Calcium

[Altostrata]

Post in this topic.

[alexjuice]

I think I have been suffering from calcium deficiency due to my abnormal diet. Over the past week or two I've developed coldness and loss of feeling in the hands and feet. Last night I had a bit too much coffee started cramping in the shoulders and back so I drank a lot of water to rehydrate and also took in some sodium & potassium.

 

After a little caffeine this morning, pain the hip bones returned and numbness/coldness in extremities got quite intense. My feet and toes have been locking in cramps and I've had more trouble feeling my fingers and whatnot. After googling and looking through my notes, I see I've been extremely deficient in high calcium foods for a while now. And that cramps and numbness/coldness in hands/feet is the defining symptom of insufficient calcium. Guess my body might have borrowed some from my hip bones and that's why they started to ache...?

 

It's just one thing after another.

 

Evidently it is important to take calcium with Vit D. Aaaaaaaaaa. I'm just tired of this nonsense. I do the best I can.

 

Anyone rec a calcium supp?

 

Thanks,

Alex

[Altostrata]

I get a supplement called Calcium Citrate and Maleate (CCM, from Source Naturals). These forms are supposed to be better absorbed.

 

What about magnesium, alex? Can you take that? It's good for muscle cramps. Also, assists in bowel movements. Start with 50mg mag citrate.

 

Calcium and magnesium are good for bone health.

[Barbarannamated]

I think there's a calcium:phosphorus interaction, too. Everything effects everything else.

[Nadia]

Calcium citrate for sure! Better absorbed and it won't give you gas like calcium carbonate. I'm also taking magnesium on a regular basis, which I think is important for calcium along with the D3. I can't get magnesium citrate where I live, but I can get magnesium chloride crystals to dissolve in water (100mg in 3 liters of water), and my stomach handles it just fine. My dad, who is in his 70s and has always suffered from depression, takes a shot glass of the magnesium chloride solution twice a day, and my mom says after about a month or two of taking it she noticed his mood really improved.

 

This person suggests a 2 to 1 magnesium to calcium ratio:

 

http://blog.seattlepi.com/naturalnotes/2009/09/01/magnesium-and-calcium-arent-always-the-best-of-friends/

 

She also says that it's best to take calcium in the morning and magnesium at night (hmmm... I was doing that instinctively).

 

The RDA for adult magnesium intake is between 270 mg – 400 mg.

 

As RDA is a minimum intake level, I generally suggest about twice that amount from all sources.

 

If you look at plants and babies you notice their high degree of flexibility. This comes from a higher magnesium and lower calcium level, 3 or 4 to 1.

 

For this reason I have suggested for years a 2-to-1 ratio of magnesium to calcium which is not commonly used. This was the common recommendation from biochemists in the 1940s-1960s.

 

Calcium should be taken during the day. Magnesium is best taken at bedtime for better utilization and better sleep. The reason for this is that calcium is antagonistic towards magnesium, as they act biochemically to cancel each other out.

 

I had not heard about this "cancelling each other out"... anyone heard of that?

[Nadia]

More on calcium/magnesium ratios from K. Sharma, Ph.D.:

 

http://www.enerex.ca/en/articles/calcium-to-magnesium-ratio

 

Because of the metabolic antagonism between magnesium and calcium, the ratio between these two minerals in the drinking water is of considerable significance. In a survey of 25 U.S. cities, the lowest death rates from coronary disease were found in areas where the drinking waters supplied more magnesium and less calcium than the U.S. average (24).

 

Australia has the highest cardiovascular death-rate in the world and also consumes some of the worlds softest drinking waters (60). On the other hand, the Western region of Texas has the hardest drinking waters and the lowest cardiovascular mortality rates in the United States (25).

 

Also, some good info here from Nan Kathryn Fuchs, Ph.D.: http://www.mgwater.com/calmagab.shtml

 

One of the most popular minerals in the news today is calcium, needed for strong bones and teeth. We are told to take increased amounts in our diet as a supplement to prevent osteoporosis and eliminate muscle cramping during menstruation or from over-exercising. Yet, calcium alone is often not enough. Without magnesium, calcium may be not fully utilized, and underabsorption problems may occur leading to arthritis, osteoporosis, menstrual cramps, and some premenstrual symptoms.

 

Perhaps the single most significant reason calcium malabsorption is so common today is due to a discrepancy between what we eat and how we digest and absorb the nutrients in our food. Our diets today are very different from those of our ancestors though our bodies remain similar.

 

Thousands of years ago, our ancestors ate foods high in magnesium and low in calcium. Because calcium supplies were scarce and the need for this vital mineral was great, it was effectively stored by the body. Magnesium, on the other hand, was abundant and readily available, in the form of nuts, seeds, grains, and vegetables, and did not need to be stored internally.

 

Our bodies still retain calcium and not magnesium although we tend to eat much more dairy than our ancestors. In addition, our sugar and alcohol consumption is higher than theirs, and both sugar and alcohol increase magnesium excretion through the urine. Our grains, originally high in magnesium, have been refined, which means that the nutrient is lost in the refining process. The quality of our soil has deteriorated as well, due to the use of fertilizers that contain large amounts of potassium a magnesium antagonist. This results in foods lower in magnesium than ever before. [...]

 

Because magnesium suppresses PTH and stimulates calcitonin it helps put calcium into our bones, preventing osteoporosis, and helps remove it from our soft tissues eliminating some forms of arthritis. A magnesium deficiency will prevent this chemical action from taking place in our bodies, and no amount of calcium can correct it. While magnesium helps our body absorb and retain calcium, too much calcium prevents magnesium from being absorbed. So taking large amounts of calcium without adequate magnesium may either create malabsorption or a magnesium deficiency. Whichever occurs, only magnesium can break the cycle.

It's worth reading the whole second link... apparently a calcium deficiency can often be "fixed" not by adding more calcium, but by increasing magnesium intake.

[Barbarannamated]

That was certainly circuitous. Thanks for the bullet point!

[alexjuice]

Thanks for the reply. One problem is that mag supplements literally make me sick. I can tolerate only tiny amounts and not day after day. I have gelatin caps and I've filled them with about 10mg magnesium which seems to be the most I can tolerate. Even then I wake up pretty hung over. Mag is sorta like alcohol to me. 25mgplus gives me a drunk stupor kind of feel.

 

I suppose I could double down on spinach. Any thing else? Maybe eat more nuts? I like brazil nuts cause they are loaded wi selenium which seems good for my prostate.

 

I am all twisted up here. Also caffeine, coffee in particular, makes my problem way worse. I need to go back to coffee free diet, but this sucks bc I like coffee and I am pretty sure it helps several of my symptoms. For instance my digestion and bm's have been may better these last two months with some caffeine . Coffee has been in shown to affect gastric evacuation positively, speeding it up, it the majority of participants in one study.

 

Anyway, I will figure it out with a little help from my friends. That's how I get by.

 

Alex

[Altostrata]

When I had waves of withdrawal anxiety, I found mixing mag citrate powder in ice water and sipping it to be very calming.

 

For those of us coping with withdrawal, taking magnesium apart from calcium makes sense. Magnesium is "nature's calcium channel blocker," that's how it's calming. If calcium is competing for the calcium channel, magnesium can't do its calming work.

[alexjuice]

I am going to try a epsom salt bath and see how that goes. Taking mag in capsule form produced poor results. It really takes me out of it. I wake up very groggy, dizzy, etc even on very low doses.

 

I bought a bottle of 100mg mag citrate tablets... a five year supply, ha. Each pill can make me 10 days worth once I grind and then parcel into gel caps. But still after a few days, even at 10mg at night, I have to stop b/c I wake up feeling too poorly.

 

I've realized coffee makes my problems, with cramping particularly, a lot worse. So I'm dropping coffee, all caffeine to be safe. I did no caffeine from about May to Oct (with a few cheats) so I can do it again. Sucks, like I said, bc I'm a coffee lover... (Aren't we all?)

 

I think that eating an abnormal diet for several weeks (predominantly broths, chicken meat, ground beef, salmon, water, coffee, eggs, and a limited # of well-cooked veggies) has disrupted electrolyte balance. At least that would explain my issues with numbness/coldness/pain in hands and feet as well as cramping, particularly after consuming caffeine.

 

Has anyone had any of the commercial coconut water products? I am going to look into it. Naturally replenishes potassium and has a decent amount of the calcium, mag, phos, etc...

 

I swear, taking care of my condition -- one few people I know in real life actually believe exists -- is a near-full-time job. I've already lost so much time. I know there are many here who relate to lost time...

 

But, on the upside, I feel the best psychologically that I have ever felt, essentially. The physical should come around.

 

Alex

 

ps - Really cold tonight in the heart of texas. Also, lemme restate, I am flying by the seat of my pants. I am really lucky to have you guys. It's amazing (me + you all) are kicking the crap out of the whole of proper medicine at addressing my health needs. Let's drink to that. Metaphorically or with filtered water, o course. :-)

[Barbarannamated]

Cheers, Alex. Cold here, too. Stay warm. :-)

[alexjuice]

It's worth reading the whole second link... apparently a calcium deficiency can often be "fixed" not by adding more calcium, but by increasing magnesium intake.

 

Thanks for the info, Nadia. I am adding back in yogurt and leafy greens (spinach certainly) to address cal & mag.

 

Still trying to fgure out the best ways to supplement... as I said above... I think though that eating well and dropping caffeine will allow the problem to sort itself out fairly quickly.

 

Alex

[alexjuice]

Cheers, Alex. Cold here, too. Stay warm. :-)

 

Thanks Barb. I am excited. I haven't had a warm bath on a cold night in years. Then off to bed!

[Soso]

http://www.drlwilson.com/Articles/calcium.htm

[Karma]

This appears to be an opinion and although there are some references cited, they are not cited on some of his assertions which appear to be dubious. I would be cautious of following his guidance without further investigation.

 

FWIW - Karma

[Soso]

I am not asking anyone to follow him, this article about calcium not about withdrawal

Soso

[aza]

Have you seen this article? Calcium supplements

 

What do you think, have an opinion?

 

I've been taking Calmag supreme. Have you heard of it? calmag supreme

 

With the calcium in this supplement is this going to be a proglem? Will this much calcium interfere with the obsorption of the magnesium?

 

I like the calmag supreme its helps with sleep. I take it just before I go to bed. But don't want to take it if its a problem.

[Altostrata]

If it helps you, don't worry about it!

[aza]

Cheers, Alex. Cold here, too. Stay warm. :-)

 

Heres an other information resourse:

 

 

The Calcium Wars

[sunflower]

Has anyone ever tried Calcium Orotate during WD?

 

Thanks!

 

Sunflower

[MatGMax]

I haven't.

But I have been Brain washed by the 'magnesium has all the answers' group now ;-)

At least for the next two months till I find the new best thing !

Is it the calcium or the oratate you are after?

(Brain washing on)

If it is the oratate you are after then you could try magnesium oratate.

(Brain washing off).

[Altostrata]

Personally, unless you have a calcium deficiency, I believe taking calcium supplements doesn't do much for you, plus it competes with magnesium.

 

Magnesium is also good for bones. I would take magnesium rather than calcium.