmacy rewiewer* discussion of my method may to compare with dicussion in Your forum (28 replies and 382 views against 39 replies and 495 views ). Very soon I will show full text my protocols only in Your forum.

Best regard

Your Gevys

[gevys]

Dear friends ! I look a large interest to my method of elimination of effexor withdrawal .Therefore i decided to show full text protocol of my personal experiment , in which i tried to come off from effexor withdrawal . I hope that my experience help You to fight with effexor and other antidepressants withdrawal

Your Gevys

 

 

Sorbitol eliminates withdrawal from effexor (personal experiment).

 

The purpose:

To investigate dynamics of depression severity on the scale of Hamilton after peroral administration of 13% solution of sorbitol in the combination with effexor in the patient with melancholic depression, resistant to effexor. To show decrease of effective dose of effexor and possibility of the full replacement of effexor by sorbitol . To eliminate effexor withdrawal by sorbitol .

 

The place of the experiment: Israel, Jerusalem

 

The experiment beginning: 30/06/2002.

The experiment end: 28/07/2002.

 

The investigator: Gevys made experiment on itself.

 

Diagnosis of patient: melancholic depression. He is ill within 1.5 years.The reason is the mental trauma bound to divorce and break of usual communications after repatriation to Israel.

The patient took in unorganized manner prozac (fluoxetine) 40-60 mg a day, diazepam 10-15 mg a day. He first turned to a psychiatrist in April, 2001. The diagnosis: Major depression. Acute phase. Attempt of suicide.

It is prescribed effexor, 35 mg 2 times a day and alprazolam (xanax), 1-1.5 mg a day. Within a year the dose of effexor has been enlarged to 150 mg/kg a day. Owing to the fact that depression was transformed in the decompensated form and paresthesia was developed on the left hand in consequence of insufficient effexor dose, the dose of effexor is enlarged to 225 mg. After augmentation of the antidepressant dose depression was partially compensated, paresthesia was considerably decreased.

For the experiment the dose effexor has been used 150 mg a day, yet not causing depression compensation.

Duration of experiment - 28 days, with30/06/2012 on 28.07.2012.

 

The mental depressive state of the patient 30.06.2012 on a scale of Hamilton estimates at 9 o'clock as partially compensated and corresponding to the big depressive status (Hamilton scale in points 30 from 52 greatest possible). The most important indexes of the depressive status are shown below :

 

1. Depressive mood 3 points (the maximum 4 points).

2. Sense of guilt 3 points (the maximum 4 points)

3. Suicidal intents 2 points (the maximum 4 points).

4. Working capacity and activity 2 points (the maximum 4 points).

5. Slow response 2 points ((the maximum 4 points).

6. Agitation 2 points (the maximum 4 points).

7. Psychic anxiety 3 points (the maximum 4 points).

8. Somatic anxiety 2 points (the maximum 4 points).

9. A hypochondria 2 points ((the maximum 4 points).

 

The patient takes over 150 mg of effexor in day (75 mg in the morning at 8 o'clock and 75 mg in the evening at 20 o'clock).

The experimental scheme:

8-00 sorbitol 13%, 100 ml (13 g) + effexor.

9-00 first eating.

12.30 sorbitol 13%, 100 ml alone (without effexor).

13.30 second eating.

 

19-00 sorbitol 13%, 100 ml + effexor.

20-00 third eating.

 

After withdrawal from effexor:

8.00 sorbitol 13%, 100 ml.

9-00 first eating

 

12.30 sorbitol 13%, 100 ml

13.30 second eating.

 

19.00 sorbitol 13%, 100 ml.

20-00 third eating.

 

If sorbitol produced side effects (diarhea, abdominal pain, nousea), you may decrease dose of sorbitol to 6.5 g (13%, 50 ml).

 

Within first two weeks of experiment the combined oral administration of effexor and sorbitol allowed to reduce in 2 times effective daily dose of effexor from 150 mg to 75 mg (in the first week from 150 mg to 112.5 mg, in the second week from 112.5мг to 75 mg a day). In this case had place the appreciable improvement of the depressive mental status (gravity of depression has been decreased from 28-30 points on the scale of Hamilton to 15-16 points).

The use of effexor has been stopped completely in the beginning of the third week of experiment that has resulted after 2-3 days to the development of the withdrawal and sharp increase of gravity of the depressive status (till 30-31 points on the scale of Hamilton). Taking sorbitol was not stopped during the third week of the experiment and has resulted in the end of the third week to appreciable reduction of gravity of effexor withdrawal. In 15-20 minutes after use sorbitol appreciable improvement of the depressive status took place (from 25-28 points on a scale of Hamilton till 15-17 points), drowsiness occured, sense of comfort, the depressive mood and agitation were eliminated, the anxiety and disturbance were decreased, working capacity raised, there was an appetite.

Duration of therapeutical action of sorbitol was not less than 2-3 hours. The satisfactory depressive status of the patient (15-17 points on a scale of Hamilton) has allowed to reduce in the beginning of fourth week of experiment a single dose of sorbitol to 6.5 g (13% solution, 50 ml).

Within the first 2 days after cessation of taking sorbitol there was essential deterioration of the depressive status of the patient (sorbitol withdrawal) which however did not exceeded 25-26 points on a scale of Hamilton and proceeded much easier, than the similar effexor withdrawal. After two days there was a acute improvement of the depressive status of the patient (17-18 points on a scale of Hamilton) that took about much easier severity of withdrawal of sorbitol in comparison with withdrawal of effexor.

After 28 days of experiment (14-th day after withdrawal of effexor) the mental depressive status of the patient was estimated as 14-16 points on a scale of Hamilton. There was moderate depressive syndrome (no more than 1 ball) and practically there was no anxiety syndrome (0-1 point).

 

Conclusions.

Patient Gevys has the compensated form of melancholic depression. A withdrawal of effexor is in compensation stage.

The main result of the experiment is the fact of appreciable anxiolytic actions of sorbitol after its subchronic (4 weeks) using which develops immediately after oral administration, lasts for 2-3 hours and gradually strengthens at its repeated administration.

Antidepressive action of sorbitol is expressed much less and is developed only after 2-3 weeks of taking sorbitol. The combined administration of sorbitol with effexor caused to twofold reduction of effective dose of effexor and appreciable increasing of anxiolytic action. The antidepressive effect of effexor enhanced not significant.

Taking sorbitol allowed to decrease considerably the effexor withdrawal and completely to eliminate its consequences already after 3-4 days after stopping of taking antidepressant.

It is necessary to recognise as error too early full stopping of taking effexor. It would be well to decrease a dose of effexor in during of 4 weeks at 37.5 mg (every week to decrease dose at 37.5 mg).

Within the next 6 months sorbitol (13%, 50 ml) was taken over only for the night, and also incidentally in case of anxiety and depression appearance.

After carring out of 6-month's course of treatment by sorbitol the mental depressive status of the patient was estimated at 10-12 points on a scale of Hamilton. Depressive and anxiety syndromes practically were absent (0-1 point), along with vegetative disturbances. From 2003 to 2012 years patient Gevys does not need any more taking of antidepressants and sorbitol. Takes over for the night hypnotic brotisolam.

[tezza]

Hi gevys,

 

This is, indeed, very interesting. It may need to be moved to the "recovery " topic section. I'm very happy you were able to come off the medications. I don't think I can purchase sorbitol where I live. I haven't been able to find it here.

 

Did you have any gastrointestinal disturbances at all using this method?

 

Tezza

[Altostrata]

Thank you, gevys.

 

I've moved your account of your experiment to this topic, as it is an anedoctal account of an experiment on one person.

 

It's very well-written, thank you for sharing it with us.

 

As you know, the experiment lacks controls. Many people, perhaps most, can go off Effexor as you did over a month and not suffer withdrawal symptoms.

 

in the first week from 150 mg to 112.5 mg, in the second week from 112.5mg to 75 mg a day

It's very likely that, rather than the sorbitol, the tapering over a month was responsible for your success in withdrawal.

 

For me, the effectiveness of the sorbitol to ease withdrawal is a big question mark.

 

If we could go back to 30/06/2002 and divide gevys into 10 people, have 5 take your sorbitol program and taper and the other 5 do the same taper without sorbitol, we might be able to draw conclusions from this.

 

I am glad to hear of your full recovery. In my opinion, people should not be put a risk with antidepressant treatment for situational depression caused by events such as a divorce.

[gevys]

Hi gevys,

 

This is, indeed, very interesting. It may need to be moved to the "recovery " topic section. I'm very happy you were able to come off the medications. I don't think I can purchase sorbitol where I live. I haven't been able to find it here.

 

Did you have any gastrointestinal disturbances at all using this method?

 

Tezza

 

[gevys]

Hi Tezza ! Thank You for nice comments! 70% Sorbitol is a strong laxative. Pl .read copy of drug description . You may disolve 70% solution of sorbitol in 5 times (20ml 70% sorbitol +80ml dist. water). You will have 14% sorbitol -100 ml for oral administration as effexor corrector . Sometime 13-15%-100ml of sorbitol produced not strong abdominal disorder. In this case pl.decrease the amount of sorbitol to 15% - 50 ml

You Gevys

 

 

 

 

 

Sorbitol

 

 

 

Dosing (Adults):

Hyperosmotic laxative (as single dose, at infrequent intervals):

Children >12 years and Adults:

Oral: 30-150 mL (as 70% solution)

Rectal enema: 120 mL as 25% to 30% solution

 

Adjunct to sodium polystyrene sulfonate: 15 mL as 70% solution orally until diarrhea occurs (10-20 mL/2 hours) or 20-100 mL as an oral vehicle for the sodium polystyrene sulfonate resin

 

When administered with charcoal: Oral:

Children: 4.3 mL/kg of 35% sorbitol with 1 g/kg of activated charcoal

 

Adults: 4.3 mL/kg of 70% sorbitol with 1 g/kg of activated charcoal every 4 hours until first stool containing charcoal is passed

 

Supplied

Solution, oral: 70% (480 mL,

[gevys]

Dear admimstrator! Thank You for nice comments. You absolutely right :my experiment with sorbitol singl. I dont have any control . I agree with You we must have clinical trials with minimum 5 patients used effexor, 5 patients not used effexor and 5 control volunteers . Sorry but now I dont have possibility produced this clinical experiments . May be other patients used antidepressant in big doses will take the rick and conduct their personal experiment with sorbitol.. For me sorbitol was last chance come off effexor..

I have protocols of experiments in volunteers ( 5 in groups),in which 15% sorbitol orally eliminated morphine- produced hyperalgesia as result inhibition of antiopioid system , very important for development tolerance and dependence to morphine . I think that antiwithrawal and antihyperalgesic effects sorbitol in both cases have common mechanism.

 

Morphine in small dose 1 mg orally produced hyperalgesia in heat test in volunteers . Sorbitol 1,5% -100 ml orally 30 min before morphine not decreased morphine-induced hyperalgesia. Sorbitol 15%- 100 ml orally 30 min before morphine caused full elimination morphine-induced hyperalgesia in volunteers. We can suggest,that stimulation of gastric osmoreceptor of vagal afferent by hypertonic solution of sorbitol eliminate morphine-induced hyperalgesia

 

Your Gevys

[gevys]

May be put my protocols in subforum tapering ?

[Altostrata]

I'm sorry, gevys, I'm not seeing any evidence that elevates your experience with sorbitol above an anecdote. I also can't find any evidence that sorbitol has a calming effect on the vagus nerve.

 

We have a lot of foods containing sorbitol in the US, but I've never heard of any healthful qualities other than low calories.

[gevys]

Dear administrator! You right , method used sorbitol for come off efexor is only my personal experience not more . I know about old articles(60-70 years) where sorbitol stimulated vagus nerve. Last 50 years all forgot about this action of sorbitol . I will show this works.

 

Your Gevys

[gevys]

Convincingly demonstrated choleretic effect of polyols (sorbitol, mannitol and xylitol). It is suggested that oral sorbitol contracts the gallbladder by release of endogenous CCK (selective stimulator of vagal afferfent). Sorbitol can be applied as a 10-15% solution to 50-75 ml 3 times a day At the same dose prescribed and xylitol. Stimulation of vagal afferents by CCK causes antidepressive and anxiolitic effect and alsow eliminated withdrawal of drug abuse

 

Scand J Gastroenterol. 1986 Mar;21(2):235-8.

Cholecystokinin secretion after oral Emtobil, a gallbladder-contracting formula.

Gelin J, Rehfeld JF, Jansson R, Thornell E, Svanvik J.

J Auton Nerv Syst. 1986 Jul;16(3):159-70.

Osmosensitive vagal receptors in the small intestine of the cat.

Mei N, Garnier L.

Pathol Biol (Paris). 1960 Jun;8:1197-9.

[Cholagogous mechanism of action of sorbitol].

[Article in French]

SVATOS A, PLESSIER J, VOKAC V.

[gevys]

all secret in original use sorbitol as 15% solution 30 min before eating(preference local action in stomach afferent). Sorbitol in this scheme really used for treatment cholestasis or for cholecystography(sorbitol on of the best options).The mechanism of choleretic action of sorbitol is release CCK . Nobody not think about possibilty sedative and anxiolitic action of sorbitol as CCK realizer.

[gevys]

my method not dangerous . 15% sorbitol its only sweet water after eating ,bur before eating its effective drug!

[gevys]

VNS use for treatment depression resistent to antidepressants include discontinious of antidepressants . VNS ans CCK use for treatment opioid withdrawal syndrom and dependence.Hypertonic sol sorbitol cause cck realise and stimulation of vagus afferents . WE have very big chance that sorbitol lead to come of from effexor withdrawal is result chemical vagal stimulation by cck .

[Altostrata]

VNS use for treatment depression resistent to antidepressants include discontinious of antidepressants .

Please supply a citation for VNS assisting in discontinuation of antidepressants.

[gevys]

Thank You for very professional question! Give me any time ,please

Your Gevys

[gevys]

The US FDA recently approved vagus nerve stimulation as adjunctive therapy (after four prior treatment failures)in case depression resistant to antidepresant; VNS potentiate action of antidepressant and may to raplace them in some cases

[Altostrata]

Sorry, gevys, that is not relevant to antidepressant withdrawal syndrome, which is not "treatment-resistant depression," relapse, or any kind of psychiatric disorder.

[gevys]

Dear Administrator! You right. I dont find yet direct proves use VNS for treatment of antidepressant withdrawal . If I find something interesting will put here immediately.

Best regard

Your Gevys

[gevys]

I find that CCK-8 i.p. eliminated morphine, alcagol and benzodiazepine withdrawal . Role CCK in antidepressant withdrawal not investigated..

Cholecystokinin receptor agonists b___ Eur Neuropsychopharmacol_ 1999 - PubMed - NCBI.htm

journal.pone.0041860.pdf

[Altostrata]

How is sorbitol a cholecystokinin agonist?

 

From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholecystokinin

As a neuropeptide, CCK mediates satiety by acting on the CCK receptors distributed widely throughout the central nervous system. In humans, it has been suggested that CCK administration causes nausea and anxiety, and induces a satiating effect. CCK-4 is routinely used to induce anxiety in humans though certainly different forms of CCK are being shown to have highly variable effects.[4] The mechanism for this hunger suppression is thought to be a decrease in the rate of gastric emptying.[5]

 

CCK also has stimulatory effects on the vagus nerve, effects that can be inhibited by capsaicin.[6] The stimulatory effects of CCK oppose those of ghrelin, which has been shown to inhibit the vagus nerve.[citation needed] The CCK tetrapeptide fragment CCK-4 (Trp-Met-Asp-Phe-NH2) reliably causes anxiety when administered to humans, and is commonly used in scientific research to induce panic attacks for the purpose of testing new anxiolytic drugs.[7]

[gevys]

Convincingly demonstrated choleretic effect of polyols (sorbitol, mannitol and xylitol). It is suggested that oral sorbitol contracts the gallbladder by release of endogenous CCK . Sorbitol can be applied as a 10-15% solution to 50-75 ml 3 times a day At the same dose prescribed and xylitol.

Scand J Gastroenterol. 1986 Mar;21(2):235-8.

Cholecystokinin secretion after oral Emtobil(content 90% sorbitol), a gallbladder-contracting formula.

Gelin J, Rehfeld JF, Jansson R, Thornell E, Svanvik J.

J Auton Nerv Syst. 1986 Jul;16(3):159-70.

Osmosensitive vagal receptors in the small intestine of the cat.

Mei N, Garnier L.

Pathol Biol (Paris). 1960 Jun;8:1197-9.

[Cholagogous mechanism of action of sorbitol].

[Article in French]

SVATOS A, PLESSIER J, VOKAC V.

[Altostrata]

Above, there are statements suggesting increased CCK increases anxiety. This is not desirable in withdrawal syndrome.

[gevys]

CCK-4 is stimulants cck-B receptor. Activation of CCK-B receptors really produce anxiety and increase withdrawal . Endogenous CCK is cck-8 and CCK-32 ,which stimulate CCK-A receptor in vagal afferents and CNS . CCK-8 use for eliminate withdrawal opioid , benzodiazepine and alcogol(please look articles in attached files) and produce antianxiety and antidepressive effects.

Your Gevys

[Altostrata]

gevys, discussing the theoretical background will not demonstrate whether sorbitol is helpful in withdrawal syndrome.

 

It is readily available. People can try it on their own. They should be cautious as some of us are hypersensitive to artificial flavorings and some people are allergic to synthetic sweeteners.

[gevys]

Dear Administrator! Our theorethical discussion abour role CCK and vagus in withdrawal syndrom is very interesting for me and may to be useful for other participants . You right , I dont have really proves that sorbitol help in withdrawal syndrome by stimulatiom CCK receptors of vagal afferent .Its only my work hypothesis .

Yes ,sorbitol is very available. People can try it on their own. You right, they should be cautious , in first week necessary use not more 10-15 gr sorbitol (10-15% sol-100 ml) in day .In case of serious side effects(diarrea,abdominal discomfort and other)necessary immediately to interrupt use of sorbitol.

Your Gevys

[gevys]

Depressed patients may exhibit reduced heart rate variability (HRV), and antidepressants which block norepinephrine uptake ,include effexor may also lower HRV. The antidepressants use in major depression leads to hard reduced HRV that are associated with increased risk of mortality and increase of attemts of suicide .The reason of essentional decrease HRV in patients of depression treated by antidepressant is inhibition of vagal afferents and efferents activity . VNS is effective method of treatment resistant depression cause increase of heart variabilty and lead to decrease risk of mortality , panic attack and attemts of suicide . 15% sorbitol orally may be effective replace of VNS.(chemical vagal stimulants)

[gevys]

I full agree with You : Big pharma killed my company and almost killed me. Big Pharma whant to kill my idea and my method of chemical stimulation vagus. Therefore i put my method in internet forums and direct proposed it to patients and doctors ..

Your sserdyuk