Iggy131313 validation is imminent

[Iggy131313]

So today is day 4 of my accidental 15% and not 5% drop....followng another adverse reaction to an accidental updose

 

i awaoke this morning with terrible fear and puesdo parkinsons, im not in control of my body at all....this is uaually a very bad sign..when this starts happening things tend to get worse, so im even more scared now

 

I dont even think this drop will hit me roperly until tomorrow or perhaps later today, last time I had the severe reaction to dropping it happened on the morning of the 5th day.but i was at that time taking my dose late in the afternoon...now i take it early in the morning so today could quite likely be the day I feel the reduction

 

I havent woken with akathisia like I did yesterday, its more fear (not the akathisiia syle terror) severe f'ed up head and brain, feel very very sick and the parkinsons shaking, i cant pick anything up its so severe

 

yesterday was so awful with the aathisia, so so bad, unbeabla e 10/10 levels

 

i guess the only thing I can do now is to go with it all and see what happens, 

[Iggy131313]

Today has been even wrose than yesterday, so as I suspected its impossible to know if this is from the drop...from the progession of the damage caused by the updose as im in the worst part of my cycle or what...

 

Im pretty terrified of what tomorrow might bring, and today, and now, and forveer

[NoMeaning25]

How are you feeling today?

[Iggy131313]

well its hard to tell...

 

my dad woke me up this morning wanting to have a ''talk'' about my treatment of him, and all the stress of that has calmed my aka

 

stress ALWAYS stops my akathisia...I suspect this has to do with a combination of things

 

1) cortisol inturupts norepinephrine in the bran and allows dopamine to build

 

2) stress increases dopamine

 

3) stress can lower serotonin

 

so its very hard to tell, but if I am not too too bad later on through the day (as I get worse at 12, even worse at 2, then even worse at 3 and then to unbearable hell at 4-5) interestingly adrenaline  starts to peak at 4 and serotonin at 5pm, so this all makes sense and I know many many others who are at their worst around these times of day in ssri withdrawal...(people in benzo withdrawal can feel a little better around 5pm)

 

Im in a very severe wave and not ok by any standards, but im out of bed, and I didnt think I would be today....maybe the drop isnt gong to effect me so badly

 

In my opinion, and it is only my opinion and not the thinking on this site....many peoples ''withdrawal syndrome'' is quite simply an over sensitsation of the serotonin receptors...thats my problem for sure...and most people have of course kindled (gone on and off meds several times)

 

each time the receptors rebound (at 5 momths-10 months) they rebound in an over sensitised state - same as dopamne receptors do causing tardive dyskinesia (which in most cases is permenant..current research states only 5% of people have remission)

 

it all depends on how sensitised our serotonin receptors are to how severe the symptoms are and if its possible for them to desensitise over time

 

most peoples ''withdrawal'' starts many months after stopping ssris, this is the time the receptors upregulate and why ''withdrawal'' is delayed....

 

others may have desensitised receptors, I know of a few people who improve on things lke fish oil, which increases serotonin and their main symptoms seem to be depression etc...it could be that those people have desensitised receptors.....but all I really care about is my own state....sad but true

 

of course we know that overactivation of serotonin receptors leads to things like akathisia as that blocks dopamine in the VTA and stratum

 

but what I dont understand about all this is why I can feel immediate effects from lowering the microdose I am on, I should feel immediatly better only to feel worse months later when the receptors rebound...perhaps the change in levels on those damaged receptors effects things so much...but im also looking at the SERT transporter being damaged tself as a possible reason, after all ssris dont directly block receptors like other meds do, but block the sert transporter..this indeed leads to receptor downregulation of 5HT1 5HT2 and quite possibly 5HTc receptors....so the outcome is the same as antipsychotic administration but on a different set of receptors.....but we also have the blockage of sert transporters to consider...and what an over sensitisation of that could lead to...

 

God help us all

[mm100]

I am sorry t hear of your akathisia, i suffer this also

[Ramsnic]

Try to stay calm. Do nothing and let your brain catch up. Too many changes will make it harder to cope.

I'm detoxing on Effexor and down to 1.5. Struggling and want so bad to just stop it today but I've learnt the hard way and i know I will not survive the negative feelings, brain zaps and panic. I'm hoping you can slow things down.

Your anxiety may blind you and your panic stop you seeing the improvements. Yesterday has gone. Today is new. Take your dose. Don't reduce for 2 weeks anything. Then a very slight reduction. Wait 2 weeks and then see how you feel. Don't rush. Let your brain recover at each step. If you rush you will fail. You can do this.

I'm learning by reading other peoples fights.

I'm learning that your brain has to recover slowly between reductions. Rush = Failure. It's taken 6 years to realise this. This time I will succeed. You will too. Thinking of you xxx

[Meimeiquest]

Don't forget you found a bit of a window before this. You will find it again.

[Djones1984]

Iggy I feel your pain and I am so sorry you are still suffering. I have been making my own cit solution for over a year now and it will last 24hrs. I would get in pill form and make your own. I have held at 5mg for a year now starting to cut now.

[Djones1984]

Iggy how are you doing today? I really feel for you i am too suffering after almost 2 years after stopping and starting Celexa again I have been to the depths of hell but it does get better and I do have some Windows now. Akathesia is the worst and people just don't understand I wish I could give u a hug. I would honestly try taking half the dose you were on and stay there for at least a couple days.

[Iggy131313]

just to update

 

its been 3 weeks since I dropped 15% from 0.48 to 0.42...and to be honest Im no different

 

usually Im at my best in this week n my cycle, the week before my period, when serotonin is lower...but nope... have a very VERY minor cold which may be adding to it, but i think the dose is still a higher one than I was on before...but I dot know and I cant reduce it too fast or else ll have massive receptor rebound in a highly sensitised state and be even worse....it really is a rock and a hard place

 

I will make another tiny drop n 2 weeks, giving it 5 or maybe 6 weeks from the last one....and I will drop 0.02 gong from 0.42 to 0.40....I doubt very much that will give me any relief, but what can I do?

 

Im back to 24/7 aathisia, fainting, hearing voices, terror, shaking, face twitching, limbs flailing out for no reason, confusion, vomiting, burning and vibrating, cant do the simplest tasks, like walk from one room to another, all I can do is rock and cry and wail....great

 

and i will be cpoming on my period in a few days which will double the agony at least, all the way through my period and for the week after is the worst time for me, and as my cycle is only 25 days, that doesnt gve me any breathing space...

 

God help us all

[Iggy131313]

its awful, I see poor Muddles posting in exactly the words and feeling I was talking about 2 and a half years ago, the desperation, looking for something to make it stop...and here I am 2 and a half years later, still excatly the same, no healing, no improvemnt, I have slightly better times sometimes, but then I still can do nothing, be nothing, its just surviving, always,  never felt ok not for 2 and a half years

 

my son is nearly 6, he was 3 when this happened to me

 

I have lost my job, my husband has left me, he took my son...my parents have had to move from spain to live wth me so I can have access to my son....but i see the hopeless look on their faces when I am just writhing in agony, begging for them to kill me...

 

how is one supposed to have hope after 2 and a half years when things havent ever gotten any better

[Muddles]

Breaks my heart.

[Iggy131313]

and mine muddles, and mine...i cant even move...motor activity increases fring rate and synthisis of serotonin and im so sensitive that even standing up and walkng 2 paces revs up the akathisia to unbearable levels, the full moon does the same, estrogen rising does the same...fish oil does the same....all these things raise serotonin...

 

when I start to eatm the second I start to eat the akathsia gets worse, once again as soon as you start eating serotonin starts to rise to stop the hunger feelings, giving you the sensation of being full...serotonin is my enemy and everything in the world increases serotonin, and dong anything to lower it will only make a feedback loop in the brain causing upregulation of serotonin receptors and making things the same....

 

only time can heal the receptors, and they will never heal completely, I trust the most a man who is 10 years off and was perha as bad as me...he is still houseridden alot and far far from healed but his akathisia is better, his life is still ruined, he is still extremely disabled and tortured, but hes improved...the only way through this is doing nothing and allowing the serotonin receptors to desensitise over a LONG LONG LONG LONG tme, years and years, 10, 15, 20 years and more....

 

But today that doesnt help me...today im tortured as always, just like every day for the past 750 or 800 days, more i think.....im not a  mother, im not anything, all I am is purest suffering, hopelessness and dspare,,,no hyperbole, my life has been utterly destroyed and i could cope with no life, I could cope with anything if the sensations would stop...I would lose my arms, my legs, my sight...any deal, I would make it, but theres no deal to make, theres no drug that can be taken, no help to be had from anywhere

[Muddles]

Who can suffer this for 1o years or more...I bloody can't.

[Muddles]

Who is this guy?

[Iggy131313]

I ot goin to tell you who he is as you will contact him and he doesnt like it...I know over 10 people more than 10 years into this and stll sufferng, this is not something that just stops...people who have a much milder experinece, like poeple who can work during wthdrawal, or people who can function, like go to the shops, or have some kind of life...there s more hope for them...

 

everyone improves, but true healing, maybe it mght happen, maybe in 20 yeras or more, I dont know, but most people I know who were as severe as me are still very sick over 10 years off...

 

thats the thruth, thats the postion I am in...will it improve? yes I think it will, but not in the next few years..not while my son is young, maybe in another 10 years I might have parts of a life back....but so what? what does it matter when the suffering is unbearable..

 

I wish  had never had my son so I didnt have to stay alive..but i do

[Muddles]

I wouldn't want to contact him. I think having to hear people still in suffering after all that time would likely send anyone over the edge. Just because he is still that bad iu doesn't mean you will be. I have my doubts big time as I am disabled and housebound most of the time - I cannot think further than today at the moment...neve mind 1o years down the line. That would just kill me.

[Muddles]

I've also said the same - I would lose my sight or suffer anything but this...no-one gets that and think I'm a crazy women. I am a crazy women.

 

I don't think it will be long before my husband does one...I've told him too. I love him too much to have to suffer me everyday - he deserves a life and so do my kids. My son has developed a serious anxiety disorder and it probably won't be long before social services get involved. It's a crime - we were bloody good mothers.

[EMT1]

What are these peoples stories?? Have they completely abstained from all medications this entire 10 years?? I have never found anyone that far out sill suffering

[Iggy131313]

yes, totally drug free, no mistakes, they are out there, those of us who are massvly kindled will suffer for many many years

[Muddles]

Did you try rife for akathisia?

[Iggy131313]

no...too scared, I know a guy who said it would work, said it cured his in 5 days

[Altostrata]

Iggy, please consider starting your own site where you can present all your discouraging news. I am serious about this.

[Iggy131313]

I apologise, I just need to vent sometimes, my fears and everything I have learned over the past 2 and a half years..Im trying to say that everyone improves, everyone....I only knnow one person n a severe state after many years, but he continues to take a drug called SOMA which I think could be effecting him...everyone else, including the person I spoke to about still being poorly after 10 years is WAY better than he was....

 

but im having an adverse reaction to this new bottle, its blowing my brains out, I am so severe and my thoughts are pulled time and time to the dark side.... could cope wth that,  could cope wth anything but this constant suffering and akathsia and aggitatiion

 

everyone improves, and most certainly not everyone, only maybe 1% or less of people will ever be as severe as me, and thats becasue im kindled so many times over and over and over....

 

Una at one of the helplines here in the UK...she was incredably ill for 6 years, hers was oure benzo though, and she has been recovered for years and says everyone will heal..she also says people shouldnt be considered protracted until after 5 years

 

she thinks that even those who are 10 years off and still sick will heal, its just gong to take longer....

[Iggy131313]

ill go away again for a while..I never mean to upset anyone, Im just desperate for answers, for it to be ok...but I dont thin t will be...

 

when I drop I get far far worse (or did last year and then before that when I missed ONE dose of 0.72 I had the MOST severe time out of all of t, and thats saying something constant seizures, wettng myself, didnt know who I was, self harming to try and stop the sensations, screamng)

 

and yet taking it s making me wrose also....so what can I do? what the hell can I do? Im scared of everything, each move I make makes thngs worse

[alex]

Iggy, please consider starting your own site where you can present all your discouraging news. I am serious about this.

 

PLEASE!!!

[btdt]

Did you try rife for akathisia?

I googled rife no reasonable answer on google so I will ask you what is it? 

[NoMeaning25]

She is just looking for reassurance and support. Where is she supposed to go? As far as i am aware, this is her Journal. No one is forced to read it.

 

 

 

Iggy, please consider starting your own site where you can present all your discouraging news. I am serious about this.

 

PLEASE!!!

 

[NoMeaning25]

And btw, those people she was speaking about, they were regular posters on here. They are really 10 years off and still ill. Is this site becoming like the other one now, too? Where are we ALLOWED to discuss this? 

 

Looks like there is nowhere to go anymore Iggy. No wonder a lot of people just dissapear and you never hear from them anymore.

Sounds like a good idea to me

[bells]

 

She is just looking for reassurance and support. Where is she supposed to go? As far as i am aware, this is her Journal. No one is forced to read it. 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree.

 

What the hell is this...

[mammaP]

This is a place where people who are in distress from withdrawal, tapering or preparing to taper

can come and find support and hope. We try and encourage people to look on the positive rather

than dwell on the negative. 

 

Withdrawal is distressing for everyone, and all of us here are going through it in various stages. 

Alto has been so very ill with her withdrawal and decided that she would use her horrific experience

to help others and reveal the truth about psychiatric drugs. She has done an amazing job and continues

on her mission. GiaK, AKA Monica from Beyond meds has also been so very very ill and also chose to

use her experience to help others.  They are just 2 who have been severely disabled, I could name

many more but the list would be too extensive. 

 

People coming here are looking for hope, and until you are dead there is hope, but there are a minority here

who choose not to believe that there is hope.  If I were a new member who has just started feeling the

nightmare of withdrawal, what would be the effect of reading the posts from the people who refuse to believe

that they can get better?   Everyone makes progress, all of those who post as severely disabled have made

some progress. As moderators we try and encourage everyone, and point out the progress that has been made

but some do not want to hear it.  

 

Waves can be tortuous, and when in  a wave it feels like it will never ever end, but it does.  

If you can eat, drink, get dressed and type coherently then you are better than those who can't. 

We want to give people hope and positivity, and if you can't find that here then maybe this is not the place for you.

 Read back through your thread, you have been better, and will be again.

Seek and you will find whatever it is you are looking for,  whether it is positive or negative and we want to focus

on positive otherwise what is the point of this self help forum.

[btdt]

I am torn by this as I was one of the ones who was stuck a long time and could not see the forest for the trees.  I know this is not a Democratic situation but I vote Iggy stays in hope that she will not only post but read of others who are finding a way beyond the fear of not doing anything different. Getting lost in a spiral is horrid and I am not here to tell the owners and mods how to run this site but as Oliva said there needs to be a place for such people when they are in the dumps completely stuck in the withdrawal negativity cycle.  

I think I was banned at this point actually and was completely on my own... it was very distressing to lose contact with the only people who had a clue as to what was going on with me inside my mind and my body.  

 

The fact that other may come to this sort of thread and get stuck to when they are in sort of the same sort of place is a chance moderators need to consider.  I get that now I did not then.  BUT should healing come to Iggy they will also see how no matter how bad it can get how big the fear it can be over come. It is a two sided coin.

 

No matter who you are or where you post there is something called owning your own experience that is hard to do when your in it as the experience itself can completely overwhelm all aspects of self.  I think if anything we need more attention put towards this in hopes of working a plan to get folks over the feeling of being trapped in a cycle and stuck.

 

I wish I was the smart person who could come up with the plan I am not sure what it would look like.  I do think this... analogy fits.

 

what is the value of a baby... is a child of greater value then a teenager and adult a senior...

 

Who says what has value and what does not have value... if we value the new person more than the ones stuck in the withdrawal process not healing are we closing our eyes to a part of the populations like the rest of the population has done to all of us?  

 

What are we not learning by turning people away when they are in pain?  

 

Again not my site but these are my thoughts on the matter.  I do not know what SA is to be that is not my job it belong to Alto and the mods

 

Just some food for thought.

 

How about a section for those who have been doing this a long time and are not healing?  Would that serve any sensible purpose?  
Thoughts? 

[Altostrata]

To clarify, btdt was never banned from this site.

 

I get pms from people who are distressed by reading Iggy's relentless emphasis on hopelessness, although she herself has seen changes for the better. For a very long time, on this and other sites, she has frequently posted discouraging reports of what she says she has read that are colored by her own profoundly pessimistic self-sabotaging philosophy.

 

If Iggy wishes to hurt herself in this way, she is of course free to do so.

 

Recently, she made errors in her own dosing that have caused adverse effects. This does not demonstrate the inevitability and permanence of suffering for everyone.

 

Members of this site are not required to read everyone's posts. For all those who care to skip Iggy's posts, please use the "Manage Ignore Prefs" in your Settings area.

 

If, on the other hand, you wish to continue to support Iggy in this topic, please do. To follow this topic and get all of Iggy's updates, click on the "Follow This Topic" button in the upper right of the page.

[btdt]

I am here now Iggy if I get in a bad place and need to go I will.  I think I am well enough now to do that.  If I think I have something to offer that may help I will contribute otherwise I am just reading till I see some space for me to add something. 

Just so you know.  I wish you peace. 

[NoMeaning25]

Thanks for the clarification Alto

 

 

To clarify, btdt was never banned from this site.

 

I get pms from people who are distressed by reading Iggy's relentless emphasis on hopelessness, although she herself has seen changes for the better. For a very long time, on this and other sites, she has frequently posted discouraging reports of what she says she has read that are colored by her own profoundly pessimistic self-sabotaging philosophy.

 

If Iggy wishes to hurt herself in this way, she is of course free to do so.

 

Recently, she made errors in her own dosing that have caused adverse effects. This does not demonstrate the inevitability and permanence of suffering for everyone.

 

Members of this site are not required to read everyone's posts. For all those who care to skip Iggy's posts, please use the "Manage Ignore Prefs" in your Settings area.

 

If, on the other hand, you wish to continue to support Iggy in this topic, please do. To follow this topic and get all of Iggy's updates, click on the "Follow This Topic" button in the upper right of the page.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

 

she has frequently posted discouraging reports of what she says she has read

 

For me (and maybe others as well) this may be the biggest issue with Iggy's postings. She does not seem to be amenable to suggestions nor other interpretations of what may go on in recovery in the here and now: she seems to be stuck in some far away future where recovery never happens only because she has read of others who are still struggling and she assumes she will be like those others. For those of us who have been here awhile it gets draining to read her gloominess. Ignore her you say? Sometimes it is hard. What if today there is a glimmer of hope or some poster happens to say something that short circuits her incessant ruminations here (who know if she does so in real life?) I myself have learned not to try to help because she does not engage in any back and forth conversation or give feedback to others. Dump and run, stream of consciousness stuff that for some reason is never spellchecked. (And don't jump on me for this, please. I believe spelling correctly is a courtesy to others here.)

 

Alto keeps a certain tone to this website and she can and will because it is her site. I think she has shown great forbearance toward Iggy but Iggy is not reciprocating. Although Iggy's journal is hers there are others who come to the site every day, new people in the worst struggle of their lives and how these people must feel when they read her pessimistic rantings.

 

The thing (as I see it) is that Iggy does not want our help, she just wants to get what is inside her head out to somewhere. Maybe her personal circle is tired of hearing it (or she doesn't have one). Her postings elsewhere (the ones that came up in search) don't have the ruminative quality that she has so far gotten away with here. The goal is support while you are healing and there is certainly a phase we go through where it seems as though things will never change and we feel doomed. I struggle with that daily. But dumping constantly is not the answer nor is abandoning the site. Visit other threads, Iggy, and try to offer a comforting word once in a while. See what happens.

 

Muddles (sorry sweetie if you don't like me mentioning you here) has been where Iggy continues to be (I am only going on the quality of postings here) but she has reached out to others and has recently had a great deal of healing. Whether it was due to her activities on the site or her own personal strength is not the point, it is the way she is interacting with others here that is of importance to us. We give, you give back and something magical happens sometimes when the quality of the interaction is supportive.

 

It is not up to Alto or us or any other support board to save Iggy. Only she can do that for herself. And Iggy is free to start her own site (as others have done) if she does not like what she is getting here, which is apparently unlimited license to post along the lines of  "Look at so and so. They have been off meds for (x) years and they haven't recovered and I won't either" over and over again in a public forum which is geared towards help and healing.

 

Handling this is a knotty problem and I am glad I am not the site admin. I am only interested in the way this is playing out because I have been suffering from the same negative rumination myself. There is something to be learned from all of this but my brain is not sufficiently healed to make complete sense of it. Btdt went thru it (I believe she said somewhere it got she banned at pp for partly this reason) and she doesn't do it anymore. It is just a part of healing we all go thru?

 

Ok, Iggy, here's your thread back. Good luck to you. Wish we could help but we don't think we can help by echoing your pessimism.