☼ Phil's Lexapro withdrawal

[Phil]

*sigh*

 

Oh well, thanks for the info Alto.

 

I'll google those terms now.

[Punarbhava]

 

Perhaps the sense of depersonalization is from the lack of sleep?

 

Could be, I always feel way worse when I've had no sleep. And the heat is just soo frustrating.

 

Hey Punar, aww thanks for thinking of me, I really appreciate it I'd missed seeing your posts on the forum lately actually.

 

 

What s lovely thing to say. Yhank you Phil! but please know that I have enjoyed reading many of your posts. In fact, I thought, "wow, this guy is rock'in in self-empowerment strategies lately and trying so hard".

 

TBH, some of your posts felt inspiring to me and thus, allowed me to take a break from pounding my own mind (lol). I just sat back, breathed in your message and thought, wow, that felt great to have someone else pump me up. (lol). I truly appreciated that, so please know that the SA kingdom is graced with your presence.

 

In regard to my absence: I do have to take breaks away from posting since, I have my own ugly WD demons to battle (lol), not to mention many serious life challenges. Sometimes, I just need to be everything to myself since, like you and many others, we do not have live-in, ongoing support systems in place. Thus, we must navigate independently, which, as you know, is very challenging and can create it's own levels of trauma over and above WD trauma.

 

So, many times I'm out of commission...........trying to survive my own journey, although, it appears that my journey is now becoming easier (thank God).

I did suspect the heat might not have been helping, as I've had bad spells before but this latest one seems even worse than usual.

 

I had my friend over earlier, and because of the depersonalization I felt exhausted and wanted to be left alone. Found it hard to ask him to leave though.

I find it hard to communicate properly when feeling this way, as I tend to be too blunt (due to lack of emotion).

So I just said "what time are you going back tonight, just so I know".

It took him a while to leave and I just felt more and more annoyed as time went on. But I have to bite my tongue otherwise I will say something out of place.

 

 

Hot weather plays a number on people at the best of times. I do believe that it's harder on us due to over-sensitized CNS etc. Yes, I can relate re: biting the tongue scenario. It takes incredible self-control to regulate one's emotional reactions especially during WD.

 

As you know, it's so difficult navigating through this alone however, it's equally difficult being around people. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

 

I am happy to hear that you do have a trusted and reliable friend that can provide some form of assistance and/or companionship. This is so important, despite the frustrations that may exist.

 

Blah. Anyway thanks for the support guys

 

It's our pleasure Phil. You're an easy person to like.

 

BTW, I do know of a couple of people (on a small forum a few years back) who tapered directly from Lexapro and below 1 mg. One person in particular stated that she didn't believe she did herself any favors by tapering below 1 mg. It did not reduce her total length of post recovery time.

 

So, you can taper directly off the Lexapro. IMHO I believe it's too risky switching to another drug at this point in time. It's only an attempt to delay the inevitable don't you think?

 

The goal is to get off the drug, in a safe manner and in a timely fashion since, the remainder of the healing can only occur once one is completely off the drug. Stringing things out for too long is counter-productive.

 

However, with that said, one must feel comfortable as to the timing. It's important to get some support systems into place, if possible.

 

Sorry, I know I've mentioned this before and I promise I won't mention it again since, I don't wish to cause you any distress and/or anxiety about all this. I just want to see you free of this tapering nightmare (and it is a nightmare as you know, when one cannot stabilize after each dose reduction due to tolerance and/or kindling effect).

 

 

Sincere Wishes of Freedom and Healing to You!

 

Punar

 

[Altostrata]

Phil, perhaps you should look into the liquid Lexapro again, and check on whether it can be diluted with water so you can do a lower titration.

[Phil]

Hmm I'm not sure I want to Alto, I don't trust myself to not get the doses mixed up if I did dilute it. Do you think it would be beneficial to recovery to taper into tinier dosages?

I'm just aware that even afterwards, as Punar mentioned, it may not be enough to prevent further withdrawal. I dunno.

[Phil]

 

 

Perhaps the sense of depersonalization is from the lack of sleep?

 

Could be, I always feel way worse when I've had no sleep. And the heat is just soo frustrating.

 

Hey Punar, aww thanks for thinking of me, I really appreciate it I'd missed seeing your posts on the forum lately actually.

 

 

What s lovely thing to say. Yhank you Phil! but please know that I have enjoyed reading many of your posts. In fact, I thought, "wow, this guy is rock'in in self-empowerment strategies lately and trying so hard".

 

TBH, some of your posts felt inspiring to me and thus, allowed me to take a break from pounding my own mind (lol). I just sat back, breathed in your message and thought, wow, that felt great to have someone else pump me up. (lol). I truly appreciated that, so please know that the SA kingdom is graced with your presence.

 

In regard to my absence: I do have to take breaks away from posting since, I have my own ugly WD demons to battle (lol), not to mention many serious life challenges. Sometimes, I just need to be everything to myself since, like you and many others, we do not have live-in, ongoing support systems in place. Thus, we must navigate independently, which, as you know, is very challenging and can create it's own levels of trauma over and above WD trauma.

 

So, many times I'm out of commission...........trying to survive my own journey, although, it appears that my journey is now becoming easier (thank God).

I did suspect the heat might not have been helping, as I've had bad spells before but this latest one seems even worse than usual.

 

I had my friend over earlier, and because of the depersonalization I felt exhausted and wanted to be left alone. Found it hard to ask him to leave though.

I find it hard to communicate properly when feeling this way, as I tend to be too blunt (due to lack of emotion).

So I just said "what time are you going back tonight, just so I know".

It took him a while to leave and I just felt more and more annoyed as time went on. But I have to bite my tongue otherwise I will say something out of place.

 

 

Hot weather plays a number on people at the best of times. I do believe that it's harder on us due to over-sensitized CNS etc. Yes, I can relate re: biting the tongue scenario. It takes incredible self-control to regulate one's emotional reactions especially during WD.

 

As you know, it's so difficult navigating through this alone however, it's equally difficult being around people. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

 

I am happy to hear that you do have a trusted and reliable friend that can provide some form of assistance and/or companionship. This is so important, despite the frustrations that may exist.

 

Blah. Anyway thanks for the support guys

 

It's our pleasure Phil. You're an easy person to like.

 

BTW, I do know of a couple of people (on a small forum a few years back) who tapered directly from Lexapro and below 1 mg. One person in particular stated that she didn't believe she did herself any favors by tapering below 1 mg. It did not reduce her total length of post recovery time.

 

So, you can taper directly off the Lexapro. IMHO I believe it's too risky switching to another drug at this point in time. It's only an attempt to delay the inevitable don't you think?

 

The goal is to get off the drug, in a safe manner and in a timely fashion since, the remainder of the healing can only occur once one is completely off the drug. Stringing things out for too long is counter-productive.

 

However, with that said, one must feel comfortable as to the timing. It's important to get some support systems into place, if possible.

 

Sorry, I know I've mentioned this before and I promise I won't mention it again since, I don't wish to cause you any distress and/or anxiety about all this. I just want to see you free of this tapering nightmare (and it is a nightmare as you know, when one cannot stabilize after each dose reduction due to tolerance and/or kindling effect).

 

 

Sincere Wishes of Freedom and Healing to You!

 

Punar

 

Thanks Punar

In some ways I think I try too hard with empowerment stuff haha.

 

I understand, about needing to take breaks from posting. I'm the same. And that's soo true that we have to be our own supporters, not nice, but a sad reality. Glad to hear your journey is getting a bit easier anyway

 

Don't worry about mentioning going off Lexapro, I kind of agree, and to be honest I really want to be off by my 26th birthday (October). I've been doing this tapering since I was 24!

My biggest fear is the emotional numbness and how it affects relations with others, I've been in that dark place before and hate it. At the same time, I want to get on with healing.

[Altostrata]

Phil, it's impossible to tell what will happen if you take one road or the other road.

 

Unfortunately, we just can't compare our alternatives, we have to pick one or the other and deal with the consequences.

 

Pun may be correct, further tapering may not prevent withdrawal syndrome after. Or, tinier drops may be more tolerable.

 

I hate it that people like us are forced to make these decisions but there are no guideline other than slow tapering tends to reduce withdrawal.

 

As for diluting Lexapro liquid, once you figure out the dilution, you write it down and follow your recipe. I'll help you with the math if you wish.

[Punarbhava]

Thanks Punar

In some ways I think I try too hard with empowerment stuff haha.

 

 

lol.......I hear you. I'm the queen of self-empowerment strategies but it becomes so incredibly exhausting. Thing is ....we have to since, we do not have "live coaches" (live-in family support, a circle of various friends etc.) If I don't keep pounding positivity into me I'll give into the despair.

 

Anyway, I don't wish to now pound you (lol) with my philosophical ramblings (lol) so I'll move on. (lol)

 

I understand, about needing to take breaks from posting. I'm the same. And that's soo true that we have to be our own supporters, not nice, but a sad reality. Glad to hear your journey is getting a bit easier anyway

 

 

Thank you for the "gladness" message. It pains me to see someone who also has to live the same reality.

 

Don't worry about mentioning going off Lexapro, I kind of agree, and to be honest I really want to be off by my 26th birthday (October). I've been doing this tapering since I was 24!

 

Phil, you don't know how relieved I was to read this part of your message. TBH, I was ocd-ing a bit about what I wrote.

However, I remember, when I was in a few AD WD groups, seeing so many others, like myself, being petrified but the group owner kept mentioning, "at some point you have to take the plunge".

 

I knew this was true and I would have been less afraid IF I wasn't alone to deal with the fall-out. IF there was live-in support the fear factor would have been far lower.

 

The thing is, as Alto mentioned, there is no way to predict who will experience WD effects, much less how long their WD will last.

 

ONe thing is for certain, (I believe Alto mentioned this) a slow taper is the only way to minimize the degree of suffering. However, it does not guarantee that there will be no post taper WD effects.

 

I think post taper effects are certainly going to be milder than C/T effects.

 

 

My biggest fear is the emotional numbness and how it affects relations with others, I've been in that dark place before and hate it. At the same time, I want to get on with healing.

 

It's pretty hard to be excited about being drug free when one anticipates further suffering upon cessation. It really messes with one's mind doesn't it?

 

However, to know that I was finally drug free meant everything to me and I was willing to go through whatever just to KNOW that I was no longer held hostage by this toxic poison going into my body each day (keeping me sick) since, I never could stabilize between dose reductions.

 

Also, it freed me from ever having to deal with an arrogant, abusive, ignorant shrinks for the rest of my life (lol).

 

 

Maybe you can spend some time working on your biggest fear? Fear is a given (part of the human experience) and thus, is not the problem, it's our reaction to the fear that is the problem.

 

Anyway, no need to respond to this post Phil. I don't wish to add any stressors your way. Rather, I'm just throwing out a few thoughts and suggestions. I respect whatever decision you make for yourself. You have to do what is right for YOU and not what others think is right for you.

 

 

Punar

[Phil]

I hate it that people like us are forced to make these decisions but there are no guideline other than slow tapering tends to reduce withdrawal.

Agreed Alto, it's tough to make such decisions especially when already suffering and not knowing the best route to take.

Thankyou for your kind offer to help with the math, however I don't think I want to bother with the liquid route.

 

Hey Punar, about working on my fear, it's weird because it's all based around something legitimate. I've been talking to someone from a dating site who I like, and, well, in my WD state I'm worried I will be no good. It makes me sad really. In this state I am not much use to anyone.

But I guess, there's no options really, being on meds isnt great, coming off isnt, but at least theres that hope of recovery and growth.

 

On a side note: my "alerting system" has been going haywire today, went to the supermarket with my friend and it was a horrible experience.

[Altostrata]

Don't forget to wear dark glasses when you go out!

[Phil]

Ah yes, I get to look cool and calm my CNS at the same time

[Phil]

Just had to vent this: feeling so extremely depressed today!!

 

Why must I make such hard decisions for my future

[Phil]

I've decided to see my doc next week and get the Lexapro liquid and work on diltuting it, can i take up your offer to help with the math, Alto?

 

I need some stability to get some things in place to help me through this - therapy, accupuncture, and so on. Recently I've been neglecting everything and becoming housebound which isnt help the withdrawal at all.

[Altostrata]

Yes, I will help with the math, and I hope there are some eagle eyes here who will double-check it!

[Punarbhava]

Just had to vent this: feeling so extremely depressed today!!

 

Why must I make such hard decisions for my future

 

 

So sorry Phil! I understand how painful the depression can get but please try to remember that this suffering (all of it) is bringing you towards freedom some day.

 

I know that we should never have been captured and held hostage to begin with (damn it) nor in this manner. We didn't deserve this however, thank God there is healing and freedom at the end of all this pain.

 

You're going to make it through this and you're young enough Phil. You have a whole long life ahead of you! You will make it through! A glorious Re-Birth will occur!

 

 

Just wanted to pop in for a second to give you a virtual ((((HUG))))) I know it may not do much to ease your pain (especially when the hug is from an old lady) lol......but consider it a grandma hug........that's full of compassionate understanding.

 

Hope you can find a few moments of beauty sometime during your day.

 

 

Punar

[Phil]

Thankyou Alto, I think just by having liquid I can measure out and know its the same every day will help a great deal.

 

Punar, awwww thankyou! Hugs gladly accepted, a virtual hug may not be the same but it means a lot to me.

[Punarbhava]

Thankyou Alto, I think just by having liquid I can measure out and know its the same every day will help a great deal.

 

Punar, awwww thankyou! Hugs gladly accepted, a virtual hug may not be the same but it means a lot to me.

 

 

You're most welcome Phil and I'm glad you accepted it!

 

 

Phil, do you not live in England or thereabouts? I just started a thread in the symptoms forum about an AD and Benzo Support in England and I immediately thought of you as well as another member.

 

Apparently this place provides telephone support, buddy system, empowerment programs to assist you to transition back into life once you have recovered etc.

 

I SO HOPE that this will be something that you will be able to easily access, since, as you know, it's so difficult going through this journey alone.

 

Forgive me if I'm mistaken as to your location but it's too overwhelming ATM for me to go through all your threads to find out this info.

 

Anyway.......here is the SA thread:

 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1108-ad-benzo-help-line-and-email-buddy-support/

 

 

Punar

[Phil]

Thankyou Punar Yes I am in England (north). I will look into that now, it sounds very helpful.

 

Going to the doctors today for liquid Lexapro...I hope it goes well

[Punarbhava]

Thankyou Punar Yes I am in England (north). I will look into that now, it sounds very helpful.

 

Going to the doctors today for liquid Lexapro...I hope it goes well

 

 

 

You're most welcome Phil!

 

 

I sincerely wish you success with the liquid Phil. Let us know how things go.

 

 

Note to Alto or Moderators: the most recent link:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/615-uk-australia-new-zealand-support-services/page__view__findpost__p__9765

 

 

that I posted in Phil's and Lor's thread does not work. Error message comes forth: "We could not determine which topic you wish to view".

 

 

Punar

[Altostrata]

I fixed the link: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/615-uk-australia-new-zealand-support-services/page__view__findpost__p__9765

 

It broke because I moved the post.

[Phil]

Losing the ability to comprehend what people are saying - is this a withdrawal symptom? Does it sound familiar to anyone?

 

I'm struggling with this today. I could not even process a joke properly. Someone asked me for a cigarette while I was out walking, and I did not even "hear" what he said until a few seconds later.

I've also been very preoccupied with worries, so that could be the cause too.

[Punarbhava]

Losing the ability to comprehend what people are saying - is this a withdrawal symptom? Does it sound familiar to anyone?

 

Very familiar! It is a WD related symptom for many people.

 

I'm struggling with this today. I could not even process a joke properly. Someone asked me for a cigarette while I was out walking, and I did not even "hear" what he said until a few seconds later.

I've also been very preoccupied with worries, so that could be the cause too.

 

 

I labelled this symptom as "delayed comprehension" (lol). Although such happens to everyone at the best of times, it was at a chronic and intense level for me. Many times it would take me hours and even days to obtain the "aha" moment and "get" what I should have beem easily understood. I'd become confused over the simplest of things and/or completely misinterpret something that was so familiar.

 

I would also hear a thought expressed by another, and like you, didn't mentally process it. Our F&F response is high-jacked, to various degrees, in WD and thus, our ability to focus is very much compromised since, our brain, CNS and body are primed to "scan and run from danger if need be". In other words, our brain is not open to receiving and processing too much information since it is preoccupied and locked into survival mode.

 

Worry of any kind, even at the best of times, will provoke people to zone out and thus, hinder their ability to interact with others and/or to focus on other matters. This of course becomes more applified for those of us in WD. The degree to which this occurs is dependent upon the degree and/or stage of WD.

 

Phil, TBH, I don't know if I've made much sense here but I have tried. (LOL)

 

I better get off-line ASAP since, I feel overloaded to the max right now and the circular thought pattern is starting to set in (lol)....but just wanted you to know that many people experience frequent and similar things during WD.

 

 

 

Punar

 

[Phil]

Thankyou Punar!

What you said makes perfect sense and I can relate to it all. Especially the part about taking hours or days to get that "aha" moment!

I have a sarcastic friend and I tend to take a lot of what he says literally, and always "get" what he was saying too late, much to his amusement.

 

Anyway, thankyou again Punar for your explanation and relating your experiences. It's so relieving to know I'm not alone in this.

 

Also I know what you mean about the circular thought patterns.

 

Please do not worry about responding to this, by the way. I know that it can become a worry in itself during w/d.

[Altostrata]

Phil, I see from your sig you're on .66mg now. Did you get the liquid?

[Phil]

Hi Alto, no, I haven't got it yet. I've been trying to get myself to go into town to sort it but I'm struggling to do that. The 0.66 is just a rough estimate of where I'm at currently.

 

The doctor gave me a prescription for 10mg/ml "incase" they had any available, but I need to go back and change it for the 20mg/ml as the chemist near me only has that one.

[Punarbhava]

Thankyou Punar!

What you said makes perfect sense and I can relate to it all. Especially the part about taking hours or days to get that "aha" moment!

I have a sarcastic friend and I tend to take a lot of what he says literally, and always "get" what he was saying too late, much to his amusement.

 

Anyway, thankyou again Punar for your explanation and relating your experiences. It's so relieving to know I'm not alone in this.

 

Also I know what you mean about the circular thought patterns.

 

Please do not worry about responding to this, by the way. I know that it can become a worry in itself during w/d.

 

 

My pleasure Phil! BTW, thank you for being so understanding and thoughtful re: your last sentence.

 

Lastly, Phil, I'm so pleased to see that you are almost down to the 1/2 mg mark. You don't have much further to go and soon you will be off this poison once and for all.

 

Always wishing you the best .......beautiful healing and recovery is in your future!

 

 

Punar

[Phil]

Thanks Pun

 

Alto, I'm going to pick up the liquid (finally) tomorrow morning. Do you know how I can go about diluting it? It'll be the 20mg/ml liquid.

[Altostrata]

Make sure you get the 10mL and 1mL oral syringes. Ask for two of each.

 

You probably will dilute the Lexapro concentrate with water. Verify this with the druggist and ask if you need distilled water. I've used tap water here (and I think Rhi does, too).

 

You'll need a clean wide-mouth bottle to put the mixture in. An empty pill bottle is fine.

 

You'll use an 10mL oral syringe to measure out the water, one 1mL oral syringe to measure the concentrate, and one 1mL oral syringes to measure out your own daily dose.

 

When you get the bottle, post here and we'll discuss the dilution.

[Phil]

Hi Alto, I have got the Lexapro liquid now.

I forgot to ask for the syringes when I was at the pharmacy as I was quite anxious, but I've ordered some off ebay and hopefully will get those tomorrow.

There was a 1ml syringe with the Lexapro bottle though, with a rubber attachment so it can be placed on it.

 

I've got a plastic wide-mouth bottle that had juice in (I hope it's the right type), and some de-ionised water (just incase).

[Altostrata]

Having the larger syringes will make measuring the water easier.

 

Now, is concentration of the liquid 20mg Lexapro in 1mg of suspension?

 

And you want to take .66mg?

[Phil]

Hi Alto, sorry I've been late in getting back to this.

 

The bottle says: "1ml (20 drops) contains 20mg escitalopram as oxalate"

1 drop contains 1mg escitalopram"

 

I have all the syringes I need ready.

 

I want to take 0.65mg.

[Phil]

Hi Alto, sorry I've been late in getting back to this.

 

The bottle says: "1ml (20 drops) contains 20mg escitalopram as oxalate"

1 drop contains 1mg escitalopram"

 

I have all the syringes I need ready now.

 

I want to take 0.65mg.

[Phil]

Will it not be possible to dilute it, Alto?

[Altostrata]

Oh, Phil, I'm so sorry. I got distracted from answering your last post.

 

Here's how you do it:

 

- You have 20mg in 1mL. You want to dilute it so you get 1mg in 1mL.

 

- Shake the Lexapro solution gently (or else you'll get bubbles). With a clean, dry syringe, measure 1mg and put it in your smaller container.

 

- With a dry 10mL syringe, measure 19mL of water and put it in the container.

 

- Shake gently. You now have 20mg Lexapro mixed into 20mg liquid.

 

- With the small 1mL syringe, measure out .65mg to take a dose of .65mg Lexapro.

 

Does that make sense?

[Phil]

Thankyou Alto, that does make sense. I will try this tonight and report back on how it goes.

[Rhiannon]

Just a lab tech trick, if you want to stir up the contents of a bottle without getting bubbles, roll it back and forth between your palms then invert it gently a few times.

[Altostrata]

Hey, Rhi, how long do you think this mixture would be good?

 

Also, Phil, I'd keep it in the refrigerator and protect it from light.