Kerrip - Introduction

[Jemima]

It's up to you, of course, but dropping the 10 mg. Celexa isn't going to make you feel better any time soon. It's just going to destabilize your nervous system even more. Getting stabilized takes some time, and I don't mean just a day or two.

 

What happens when a person first takes an antidepressant for more than a few weeks is that the AD makes structural changes in the brain, growing some new neurons and destroying others. That's the reason that a slow taper is advisable - it gives the brain time to adjust to having less and less chemical support and re-grow the structure that was in place before taking antidepressants. In your case, your brain had never normalized from your first withdrawal from Celexa so taking differing doses of Celexa from one day to the next and varying doses of Trazadone isn't giving your brain a chance to heal.

 

Merely removing the drug from your body doesn't solve the problem because the changes in the brain remain. The long, painful process of the brain getting back to normal is what we call Prolonged Withdrawal Syndrome.

 

Dropping the Celexa tonight is not going to get you back to "where you were". There's an old saying that 'you can't step into the same river twice', which is true of life in general and getting off antidepressants as well.

 

I think we've given you the best advice possible. Now it's up to you to choose your course of action.

[peggy]

kerrie, if you really want to get off the Celexa, then do it in increments rather than stopping all at once - Jemima has explained it beautifully

[dalsaan]

I think you'll find that was Jemima's beautiful explanation but I will add that there is no quick fix here. It's important that you take this on board otherwise you will make decisions from a very unhelpful headspace.

[kerrip]

Thank you as always and I don't want to Frustrate the group. You are my only friends who understand and are trying to help and I know I am being difficult.

 

Now that I have reinstated the trazodone I am slowly going to taper off the celexa. I think it makes the most sense so I can stop the kindling as soon as possible.

[kerrip]

Update on my condition.

 

After reducing my celexa from 10 mg to 5 mg for a few days I decided to take the plunge and stop citalopram one month after i started it. It has been a couple of days now and I *think* that the kindling reaction is beginning to subside a little bit, but of course I am getting the early protracted withdrawal symptoms, which I totally expected and have extended experience with.

 

I hope you all understand my decision, I had to stop the kindling reaction. That was the worst I have ever felt in my entire life by far, and I couldn't take it anymore. I will take my protracted withdrawal symptoms any day of the week, since I have been dealing with it for a year now. I understand I am back at square one and am essentially starting completely over, if not in a worse state, but I HAD TO STOP the kindling.

 

I am still on the trazodone and now have been taking Xanax along with kratom to help with the kindling symptoms, but I do think that the kindling is beginning to subside a little bit, as I was using them to a lesser extent than when the kindling started. I only plan on staying on these drugs and herbs for a short period, and am hoping that I can be back to just experiencing protracted WDs soon. I will not be changing my trazodone for a long time at this point.

 

Please pray for me or send me positive energy, as I am still having to maintain a stressful engineering position and actually am traveling for work as we speak. I hope that I see some improvement before mid March, since that is when my second child is due (a daughter).

 

Any positive comments would be very much appreciated, and I hope all of you are getting better everyday.

 

Forever grateful for everyone here,

 

K

[Jemima]

I certainly wish you well and hope that your current withdrawal is manageable. Please be careful with the Xanax. It's quite addictive and is even more difficult to taper off than antidepressants.

 

Please keep in touch and let us know how you're doing.

[kerrip]

I promise I will be careful. I have been taking .5 mg 2x a day while I am dealing with the kindling reaction but I will be reducing this hopefully very soon. But I need it while I am in the throes of my kindling reaction.

[kerrip]

Does anyone think I would be a candidate for low does lamictal to help with the kindling and withdrawal? Please chime in. I am looking for a way to just calm my mind's overreaction to the reinstatement of celexa. I have been off it for 4 days, and am just hoping the kindling reaction can calm a little bit so I can continue my life.

 

thanks

[kerrip]

I wanted to share an observation with the group. I took some methadone during the initial phases of the kindling reaction (from my wife who took a little bit during the very painful days of lyme disease that she is suffering with) and I noticed that it almost completely resolved my symptoms.

 

Now, I am not suggesting that one start taking opiate painkillers to help with withdrawal, but I did read that methadone is a NMDA glutamate antagonist in addition to being an opiate, and that is cluing me into how glutamate might be the the real culprit for me.

 

This is why I was asking about the low dose lamictal and whether that might make sense. Or is there any other medication or supplement that can help curb my glutamate overload? I do take magnesium, but haven't had any relief from it at this point.

 

I'm racking my brain here to see if there is anything that can help, do I make any sense here or not?

 

thanks

[Nikki]

Please stay away from Lamictal. You are not bi-polar. It is for a bi-polar condition. There are a number of posts on this site from people who took Lamictal for WD and it was a disaster.

 

From what you have shared, ssri's are not good for you. You are taking Trazadone and Xanax.

They probably take the edge off WD if you use them and don't jockey around with the trazadone doses.

 

Just try and stay put for awhile with Trazadone and Xanax. You might want to think about 5mgs. Celexa to help stabilize.

 

Sending positive energy your way.....don't mess with Methadone, please

[Altostrata]

Kerrip, I was treated with low-dose Lamictal by a doctor who knew what he was doing. At most, I took 5.4mg.

 

The problem is finding a doctor who understands how to use Lamictal to reduce withdrawal symptoms. As very few even recognize withdrawal symptoms, this is like finding a needle in a haystack.

 

As for the methadone, I have never heard of it being used to treat withdrawal syndrome. You might correspond with David Healy about your experience.

 

Methadone also incurs dependency.

[kerrip]

no the methadone was a one time deal only for sure. I have been using kratom with success, but that has it's addiction problems as well.

 

thanks for your feedback on the lamictal. My doctor probably does not know understand its function for this purpose, but could I potentially attempt to try this with some assistance from the group? Alto, did you find that it helped with the overexicitability of your nervous system? That is my biggest problem, not depression.

 

As for reinstating celexa at 5mg, I have been thinking about it but since the reinstatement was what caused this problem I just wanted to get it out of my system and deal with the WD, which I have extensive experience with. But to be honest I don't what to think or do at this point. I just need the kindling to abate a little bit and then I can be back on track.

[Altostrata]

It's up to you. 10mg Celexa might have been too activating but 5mg might have compensated for your withdrawal symptoms.

[kerrip]

If I was to reinstate, is there any range of time period that I should expect to see improvement? How can I gauge whether it is working or not, or making things worse? I know that will depend on my reaction and how I feel (and this will be obvious) but is there any wisdom to this?

 

Has this worked for others? I'm skeptical that a lower dose will do the trick since I had a bad reaction, but you know better and wouldn't have recommended it otherwise.

 

Thank you for paying attention to my specific case, I know you must be very busy on this board.

[Altostrata]

You might try 2mg (use a liquid) and see how you react to it. If you get worse, you can drop it right away.

[kerrip]

I was only on 5 mgs for two days, during my very quick taper, that was certainly not enough time for my body to adapt to the lower dose, so I probably didn't give that option a fair shake.

 

I don't know if this matters or not, but a year ago when I was tapering down and was at 5mgs I do remember being quite stable, although I wasn't in the middle of a kindling reaction.

 

Can I even call what I am going through a "kindling reaction" or is it possible that 20 mgs was just too stimulating? Or is that what kindling really is?

[Altostrata]

Yes, too stimulating = kindling

[kerrip]

Ok, I think I am going to try 5mg for a while and see what happens. I thought that a kindling reaction means that the drug is now completely toxic to the system, but it looks like at lower doses it may actually help stabilize my system?

 

One thing I will say was that when I was on the celexa I did notice that many of my non-anxiety symptom were abated. Tinnutus, headaches, weird sensations etc were greatly improved. Should I take that as maybe a sign that it was working for me but the dose was too high due to my anxiety?

 

i'm trying to be a detective about this and really think about the whole experience when I reinstated!

[Altostrata]

It could be your system was so sensitized 10mg was experienced as a much higher dosage, but some of your withdrawal symptoms were alleviated.

 

I suggest you start with 2mg and go up gradually if you feel it can help.

[kerrip]

Thanks, I will do that, however I only have 20mg pills and I am staying at a hotel for work so I don't have a good way to get 2mgs exactly. I will do the best I can though.

[Altostrata]

You might be able to phone your doctor and get a prescription for liquid Celexa sent to a local pharmacy.

 

Or, make your own liquid http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2693-how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules/

[kerrip]

Well I took 5 mg last night and I do feel better today I'm actually having a day that feels somewhat normal so I don't know what to think at this point but I think I'm going to have to maintain what you all think.

[dalsaan]

Great to hear you are feeling better. Alto recommended 2mg see If you could achieve a similar effect on a lower dose

 

If it was me I would probably still try the 2mg. This might just be enough and it's a lower amount to come off. If you are going to try this do it soon. Don't take 5mg for a while and then give 2 a go

 

Having said that I could understand if you just wanted to maintain the 5 and stabalise on that.

 

Either way, when you settle in a dose give yourself a month or so to settle your nervous system down and then plan a very gentle taper

 

Enjoy the day

 

Dalsaan

[kerrip]

I am traveling for work and therefore was unable to do a suspension solution by myself or find some way to get a 2 mg dose. I am going home tonight so I'll see what I can do about that.

 

That being said I really really really hope that I am beginning to stabilize somewhat. I really do feel quite good today it's really amazing. Yesterday I was a complete mess. No matter whether I settle on two or 5 mg I am going to stabilize and stay at this dose for a really long time to give myself the opportunity to heal.

 

Oh I hope the stabilization continues.

[dalsaan]

Well there's a lot of people on this forum who will have their fingers crossed for you

 

I'm sending out good vibes to the universe ( and we shouldn't underestimate the power of good vibes!)

 

Dalsaan

[kerrip]

Thanks for the positive vibes you all are the only people I can talk to as I can't burden my sick and pregnant wife with this right now.

 

We just got confirmation that she has lyme disease and two babesia infections, which is a parasite. So life is very very difficult right now.

[Altostrata]

Kerrip, 5mg might be just the right dose for you. I would try it for a few days and see. If it starts to feel too activating, make the solution and drop down to 2mg.

[kerrip]

Will do, thanks

[kerrip]

It is now my second day at 5 mg and I do feel a little panicky this afternoon. I'm going to cut the pills in half again and move down to 2.5 mg.

 

Does it make sense that the citalopram is starting to act on my body so quickly? I mean I felt good yesterday after taking the one 5 mg but then today I'm starting to be a little anxious after only two days.

 

My symptoms seem weird to me I wake up in the morning usually pretty groggy throughout the early morning and then I start getting some anxiety into the afternoon. Then I feel a little better at night.

[Altostrata]

It makes sense. Over about 4 days, the level of the drug rises in your bloodstream to a steady state. The second day elevated this level.

[kerrip]

You still think i might stabilize at 2.5? How long should I try this before i just abandon it altogether?

[Jemima]

There are no hard and fast answers to either of your questions. Try to take it one day at a time. One of your most important tools in getting through this is patience.

[Altostrata]

Since you felt better with 5mg, but then it got too activating, 2.5mg might work. There are no guarantees.

[kerrip]

I totally understand that there are no guarantees, but i bery much appreciate the guidance. I forgot about it but I was taking a kratom extract yesterday so that may have eased my symptoms a lot, and this means that I can't categorically explain my positive day due to my reinstatemt at 5 mg. I know, I shouldn't have made multiple changes to my regimine, but I had to fly home nonstop so I needed to be comfortable and in a good place mentally.

 

I just took 2.5 mgs and will give it a few days. If it doesn't help than I might continue back on the CT, but at least I will tapered a little bit in the process

[Altostrata]

All I know about kratom is what I just read on Wikipedia. Interesting that it's a calcium channel blocker.

[kerrip]

Kratom does have an alkaloid that is a 5ht2a antagonist, so perhaps that is doing something as well?

 

It is habit forming, which I have some previous experience with, so I don't want to lead anyone down the wrong path here, but the extract does help immensely and I really needed relief. I just need to start tapering down from it because I don't want to get caught with another problem on my hands.