success ☼ Brassmonkey: Talking about myself

[brassmonkey]

No worries Nick, it's just a few very interesting posts, not a hijack.  I'm in the process of establishing a dedicated thread for the subject to discuss the "post "0"" experience so we can learn more about it and work out some strategies for coping with it.  Also it will be a place for mutual support of those going through the experience.  As Nick pointed out so well there are two divergent paths that need to be addressed as the experiences of the people who have slow tapered and those who have CTed/fast tapered are proving to be quite different.

 

Andy and Jackie, that's a lot of good information, thinking and discussion.  It's going to take me a while to plow through it all.  It shows that this is a subject that really needed to be broached. 

[MollyN]

I'm delighted to hear from you caperjackie. I would love it if even more people could come back and post when they are years out. People like you can offer a wide perspective, I really appreciate that. I like the idea of a Post Zero thread brass.

 

My thoughts humbly submitted

 

I'm not especially comfortable with this talk of the 'right' way and 'wrong way'. Adding judgement onto situations and choices doesn't seem to add much. 

 

For me at least this site doesn't seem to make any promises that if we do things the  'right' way, we'll be ok for the rest of our days.  It seems to me, primarily about harm minimisation during withdrawal, but also importantly, learning an attitude of self-reliance and self-care. That as individuals, we are personally empowered to deal with life's inevitable struggles, both internal and external. But the struggle is still real. From our drug use we learnt that there was no such thing as a 'free lunch'. We have to be the ones that bring ourselves back to health, but that's not easy and I'd imagine it will be lifelong.

 

I'm concerned that someone who we considered did things the 'right' way may find it very difficult to come back and re-engage, if,  in future, they were struggling since they might mistakenly feel like they were endangering the ethos of the site. Then they would be struggling alone, and I for one would hate that to be the case. 

 

 

 

xxxmollyn

[nick1990]

Sorry Molly, i didn't meen to bring about uncomfortable feelings, i was more just trying to point out that on this forum, maybe we should have a couple of different threads on "Post 0" experiences. One for CT/Fast Tapers, and one for gradual tapers. And only for the purpose of not mixing the two together and having a whole bunch of confusion. As i think for the most part there will be two very different categories of symptoms and healing processes.  HOWEVER, i think for the most part, the long term result of full healing exists for both parties.

[myndfull]

I'd like to express my interest in such a thread, too, the one Brass mentioned for the "Post 0" experiences of long-time/term taperers, and the one Nick says is needed for the "Post 0" experiences of shorter term/CT withdrawers.

 

I'm getting ready to jump to zero next year myself and lately I've used the site almost exclusively to find as much information as I can on what that end-term experience has been for others.  

 

Myndfull

[RachelSusan]

Brassmonkey,

If you are able to establish that thread for the post zero people it would be marvelous. Thank you in advance for anything you are able to do in that direction.

RS

[manymoretodays]

 

 

7 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

No worries Nick, it's just a few very interesting posts, not a hijack.  I'm in the process of establishing a dedicated thread for the subject to discuss the "post "0"" experience so we can learn more about it and work out some strategies for coping with it.  Also it will be a place for mutual support of those going through the experience. 

 

Andy and Jackie, that's a lot of good information, thinking and discussion.  It's going to take me a while to plow through it all.  It shows that this is a subject that really needed to be broached. 

 

3 hours ago, myndfull said:

I'd like to express my interest in such a thread, too, the one Brass mentioned for the "Post 0" experiences of long-time/term taperers, and the one Nick says is needed for the "Post 0" experiences of shorter term/CT withdrawers.

 

I'm getting ready to jump to zero next year myself and lately I've used the site almost exclusively to find as much information as I can on what that end-term experience has been for others.  

 

Myndfull

 

Hi brass!  Yes, very interesting posts....... 

As for the post "0" experience...........yes, let's work out some more strategies for coping with it.  You are a good organizer of thoughts!  "As Nick pointed out so well there are two divergent paths that need to be addressed as the experiences of the people who have slow tapered and those who have CTed/fast tapered are proving to be quite different."  I agree with this statement........yes sometimes, but not always.  Many tapering now have indeed CTed another medication/drug sometime earlier, like me, or same thing .........followed a Dr.'s  instructions.  So then........we have the 3rd or 4th group still recovering/healing from a CT(in some respects) while tapering???  Does that make sense?   Maybe just a 3rd group.  Or one group encompassing us all who are post "0". 

 

Oh and keep it all as positive and upbeat as possible.  Yet realistic?

 

It'll be interesting and useful for a lot of us any way you choose to do it.  I do need support now and comradeship yet feel that because I am off all drugs now that it's not the same as for those still tapering.......maybe that's just me.  And still not quite ready or should I say I don't yet feel like the success off of drugs/meds. ...........yet.........so not ready to go into "success story" mode.  Done with psychiatrists though!!

 

Myndfull,  I like your comment too.  I do, however, think that it's not so cut and dried as to what to expect for any of us.  Yet, a positive attitude and fearlessness is necessary.   I mean expect the best or at least get a firm belief going that you can deal with whatever comes down the pipeline..........with a little help from your friends here and maybe a few locally.

 

Idk.......will follow........velly interesting.........Love you all,

 

Peace, recovery/healing, growth and neuroplasticity at any age.......darnit!!!!!!!!!(I'll update soon on my own thread as it's been a tougher couple of months here)

 

manymoretodays

 

 

[aberdeen]

On 10/2/2017 at 2:46 PM, brassmonkey said:

I started my taper six years ago last week, enough all ready.  I've put in the time and just want it over with. (vent, rant, rave)  Now that my head is clearing for extended periods of time I can look back and realize the enormity of what has happened over the past years and the years leading up to the taper.  It's totally boggling.  Finally I can start to let down and let it all seep in and work through it a little bit at a time.  I can realize what I've accomplished, not just the WD but in life while the WD was happening.  I'm very upset that I went through it, but at the same time very pleased that I have prevailed, or rather that I am prevailing and will recover in the end.

THIS

I am experiencing very similar things. It has been 16 months since I finished a slow taper that began in October 2011 (after a year of CT wd and various med switches) I am healing very well, with the odd wave of depression and anxiety, very mild compared to before though (and possibly hormonal at 45 years old and being female).

 

But underneath is a psychological healing as well. Emotionally coming to terms with the years I lost while raising my children, the opportunities I couldnt take part in, the loss in confidence and sense of self. I dont think we realize, the damage it does emotionally to us at the time because we're trying to keep our nose above the waves of symptoms....but then once we get some distance and look at it from far away we see the magnitude of the entire experience. I think there will be a period of repair where we have to learn again to get out in the world, be a friend again, be social, take risks, plan for the future, enjoy and love people and places and sensations, and just "be" again, its been so long. The storm is over and now we need to assess the damage and rebuild on many levels. I'm grateful to even be at this point honestly. Its harder than i thought, in part because life itself changes in that many years so we can't just "go back" like I planned on  doing for the first 2 or 3 years. Its about starting new and going from the bottom up, Which as it turns out is an opportunity to get rid of a lot of things we don't need anymore. It's a good place to be!

[Prestorb]

It's really nice to hear from some of the post zero folks. I am one myself now, but only six months out and still struggling but in different ways then before. Like Aberdeen, I am female and 49 and most definitely in the menopausal transition with hot flashes and poor sleep and mood swings. So it's really hard to tease out which symptoms are from THAT and which are from withdrawal at this point. I am certain that withdrawal is making the menopausal transition a lot more difficult than it would be otherwise. But I keep trying to put one foot in front on the other, take one day at a time, eat healthy (no caffeine or alcohol), exercise moderately, take my supplements, socialize more than I "feel" like, and just try to stay positive. The last one is the hardest, I get down on myself and beat myself up, etc... and frankly, I just don't like myself much right now. But I think that is all part of the process, part of why I took the stupid meds in the first place! And maybe also part of the mid-life transition. I totally agree with what Aberdeen said about the time and opportunities missed and how we kind of have to grieve that before we can really move on, and it's not a quick process. I took ADs for just over 12 years and my son wasn't even 2 years old when I started and now he's a teenager. I haven't been and am not the mom that I would like to be. It is what it is, I have to try to make the best of it and learn from the process. I am very fortunate to have a supportive and understanding husband, I wouldn't have made it this far without him.

[brassmonkey]

It's been a while since my last update.  Things have been quite busy around here getting ready for the Haunt.  We open this Saturday and are looking pretty good, only a few little details to take care of.  The heat and physical work has left me really wiped out, very tired and sore.  A little rest will fix that up, but my reserves are quite low ATM so I have to be careful about pushing too hard (yea, right).  The biggest problem has been the inner anxiety for the past several weeks.  The WDs have  my "fight or flight" revved into high gear for most of the day, and ther are a lot of things that try to compound the feelings.  There's nothing that can be done except accept the feelings and go on in spite of them.  Some relaxation exercises do help, but they only take the edge off. Also it seems to be coming in waves so it's very unpredictable from hour to hour how I'll feel.  It takes a lot of energy that I'd rather be putting else where.

[nick1990]

Sorry to hear about the anxiety Brass. You know, as well as anyone else here, its just a wave and you'll be stronger and feeling better once this wave has cleared. 

Other than the anxiety and fatigue, how have you felt since taking NO paxil? Do you have a clearness of mind or a lift in brain fog , dp/dr? 

Just really interested to know. 

 

All the best bro!

[brassmonkey]

Hey Nick-- After a while your practiced responses kick in and it actually takes several days to figure out that you're having trouble again. Bad that you've had that much practice, good in that it works.  The fatigue has been on going since I stopped the drugs.  It has been improving, but I've been way over doing things the past few weeks so it's catching up with me. You wouldn't know anything about that sort of thing.    The clarity of thinking and brain fog come and go with the waves but are on a clearing path.  This wave started up about a month ago and feels like it's starting to wind down.

 

More in a bit, gots to run.

[Dee80]

Hi Tom, I have followed your withdrawal story for a long time and we chatted a couple of times on PP. I am so glad that you have gotten off Paxil successfully even though you are still struggling with some anxiety and fatigue. You really have inspired me along my own journey. I wanted to ask you a quick question about your final cuts. I, myself, have got down to 0.4 mg Paxil after a 5 year wean. I am struggling with these minute cuts and was considering changing to dissolving tablets to make a liquid.  You said in one of your posts that changing to liquid at .32 was not an option for you. Were you worried it would have a negative effect? I just don't want to make any mistakes when I'm so close. Like you my aim was to jump off at 1mg but thought I should try to go as low as possible. Thanks for any advise you can give😊

[bhasski]

Hi Brassmonkey,

I have read you here since I joined and known you as a success story which every one look upto.

 

Your methods help people and I am hoping to get some advice from you.

 

I have a polydrug history of 2.5 yrs from which paxil  and trileptal (generic) played the longest part.

 

Also I am CT almost 20 months off them.. But cannot laugh, smile , sudden outbursts, memory, disconnected from.old slelf.

 

 

Will I get my emotion and memory back ? 

I have lost 2 yrs off them and 2.5 yrs of drugged career 

 

 

 

[brassmonkey]

Hi bhasski--  I'm sorry to hear that you're still having trouble with the WD symptoms.  Doing a CT is a rough way to go, especially if there are several drugs involved.  Things eventually do normalize though.  The first couple of years tend to be the roughest, then the improvements are more readily seen.  Many people who have CTed see great improvements in the third year. It's best to pay attention to your WDnormal baseline to chart your progress and not obsess over day to day fluctuations.  Try not to worry, you'll get there.

[brassmonkey]

Hi Dee-- I remember seeing you back at Prior Place.  Congratulations on making it down to 0.4mg.  You're so close to the end it's wonderful.  Taking five years to get there seems like a long time, but it will really pay off in the end.  There were a couple of reasons I didn't want to switch to the liquid. First I'm a stubborn old goat who's set in his ways (I really didn't want to be bothered with getting the new equipment and changing methods when I had the old way down pat.)  I was doing a lot of international travel so carrying a few pills was a lot easier than all the stuff needed for the liquid. Weighing out the small doses wad a pain, but once I had made up a hand full of pills it was a lot easier to store and carry.  I had a slight worry that changing the delivery system might throw thing off also.  Some people have trouble switching to the liquid and I didn't want to mess with success.  I don't see a problem with switching, but it didn't make sense for me.

 

Best of luck which every way you go, and keep us posted.  I'm so excited that you're almost done.

[brassmonkey]

We had our opening night for the Haunted House on Saturday and it was a real success.  The crowd was fairly small as we had expected, but everyone had a great time.  A one point two police cars drove up in front of the house. Ended up that they were out chasing down noisy parties, but wanted to stop by and make sure everything was going smoothly.  They know us by reputation and really like what we are doing.   There were a few technical problems that cropped up which gave us something to do on Sunday.  Now everything is repaired and running properly and we are all set for the big crowd to arrive tomorrow.  We managed to have a couple of easy days in a row so I catching up on my rest.  We have the big show tomorrow, then have to start taking it all down.  Monica and I are going out of town in a couple of weeks and need to have the yard cleared and everything secured before we go.

[Dee80]

Thanks for the reply Tom. It has been a long haul as you know yourself but once bitten and all that😀I might just struggle on with the tiny cuts too. I was tempted to move to the liquid in case I wasn't getting precise enough measurements but hopefully at this stage it won't matter too much if I am a little off. 

I certainly hope to be back with a success story after I reach zero. Reading stories about people getting off and staying off Paxil has really helped me so I hope to do the same for others in the not too distant future. Thanks again. Take care. 

[AmyK]

Good luck with the show, Tom!

 

Dee, I just wanted to share how I did in the end. I weighed, and then titrated the small pill in water and used a syringe to lower the amount. I got down to below 0.01 mg this way. Best of luck! 

[kitschywoman]

As someone who tried to move to the liquid, I can say it was an epic fail in my case.  Mainly because the liquid was name-brand Zoloft, not my usual generic Sertraline from Lupin.  The Zoloft seemed to pack a lot more punch, and I was only on it for 3 days because I could see the writing on the wall (had start-up symptoms like I was switching to a new drug).  So I went back to my generic tablets, experimented a bit, and found they dissolved and suspended wonderfully in water.  So I have been tapering ever since on a dose that is part tablet and part home-made liquid.  I am now down to 31.7mg from my starting point of 75mg back in July of 2016.

[aberdeen]

Hope your halloween went well Brass. We saw some good projects in our travels with the kids, some people really went all out, its fun to see. 

I was reading through this thread and wanted to reassure people that while some people who have left the forum for a time may not feel they have recovered, I know of a handful who do call themselves a complete success and recovery and don't post here because it's in their past, and some never started posting on SA to begin with and so never posted a recovery story. But they are healed and doing just fine. Apart from my hormonal stuff, I consider myself a success as well, save for mild anhedonia and lack of motivation, which could be caused by many factors at this point for me, besides wd. Even those areas are hugely improved. I was a CT/slow taper combo. I jumped off high Effexor doses and ended up on Paxil to help, which if it did, it was minimal at best. I suffered horribly the first 2 years (see signature).  I tapered the Paxil over 5 years and am med free for almost 18 months now. Have hope!

[apace41]

Thanks for the very positive and encouraging post, Aberdeen!

 

Tom -- any chance you will post some pix of the Haunt?

 

Best,

 

Andy

[brassmonkey]

It's starting to catch on in other parts of the world Aberdeen. I belong to several face book groups that have a lot of members from Canada, so it's possible to see displays in a lot of places.

 

Thank you for the comments about "life after zero".  Eighteen months already, man it goes fast.  It's so good to hear that things are improving all the time.

 

I might be able to find a couple Andy.  I think I still owe pictures of Egypt and China too.  Guess I had better get it in gear.  We had two really good nights.  We hit almost the exact same attendance as we had last year 450 Saturday night and 865 on Halloween. Everything worked properly and the crowd had a really good time.  I'm taking a day or two to rest and then it all has to come down.  Everything in the yard first so we can secure things so we can leave town for Thanksgiving.  After that we will take some time and pack things away properly.

[Krasiyan]

brassmoneky does the gemini scale you use weight powder in the 1 and 2 mg range - I'l have to consider it, because anything below 5 mg for me is hard to cut.

 

Also your amazing ! So much time being Paxil free.

[brassmonkey]

We need to define if we are weighing 1mgpw(pill weight) or 1mgai(active ingredient).  Because of the AI to filler ratio it's pretty easy to weight out doses to less than 1mgai.  When it comes to weighting out small amounts of pill weight the gemini-20 tends to struggle.  I started having  inconsistent readings when I hit 4mgpw.  From there on down I would do visual divisions, so I would weigh out 4mgpw and divide it with a razor blade "coke style".  I'd make two equal piles for 2mgpw and four equal piles for 1mgpw.  Not the most accurate method, but my figuring was that the dose was small the difference didn't really matter.  This also leads to larger than 10% reduction, however that is going to happen at the end of a taper no matter what method you use.  You could be more exact using liquid, but figuring the new dilution each time, getting it mixed correctly and the minor inconsistencies of the suspension all come into play on that small a dose and that shoots your accuracy.

 

Pay close attention to your scale usage techniques; solid work surface, no drafts, use the calibration weight during the measuring (hit tare to reset the zero) and work with a very finely ground powder.

[bromor]

On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 1:15 PM, brassmonkey said:

No worries Nick, it's just a few very interesting posts, not a hijack.  I'm in the process of establishing a dedicated thread for the subject to discuss the "post "0"" experience so we can learn more about it and work out some strategies for coping with it.  Also it will be a place for mutual support of those going through the experience.  As Nick pointed out so well there are two divergent paths that need to be addressed as the experiences of the people who have slow tapered and those who have CTed/fast tapered are proving to be quite different.

 

Andy and Jackie, that's a lot of good information, thinking and discussion.  It's going to take me a while to plow through it all.  It shows that this is a subject that really needed to be broached. 

I'm very happy to read this!!  I'm now 1 month off of Zoloft & it does kind of feel like a "no man's land" at times.  Yes, I still have some symptoms but nothing...nothing like when I cold turkey'd off of Zoloft.  I definitely have to use my stop/choose/DARE/float ect strategies to deal with the residual anxiety symptoms. I'm a firm believer that my brain can and is healing... 

 

Guess I'll check in a bit more often.  

[brassmonkey]

After being stored in the family room for a year and three weeks the new refrigerator has been installed, except for the ice maker.  We can't find the hook up kit in all the chaos of the haunt so will have to get another one. I'm posting this from my laptop, but if I was so inclined I could post from the refrigerator.  It can surf the net and talk to me on my cell phone.  If I'm at the store and can't remember if I need butter, I can call it up and it will show me a picture of what's in it.  Monica and I are beyond jazzed.  Getting that big visual block out of the family room is really great too.  Now we can see the full impact of the remodel.   There are still a few small things to do, but it's 98% complete.

 

Finished taking down the front yard stuff from the haunt and have it all stashed in the garage and storage shed.  We can close the garage door for the first time in three months.  Everything is secure so we can leave town on Tuesday.  Going to Ohio to stay with family for Thanksgiving.

[manymoretodays]

That's great brassmonkey.  Weird about the posting from the fridge though and all that connectivity.  I shall call you George Jetson..........you do remember the Jetson's, right?  I'm more the rustic type by necessity and I don't mind.  Probably hard to find a new fridge without bells and whistles so glad you guys are excited too!

 

Must be so nice to finally have your redo done.

 

Happy gratitude month and travels!

 

mmt

[Frogie]

20 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

After being stored in the family room for a year and three weeks the new refrigerator has been installed, except for the ice maker.  We can't find the hook up kit in all the chaos of the haunt so will have to get another one. I'm posting this from my laptop, but if I was so inclined I could post from the refrigerator.  It can surf the net and talk to me on my cell phone.  If I'm at the store and can't remember if I need butter, I can call it up and it will show me a picture of what's in it.  Monica and I are beyond jazzed.  Getting that big visual block out of the family room is really great too.  Now we can see the full impact of the remodel.   There are still a few small things to do, but it's 98% complete.

 

Finished taking down the front yard stuff from the haunt and have it all stashed in the garage and storage shed.  We can close the garage door for the first time in three months.  Everything is secure so we can leave town on Tuesday.  Going to Ohio to stay with family for Thanksgiving.

If you are anything like me Tom, as soon as you buy the new kit you will find the one you already had lol...

 

Wow what a fridge. To be able to basically talk to it. How technology works is amazing.

 

Would love to see some pictures of the haunt and China is it?

 

Have a wonderful family time on Thanksgiving.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[brassmonkey]

Leaving for the airport in about two and a half hours.  Off for two weeks enforced relaxation with the in laws waiting on me hand and foot. (yea I wish).  It should be a pretty laid back time, we have a great hotel with a pool that we've been to before.  Lots of family we get along great with and probably some snow (nice to visit but I don't want to live with it any more).  While packing I really noticed that I'm hardly taking any meds with me.  Our last trip I had a separate carry bag just for all that stuff.  The things for the chest problems took up a lot of room, but don't need them any more so they don't get to go. 

[Frogie]

2 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

Leaving for the airport in about two and a half hours.  Off for two weeks enforced relaxation with the in laws waiting on me hand and foot. (yea I wish).  It should be a pretty laid back time, we have a great hotel with a pool that we've been to before.  Lots of family we get along great with and probably some snow (nice to visit but I don't want to live with it any more).  While packing I really noticed that I'm hardly taking any meds with me.  Our last trip I had a separate carry bag just for all that stuff.  The things for the chest problems took up a lot of room, but don't need them any more so they don't get to go. 

Have a great time!

 

I wish we would get some snow. It's November and 70 degrees, just not right.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[brassmonkey]

Got home yesterday evening. We had a wonderful time visiting family for Thanksgiving, catching up with everyone and enjoying  some weather that wasn't just plain hot.  Even got a trace of snow one day.  Things have cooled off a lot here at home, I even had to turn on the heater this morning.  Now we will take a day or two to unwind from traveling and then back to playing with projects around the house.  I came up with some fun ideas for Haunt related projects while on the trip and will start looking into them as I get a chance.  I hope everyone had a good holiday.

[apace41]

21 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

We had a wonderful time

 

That's great to hear, Tom.

 

Most importantly, how are you feeling through it all?

Best,

 

Andy

[brassmonkey]

Hey Andy-- very relaxed and rested. I had one day of slightly increased anxiety but that was because I had a restless night because I was very sore from swimming.  The hotel has a great pool and I tried to go every day, but pushed it a bit too hard and payed for it.  Also had some nightmares one night that didn't help matters.  But other than that, smooth sailing.  The flight home had some loud and obnoxious people which was unpleasant but not too upsetting.  I'm also very glad to be back to my nice soft foam bed, the one at the hotel was just plain too hard.

[apace41]

Without putting words in your mouth, Tom, sounds like you had an experience that was for the most part similar to someone who had never been on the drugs?

Best,

 

Andy

[street129]

On 11/14/2017 at 7:48 PM, Frogie said:

Have a great time!

 

I wish we would get some snow. It's November and 70 degrees, just not right.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

hi frogie ,

 

i updose back to my orginial dose of 250mg couple days ago...nothing has change as yet.

 

i was taking fish oil but it was making me sicker and also b12 injection from a compound pharmacy that i been taking  for my chronic fatigue syndrome for many years, but its not helping me right now since im tapering. 

 

im comfortable going back to 250mg on this poision,  i will stay here @my original dose  ..and hope god will see me through this and to start feeling better. hope you are doing great.

[brassmonkey]

In a lot of ways you'd be pretty close Andy. I still can get a good bit of cog fog once in a while, the short term memory is still shot and I can have real trouble finding words during conversations. Some of this is left overs from the AD usage, but I may have to face the fact that I'm no longer a teenager and have to start dealing with the results of a "lifetime of experiences".  There's still a good deal of sorting out and un/re learning things from the past 20 years odd years when my mind was altered, but I'm facing that with a fairly clear head.