Basildev - Tapering off SSRIs

[basildev]

Thanks for listening Peggy.

 

I just found a thread on the forum about hot flushes and apparently they're a very common wd symptom.

 

That makes me feel a little better. I don't want to become 'allergic' to this medication. Then I'll REALLY be up the creek.

 

Yes it is awful not knowing what to do.

 

I hope you're feeling a little better today x

[dalsaan]

Hi BD

 

I'm a bit sleep deprived myself at the moment so forgive me if I've already raised this or someone else has but have you tried glycine for your sleep?

 

The reason I ask is because it drops your core temp which I read you have been having probs with (so do i). This messes with your sleep

 

Glycine has helped me but too much upsets my stomache. So I am trying to find a dose that helps my sleep but doesn't giver cramps etc

 

Perhaps something to think about

 

D

[basildev]

Hey Dalsaan,

 

thanks for the tip.

 

Yeah I tried Glycine but it kept me awake. I've decided to go it alone where supplements are concerned.

 

Just like you, it's hit and miss with supplements for me. One day they work, next day they make no difference.

 

The temperature/hot flush problem has only come about in the last few days. I reckon it's come about because I'm not sleeping well. Last night I felt like I was burning up. But just tried to sit with the feeling and eventually, like all of them, it went away.

 

Who know's when it'll be back.

 

Sending you healing vibes Dalsaan, I hope you get some sleep soon - we should all start an insomnia club so when we're awake in the middle of the night we can keep each other company!

[basildev]

Decrease to 19mg helped slightly.

 

What you have all said about overshooting the updose is making sense. I started sleeping much worse at about day 10 of the updose to 20mg.

 

It has deterieorated since that time.

 

Want to go down to 18mg.

 

Is it too soon?

[tezza]

That would probably best be answered by Alto but I think she recommends at least four or five days on a dose.

[Jemima]

You've been at 19 mg. for only three days, so if I were you I'd hold on for at least a week. The more dosage changes you go through the more problems you'll have.

 

I see you were close to the end of tapering and that's usually when things get especially bumpy. Withdrawal itself is very bumpy and unpredictable, so don't freak out and think there's something wrong with you and/or you'll never get better. Believe me, most of us have been there and thought that - often over and over and over.

[Altostrata]

Did you go down to 19mg on March 13? You might give it a few days to make sure decrease is the right direction, then go down to 18mg.

[basildev]

Thank you guys,

 

Yes Alto I went down to 19 mg on 13th.

 

Will give it a few more days and then try for 18.

 

Thanks for your help everyone

 

mwah!!

 

xxx

[basildev]

Hi everyone,

 

Day #5 on 19 mg and the hot flushes are gone.

 

Sleep is no better. A new problem is arising:

 

I've been taking afternoon naps (only half an hour, just helps me get through the rest of the day). Now I can't even fall asleep because I'm getting these awful hypnic jerks.

 

Right now I'm trying to work out whether I'm overstimulated and need to go down more or just in garden variety withdrawal and need to hold my dose till whenever.

 

The hypnic jerks only came on in the last 2 days. So far only in the afternoon and not at night.

 

Currently not taking any supplements.

 

Any suggestions?

[peggy]

i don't know Basil, but it kind of sounds like a bit of withdrawal from going down to 19 after being on 20mg for a month or so?

 

I haven't had a hypnic jerk for a while - i used to not mind them because it meant that i was dropping off and would usually go off soon after. I also seem to recall that i only got them when i was really tired.

 

How much sleep are you getting?

[basildev]

Hi Peggy,

 

Actually I was only on 20mg for 2 weeks before dropping to 19mg.

 

I'm averaging about 6.5 hours.

 

I know that sounds like quite a bit and I don't mean to trivialise the suffering that others (like you) are going through, as I know you guys survive on much less sleep than that and would consider 6.5 hours bliss - but before all this I could easily sleep 9-10 hours per night and never felt fully refreshed unless I got 10 hours.

 

Now I'd kill for 8 hours! I've always needed a lot of sleep - at least 9 hours and after I went on meds, 10 hours.

 

The jerks wouldn't be so bad if there were just one or two. But they're quite bad.

 

Don't know whether to hold at 19 or keep dropping.

[peggy]

i would probably hold..

 

but who would listen to me LOL!

[basildev]

I would - you have a lot more experience in this game than I do:)

[basildev]

Feeling really desperate.

 

Hot flushes returned, can't sleep.

 

I just took half a valium, made no difference.

 

I have no idea what to do

[Altostrata]

You decreased to 19mg on March 12. Now that decrease has registered as steady-state in your bloodstream, so the emergence of the symptom pattern again makes sense.

 

Perhaps another decrease of 1mg?

[basildev]

Alto,

 

I was thinking the opposite!

 

I got 3 hours sleep last night and that was with the aid of a pill. To make matters worse I can't even nap during the day because of these awful body jerks.

 

My anxiety was through the roof last night, a constant hot flush and I honestly don't think I can keep going like this.

 

The drop has made things much worse, not better.

 

I was thinking of going back up to 20mg and staying put there indefinitely.

 

Your advice and thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I feel I have just gone from bad to worse to even worse.

 

I am at breaking point and now I can't stop crying

[peggy]

(((((hugs))))))

sorry you are feeling like this Basil - you won't break, it only feels like it.

 

Have you tried lactium? I bought the ethical nutrients one - it's called Stress and Anxiety relief. It says on the bottle to take on daily for stress or 2 twice daily for anxiety. I don't know if it helps me to sleep, but i really thing it does bring down the anxiety.

 

last night i took lactium at 5pm for anxiety and melatonin 3mg at 8pm before i went to bed. I was anxious about not sleeping, but fell asleep ok - only to wake up an hour later - then i tossed and turned and ruminated etc, so i took another melatonin and lactium. Slept until 5am.

 

This morning i don't have the horrible anxiety and depression of the last few days- much lower level, but still there.

[Altostrata]

I'm sorry, basil. Didn't the flushing go away when you decreased last time? And the first few days were better, with symptoms ramping up in the last 2 days?

 

To me, this indicates the decrease has been "loading." At first, it was a relief to your system, now it's reached steady-state, your system has accommodated, and it's registering as too much.

 

Figuring out which way to go, increase or decrease, is hard....all you can do is give it a try and see if it works.

[basildev]

Hey Alto,

 

yes the flushing disappeared the day after I dropped to 19 but came back with a vengeance last night along with anxiety, body jerks, crying and desperate insomnia.

 

I'm just so scared I'm never going to sleep again and the anxiety makes it even worse.

 

My heart tells me to go back up to 20mg and just stay put.

 

I have to choose a dose and stay there. I think my CNS is so screwed up that even the slight decrease has been too much. I fear that if I decrease again I'll fall in a heap.

 

I'm almost there now.

[basildev]

Hey Peggy,

 

thanks for the hug:)

 

Yes I do have lactium.

 

I took it in the early hours once or twice. Only one capsule.

 

It's hard to say whether it worked.

[Altostrata]

It's up to you, of course. You're in a tough spot, I feel for you.

[peggy]

Hey Peggy,

 

thanks for the hug:)

 

Yes I do have lactium.

 

I took it in the early hours once or twice. Only one capsule.

 

It's hard to say whether it worked.

 

try taking a lactium this morning - yesterday i think it really helped bring down my anxiety.

[basildev]

Thanks Alto.

 

Like you say all I can do is try. I've chosen to stick to 20mg.

 

Peggy, my anxiety comes more at night when I'm lying in bed thinking 'I'm never going to be normal again....' With the anxiety comes the hot flushes.

 

I'll try lactium again.

 

hugs xx

[laineyk]

I have to apologize for never responding to your post, we are all hurting SOOOOOO badly and we need to hear from others who totally understand, I am with you, I feel what you are feeling and it SUCKS!!!!

 

Please know that I will be following along from here on out and will try to encourage you the best an INSANE person can, because thats how I feel. I think my brain has been fried and its like a burnt piece of bacon.

 

All I know is that I know nothing at all and this has been the worst year of my life. I am crawling towards recoveryt with Gods help.

 

Blessings, Lainey

[basildev]

Hey Lainey,

 

thanks so much for chiming in!

 

And no need to apologise. There are so many posts here, it's hard to keep up with it all isn't it?

 

You me are in a very similar position at the moment - both waiting for stabilization. It's sheer hell isn't it?

 

I take comfort in what Nikki wrote on your thread - that being on the meds for so long can alter our reaction to stabilization and it's not always the same. For example, in the past as SOON as I reinstated/updosed I felt the effects within 3 days. Not so this time.

 

It's been over 3 weeks and I'm still struggling.

 

Thanks for caring x

[basildev]

Hello everyone,

 

Well it's been one month and one day since I updosed to 20 mg. I thought I would report on my progress (if you could call it that)

 

On 2/27 I updosed from 11mg to 20mg and stayed on that dose until 3/12.

 

Insomnia was the only withdrawal symptom. Bear in mind, when I talk about 'insomnia' I'm talking in relative terms to the amount of sleep I am used to getting when stabilized (10 hours per night - a lot, I know! - I use this as a benchmark). I know compared to many other people this would be considered relatively mild. But for me, not so much.

 

During that time I feel my sleeping got progressively worse in that initially I could fall asleep okay but woke at 4AM unable to return to sleep. As the days progressed I began having trouble falling and staying asleep. Overall I'd rate the duration and quality of sleep to be about 75% during this time.

 

on 3/13 I started getting hot flushes. These were intermittent during the day. So I dropped down to 19mg.

 

I stayed on 19mg for a total of 5 days, hot flushes got worse and finally worst sleep ever (4 hours) on the final day.

 

On 3/18 I returned to 20 mg and have been on this dose ever since.

 

Today, I feel safe to say that the hot flushes are a thing of the past. Have not had one in a week.

 

Sleeping improved to an average of 77% with one 8 hour 'window' where I fell asleep, stayed asleep and went back to sleep when I woke. AND the night before last I got 9 hours of uninterrupted sleep (meaning when I woke to go to the toilet I was able to fall back asleep).

 

Yesterday (after 9 hours sleep) I felt like I had won the lottery. Today, not so much. Last night I had trouble falling asleep and over all about 5 hours sleep. GRRRRR!!!!

 

So my question is: am I healing?

 

I have no idea. I think I delayed my healing by dropping to 19mg and by messing around with supplements (I take none now, as I feel I am hypersensitive).

 

I want to believe things will get better - but it's been a whole month. Insomnia got worse then a little better and now it seems I hit the skids again. Still, only insomnia, nothing else.

[strawberry17]

From where I'm sitting reading your post it really does look like an improvement, we kind of expect improvement to come in a straight line going forward consistently but it doesn't seem to work like that, good days and not so good days/nights, but the hot flushes have gone and the sleep IS getting better overall.

[flower]

basil stay put.It has taken me several weeks, and alot of incouragement,to stay put.It has now been 3 months. Everything you are experiencing is familiar to me. I'm not sure if I will ever feel normal until this over. Celexa is the devils drug.

[Altostrata]

Even after someone updoses, and it works, they may get waves and windows for a while.

[basildev]

Thank you Strawberry and Flower, for your kinds words.

 

Alto, my sleep seemed to be getting better but the last 2 nights has been terrible.

 

Is this common? By that I mean, is it common to feel a week of improving sleep and then go backwards?

 

I feel like I'm getting worse again.

[Altostrata]

That's a wave, b. It's always discouraging, but remember that you'll get windows, too.

[basildev]

ta xx

[Narcissus]

That's a wave, b. It's always discouraging, but remember that you'll get windows, too.

 

I had a wave that lasted nearly a month recently. I felt sure that I wasn't recovering, that I might not ever recover. About two weeks ago the wave broke and, while I'm still not fully recovered, the improvement is huge. It gives me a strange feeling now to look back at how hopeless things felt a few weeks ago. Needless to say, the window and wave pattern is extremely strange and very tricky psychologically. Don't get discouraged!

[basildev]

Thanks pgd.

 

I'll try not to:)

 

I see you've been suffering for quite a while since updosing to 75mg in October last year.

 

I guess different people stabilize in different time frames. Only after reading some people's personal stories have I realised that it can take days, weeks or months.

[laineyk]

will we stabilise????? I am better then I was but am not able to work still and still very anxious most of the day or just malaise feeling. the only time I have peace is when I sleep thats with .5 mg clonazepam and 200mgs magnesium. This is week 7 and I am really starting to worry that this isnt going to work.

 

Dr will be angry that I didnt increase like she told me to when I see her next week....UGH

[basildev]

Hey Lainey,

 

I believe we will. Like I said to you in your thread, your diet change is not to be ignored in this process.

 

As for your doctor, nobody has the right to make you updose if you don't want to. So hold your head high and don't feel obligated to explain yourself. It's your life and it's your body.

 

xx