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Connecticut Shooter and SSRI/violence connection


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On another website, a commenter linked to this story which I did not read in full on the website of lewrockwell. I am not entirely certain who Lew Rockwell is but he or she is mentioned fairly often by the Ron Paul types and via osmosis I've learned that Rockwell is considered something of an fringe-y, anti-semite type by mainstream.

 

I just found this bit interesting, and I didn't read the first 500 words or so of the article ... I scanned to this exerpt belwoo

 

Not too long ago I mentioned in this column the remarkable database of serious SSRI ("selective" serotonin reuptake inhibitors, the so-called "second generation ‘antidepressants’") adverse reactions that have been documented in the public domain. That website can be accessed at www.ssristories.com. When researching that important website, keep in mind that the vast majority of media reports on seemingly irrational criminal events usually don’t ask the question in the title above – unless the drugs are illicit. So the thousands of examples documented and reported represent just the tip of what surely is an enormous iceberg.), since even the FDA estimates that up to 99% of adverse events from any given drug is never reported to that agency.

 

 

SSRI Stories is a collection of 4,800+ news stories (mainly criminal in nature) that have appeared in the media (newspapers, TV, scientific journals) or that were part of FDA public testimony in either 1991, 2004 or 2006, in which psych drugs are mentioned.

 

<<<What is the PDR trying to warn us physicians about when we prescribe antidepressants?>>>

 

The Physicians' Desk Reference lists the following common adverse reactions (side effects) to SSRI antidepressants (among a host of other physical and neuropsychiatric effects). None of these adverse reactions is listed as Rare.

 

Manic Reaction (Mania, e.g., Kleptomania, Pyromania, Dipsomania, Nymphomania)

Hypomania (e.g., poor judgment, over spending, impulsivity, etc.)

Abnormal Thinking

Hallucinations

Personality Disorder

Amnesia

Agitation

Psychosis

Abnormal Dreams

Emotional Lability

Alcohol Abuse and/or Craving

Hostility

Paranoid Reactions

Confusion

Delusions

Sleep Disorders

Akathisia (Severe Inner Restlessness)

Withdrawal Syndrome

Impulsivity

 

The website emphasizes:

 

"Adverse reactions are most likely to occur when starting or discontinuing the drug, increasing or lowering the dose or when switching from one SSRI to another. Adverse reactions are often diagnosed as bipolar disorder when the symptoms may be entirely iatrogenic (treatment induced). Withdrawal, especially abrupt withdrawal, from any of these medications can cause severe neuropsychiatric and physical symptoms. It is important to withdraw extremely slowly from these drugs, often over a period of a year or more, under the supervision of a qualified and experienced specialist, if available. Withdrawal is sometimes more severe than the original symptoms or problems."

 

<<<SSRI adverse reactions are actually predictable, understandable and therefore are usually not unexpected. They are not actually "side effects">>>

 

So with the list of common adverse effects of these drugs, I present below a "short list" of drug–associated violence over the past decade or two that was perpetrated by mostly young people who were involved in newsworthy shootings and whose psych drugs were identified, published or otherwise somehow reported to the public. Tragically, in the vast majority of psychiatric drug-related suicides, homicides or other types of irrational violence (what the media calls "senseless") prescription drugs are generally not reported in the corporate-controlled and subsidized media, where pharmaceutical companies advertise heavily, certainly exerting influences on how much investigative journalism is allowed. Again, he who calls the piper calls the tune.

 

The SSRI Stories website has, among its nearly 5000 entries, a list of 66 school shootings that are overwhelmingly and disproportionately American. The school shooter’s list is often accompanied by suicidality caused by either taking or withdrawing from the drugs. There has been an explosion of such incidents since Prozac was introduced onto an unsuspecting market in 1989. Most of the developed world’s drug regulatory agencies, including the FDA, have not tested these psychotropic drugs for safety or efficacy in humans under the age of 18 (either short term or long term) and therefore have not approved their use for that group (with rare exceptions). Therefore we physicians, when we prescribe these untested drugs to that underage group (that has immature brain development) are doing so "off label" and thus we are exposing ourselves to medico-legal risks.

 

Here is the sobering list.

 

Eric Harris age 17 (Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 in Colombine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado, killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and injured 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.

 

Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

 

Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

 

 

Thirteen-year-old Chris Fetters killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

 

Twelve-year-old Christopher Pittman murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

 

Thirteen-year-old Mathew Miller hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

 

Fifteen-year-old Jarred Viktor stabbed his grandmother 61 times after 5 days on Paxil.

 

Fifteen-year-old Kip Kinkel (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

 

Luke Woodham age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

 

A Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

 

Michael Carneal (Ritalin) a 14-year-old opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

 

Young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

 

Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

 

TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

 

Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

 

James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

 

Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

 

Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

 

Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

 

Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

 

Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

 

Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

 

Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

 

Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself soon after his prescription of Lexapro had been doubled.

 

Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

 

Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

 

Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara’s parents said ".... the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…")

 

Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,

 

(Gareth’s father could not accept his son’s death and killed himself)

 

Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family’s detached garage.

 

Matthew Miller was 13 saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty and school. The psychiatrist recommended Zoloft for him. Seven days after beginning the Zioloft samples, his mother found him dead… hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

 

Kurt Danysh, age 18 and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

 

Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

 

A ten-year-old boy from Houston shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

 

15-year-old Hammad Memon shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."

 

22-year-old culinary student Matti Saari shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

 

27-year-old Steven Kazmierczak shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

 

18-year-old Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

 

14-year-old Asa Coon of Cleveland, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

 

16-year-old Jon Romano, taking medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school.

 

lewrockwell.com/kohls/kohls13.1.html

 

Also, I don't know that the CT kid was taking Drugs, though it seems a safe assumption. Maybe that fact is already known just not to me,

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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On another website, a commenter linked to this story which I did not read in full on the website of lewrockwell. I am not entirely certain who Lew Rockwell is but he or she is mentioned fairly often by the Ron Paul types and via osmosis I've learned that Rockwell is considered something of an fringe-y, anti-semite type by mainstream.

 

I just found this bit interesting, and I didn't read the first 500 words or so of the article ... I scanned to this exerpt belwoo

 

 

Not too long ago I mentioned in this column the remarkable database of serious SSRI ("selective" serotonin reuptake inhibitors, the so-called "second generation ‘antidepressants’") adverse reactions that have been documented in the public domain. That website can be accessed at www.ssristories.com. When researching that important website, keep in mind that the vast majority of media reports on seemingly irrational criminal events usually don’t ask the question in the title above – unless the drugs are illicit. So the thousands of examples documented and reported represent just the tip of what surely is an enormous iceberg.), since even the FDA estimates that up to 99% of adverse events from any given drug is never reported to that agency.

 

 

SSRI Stories is a collection of 4,800+ news stories (mainly criminal in nature) that have appeared in the media (newspapers, TV, scientific journals) or that were part of FDA public testimony in either 1991, 2004 or 2006, in which psych drugs are mentioned.

 

<<<What is the PDR trying to warn us physicians about when we prescribe antidepressants?>>>

 

The Physicians' Desk Reference lists the following common adverse reactions (side effects) to SSRI antidepressants (among a host of other physical and neuropsychiatric effects). None of these adverse reactions is listed as Rare.

 

Manic Reaction (Mania, e.g., Kleptomania, Pyromania, Dipsomania, Nymphomania)

Hypomania (e.g., poor judgment, over spending, impulsivity, etc.)

Abnormal Thinking

Hallucinations

Personality Disorder

Amnesia

Agitation

Psychosis

Abnormal Dreams

Emotional Lability

Alcohol Abuse and/or Craving

Hostility

Paranoid Reactions

Confusion

Delusions

Sleep Disorders

Akathisia (Severe Inner Restlessness)

Withdrawal Syndrome

Impulsivity

 

The website emphasizes:

 

"Adverse reactions are most likely to occur when starting or discontinuing the drug, increasing or lowering the dose or when switching from one SSRI to another. Adverse reactions are often diagnosed as bipolar disorder when the symptoms may be entirely iatrogenic (treatment induced). Withdrawal, especially abrupt withdrawal, from any of these medications can cause severe neuropsychiatric and physical symptoms. It is important to withdraw extremely slowly from these drugs, often over a period of a year or more, under the supervision of a qualified and experienced specialist, if available. Withdrawal is sometimes more severe than the original symptoms or problems."

 

<<<SSRI adverse reactions are actually predictable, understandable and therefore are usually not unexpected. They are not actually "side effects">>>

 

So with the list of common adverse effects of these drugs, I present below a "short list" of drug–associated violence over the past decade or two that was perpetrated by mostly young people who were involved in newsworthy shootings and whose psych drugs were identified, published or otherwise somehow reported to the public. Tragically, in the vast majority of psychiatric drug-related suicides, homicides or other types of irrational violence (what the media calls "senseless") prescription drugs are generally not reported in the corporate-controlled and subsidized media, where pharmaceutical companies advertise heavily, certainly exerting influences on how much investigative journalism is allowed. Again, he who calls the piper calls the tune.

 

The SSRI Stories website has, among its nearly 5000 entries, a list of 66 school shootings that are overwhelmingly and disproportionately American. The school shooter’s list is often accompanied by suicidality caused by either taking or withdrawing from the drugs. There has been an explosion of such incidents since Prozac was introduced onto an unsuspecting market in 1989. Most of the developed world’s drug regulatory agencies, including the FDA, have not tested these psychotropic drugs for safety or efficacy in humans under the age of 18 (either short term or long term) and therefore have not approved their use for that group (with rare exceptions). Therefore we physicians, when we prescribe these untested drugs to that underage group (that has immature brain development) are doing so "off label" and thus we are exposing ourselves to medico-legal risks.

 

Here is the sobering list.

 

Eric Harris age 17 (Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 in Colombine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado, killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and injured 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.

 

Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

 

Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

 

 

Thirteen-year-old Chris Fetters killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

 

Twelve-year-old Christopher Pittman murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

 

Thirteen-year-old Mathew Miller hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

 

Fifteen-year-old Jarred Viktor stabbed his grandmother 61 times after 5 days on Paxil.

 

Fifteen-year-old Kip Kinkel (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

 

Luke Woodham age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

 

A Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

 

Michael Carneal (Ritalin) a 14-year-old opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

 

Young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

 

Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

 

TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

 

Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

 

James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

 

Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

 

Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

 

Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

 

Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

 

Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

 

Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

 

Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

 

Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself soon after his prescription of Lexapro had been doubled.

 

Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

 

Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

 

Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara’s parents said ".... the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…")

 

Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,

 

(Gareth’s father could not accept his son’s death and killed himself)

 

Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family’s detached garage.

 

Matthew Miller was 13 saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty and school. The psychiatrist recommended Zoloft for him. Seven days after beginning the Zioloft samples, his mother found him dead… hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

 

Kurt Danysh, age 18 and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

 

Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

 

A ten-year-old boy from Houston shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

 

15-year-old Hammad Memon shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."

 

22-year-old culinary student Matti Saari shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

 

27-year-old Steven Kazmierczak shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

 

18-year-old Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

 

14-year-old Asa Coon of Cleveland, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

 

16-year-old Jon Romano, taking medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school.

 

lewrockwell.com/kohls/kohls13.1.html

 

Also, I don't know that the CT kid was taking Drugs, though it seems a safe assumption. Maybe that fact is already known just not to me,

 

Hi Alex,

 

There is no doubt in mind that psych meds can cause people to commit suicide or homicide who otherwise wouldn't have done it. But at the same time, I feel you can't always blame the drug as the direct cause.

 

In the case of the Columbine killers, someone (name escapes me) had written a compelling book that suggested they were quite evil and destined to commit these crimes. He was responding to folks who felt they were the victims of bullying as he felt that was not an issue. So perhaps in this case, the drugs simply pushed them over the edge.

 

The killer who shot the kids in the Amish classroom was taking an SSRI if I remember correctly. But in my opinion, that seemed to have nothing to do with it as he seemed quite evil.

 

In the case of the Newton shooter, I am taking a wait and see approach as so far the reports I have seen said he took them as a kid. But nothing about if he was on anything recently.

 

Also, in my opinion, if the US was like other countries as far as its gun laws, we probably wouldn't be having the discussion about the SSRI/violence connection. But of course, we can't take away people's gun rights now can we even though 10,000 per year are killed by them :rolleyes:

 

CS

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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Also, in my opinion, if the US was like other countries as far as its gun laws, we probably wouldn't be having the discussion about the SSRI/violence connection. But of course, we can't take away people's gun rights now can we even though 10,000 per year are killed by them :rolleyes:

 

CS

 

 

Right!

 

The difference between Min Yingjun and Adam Lanza: a knife and a gun

http://warincontext.org/2012/12/14/the-difference-between-min-yingjun-and-adam-lanza-a-knife-and-a-gun/

 

When Min Yingjun went on the rampage at an elementary school in the Henan province village of Chengping on Friday morning, his attack would surely have been just as deadly as Adam Lanza’s killing spree in Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., had Yingjun been carrying similar weapons. But however murderous someone’s intent, a knife simply can’t inflict as much harm as a gun.

and:

It wasn’t Lanza’s troubled childhood that killed twenty children; it was precision engineering performing exactly in accordance with its designs. The bullets flew through the air precisely in the direction they were being aimed and were just as deadly as their manufacturers intend them to be. Who wants to take the credit?

and I agree...the psych drugs are generally just part of a very complex picture and not the only factor that leads to violence...

 

I did a post on this issue today too in which I also bring up the complicating issue of the psych drugs with a link to studies etc that show that they do indeed raise both suicidal and homicidal feelings in some people:

 

Research in child abuse/neglect shows that violent people are created, not born

http://beyondmeds.com/2012/12/15/violent-people-are-created-not-born/

Everything Matters: Beyond Meds 

https://beyondmeds.com/

withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.
 

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I told my husband last night,I'd bet this young man in CT was on medication. We'll hear soon enogh I'm sure.

C/T Celexa and Trazadone on Jan.29th 2014
Prescribed 1mg of Klonopin every 6 hours on Jan.29th
Began tapering Klonopin April 18th..stretching time between doses...at first one hour for 2 weeks then a half hour for app.10 days then another half hour 10days later.
Presently at .25 three times a day..6 2 and 10pm. Trying to stabilize.
Also still taking gabapentin 300mgs 2xs a day..

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I heard several talks by stuart twemlow, a psychiatrist who's expertise in anti-bullying and school violence. He was brought into Columbine by the authorities in the aftermath. The thing that I most recall, is that Twemlow, who'd been all over the world consulting, seemed so little shocked by the mass violence. I feel to some degree similarly.

 

Sure, it's too easy to say psychiatric drugs alone caused this, and the other cases. But I can't deny that, what, 90+% of these violent atrocities are perpetrated by young people on Drugs, known to cause mania, disinhibition and carry an explicit warning about suicide and (by extention) homicide.

 

I guess, I'm just not surprised when these things happen.

 

The prohibition of fire arms -- that's not very realistic given the makeup on state legislatures and the amendment process, but if the people so decided it'd take a long time to come to pass, IMO. And then it'd take decades to confiscate the hundreds of millions of fire arms in circulation. Even if I thought this was the answer, I'm not holding my breath on its realization.

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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  • Moderator Emeritus

The argument that guns don't kill people, people kill people drives me nuts. People with guns kill people. And people with mental health issues and guns kill people quite often.

 

As an Australian I don't know enough about your political system to know how difficult tighter gun control would be. But I do know there are 20 innocent young kids that will never grow up and get the chance to vote for tighter gun laws.

 

We had new gun control legislation and a buy back scheme after a massacre here in 1996. Haven't had one since then

Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

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Hi Dalsaan,

 

I'm not making that argument.

 

In the past many scholars interpreted an enumerated right in the US Bill or Rights (the 1st 10 amendments to our constitution) as establishing the right to citizens to form regulated state militia. Current legal opinion, or a significant body of the opionators, holds that the 2nd amendment in Bill of Rights protects an individual citizen's rights to own a gun.

 

In this case the shooter's mother owned legally purchased firearms. Only one measure could have stopped the massacre, prohibiting the mother from purchasing the weapons.

 

There is a 'legal' way to amend the US Constituion. It is a procedural nightmare, by design. Both chambers of Congress must approve the amendment, I think by 2/3rds vote. After that it goes to the individual states. There it requires, I think, a majority vote in atleast 3/4 of state legislatures -- 37 of the 50 states. As you are not too familiar with US politics, I'll tell ya this is a long shot. Other, extra-legal methods of achieving the same goal are, IMO, equally unlikely to occur in the near term.

 

Maybe there will be some addition regulations applied to those with mental illnesses. I could foresee something like that though regulating enforcement would be pretty difficult.

 

The US is one of the leading gun-death nations on the planet. Around 15th.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/23/facebook-posts/the-us-is-no-in-gun-violence-is-it/

 

While this school shooting is making headlines because it is so horrific and the victims children, some of large cities are quite murderous. Chicago gun violence is rampant. Over 400 people have been murdered in Chicago alone in 2012.

http://www.wgntv.com/news/wgntv-murders-in-chicago-weekend-violence-results-in-murder-rate-at-all-time-high-20120930,0,536537.story

 

It's very sad that deranged people can do such heinous things. I've heard a lot of chatter about locking up the 'criminally insane' before they can commit crimes. This is more scary to me, of course. I was labeled with a 'Scizoaffective Disorder' diagnosis and if asylums existed then, I'd probably have be one of the people preemptively imprisoned in one.

 

Alex

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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A collective problem, if not recognized as such, always appears as a personal problem, and in individual cases may give the impression that something is out of order in the realm of the personal psyche. The personal sphere is indeed disturbed, but such disturbances need not be primary; they may well be secondary, the consequence of an unsupportable change in the social atmosphere. The cause of disturbance is, therefore, not to be sought in the personal surroundings, but rather in the collective situation. Psychotherapy has hitherto taken this matter far too little into account. -- Jung...

 

from a longer piece that is quite profound and lovely...well worth reading... http://www.laurakkerr.com/2012/12/16/the-long-shadow-of-massacre/

Everything Matters: Beyond Meds 

https://beyondmeds.com/

withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.
 

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Hi Alex. I didn't mean to imply you were making that argument. It's just an argument that gets rolled out whenever there is a mass shooting and it really annoys me

 

Thanks for filling in the detail on what change would take. It seems like a vicious circle. High levels of shooting mean people arm themselves which leads to high levels of shootings ...

 

Of course we have shooting deaths here but not any where near the same level

Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

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Hi Alex. I didn't mean to imply you were making that argument. It's just an argument that gets rolled out whenever there is a mass shooting and it really annoys me

 

Thanks for filling in the detail on what change would take. It seems like a vicious circle. High levels of shooting mean people arm themselves which leads to high levels of shootings ...

 

Of course we have shooting deaths here but not any where near the same level

 

Dalsaan, you might want to take a look at this article. To say the outlook is bleak in the US is an understatement.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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I realized I'd reached my limit on hearing about this story when I saw someone say that the kid wasn't on the right medicine, clearly. Further, the guy webt on, the tragedy is still greater because there we have effective 'dopamine antagonists' which allow people with psychosis and such disturbances to function in normal society.

 

I sometimes feel like I live in The Matrix or The 6th Sense.

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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I realized I'd reached my limit on hearing about this story when I saw someone say that the kid wasn't on the right medicine, clearly. Further, the guy webt on, the tragedy is still greater because there we have effective 'dopamine antagonists' which allow people with psychosis and such disturbances to function in normal society.

 

I sometimes feel like I live in The Matrix or The 6th Sense.

 

Think this kinda says it all. http://www.theonion.com/articles/****-everything-nation-reports,30743/?ref=auto

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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I used some guesswork and found a way to make that link functional. Probably need a bit.ly or some other redirect if a **** word is in the URL.

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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I used some guesswork and found a way to make that link functional. Probably need a bit.ly or some other redirect if a **** word is in the URL.

 

Sorry about that Alex, I checked the link enough to see it worked and went thru to the Onion but did not actually open the article up again. I'm not sure why this whole thing is bothering me as much as it is. I think the lives snuffed out in the inner Chicago streets are just as valuable.. Maybe it's the innocence of those who were lost.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Hi Skyler

 

Thanks for the link to the article. It's a disturbing read but Hannah Arendt is one of.my favourite political theorists

 

Dalsaan

Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

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There's an intersection between right-wing or libertarian thinking and those opposed to psychiatric drugging. Strange bedfellows.

 

Shootings committed by youth on psychiatric drugs are only a tiny percentage of all deaths by gunshot in the U.S.

 

While I believe psychiatric drugs can be bad for youths and all living creatures, causing adverse effects leading to self-destructive and violent acts, to reduce gun deaths, I would very strictly limit the possession of firearms.

 

Certainly automatic and semi-automatic weapons, which enable mass killings, are not needed by ordinary citizens.

 

For 175 years, the "right to bear arms" in the U.S. Bill of Rights was interpreted to apply to state militias. It was only in the 1950s, with the rise of the NRA gun lobby, that it was interpreted to mean personal possession of firearms.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Alto, nice. Well thought out.

 

Dalsaan, this link goes to a radio show hosted by Ian Masters, an Aussie who comes out of the BBC. This broadcast covers a range of gun legislation and issues we confront in the US.

 

December 17 - Corporate America and the NRA's Deadly Alliance; Heroic Teachers in a Profession that's Denigrated; "Rampage: The Social Roots of School Schootings"

 

http://ianmasters.com/sites/default/files/mp3/bbriefing_2012_12_17full_audioport.mp3

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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The atypical antipsychotic Fanapt is being mentioned http://www.businessinsider.com/adam-lanza-taking-antipsychotic-fanapt-2012-12

 

These drugs are not the only ones that can cause the opposite of their desired effect. Several anti-depressant medications are also restricted to adults, for the depression they inspire in kids rather than eliminate.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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That's one of the scarier articles on psychiatric drugs that I've read. Why are doctors not aware of these problems?

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1588-introducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6263-success-jemima-survives-lexapro-and-dr-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 

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That's one of the scarier articles on psychiatric drugs that I've read. Why are doctors not aware of these problems?

The primary consideration are $s, not peoples, and Big Pharma is running the show.. Well, they and the insurance companies. As long as the accepted standard of care is followed, there can be no malfeasance, misfeasance or malpractice.

 

Mega Corps Rule(s)!

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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That's one of the scarier articles on psychiatric drugs that I've read. Why are doctors not aware of these problems?

The primary consideration are $s, not peoples, and Big Pharma is running the show.. Well, they and the insurance companies. As long as the accepted standard of care is followed, there can be no malfeasance, misfeasance or malpractice.

 

Mega Corps Rule(s)!

 

Do you have an emoticon you could spare for projectile vomiting?

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1588-introducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6263-success-jemima-survives-lexapro-and-dr-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 

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Mega Corps Rule(s)!

 

Do you have an emoticon you could spare for projectile vomiting?

Will this do? Posted Image

 

There will be no Pax Romanis for our civilization my friend. We have all well and truly been sold.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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The atypical antipsychotic Fanapt is being mentioned http://www.businessinsider.com/adam-lanza-taking-antipsychotic-fanapt-2012-12

 

These drugs are not the only ones that can cause the opposite of their desired effect. Several anti-depressant medications are also restricted to adults, for the depression they inspire in kids rather than eliminate.

I saw that Alto.

 

Ok, I know this is speculation but what about this scenario? Adam is doing very poorly on this drug which seems logical in light of his mother's concerns that he is deteriorating and she doesn't seem to know what to do. So as I mentioned in another thread, she decided to initiate actions to commit him to a psych hospital which causes him to snap and commit the atrocities.

 

By the way, I just read an article that this was very well planned out. But I don't think that is inconsistent with an event pushing you over the edge to want to commit horrific crimes.

 

CS

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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I just want to say psychiatric drugs crippled me as an adult. I can't imagine what they're doing to our kids. I heard shootings/suicides/etc followed the mass drugging of kids. I hate to know how many rampages it will take to stop the drugging.

Zoloft cold turkey in early '07. Survived withdrawal with other meds.

Hypersensitive to certain products/food/chemicals ever since. I'm not imagining things since they occur the day after I take them or tried something new the day before.

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Do you have an emoticon you could spare for projectile vomiting?

Will this do? Posted Image

 

LOL! Thanks. I needed a chuckle this morning.

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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SSRIStories is related to or part of The International Coalition for Drug Awareness, Ann Blake Tracy's organization. http://www.drugawareness.org/

 

She wrote "Prozac, Panacea or Pandora?". I have not read it, but understand it is very heavy on science that explains the violence. I THINK that the high affinity serotonergics cause a dissociation of sorts or, as many of us have experienced, a distancing from emotions. Couple that with sleep disorders/ waking dream states plus access to weapons, violence on TV and video games, the increase in school shooting since the mid 1980s is not surprising.

 

Luvox, the SSRI that Eric Harris of Columbine was taking, was pulled from the market after the connection to the shooting, but later reintroduced in a CR formulation. I try not to reference Wikipedia, but it does provide links out to a variety of sources:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluvoxamine

According to this info, it had the shortest half-life of all SSRIs prior to the CR formulation.

 

"In 1999, fluvoxamine came under great public scrutiny after it was discovered that Eric Harris, one of the two teenage shooters involved in the Columbine High School massacre, had been taking the drug after switching from Zoloft. Many immediately pointed fingers at fluvoxamine and its manufacturer Solvay Pharmaceuticals. [11] Sales fell, and Solvay withdrew the medication from the U.S. market in 2002. [12] In 2007, Solvay re-introduced Luvox to the U.S. market, which is now manufactured by Palo Alto, California-based Jazz Pharmaceuticals, Inc. On February 28, 2008, the FDA approved a controlled-release formulation of fluvoxamine for Solvay Pharmaceuticals, to be marketed as Luvox CR."

 

The court docs on Columbine were sealed for 25 years (for $10,000 settlement..?? Am I reading that right??).

http://www.denverpost.com/golf/ci_5094436

 

I believe that SSRIs and SNRIs have had a major role in the steady increase in bizarre mass shootings since the 1980s. I am not a gun person; do not know the laws or how access has changed over the years. I believe laws can only go so far. People can gain access to guns on the black market just as they can get drugs on the internet or streets.

 

 

The Virginia Tech shooter's records from childhood were 'protected' based on privacy laws. He was thought to have Selective Mutism which is usually treated with SSRIs and therapy. This case went wrong at so many points, it's a sad commentary of the cracks in the system. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seung-Hui_Cho

 

My question is WHY are there so many more severely disturbed kids/people carrying out massive violent crimes with no apparent motive (romantic, job, etc) the past 15-20 years?? I have a few friends with teenage kids (mostly girls) who are medicated due to aggressive tendencie, mostly toward the mother. I can't help but notice they are very intelligent and/or

creative kids from families I see as most healthy and involved in their kids' lives and activities.

 

~Is it increased ('better') access to mental healthcare and drugs that are escalating violence?

~Copycat crimes such as Virginia Tech shooter emulating Colombine?

~Access to firearms, especially with the emergence of the internet (Virginia Tech)? Inter-estingly, the VA Tech shooter had been in psychiatric inpatient unit, but because he went VOLUNTARILY, he was still able to buy firearms. I didn't realize that only INVOLUNTARY admits were prohibited from purchasing firearms.

 

It's been difficult to read and listen to all of the speculation though I'm doing it myself.

 

A sad, unentagleable situation. I can't imagine the grief these families are experiencing.

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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I don't know if anyone else was watching any of the shows on CNN this Saturday in which Dr. Sanjay Gupta referred to antidepressants in the context of discussing mass shootings such as the recent one in Connecticut. He didn't follow through much at all on this, but I found it interesting that he at least brought up the possibility of them being at least one part of the picture in some cases.

 

I'm not trying to start a discussion of any kind about physical nature of certain kinds of mental illness, just thought the fact that ADs were even mentioned might be of interest, though the references were not pursued further.

 

I would love to see him pursue that topic further at another time. Not holding my breath, though.

 

The following is just the beginning of the transcript of his full show. The citation for the full online transcript is at the top. But the only references to antidepressants were in the first minutes of the show, I believe. I've bolded them below:

 

http://transcripts.c...22/hcsg.01.html

 

SANJAY GUPTA MD

 

Inside Violent Minds; Parenting a Troubled Child

 

Aired December 22, 2012 - 16:30 ET

 

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

 

 

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, HOST: Hello and thanks for being with us.

 

As you may know, I spent the past week immersed in what might be the most upsetting story I think I've ever reported.

 

I want to start by saying, the kind of horrible violence that we saw in Newtown, Connecticut, it isn't new. In fact, the worst school attack ever took place more than 80 years ago in Bath, Michigan. There was a consolidated school, the pride and joy of that community. But it also meant increased property taxes, and this farmer named Andrew Kehoe, he became angry about that. So get this -- for weeks, he put dynamite under the local school and then eventually blew it up, 38 children died. And then Kehoe killed himself with another load of dynamite.

 

Now, you know, we'll never truly know for sure why he did all that or what made the young man in Newtown unload a rifle into a classroom full of first graders. But I've looked at other school shootings and they just might provide some clues.

 

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

 

GUPTA (voice-over): The first thing you notice when you look around Newtown, everyone has that questioning look, why? What did we miss, if anything? No answers yet, just hindsight.

 

(on camera): To try and make some sense of the tragedy here in Newtown, Connecticut, medical investigators often look for evidence of patterns, not talking about looking at clothing styles or musical preferences or even lifestyle, but rather looking for evidence of specific plans, could get some clue as to what was happening in the person's mind and in their brain.

 

(voice-over): It's hard to know because thankfully there are relatively few tragedies like this one, but a close look at 10 of the most analyzed mass murder cases in history provide some remarkable insight.

 

According to this research published in the journal "Aggression and Violent Behavior," doctors typically start by placing these killers into three categories, traumatized, psychotic, and psychopathic.

 

In 2005, a 16-year-old killed nine people at a school in Minnesota. A look into his past revealed an abused boy with an awful family history. The shooter had been previously traumatized. The Virginia Tech shooter killed 32 people, six were murdered in Arizona and 12 lives were taken in an Aurora, Colorado movie theater. In each case, the killers showed signs of psychotic behavior, severe delusions and paranoia.

 

Thirteen people were shot and killed in Columbine, Colorado. One of the murderers was later discovered to be a textbook psychopath and we now know he even laughed while gunning down his victims. Looking back, none of them had snapped. They had all left clues, pieced together after it was too late.

 

(on camera): We still don't know much about the shooter who lived in this home, but there is something else to consider -- what medications, if any, he was on, and specifically I'm talking about antidepressants.

 

If you look at the studies on other shootings like this that have happened, medications like this were a common factor. Now, I want to be clear, I'm not saying that antidepressants can't be effective, but people seem to agree there is a vulnerable time when someone starts these medications and when someone stops could lead to increased impulsivity, decreased judgment, and making someone out of touch.

 

(voice-over): None of this is an excuse and it's never one thing. None of these behaviors will fully predict or explain why, but soon again there will be hindsight that might just help prevent another tragedy.

 

(END VIDEOTAPE)

 

GUPTA: Now, in terms of medication, one report showed over a seven- year period, there were 11,000 episodes of violence related to drug side effects. But it is worth noting that if a death was involved in that violence, most often it was a suicide. An individual did not, in fact, harm others. You know, a lot to talk about.

 

I want to bring in Dr. __ from Harvard Medical School. He's an expert in forensic psychiatry. He's also the author of this book, "Almost a Psychopath."

 

Thanks for joining us....

I was "TryingToGetWell" (aka TTGW) on paxilprogress. I also was one of the original members here on Surviving Antidepressants

 

I had horrific and protracted withdrawal from paxil, but now am back to enjoying life with enthusiasm to the max, some residual physical symptoms continued but largely improve. The horror, severe derealization, anhedonia, akathisia, and so much more, are long over.

 

My signature is a temporary scribble from year 2013. I'll rewrite it when I can.

 

If you want to read it, click on http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/209-brandy-anyone/?p=110343

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Hello,

@Giak- I want to thank you for the link to the article "The Long Shadow of Massacre". I scanned it briefly and it appears very deep to me - today I have a cold and my mind is mush, but I'm going to print it out for later reading at some depth. I think there's a lot to it.

and

 

@Dalsaan-

re "We had new gun control legislation and a buy back scheme after a massacre here in 1996. Haven't had one since then"

I have heard this point made often, and not saying it isn't valid. But I wonder - before this '96 massacre, how many did you have? The US seems to have more of these than any other country.

I also wonder if the Pharmaceutical Industry has as much of a strangle-hold in your country as it does in the US.

Don't get me wrong - I am not against gun control- I just don't think that is the complete answer.

 

ellen

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I do urge people to be very careful about assuming that all shootings are linked to SSRIs.

 

As an VA resident, I have long suspected that the VA tech shooting had nothing to do with the shooter being on an SSRI. There were just too many other circumstances in his life that seemed to be the key to his downfall.

 

Interestingly, on the Psych med alternatives facebook page, a person by the name of Diane Engster who I met by the way before she moved to Florida, said that Cho had selective mutism (that had been reported in the newspaper) which led to him being shamed and shunned. Many people misinterpreted his behavior as being hostile, including when he wore sunglasses.

 

And at some point, he was committed a care team, which I assume is outpatient mental health, which apparently was quite judgmental and didn't attempt to understand this disability.

 

Here is the facebook link:

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/209482705738243/

 

CS

 

PS - I wanted to add if you scroll further down, there is a link to a PDF report on the mental health history of Cho and a good discussion of the situation.

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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CS,

 

The Va Tech case is so convoluted and demonstrates the many places the system can fail. I think he was first diagnosed with Selective Mutism at 8 yo..? I believe he was treated pharmacologically as a child and SSRIs are/were used commonly then, but i don't know for certain.

 

My theory, based on reading a bit about the violence over the years, is that many/most people *look* depressed when they first go to or are taken to doctor. Bipolar (the few true ones) don't go to doc in manic phase or when they're feeling high or energetic. True schizophrenics often present in withdrawn state ("negative/deficit symptoms") and not because they are having hallucinations and delusions ("positive or ___?___ symptoms". Forgetting the new term.)

EXCEPT IN EMERGENCY or FORENSIC CASES, of course.

 

On an outpatient basis, docs often use an SSRI first because they are still perceived to be the safest psychotropic for what *looks like* some variation of depression or anxiety.

All sorts of problems are created at that first juncture including mania and psychosis being triggered. Note that i am NOT saying "unmasked" or "underlying disorder"!

 

As more SSRIs have been written, business has increased for all other classes of psychotropics - mood stabilizers/anticonvulsants/lithium, neuroleptics. And benzos, of course. I recently saw that a new formulation of Xanax or Ativan is available, so someone is taking advantage of that opportunity (or "market need". Sick!).

 

I'm not claiming that this is what happened with Cho, the VA TECH shooter, but i think.it would be unusual if he was NOT tried on an SSRI at some point since childhood.

 

You make a good point that there were many factors and conditions involved and blame cannot be placed on SSRIs alone. I apologize if i implied that in earlier message.

 

My own temper and anger outbursts during withdrawal have made me acutely aware of the power of these drugs to cause personality changes. Not surprising that most of the shooters are d?scribed as quiet, shy, introverted. It's disturbing to think that introversion will be pathologized rather than understood, nurtured, and accepted for its positive qualities.

 

From another thread today:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1802-what-we-have-in-common-aside-from-ads/page__pid__39693__st__20#entry39693

In Elizabeth Drews’ (1972) words, “Our children are taught to don masks before they recognize their own faces. They are made to put their tender, pliable forms into prefabricated shells” (p. 3). Trying to fit in at the expense of the Self leads many gifted people to feel like aliens from a different planet (Wallach, 1995).

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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  • Moderator Emeritus

 

@Dalsaan-

re "We had new gun control legislation and a buy back scheme after a massacre here in 1996. Haven't had one since then"

I have heard this point made often, and not saying it isn't valid. But I wonder - before this '96 massacre, how many did you have? The US seems to have more of these than any other country.

I also wonder if the Pharmaceutical Industry has as much of a strangle-hold in your country as it does in the US.

Don't get me wrong - I am not against gun control- I just don't think that is the complete answer.

 

ellen

 

I don't think gun control is the complete answer either but I think it's a great start, particularly if you have many more guns than any other country. Australia didn't have anywhere near as many guns as the US but it has a lot less now.

Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

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CS,

 

The Va Tech case is so convoluted and demonstrates the many places the system can fail. I think he was first diagnosed with Selective Mutism at 8 yo..? I believe he was treated pharmacologically as a child and SSRIs are/were used commonly then, but i don't know for certain.

 

My theory, based on reading a bit about the violence over the years, is that many/most people *look* depressed when they first go to or are taken to doctor. Bipolar (the few true ones) don't go to doc in manic phase or when they're feeling high or energetic. True schizophrenics often present in withdrawn state ("negative/deficit symptoms") and not because they are having hallucinations and delusions ("positive or ___?___ symptoms". Forgetting the new term.)

EXCEPT IN EMERGENCY or FORENSIC CASES, of course.

 

On an outpatient basis, docs often use an SSRI first because they are still perceived to be the safest psychotropic for what *looks like* some variation of depression or anxiety.

All sorts of problems are created at that first juncture including mania and psychosis being triggered. Note that i am NOT saying "unmasked" or "underlying disorder"!

 

As more SSRIs have been written, business has increased for all other classes of psychotropics - mood stabilizers/anticonvulsants/lithium, neuroleptics. And benzos, of course. I recently saw that a new formulation of Xanax or Ativan is available, so someone is taking advantage of that opportunity (or "market need". Sick!).

 

I'm not claiming that this is what happened with Cho, the VA TECH shooter, but i think.it would be unusual if he was NOT tried on an SSRI at some point since childhood.

 

You make a good point that there were many factors and conditions involved and blame cannot be placed on SSRIs alone. I apologize if i implied that in earlier message.

 

My own temper and anger outbursts during withdrawal have made me acutely aware of the power of these drugs to cause personality changes. Not surprising that most of the shooters are d?scribed as quiet, shy, introverted. It's disturbing to think that introversion will be pathologized rather than understood, nurtured, and accepted for its positive qualities.

 

From another thread today:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1802-what-we-have-in-common-aside-from-ads/page__pid__39693__st__20#entry39693

In Elizabeth Drews’ (1972) words, “Our children are taught to don masks before they recognize their own faces. They are made to put their tender, pliable forms into prefabricated shells” (p. 3). Trying to fit in at the expense of the Self leads many gifted people to feel like aliens from a different planet (Wallach, 1995).

 

Hi Barb,

 

I definitely didn't mean to imply you were solely blaming meds.

 

I am just concerned that if we automatically focus on meds as the main issue (I am guilty as heck of this), we will be overlooking some critical things that need to be reformed. For example, let's take autism in general which Lanza allegedly had (we still don't know for sure).

 

Why, why, are we not taking advantage of the brilliant computer skills that people with Lanza had? Personally, I would rather deal with people like this who may be clueless socially but who would know in a heartbeat what was wrong my computer and technology equipment. Instead I get a boiler plate Kindle minion from Amazon who is clueless about why I can't access a particular folder on my computer. Fortunately, I figured it out after terminating the call but I shudder to think of all the people who called that this person couldn't help.

 

Temple Grandin talks about this on her website in saying it is high time that we find jobs for people with autism instead of janitor jobs because of their poor social skills.

 

So maybe when you have kids like Lanza, to prevent them from even seeing a sniff of an SSRI, start focusing on what they do well instead of how incompetent they are socially and how they don't fit into society. I am not saying this would prevent crime but it sure couldn't hurt to try.

 

I guess after all my rambling Barb is I am concerned if we just focus on meds, we're no better than the clowns who think more forced treatment is the answer, particularly if we don't provide the tools so that future Lanzas of the world can thrive instead of becoming potential killers.

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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Hi Barb,

 

I definitely feel your pain.

 

I don't have AS but definitely have similar type issues. What pains me is if someone had sat down with me to focus on what I did well, I am positive I would have avoided psych meds.

 

I think that at why I wrote what I did previously.

 

CS

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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Absolutely agree 100%, CS! Our education system is targeted to average individuals with no time or resources for those who fall outside the *normal* range. It's a shame to think of the kids who fall through the cracks and have abilities that are never recognized or nurtured. I know someone who was in remedial classes in grade school (1970s). Later, he tested with IQ in genius range. I'm sure he's on the autism spectrum somewhere.

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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  • 1 month later...

There's an intersection between right-wing or libertarian thinking and those opposed to psychiatric drugging. Strange bedfellows.

 

Shootings committed by youth on psychiatric drugs are only a tiny percentage of all deaths by gunshot in the U.S.

 

While I believe psychiatric drugs can be bad for youths and all living creatures, causing adverse effects leading to self-destructive and violent acts, to reduce gun deaths, I would very strictly limit the possession of firearms.

 

Certainly automatic and semi-automatic weapons, which enable mass killings, are not needed by ordinary citizens.

 

For 175 years, the "right to bear arms" in the U.S. Bill of Rights was interpreted to apply to state militias. It was only in the 1950s, with the rise of the NRA gun lobby, that it was interpreted to mean personal possession of firearms.

 

Amendment II

 

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

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