Iggy131313 validation is imminent

[Iggy131313]

let me address those things btdt...if I may

 

the bf...no, I would have put that WAAAAY down my list of prioroites, the truth is this...it made me feel better, it TOOK AWAY the symptoms, so I persued it....and yes, it has improved my condition, being with this man, (and im talking brain chemistry here, not distraction or anything else) helps me be a better mother to my son, as it stops alot of the symptoms, endorphins? dopamine? nt sure, but whatever the reason, thats why I persued it,

 

and the same with the weed, if you found something that stopped the symptoms and gave you a life, the pull is unbeliveabley strong, I totally get why people would say its stupid, I know its not clever, but when you suffer as we do, and you find things that help.....how can we resist?

 

My priority is and always has been my child, I have faced the unbelivable just to give him a mother...I have paced and wailed at the back of the school hall just so he could see i was there for his class assembly, everything i do, and every move I make, I make for him....he is my whole world,

 

I often wish I had never had him, then I could kill myself, and would, he is the most beautiful thing in this world....it brings me to a wonderful quote...''for if he is not the word of God, then God never spoke''

[btdt]

I have not had the balls to try much as simple stupid things have made me sick as a dog for wks... I still will wait and see if anything changes when your finally off the drugs a year or two... as for some of us our drug does change how we perceive things.. One drug did that to me and the wd from it did it too... both had me with my head up my ass while the things I cared about suffered.  I know these are strange days do your best I guess that is all anyone can do. 

The changes you make can cause reactions... I know you know this so the less things change the better but windows and waves will come regardless just your bes keeping in mind the down side of changes t... wishing you well. 

peace

[Iggy131313]

im pretty heartbroken, aftera  coupe of hours of being up this morning i was feeling somewhat better, better than the past few days, so i collected my son from my ex for a few hours....me and boyfriend played with him at home for an hour, i was feeling bad but not suffering then we all went out for lunch, its a beautiful sunny day and i was happy on the way there.....once arriving the severe panic and terror set in, no thoughts behind it, just simply the SENSATION and it was overwhelming...i couldnt carry on

 

we left after eating, i only managed a few small mouthfuls and i came hme, boyfriend went to meet some friends, i couldnt look after freddie so took him back to his dads, i was overheating, not from the weather, its internal...my head was hot and flushed, panic was racing through me and the terror was unbearable....this terror is akathisia, but not at a level i would call akathisia, they are 2 different sensations but the same thing at different levels, however, this is level 10 terror.....once freddie was back at his dads i have crawled into bed and im trying to calm myself

 

the nausea is unbelivable, what im having trouble working out is WHY im having symptoms of too much serotonin when i missed a dose....thats hard to work out....the nausea is too much serotonin hitting the 5ht3 receptors, the panic and akathisia, too much serotonin hitting the 5ht2 receptors, so how is that possible?

 

the ONLY thing i can think of is that citalopram is a very strong 5ht1 agonist, so although it is raising serotonin in the brain it also in its way is lowering it by acting as a 5ht1 agonist (remember this actually causes less serotonin into the brain) BUT......i am now on the normal dose, perhaps when i missed the dose my brain became fooded with serotonin, not having the agonist working on it anymore and my 5ht1 receptors are still confused, and at the same time the effects of the citalopram are increasing stimulation of the other 5ht receptor subtyopes in the brain

 

I dont know, but i do know that my symptoms are still those of too much serotonin, even through a missed dose or lowered dose,

 

so here I am in bed, its so weird, if im alone and doing what i feel i have to (which is constantly research) i can remain calm, and although i feel very ill and i CAN feel some suffering, its not intense like if i had my son with me, thats always been the way......this is chemistry, its not thought processes or anything else, things i cannot understad

 

this morning, i smoked one tiny bit of weed, it made me feel worse, so i dont know if that was what was causing the terror later on, or if it was holding off the terror...what i do know for sure is that in this severe a state, its not helping, it WAS helping, but its not now, it could be making things worse, so no weed for a couple of weeks at least.....

 

im not sure what to do with myself, if i think of possibilities of things to do, the aka/terror ramps up...maybe i should just stay here in bed

 

y main symptoms are

 

1) severe akaterror

2) waves of panic and dread every 30 seconds

3) complete overwhelm

4) pounding racing heart

5) severe severe nausea (new symptom, never had until the ibuprophen, too much serotnin hitting 5ht3)

6) dizzyness, spaceyness and over heating in my face

 

its now 5.30pm and a danger time for me, i always get worse around this time f day, when the akaterror came on earlier it was at 2.30...when im very severe it can start as early as that and continue for the rest of the day......my heart is racing so much right now, god help me

 

so i dont know if the one puff of weed made me worse, although i didnt experience the onset of the akaterror until 2 hours after smoking it, or if that was gonna happen anyway, or if it was keeping it at bay for a while.....ive also noticed smoking cigs is revving me up really badly which can happen during more severe times like now

 

i wish i understood, i wish i had the answers, i know people say stop trying to figure it out becasuse i wont...no, I know i wont but it calms me to look, to try to understand and have an explaination of whats happening to me

 

my theory is pretty complete at the moment......the things that matter is kindling, how many times you have gone on and off the drug, (oh dear, not good for me hence why so severe) and perhaps the dosage of drug, and the amount of drug changes you have had (same as kindling really) also the way you taper......but the taper in my opinion, if you have been kindled need to be slower even than anywere promotes, for me, drop like 3% or less then hold for 6 months, would this take a lifetime to get off?? maybe.....but then, its worth it....

 

I emailed dr Shipko my theorys and he sent me a very kind responce, which i will share with you here

 

Hi Caroline:

I have a lot of neuroscience knowledge and have done adrenergic receptor research and did some neat studies on cholecystokinin in the past, however, I have been pretty uninterested in all of the serotonin receptor information and have not done any actual research for years.  Nothing affects just a single neurotransmitter - even SSRIs.  And one neurotransmitter affects all sorts of other ones.  It is fairly easy to find associations and coincidences and to generate hypotheses related to neurotransmitters, but it is unlikely that any of the correlations you are noticing are going to solve your problem.  You literally know more about the subject than I or Breggin do. 

Although I still dabble in research, I am mostly a clinician.  I feel your pain.  My suggestion to you is to skip the literature and to listen closely to your body.  What I know is that it takes a long time to get over the SSRI problems.  If marijuana gives you relief, it would seem reasonable to take it at a level that optimally helps your symptoms.  Patients tell me that a good diet, moderate exercise, good relationships and spiritual faith are the ingredients of recovery.

While reading various information on neurotransmitters and relating it to your experience might well generate hypothesis worthy of future research, even if somebody tested these hypotheses, it would be many years before anyone knew whether the hypotheses were correct or not. I find your grasp of the literature to be extraordinary, and encourage you to continue reading and thinking.  However, as a clinician that tries to help people such as yourself, I suggest that you listen closely to your body and to do the things that are helpful and to avoid the things that are harmful.

Sincerely,
Dr.S.   

[peggy]

I think you should stop the citalopram - you haven't stabilised on the low dose and maybe you are making it worse by continuing it

[Songbird]

I was wondering the same thing, Peggy.  The cannabis and nicotine could also be destabilising factors.  Perhaps try some gentle yoga and regular relaxation exercises instead.  Definitely keep the boyfriend, he sounds very beneficial!

[nz11]

Hey Iggy arent you the pp Iggy.

Well you have been on this low dose for a looooong time now and still not stable ...you know what i think ...time to wave it goodbye.

Just a thought but i think you already know my thinking.

Thanks for all the squirreling you did on pp ...it was always very much appreciated and even that new letter from Shipko above is helpful ..thanks for sharing

Printed and filed!

May copy and paste into my intro....

[Iggy131313]

Its very surprising to me that im having this reaction to one or 2 days lowering the dose and peoples advise to me is to stop taking it????

 

I know poeples hearts are in the right places, but it seems that scientific and even logical thinking is low on the ground in this advice.......

 

yesterday was horrendous, the terror/akathisia was so out of control, at 7pm i went out of the house, in a total daze and desperate to try and ind distraction, once again went to the pool hall....i suffered, badly and once again my exsistance is desperatly trying to get from one minute to the next.....thinking of things that might comfort me, thinking in the future perhaps someone will have the answers,

 

the only thing that could be a slight comfort is that even last night it was terror i was feeling and not akathisia, the terror is a lower version of it, and this morning i didnt feel sick until i had smoked a few cigerettes, now of course its back

 

Its hard to tell how im feeling today as ive been crying this morning and that has or course released alot of serotonin, as emotional tears contain high levels of serotonin

 

what I wonder the most is whether the supersensitisation is too MANY receptors or is it that the receptors after rebounding are themselves supersensitive? I guess im not going to know thatm unless some miracle brain scanning comes along....thats what i wish for the most, answers, answers that im not going to get

 

a new study has found is tardive dyskinesia where people thought the d2 receptors were ultra sensitised...NOW a study has found that D3 receptors are greatly upregulated in TD....

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24838395

 

anyway, my boyfriend finished with me last night, dont blame him, im no longer that woman he feel in love with, the healthy, boyant woman with suh a lust for life....im so garetful for the time i had, a repreave, just for a short time, it was the most beautiful time of my life, becasue of the contrast.....ive never had more hope or lived in the moment so much....i was able, for that time to be a mother, i havent been a mother for years, my baby boy doesnt even remember a time i was well....he would ask me ''mummy, are you not poorly anymore?'' and I would always answer ''im still poorly, but im getting better baby''

 

yesterday he said to me ''mummy, I had a dream that your brain wasnt poorly any more and you were smiling and happy again'' yes, hes not the only one, thats my dream too, and there ARE answers, but no one is looking

 

its obvious that its something to do with the upregulation of the serotonin receptors after a few months......but is that becasue there are extra? or is that becasue they come back in a super sensitised state? i mean....in one way you would think it must be extra, as otherwise there would be SOME symptoms as soon as one stops, depression or something, as there would be too few receptors.....we talk about up and down regulation, and that if there were too many receptors they would naturally downregulate, but i dont think thats true...there are a few studies including the one abouve that shows that downregulation is not always gonna happen......could kindling be that each time we stop a few more receptors upregulate and therefore those of us who are most kindled are the ones who have more recptors than others?

 

pssd and anhedinia, yes that fugures to me being the desensitisation of the 5ht1, that makes perfact sense to me, perhaps we all have that also....but i will not rest and i cannot rest until I find out what has happened to me, I learn more every year...if only I had had the knowledge I have now at the start, all the questions i had i do have the answers to....can I recover with this small amount in my system, of course I can, this is not destabilisation of the nervous system, that theory has never sat right with me, if that was the case the destabilisation would be the highest when coing off the drugs and slowly improve....tardive syndromes like mine are caused by the rebound of receptors......if i had only known that, if i had known anything before taking it again and blowing my system to pieces, the adverse reaction is what did for me the most......or if only i had stopped straight away.......

 

I would ask that anyone who isnt interested in my scientific musings doesnt read this thread...I need somewhere to record my thoughts, to speculate, to wonder and to talk about and record what is happening to me.....

 

as soon as i took those ibuprophen and they lowered the dose i was on, even for a day or 2, boom, it all came back.....i dnt quite understand why the symptoms are of high serotonin though, which they undoubtedly are......or why the reaction stays for so long once the levels are returned to what they were before...

 

this morning i have been crying alot saying goodbye to my boyfriend so its hard to tell how im feeling, as crying heps the symptoms....i feel less sick, its there but not as strong and i even ate a little yesterday...i can feel the terror even now and its only 11.30, that will build as the day goes on....im in bed right now and my ex has my son who theres no way i can care for.....once again im in the hands of a god i dont belive in, waiting to see if things will improve

[Iggy131313]

I want to add that even though I disagree with altos theory of what exactly this syndrome is, and the casue, I do not discount anyone elses theorys and am eternally grateful that people are at least speculating and trying to form theroys, but i dont belive that we are waiting for upregulation...i belive the problem COMES from upregulation which is why we have a delayed onset......from my thinking there are 2 types of damage, and this is only my thinking

 

those who have an immediate adverse reaction, either HAVE been on a mediaction before and are therefore kindled, this could be a desensitisation of the 5ht1.....along with severe reaction to already upregulated 5ht2 receptors...but from what I have read alot of epople who have an immediate adverse reaction the symptoms seem to be anhedinonia.....something i have only experienced at a couple of times, usually when the dose has been too high (like when starting the new bottle)

 

those who however are in withdrawal and the tardive syndrome begins or accutly worstens months after stopping, its IMPOSSIBLE that this is downregulated receptors.....most f us go through a tme after stopping of being totally fine, and then boom the bottom drops out of our worlds, akathisia starts etc etc, those are symptoms of too much serotonin hitting 5ht2 receptors and therefore inhibiting dopamine...especially akathisia

 

There are several drugs that have no affinity for the  D₂ receptor, but do cause akathisia. The most well known are the SSRIs. It has been suggested that SSRIs induce akathisia (and parkinsonism) by indirectly stimulating serotonin (5-HT)_2A receptors, which results in inhibition of DA release.^1,11 This is in line with the hypothesis that atypical antipsychotics give rise to less akathisia than classical drugs by blocking these serotonin 5-HT_2A receptors.^1,11,13

 

^{taken from here....http://www.cnsspectrums.com/aspx/articledetail.aspx?articleid=3570}

 

^{It also makes sense that poop out is the desensitisation to an extreme of the 5ht1 allowing flooding of serotonin to enter the brain, stimulating those receptors and causing the sympoms.....why are the symptoms different for people? looking at different types of ssri they DO have different actions of different receptors...also we must take into account the kindling and also of course, it goes without saying the individual and the make up of their brain to begin with......}

 

^{someone who was prone to panic and anxiety could well already have a greater number of 5ht2 receptors in the brain, or less inhibition caused by pre synaptic 5ht1...after all we are all different}

 

^{I have barked up the wrong tree a few timesduring my illness, but the fact is that this is 95% to do with the serotonin system, I would bet my life on the fact that if the serotonin system was restored to normal functioning that symptoms wouild dissapear...yes of course all the systems are interconnected and effects on one thing casue a chain of events to other parts of the brain...but the damage, the symptoms come from the serotonin system....if that was reversed we would no longer experince these hellish symptoms and would be free}

[Iggy131313]

another example of its all being serotonin, i noticed someone posted on symptoms and self care about curry...I have for a long time known that endorphins stop my symptoms in their tracks, i even wondered last year how in the world SINGING helped the sympotms, i was looking for a common denomiator amongst the things that helped stop the akathisia, pain, singing, sex talk, watching my son play sport, watching him achieve, and i found one in endorphins...sadly exercise doesnt work as it also releases serotonin adn breaks down mast cells which in turn release even MORE serotonin....and heres a study that shows that endorphins do indeed block serotonin to the brain

 

we WANT serotonin in the brain stem...thats where the 5ht1 pre synaptic receptors are, and serotonin on the presynaptic side of 5ht1 blocks serotonin release to the rest of the brain

 

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0024320578902242

[roadback1]

Iggy,

Perhaps you could consider some of the great advice from members here and do some gentle,healing things for yourself during this time. Maybe backing away from the heavy research you're doing and giving your mind a rest and your brain time to heal could be a start ?

[Iggy131313]

cant help it....really cant, it calms me to do it.....i follow my instincts on what helps and if this is what helps right now, thats what I have to do...I also have an answer to know ever it was who ontacted me about the akathisia and how the AP helped...I would imagine it was becasue even though the AP lowered dopamine, it blocks 5ht2 so hence the relif from akathisia...

 

thanks for the advice and support though

 

Im running a bath and im trying to clean up the house a little....its making the akathisia appear though

[Nathalou]

My first post here Iggy, wow you have made quite some research there! I find often times that reading too much on the matter, even be it stories here on SA, winds me up and distresses me quite a bit. Sometimes I think analysing toi much is not veneficiak, although I am the first to admit i've fallen in that trap many a times.

 

Iggy, are you considering getting off the AD? I think maybe the real gealing can commence once tour iff, especially since it doesn't seem to be helping you.

 

Hang in there.

[darktimes]

Hi iggy do you have spaced out feeling as symptom ?

[Iggy131313]

so much Draktimes.....I have it right now, if Im honest wih you, from my own experince the spaced out feeling, which is intense right now, feels like ive taken a million tablets of something, im also very shakey, VERY......but that feeling for me comes on an up or down from akathisia....

 

for me it goes like this

 

akathisia (step down to) severe terror and panic for NO reason (step down to) some PGAD and severe dp/dr spaceyness

 

its althe same thing but on very different levels...thats my speculation about it anyway

[Iggy131313]

drying my hair, the spaceyness is unbeliveable and when i exert myself in any way, by this i mean walk from one room to another or try to dry my hair the terror/aka ramps up really strong...serotonin is released on movement, i guess this is why

[darktimes]

I had an adverse reaction over two years ago and its the one symptom that wont seem to go away . i think sometimes that from the reaction the nervous systym gets shocked and we end up with severe anxiety symptoms . I too cant tolerate fish oils they make me a lot worse cant tolerate a lot of things to be honest

[Iggy131313]

omega 3 increases not only typtophan, but also gets it into the brain quicker...baaaaad....if you are like me and have severe supersensitivity to serotonin, dont even attepmt fish oils......it will only make us worse, we dont have brain damage, we have receptor supersensitivity....or if you had only an adverse reaction and had not taken the drugs before at any point then likely a desensitisation of 5ht1....

[darktimes]

think i had kindling reaction doctor put me on one made me feel really nervous came off that and on to another one bam blew me to bits

[NoMeaning25]

So if all you saying is correct, what happened to me then and how can i possibly get better? You know my history well. I havent seen improvements or had any windows.

 

Or am i the rare exception

[darktimes]

Hi no meaning are you still the same from when it all started ?

[btdt]

I could be wrong Iggy but maybe the idea of getting off completely comes from what seems to be choices that are not always in your best interest.  I for one know how a drug can affect those sorts of things... and having gone cold turkey and suffering all your having now and more... I can't read the nitty gritty as for me that was just normal life for so long a reminder I don't need... to focus on it is more than I can stand as most of the time i wanted to do anything but focus on it... lived to escape it... always. 

 

So suggestions to find an escape rather than focus on it may be coming from there too... to say you can't help the focus... I get that the ocd searching and detail hunting... ya it is a trap... it gets you no place but stuck... and the alternative to try something new may offer just that an alternative...one which may offer a way out.  

 

Both these thoughts are just mine a lone... tho I see what others may be thinking they may not have anything to do with why they say what they say.... all this is mine I take full responsibility for it... I hate to see you stuck indefinitely as stuck sucks... and you deserve more we all do. 

 

I have been stuck so many times and it takes courage and self discipline to move away from out little S and M traps we make for ourselves ... like they serve us and hurt us at the same time is what I mean... tho at one point they were the only light say in the beginning being online learning about wd is a light ...later it can become a trap as a way to cope but that means that is the only way you can cope and don't do anything new to switch the channel.  ... or get stuck... I am not completely sure getting stuck is not just part of wd... it may well be part that just has to happen but to stay stuck forever is not good either and you will never know if you can get unstuck unless you try something new...

 

Something harmless like yoga... I did yoga in bed it helped... I know what a suck... but I could not get up then... I can now... we find tools as we go to help us along and I know we can fall back as I do it all the time... need to fall back on old things to help me cope and that includes posting and reading here... yet one tiny step can make all the difference. 

 

I suggest you try something new anything... your brain may thank you...

 

all just my opinion and we know about opinions everyone has one... ignoring it will not affect me at all... as I know I am as apt to be wrong as anybody else ... just thought it may help you is all..

peace

[Iggy131313]

thanks guys, belle, the same has happened to you as everyone else

 

you have tardive issues from stopping the paxil, you were kindled already as you swapped drugs, you then had a milder adverse reaction to the other drugs you tried

 

your symptos are mostly dp/dr which although awful are allowing you nto work and live a semi normal life...these symptoms will go away...i have no doubt

 

you, like all of us most likely has an excess of serotonin. or s supser sensitivity to it...remind me, how long after stopping the paxil until your symptoms set in?

 

thanks btdt im trying

 

last night i managed to finish drying my hair, i then put makeup and a dress on...this helped...endorphins or something but looking so good improved the symptoms, this is a new tool for me, and its chemical...nothing else

 

i took a local dog for a walk and that brought on the akathisia, too much movement

 

after getting home the boyfriend who has undumped me took me to get some spicey soup as i wanted to see if the endorphins would knock out the akathisia...insread eatng ramoed it up....we then went to a wine bar wherei sat on my phone costantly reading reassuring emails from people to cope...after a glass of red wine, the akathisia went from a 6/10 to a 1/10 and i relaxed and had relief....i know it may not be wise but my god the sweet relief

 

from there back to the pool hall for an hour and the home, by which time the redwine was wearing off and the aka creaping back in

 

this morning i woke with terror  and panic again and tried self talk that it would feel better ina  while, smaoked a cig which made it worse and here i am...the nausea is less, im trying to see that as a positive..its still there but its less

 

its nearly 2 weeks from my last ibuprophen and 1 weeks from my last paracetamol...i have been keeping my dose steady and doing what i can to get through the days, no weed now for 2 days...but unless i smoke a little in the next few eeks im gonna face receptor rebound in 4 weeks an =d suffer for MONTHS .....

 

the pssd forum has annoyed me, i asked a few questions as they are very science basedon there and i like that...hahaha, they said my symptoms are most likely nothing to do with ssris and i should see a nuerologist, that akathisia is rare from serotonin....jesus

 

i have commited to taking my son to the zoo tomorrow, i KNOW im gonna suffer very badly but what can i do, hes desperate to go and i so want to see him enjoying himself, it means such alot to me...i have to try

 

lets see what today brings, i suspect severe akathisia

[dalsaan]

Iggy, I have hidden the previous related collection of posts.

 

Now I'd like to engage your focus on science and logic.   I cant help but think that people's reliance on the available science and logic that got us into this mess, particularly the hypothesis that depression comes from a chemical imbalance and antidepressants address this imbalance.   There was never any direct evidence that supported these propositions, they were inferences at best.

 

I have done what you are doing, relentlessly seeking an answer but I don't think the answer is to be had.   I think the damage of antidepressants, the effects of withdrawal and the context in which all this is happening is too complex to be able to establish clear cause and effect dynamics.   The best that we can do is engage in very conservative trial and error, listening to our body as the arbiter of outcomes.

 

Your own trial and error shows as you say in your own words, you spend most of your time trying to get over reactions to things.   My suggestion, try less things.   Understand that doing nothing is doing something.   You do have to have discipline for this and I think that is something you struggle with.

 

Free spirit wrote this recently and I think its very wise:

 

I'm realizing too, that for me, I needed to have a very fundamental shift in how I treated my body/mind. The thing that got me into all of this was agreeing to take a drug that supposedly did one thing, but had multiple other impacts--many of them negative.  This isn't an intellectual exercise to me; it's a result of qi gong practice and a lot of soul-searching. I'm working on not seeing symptoms as "enemies", but more as messengers. If something is happening, it means there is something out of balance. What can I do to bring about balance, without imposing something additional for my body/mind to deal with and process? It's a basic difference between Western medicine and Chinese medicine. Western medicine looks at a symptom and tries to get rid of it. Chinese medicine looks at a cause and how to support the body in doing what it already knows how to do--to heal itself.

 

In the words of Einstein, "no problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it." 

 

Dalsaan

[btdt]

Love it moving it to the quotes page

 

In the words of Einstein, "no problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it." 

[caperjackie]

Iggy .......... is it even remotely possible that when you are engaging in "pain, singing, sex talk etc" that the common denominator is not so much endorphins but the fact that you are focused on something else? Perhaps it is worth considering and observing?

[Iggy131313]

Hi Jackie, nice ot hear from you, no sadly not i can be totally absorbed in other things,,,,its not quite that

 

today i have severe pgad, this sympotm i find so terrifying, im scared its permenant

[Songbird]

I wholeheartedly agree with Dalsaan's post above.  It seems you are constantly self-medicating with alcohol, cigarettes and weed, and I can understand wanting to get relief.  But it is quite possible that there is some rebound from these which could even be delaying the recovery process.  In other words, there may be some short-term relief but you may be paying for it later.  By continuing to mess with your neurotransmitters this way you could be making it more difficult for your brain to rebalance itself.  However, it seems you have been advised this many times here and have not been very receptive, so all I can do is send my hopes for improvement for you soon.

[Djones1984]

Hi iggy I am sorry to hear your still suffering after so long I am in the same boat after my adverse reaction. I do not think the alcohol or weed is helping your recovery any though but I get it nicotine and a small dose of benzos is my vice and my only relief sometimes. All this can be to much to bear but I have seen improvments and I know you have too which means we are healing slowly from the research I have done I believe that 3 to 5 years is the turning point for this. Nothing in life lasts forever and we will prevail.

[Djones1984]

BTW akathesia is a b**** and I have had it everyday for 2 years and of and on while on my meds for 10 years prior dident know what it was till my reaction. I than realized how frekin evil these meds and doctors truly are. I ride the waves go to work everyday even though half the time I want to end it I just ride the roller coaster of waves knowing that one day it will ease up.

[btdt]

Iggy .......... is it even remotely possible that when you are engaging in "pain, singing, sex talk etc" that the common denominator is not so much endorphins but the fact that you are focused on something else? Perhaps it is worth considering and observing?

 

i wonder if your using the same part of the brain that does the same thing your "avoiding" by doing these things... I have been reading a book that states the brain is using the same part for many things and if it is busy doing one thing... like trying to retrain itself it has not brain space left to feel pain... 

it could be something like that...

 

Brain's Way of Healing.. is the name of the book... 

[Iggy131313]

i dont think the brain is dmaaged, sensitised yes, but not damaged...no, doing those things produces the chemical changes that bring about relief...im pretty sure the common factor is the endorphins in that case...

 

anyway, on tuesday i thought i was doing a little better, had my son all day, had a friend of his over to play and although i suffered, i didnt have the severe spaceyness, no sickness and felt some more hope...was more able to do things

 

ended up staying up all night in  a panic about everything....the next day i had commited to going to the zoo with some friends and my son, so i went, the only sympotms i was having was some anxiety and pgad......at night i was even able to lay on the sofa and watch tv...unheard of, really uheard of

 

 

but yesterday, thursday i was back to waking up with severe terror and even sickness which i hadnt had for a couple of days......

 

i tried really hard to function, i got my son ready and handed him to over to my ex as it was change over day, then went bak to bed trying to calm myself....got up with terror, panic and dread washing over me, i could feel the aka in the background too

 

obviously the after effects of the red wine were helping on tuesday, and the sleep deprivation helping on wednesday, becasue i had neither of those facors yesterday it was hell...i had a glass of wine at 4pm which wiped out all symptoms..yes i KNOW you all think its not a godd idea, but i cant help it, and many many people here use benzos prn to try ad ease their symptoms...

 

so ive woken again with the tell tale nausea and severe terror for no reason

[Iggy131313]

it would be great if someone could let muddles know something for me, god bless her soul, I pray for her every day

 

I noticed on her thread that shes talking of heightened symptoms and also of hayfever...this is no coincidence

 

I know alot of people have talked about the histamine connection...this is very relevant in drugs like paxil and doxepin which are histamine blockers, its easy to understand how histamine is then an issue if that system is over sensitised or desensitised...most cases over sensitised, you look back at razzles reaction to balsamic....that was a classic histamine reaction (anaphilaxis) he had a severe adverse reaction to doxepin which acts directly on the histamine system

 

also......i know neuroplastic who used to post on here went into anapilaxis after havng some strawberrys and he was in withdrawal from paxil, another drug that acts on histamine directly...however the sweet sweet muddles drug was mirtazapine after an adverse reaction to citalopram...

 

I see mirtazapine is a strong anti histamine, it would be interesting to know if muddles also is having stronger histamine reacions that before.....that might give a clue to how the mirt has turned on her, a clue....

 

.if I had to guess at what was happening to this dear beautiful suffering woman who i relate to as a mother it would be that poop out for her was a desensitisation of 5ht1, leading to flooding serotonin post synaptically......

 

but wheres the histamine connection with heightened symptoms?? citalopram has no action on the histamine receptors, not directly, i can handle things very high in histamine with no ill effects.......but hayfever season, game over....and this is why

 

Mast cells are the cells in our body that contain histamine, when an allergic reaction happens, these cells break down rapidly and their contents is empied into our bodys and brains....for people who have hayfever or other alleric reactions, hives, sneezing, and at the other end of the scale the anaphilaxis...they are reacting to the high levels of histamine (which as we know is a bucket that once overflowed rovokes reaction) however...histamine is not the only thing contained in mast cells.....yep, you guessed it, its our old buddy serotonin!!!

 

so if pollen is high, mast cells are being broken down and even more serotonin is being pumped into the brain...i know several people in long term recovery who experience a ramping up of symptoms during pollen/hayfever season even though none of the reactions are histamine related...no allergy symptoms at all, but worse akathisia, anhedonia etc....i know last year I suffered tremendously during hayfever season......

 

i cant post on other peoples threads or I wouold let her know this myself.......i know not much can be done about it but for me, sometimes knowing whats causin something can bring me relief....

 

and nath is 1100% correct about the full moon, its the positive ions, they can increases serotonin 10 fold in the brain....this is why the full moon effects us like it does.........ive often wondered if a negative ion generator would help but most that i have looked at dont have a big enough impact on negative ions....

 

basically everything always comes down to serotonin......some of the symptoms are manifestations that the supsersensitivity or desensitisation to serotonin is hvaing on OTHER receptors, dopamine speciafically, but that is not the cause, its a symptom of the cause.....

 

those receptor sites etc are most likely functioning normally, or would be without the serotonin probelms

[WinningThrough]

Hi Iggy. I just wondered, how does your akathisia manifest itself? What does it feel like?

[Altostrata]

Iggy, you could send Muddles a pm if you chose.

[Muddles]

Bless you - thanks for that.

 

I have tried so hard to find out what has happened and I know it's not just seretonin and dopamine for me.

So many neurotransmitters have been effected - I have written some down in my thread somewhere.

 

I have been looking at the limbic system and by reading about what each part of the limbic system does what I have been able to figure out there is definitely big changes/damage to this system.

 

I don't feel like I have any seretonin or dopamine - no happiness or pleasure from anything but this could also be damage to recptor ends. I have heard that long term use can make rexeptor ends curl - they are supposed to be straight.

 

If my brain would work like it once did I'm sure I could figure it all out somehow. I just know that us as the ones who are suffering; are quite possibly the ones who can pinpoint and find out what has happened through research from what we are suffering.

 

I hope your recent reaction will settle soon. I bet it's a huge shock when you have seen huge improvement.

[Muddles]

If my post doesn't make sense - I'm sorry...I'm struggling.