Kerrip - Introduction

[kerrip]

Is calcium channel blocking something you think can alleviate with overstimulation or withdrawal syndrome? It would be nice to know what exactly the kratom extract is doing to help so much.

 

I am taking a break from it for now but I do have some just in case of intense intense anxiety.

[Altostrata]

Calcium channel blockers relax blood vessels, lower heart rate, and may relieve anxiety.

 

Magnesium is nature's calcium channel blocker.

[kerrip]

Hi All,

 

I am doing a little better these days. I am still at 2.5 mgs but I seem to be in a funk where one day I feel ok and the next day I have anxiety. I wonder if it is related to the difficulty of getting a correct dosage from a 20 mg pill.

 

I am also greatly tapering down the xanax, I only took 0.25 mg last night for sleep and tonight I will try without it. I was only using the Xanax heavily for a week or so.

 

I am going to see my doctor tomorrow and I want to make sure I am prepared, I plan on requesting the following: liquid celexa and even liquid trazodone so I am begin tapering that as well at some point down the road.

 

Is there anything else I should bring up with my doctor (like any tests or anything)? Do I dare consider a different AD to see if I can stabilize on that? I expect that is not a great idea. When I really sit down and thing about it, I am about feeling the same as I did before I reinstated, or maybe not quite there yet but I hope soon.

 

thanks

[kerrip]

I found a pharmacy that can further dilute the celexa. It comes in 2mg/ml strength but I think a more diluted solution is necessary for my eventual taper from 2.5 mgs.

 

What strength do you recommend I have my doctor write a prescription for? It seems like 0.1 or 0.2 mg/ml would be a good idea.

[kerrip]

The last couple of days I have been noticing all my usual WD symptoms coming back. Heart palps, afternoon migraines, brain fog.

 

Is it possible that my body might be ok with just a small increase to get rid of the WD symptoms? My body may be recovering from the shock of 20mgs, but perhaps a slight increase might help with the symptoms, or should I just stay here and hope for stabilization?

 

I'm really upset with myself for going back on, what was I thinking? Or at least what was I thinking when I started at a normal 20 mg does? I should have started back on 2mg just to give it a try.

[Nikki]

Kerrip chipping away at pills can like you said cause ups and downs because it isn't exact.

 

So requesting liquid is a good thing. Why not stay at a certain dose for a bit and then do the reduction.

 

I think reducing on med at a time, might be easier. The Trazadone and Celexa could bring on insomnia. I hope not, but it can.

 

Nikki

[Altostrata]

Kerri, it's too soon to say reinstatement at 2.5mg has failed.

 

You need to get oral syringes from the pharmacy for the liquid, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/235-tapering-techniques/

 

Also see tips for tapering Celexa http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2023-tips-for-tapering-off-celexa-citalopram/

 

If it's a compounding pharmacy, it will have a range of sizes. The smallest are .5mL and 1mL. Depending on the brand, either measures to .01mL or .02mL.

 

You titrate liquid Celexa by measuring the dosage with the oral syringe.

 

In the US, Celexa liquid comes in 2 mg/mL dilution. To take 2.5mg, you would take 1.25mL.

 

You may wish to use a 3mL oral syringe at first.

 

If you feel you need to increase the dosage slightly, you can do so fairly precisely.

 

You or the pharmacy can further dilute the liquid if you need to.

[kerrip]

I will get a syringe In a couple of sizes.

 

WDs have definitely hit hard this afternoon, which is four days after reducing from 5 to 2.5 mg. I wonder if I should increase, I might try that tomorrow.

[Altostrata]

Try not to bounce around in dosage. This causes more problems. It can take a while to stabilize.

[flower]

I can testify to that fact..

[kerrip]

Hi flower, I have been paying attention to your story and I hope you get well very soon. Seems like you and I are in a bit of a similar situation.

 

I just got out of my new doctors office (I like her a lot she seems to understand my situation) and she is thinking that maybe I should consider bumping up to 3.75 mg. Her thinking was that 5 mg seem to be a little too stimulating and 2.5 is giving WD symptoms.

 

However if I do make this change I will do it with the understanding that I need to stay at this dose for a long time, 4-6 weeks.

[Altostrata]

You've only been taking 2.5mg since Jan 6. It can take some time for your system to settle.

[kerrip]

I may stay at 2.5 mg alto. Turns out I have a really bad cold with fever so that could be why I started feeling terrible these past two day an it is not Wd. Hard to tell!!

[dalsaan]

Sorry to hear you have other health probs on top of withdrawal. If I was you I would stay on 2.5 for a couple of weeks to see what happens.

 

Every change you make impacts your nervous system and therefore you ate unable to tell whether your symptoms are a reaction to the change or ongoing withdrawal.

 

You need to pick a strategy and stick to it long enough to get an accurate reading of where you are at

 

Dalsaan

[kerrip]

Okay I hear you there. I just keep on thinking that there's got to be a sweet spot here where I won't get withdrawal symptoms but also won't get the kindling over stimulation reaction.

[dalsaan]

I think there will be a sweet spot but you need to find it and to do that you need accurate readings of where you are. 2.5 may well be your sweet spot and will show itself after your system has calmed down from latest changes

 

Its frustrating I know

[kerrip]

Got it. Well I got my liquid citalopram today plus a couple of good syringes so I should be able to dial in 2.5 mg with much more accuracy.

 

I don't know if anyone out there can answer this but the oral syringes have a small extruded tip, but it doesn't look like the gradations on the syringe account for the extra liquid in the tip. maybe I'm being a little nitpicky here but I want to make sure I get the exact dose right.

[Altostrata]

Discard any liquid remaining in the tip, it will throw your measurements off (as strawberry and I both found to our dismay!).

 

I agree, there may be a sweet spot, but you need to give any dosage some time to get to steady state in your bloodstream -- this takes 3-4 days -- then you need to give your system time to get used to it.

 

So far, you haven't had the kindling reaction to this level, so it may be okay. Given you're so sensitive, if I were you I'd try to get by with the minimum needed to soften withdrawal symptoms.

[kerrip]

Ok, I hear you, and I did take 2.5 mg liquid last night, but my WD symptoms seem to be getting stronger. Early-morning wakings and anxiety, heart palpitations hot flashes etc.

 

I'll listen to you and stay at 2.5 mg, but after another week or so if the WDs don't improve perhaps it makes sense to try a small increase?

[Altostrata]

Are you sleeping okay?

 

If yes, you might go up by .5mg and see if that helps.

[kerrip]

Not sleeping great. Waking up at 3-4 and laying in bed feeling hot then cold than hot then cold. And just what I seem to calm myself down to get ready to go to sleep I get a big rush of adrenaline that pops me awake.

 

Maybe I am wrong but to me that is WDs.

 

Oddly enough when I was in a higher dose of Celexa I noticed it took me a while to go to sleep at night but I would sleep much more soundly into the morning.

 

Would you recommend a slight uptick in dosage to see if that helps? Based on your last sentence it seems that may not be a good recommendation but I just want to doublecheck that you typed correctly that's all :-). Thank you as always!

[peggy]

Hi kerri - i have found that it can take a whole 28 days to get completely stable after an updose when i am having withdrawal symptoms.. patience is your best friend when trying to stablise - unfortunately, he is a slippery friend that is hard to hold on to!!

[Altostrata]

Not sleeping great. Waking up at 3-4 and laying in bed feeling hot then cold than hot then cold. And just what I seem to calm myself down to get ready to go to sleep I get a big rush of adrenaline that pops me awake.

Yes, that's a withdrawal symptom. Has this been the pattern since you started 2.5mg?

[kerrip]

Yeah you can say that. They started around 3-4 days after dropping from 5 to 2.5. I only was at 5 mg for a couple of days, and felt really good the first day, almost normal. Maybe I didnt give it enough time?

 

Given what you are saying Peggy, it might have made sense for me to stay at 5mg until I stabilized.

[Altostrata]

It's safer to carefully titrate up rather than taking a shot at a dosage that might be too high for you.

 

When you took 5mg, after a few days, after it increased in your bloodstream, it was too activating.

 

With the liquid, there's no reason to skip around. You can control the dosage very precisely so as not to overshoot your tolerance.

 

Give each dosage level at least 4 days to reach steady state.

[kerrip]

Got it. Having the liquid allows me to have much more control of the dosage. I and definitely happy that I have it!

I am going to try 3.75mg and see how I react. It's right smack dab in the middle. I did seem to recover pretty quickly when I realized the 5 mg was too high so maybe I was juuuust a little bit above that sweet spot.

[Altostrata]

That would be a big jump, 150% of your present dosage. Think in terms of .5mg changes.

 

It's a tiny amount, but you have proven to be very sensitive. If you overshoot your tolerance, you might have a very difficult time finding it again (see strawberry's recent posts).

 

Better to creep up, and I do mean creep, than make bold moves.

[kerrip]

Lol... I had a feeling you were going to say that. Ok, 3.0 mgs it is. You are right I do need to take it slow. thanks for keeping an eye out for me.

[peggy]

go to 3mg and then try and stay for a little while - whilst it was 28days before i completely stabilised, there were indications that i was going in the right direction. I think it is best not to change more than every 4 days or so, you don't want to overshoot

[kerrip]

Well believe it or not I slept much better last night and had no early wakings, or at least I was able to get back to sleep pretty quickly. I also have had no hot flashes and no heart palpitations this morning. Perhaps it's the placebo effect but I'm happy that I tried 3.0 mg.

[dalsaan]

Hi kerrie

 

It might be placebo but I have often found that I knew really quickly and had a fairly immediate response to positive adjustments. Sometimes it didn't last but I always thought it was best to think positive until proven otherwise!

 

Got my fingers and toes crossed for you

 

Dalsaan

[kerrip]

Thanks dalsaan. I did wake up this morning at 4 AM and was unable to go back to sleep but I didn't have any real bad heart palpitations or anything so I just need to take it one day at a time. I am definitely trying not to get overconfident!

 

One thing that I'm definitely focusing on is keeping a very very close eye on my symptoms and how they relate to any medication or supplement that I take.

[kerrip]

I did notice a little anxiety this afternoon, but it is minor. My body just might have to get used to 3.0 mg.

 

Oddly enough this anxiety only happened in the afternoon which is weird for me I don't know what that means. I take both my Celexa and trazodone at night.

[flower]

Kerrip does celexa make you sleepy? I'm jealous of the folks that said it relaxed them ..I never had that. When you tapered your Trazadone for that few months can you tell me a little of how that went? Hope I don't bother you too much...I know sometimes we don't feel good.

[kerrip]

The Celexa used to make me sleepy but I am not sure if it does anymore I think it does. My anxiety usually starts up in the late morning or the afternoon and I take my pill at night.

 

I don't remember any of these problems when I started tapering off of the trazodone except for maybe tinnitus. However I may not have been listening to my body very closely.

[Altostrata]

Did this symptom pattern start when you reinstated trazodone?