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Histamine food intolerance

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Mort81

I am very confused on whether or not I am having heavy waves or a histamine reaction. Whether my waves are triggered by histamine. Im gonna try a lo histamine diet for a month and see what happens.

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btdt

 

 

Nonimmunologic Histamine Releasers - and - Other Degranulation Triggers2
Polymers Dextran Compound 48/80 Calcium ionophore A23187 Bacterial Toxins Snake venoms Biologic polypeptides Ascaris species Jellyfish Portuguese man-of-war Spines & hairs of Caterpillars Nettles Moths Foods Shellfish, Any fish not fresh Strawberries Egg Whites Tomatoe Nuts (peanuts, walnuts etc.) **Download our diet guideline. Chemicals & Drugs Aspirin Alcohol Opiates (Codeine,Morphine,Percocet/Oxy etc) NSAIDs (Non-steroidal anti-inflammatories: Advil,Motrin,etc) Polymyxin B sulfate Colistin sulfate Thiamine hydrochloride Tyramine Trimethaphan and Trimetaphan Tubocurarine chloride Quinine sulfate Papaverine Dipyridamole (Persantine) Iodine based radiographic dyes Scopolamine hydrochloride Gallamine triethiodide Neuromuscular blocking agents (all):eg.,
  • Dexamethonium
  • Gallamine triethiodide
Dextromethorphan (cough suppressant) Stilbamadine isethionate Chlortetracycline bisulfate Amphetamines Hydralazine hydrochloride Tolazoline hydrochloride Cinnamaldehyde Cinnamic acid Benzoic acid Sodium benzoate Fungal infection drugs Local anesthestics: lidocaine,etc.(any amino amide-type)
  • Perfume, Man-made materials, Scented products, Chemicals
  • High in Histamine or Tyramine, Gluten, Soy, Salicylates
Physical Agents Dermatographia (Darier's Sign) Pressure Cold Heat Cholinergic agents
  • Exercise, hot baths/showers, fever, occlusive dressings,

    eating spicy foods, emotional stress

Solar light waves Water Vibration Insect bites (Wasp, Hornet, Bee, Mosquito) Infections Inhalants Scents/Odors, Smoke (wood burning, cigarette, marijuana) Latex Foods (**Download our diet guideline.) Cosmetics/Creams containing salicylates Preservatives, Additives, Dyes, Artificial flavours/colouring Vasculitis Internal diseases

 

Contact Agent Triggers of Skin Reactions2
Acrylic monomer Aminothiazole Ammonia Animal Dander Cat and Dog Saliva Arthropods Benzophenone Benzoyl peroxide Carrots Castor beans Cephalosporins Cetyl alcohol Chlorpromazine Cobalt chloride Cod liver oil Diethyltoluamide Estrogenic creams Exotic woods Flour Formaldehyde Hair sprays Horse serum Lindane Monoamylamine Nail polish Penicillin Perfumes Phenylmercuric propionate Platinum salts Potatoes Silk Sodium sulfide Spices Stearyl alcohol Streptomycin Sulfur dioxide Taliphatic polyamide Tetanus antitoxin Wheat Wool

http://www.mastocytosis.ca/symptoms.htm

 

I have been taking Thiamine... B1 100mg a day for a wk. Along with Phosphatidyl Choline.. trying to treat chemical sensitivities .. multiple chemical sensitivities I found it he idea on a MCS web site.  This has been a major problem for me so I took a chance and today find  this post about thiamine increases histamine. 

 

I had a hint my memory was working better when I had to copy some numbers today and it went way better then normal as I could recall a few numbers at a time correctly most of the time this is new for me. I thought it was the B1 helping... now I find this. 

 

I was checking on Thiamine on this site to see if anyone had posted about a Thiamine deficiency psychosis.. as I just learned there was such a thing to day... I guess if the alternative of not taking thiamine supplements for some people is a psychosis then it is worth a bit of histamine... 

 

I would love to have some input on this if anyone has any ideas as to the relationship of thiamine to psychosis and or histamine increase either... as I am blowing in the wind here just now not knowing what to think. 

 

It is a good thing I read old posts so I can get answers to my questions in case anyone else was looking 

 

Increased neuronal histamine in thiamine-deficient rats

It is the opposite of what was stated in the first article above thiamine and histamine do not dwell together thiamine will kick histamine out of the brain...

 

Histamine levels in thiamine deficient rats were significantly lower in the hippocampus, amygdala, olfactory bulb, thalamus and pons-medulla oblongata than those of normal and pair-fed groups. In the case of the hypothalamus, thiamine deficiency produced a significant increase in histamine levels. These changes observed in the thiamine deficient group were reversed to the normal levels by supplying the normal diet. These data present a new finding that thiamine deficiency affects the central histaminergic neuron system as well as other monoaminergic systems.

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btdt

 

from David Healy's withdrawal guide...he doesn't understand the potential extent of it (and I do not recommend the drugs he suggests), but this is interesting...
 
Having said this, SRI dependence and withdrawal does involve real bowel disturbances 
from diarrhea through to food intolerance that are difficult to see just as a vigilance 
problem and there is much more serotonin in the gut and muscles than anywhere else. 
 
Stabilizing the histamine system - 1 
The SRIs are a group of antihistamine drugs that also inhibit serotonin reuptake. Despite 
marketing propaganda, they are not selective or clean drugs. 

 

One way to manage withdrawal might be to switch to an SRI antihistamine such as 
chlorphenamine or diphenhydramine. These are less potent SRIs and switching to them is 
a way to slowly reduce the dose. 

 

A related option here is to switch to a tricyclic antidepressant such as dosulepin which is 
also an antihistamine with less potent serotonin reuptake inhibiting properties. 
The best way to think about this is that the SSRIs are like sports cars that can pick up pace 
incredibly quickly but a car like this isn’t needed in a town or a city. The amount of 
serotonin and reuptake inhibition from dosulepin or chlorphenamine is all that is really 
needed for most situations. 

 

There are other antihistamines that do not inhibit serotonin reuptake such as loratadine or 
cetirizine that might be useful if withdrawal comes more from histamine than serotonin. 
 
Stabilizing the histamine system - 2 
A further option on the antihistamine front is to view serotonin withdrawal as a histamine 
over-activity (semi- allergic) state brought around by the fact that the person has been on 
antihistamines chronically. 

 

One of the ways to damp down histamine over activity is to use a mast cell stabiliser such 
as sodium chromoglycate. Sodium chromoglycate (Nalcrom) is used extensively for people 
with food intolerance – a complaint that many people with SRI withdrawal have. 

 

The histamine system can be further damped by adding a H2 receptor blocker such as 
cimetidine or ranitidine. 

 

Cinnarizine is an antihistamine that is also a calcium channel blocker. 

 

 

 

Could this still be my issue is this why 2 different docs in 2 wks have been suggesting drugs that ultimately will lower histamine... some of them are psych.  

 

I think I would rather chance a probiotic that lowers histamine. 

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btdt

Amine is in a lot of foods... it seems I am having reactions to foods that have them.... 

 

Fish, cheese, wine, some meats, some fruit such as bananas and avocados, some vegetables such as mushrooms, and fermented foods such as chocolate, sauerkraut and soy sauce are just some of the foods that have been listed as containing varying levels of amines, but basically any protein food can containamines depending ...
Amines - Food Intolerance Network
fedup.com.au/factsheets/additive-and-natural-chemical-factsheets/amines
 
or it does seem to be what they have in common... except tomatos... I can't figure that one yet... 
 
does anyone else have this?

 

 

These are amine drugs

Ephedrine and phenylephrine, as amine hydrochlorides, are used as decongestants. Amphetamine, methamphetamine, and methcathinone are psychostimulant amines that are listed as controlled substances by the US DEA. Amitriptyline, imipramine, lofepramine and clomipramine are tricyclic antidepressants and tertiary amines.

I will look at this later

http://www.umsl.edu/~chickosj/56/temp18.pdf

 

I have confused and exhausted myself at this point may not be making any sense... yet again

peace

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btdt

copies from the mensteral cycle thread.. I just put it here in case it can help somebody

 

http://www.histaminintoleranz.ch/de/histaminose_dao-abbaustoerung.html#daoblocker

 

you will have to translate the above site to read this further down the page you will find other causes histamine is not working properly... could be caused by damage to the gut or low... DAO 

 

 

Hormonal disorders

A more advisable out of balance hormones can cause or contribute to histamine problems. The biggest role is played here probably the estrogen (female sex hormone), which is not the absolute amount of estrogen, but the ratio of estrogen relative to certain other hormones (progesterone, testosterone) is crucial. Women are affected more often than men thereof.

The disturbances in hormone levels include:

  • Female Cycle (Menstruation)
  • Hormonal birth control (contraceptives, birth control pills)
  • Menopause (climacteric)
  • puberty
  • Estrogen dominance (or progesterone or testosterone deficiency)
  • Hormones and hormone-like substances in natural foods (eg estrogen in hops and beer)
  • Endocrine pollutants: Substances (unintended) of hormone-like effect in everyday products such as plastics, sun creams etc.
  • (Possibly hormones as growth promoters in animal production?)

Evidence of an association between histamine and hormones: 
From HIT are affected significantly more women than men and the disease often occurs with the onset of menopause on [ Jarisch 2004 ]. 
The intensity of histamine problems is the female cycle dependent (menstrual pain as histamine symptom) [ Jarisch 2004 ]. 
the symptoms of histamine-sensitive people may deteriorate (hormonal contraceptives) depending on individual hormone status or improve when taking the pill. 
During pregnancy, the DAO-level rises by approximately 300 times to the uterus and the embryo before histamine to protect. This has the result that during pregnancy allergies and other histamine problems usually temporarily disappear [Maintz et al. 2008 , Jarisch 2004 ]. Increasing the DAO-production at the beginning of pregnancy is regulated by estrogen [ Liang et al. 2010 ].

The complex interactions are understood not enough. A mechanism could be: For the breakdown of estrogen Vitamin B6 is needed. If too much excess estrogen must be dismantled, the diamine is (DAO) is no longer enough vitamin B6 for the breakdown of histamine available. Conversely, appears to influence the hormone balance and the histamine levels. Apart from the DAO are other places in histamine metabolism hormonal influences (eg can be stimulated to mediator release via estrogen receptors on the membrane of mast cells this).

 

I am not the brainiak I wish I were... but for me B6 makes me so depressed I can't lift my head... P5P helps.  B5 it is sometimes called. 

If this is in part a histamine issue... B1 helps me think and you can read about the conflicting reports I have found on B1 lowering or raising histamine.  

All I know is when I cannot think B1 helps me I came to it by accident comparing cereals... All Bran sticks has a lot of B1 All Bran round things doesn't... All bran was a staple for me in wd once I found it .. I did not leave home without it... I tried the round bits of All Bran it failed me.. back to sticks.  Over time I stopped eating it.. as I thought it was just helping my digestion and that improved... it was not until I did he comparison for another person here at SA that I noticed the sticks had more B1... so I looked up B1 ... and bought some B1... I later learned B1 lowers histamine... important now as I am having allerigic type reactions to many things including drugs it is getting increasingly worse.

Symptoms and Signs. Early symptoms are nonspecific: fatigue, irritability, poor memory, sleep disturbances, precordial pain, anorexia, and abdominal discomfort. Dry beriberi refers to peripheral neurologic deficits due to thiamin deficiency.

These drugs change our guts we may well have lack of B1

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ccb73

Hi.

 

Seems like I was quite OK with all foods while on the many psych drugs I was on but in withdrawal, it's a hellish experience.

 

My bodu is reacting and it seems to be histamine secondary. I think many psych drugs block histamine and withdrawal messes around with it, especially with Viibryd because it's a mild anticholinergic.

 

Any ideas, support. Does anyone have the same responses?

 

Thanks

 

C.B.

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gn11

I just started a low histamine diet and I'm feeling better overall. If you read the whole thread, there is a lot of great information here. Information can be confusing and contradictory but I'm finding that by experimenting with  a few foods in the low histamine list, I am doing better. There for a while I could only eat white rice and chicken. I've been doing this for about 10 days.

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Katch

Hello all, this is very interesting thread. I have just came across this on Dr. Mercola website - it was a comment from one of the readers: 

 

One way that bacteria in the gut can cause anxiety and depression is by releasing large amounts of histamine. The body then must use up B6 to make DAO, the enzyme that degrades histamine in the gut and extracellular space in the body(not within cells). When there is a lot of histamine, all or nearly all of the B6 may be used, leaving little or none for making serotonin, since B6 is essential for making serotonin and this makes the person feel depressed. Another route for getting rid of histamine is adrenaline, so the body also releases adrenaline, making the person feel anxious. If the person has the capability of making DAO, but doesn't have enough B6 then the answer is to take enough B6 to make enough DAO to get rid of all that excess histamine. This is what has happened to my son, and taking P5P, the activated form of B6, was like a miracle for him. (100mg of regular B6 didn't do much for my son, so if you try this make sure you take enough.) If you don't remember your dreams, that may be a sign that you need more B6. If you take B6 and get extremely vivid dreams, then back off.

 

Has anyone tried B6? Any ideas/comments?

Kat

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btdt

I tried vit B5 as B6 makes me very depressed for some reason I do not understand... B5 seems ok some people need to take B5 as a substitute for B6 as they lack what it takes to break down B6... B5 is B6 with the first break down stage already done. 

 

I have been taking too many things recently to safely add to the conversation here just now... I hit a rough patch and started supplementing big time after years of very conservative low start dose vit tries... B5 is ok in my book and helpful to me personally B6 no way... but we all have our differences. 

 

I am trying new things on a large scale due to increase symptoms fear kind of fear not the over the top irrational wd fear... just ordinary fear of I am bottoming out and need to make changes more a desperation... I can't take drugs so this is my new trial.  Food has always been helpful to me but a lot of food reactions after an anaphalactic drug reaction last years has me less keen on food ... very careful with food now. 

 

Hope this helps in some small way all vitamins should be started at !/6 the normal recommended dose for anyone in a state of wd crisis... stay at the low dose a few wks as cumulative effects can hit hard and all at once... increase the dose in the same way gradually and slowly... wait just as you would in a drug drop... for us some vitamin affects are like drug affects.  

 

Be careful which probiotic you take some increase histamine some decrease histamine... I have written about this and created a list some place on SA sorry I don't know where it is on here I just know it is here. 

 

hope this helps some wishing you peace

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Katch

Hello btdt and thank you for your response.

 

I wish all this wasn’t such a minefield.  I really feel my gut needs to be my priority but it’s so difficult to heal it when all the usual ‘cures’ like probiotic and fermented foods can be a problem.

 

I have ordered some B6 and will give it a go – as you recommended – at very low doses. If not, I’ll try B5.   Thank you again and hope you healing well.

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Area1255

I tried vit B5 as B6 makes me very depressed for some reason I do not understand... B5 seems ok some people need to take B5 as a substitute for B6 as they lack what it takes to break down B6... B5 is B6 with the first break down stage already done. 

Yeah, you gotta take 'em with B12, it balances out the effect of other B-Vitamins. Niacin is a good addition too.

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ccb73

What is B5? Do you m3an P5P?

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Area1255

What is B5? Do you m3an P5P?

B5 is Pantothenic Acid, it's a B-Vitamin.

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Junglechicken

Oh dear, I think I am joining this club :0(

 

Many of my symptoms over the last month or so point back to histhamine releasing foods.

 

I have to thank Freespirit for pointing this out to me; so once I have done UK move # 4 I will get on to overhauling my diet.

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GiaK

just for the record...my histamine intolerance was severe and unrelenting and I had to pair back and eat a very limited selection of foods for a long time (years) ... but now with slow, methodical and very careful detoxification I can eat almost anything again. (to be clear, I don't want to eat a lot of foods I used to eat...but as far as WHOLE REAL FOOD goes, I can eat almost everything if and when I need it ... I still pay attention and eat accordingly, of course...my body is still healing, but there are very few foods I literally cannot eat anymore)

 

the one food group I truly still have intolerances to are NIGHTSHADES...I avoid those pretty much entirely...though if I get a wee bit in something like a sauce that's okay. 

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Junglechicken

Thanks GiaK,

 

Having read many of your posts, I know you've had a really bad time with this.  

 

I am full of admiration for you because of your patience in the healing process through diet.

 

The last time I got the dermatitis around the mouth was 7 yrs ago before moving to Canada (stressful times), and so this is history repeating itself; but back then I had no idea it was down to diet.

 

Watch this space......

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Area1255

Thanks GiaK,

 

Having read many of your posts, I know you've had a really bad time with this.  

 

I am full of admiration for you because of your patience in the healing process through diet.

 

The last time I got the dermatitis around the mouth was 7 yrs ago before moving to Canada (stressful times), and so this is history repeating itself; but back then I had no idea it was down to diet.

 

Watch this space......

Be careful of alcohol too.

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Sheri755

 

Sheesh, it seems like you almost have to fast to avoid any problems with food.

Ha, funny you say that because that's practically what I'm doing right now.

I only seem to have better days when I barely eat much at all. I know it isn't good though. Makes me wonder if I have a liver problem or something.

 

Has anyone looked into thyroid issues? I've heard that there may be a link with histamine and thyroid, although there's not a lot of info.

There's a rat study here that mentions it:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3100778

 

And a post here from a psychiatrist who talks about how histamine affects the brain and thyroid etc:

 

http://www.definitivemind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54

 

I'd love to read the thyroid-histamine link but it's not opening. Do you have other links, perhaps?

Thanks!

Edited by scallywag
cleaning up quote code

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scallywag

Sheri - the Definitive Mind site is under construction/renovation. Apparently content will return in November 2016.

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Sheri755

Sheri - the Definitive Mind site is under construction/renovation. Apparently content will return in November 2016.

Thank you Scally for letting me know! I'll mark my calendar to check back.

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btdt

 

I tried vit B5 as B6 makes me very depressed for some reason I do not understand... B5 seems ok some people need to take B5 as a substitute for B6 as they lack what it takes to break down B6... B5 is B6 with the first break down stage already done. 

Yeah, you gotta take 'em with B12, it balances out the effect of other B-Vitamins. Niacin is a good addition too.

 

I can NOT tolerate B12 at all... and I can't recall all of it my brain is broken when it comes to memory of some things there is no room at the inn but I know I posted about my last B12 half a sublingual it was bad and lasted a long time and took me a long time to figure out too... 

 

no idea why or D3 can't take either 

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btdt

Hello btdt and thank you for your response.

 

I wish all this wasn’t such a minefield.  I really feel my gut needs to be my priority but it’s so difficult to heal it when all the usual ‘cures’ like probiotic and fermented foods can be a problem.

 

I have ordered some B6 and will give it a go – as you recommended – at very low doses. If not, I’ll try B5.   Thank you again and hope you healing well.

Take B1  

Thiamine and histamine can't share a room... histamine will get the boot... I learned this over years long and old story 

started with eating bran sticks... not buds... all bran.  Old fashion boring cereal cause my digestion would not work I could not eat... the all bran sticks became my new drug it went everywhere I did... a table spoon if I was too sick to eat more I could not be without it or I would crumble. 

Then I tried the All Bran Buds and they did not work... fast forward likely years and my brain kicked in one day and compared the labels ... the All Bran Sticks have more thiamine... B1 ...BINGO 

I started taking B1 100mg and dirt cheap... some things are treated with B1 at much higher doses... I am toying with trying it.  

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btdt

DAO degradation disorders (= histamine intolerance, HIT)

The diamine oxidase (DAO) is the main pathway in the gut for histamine (See page Histaminosis> histamine metabolites ).

Many different causes can reduce the enzyme activity of diamine oxidase (DAO). They may be acquired or congenital, temporary or permanent:

  • DAO blockers (= DAO inhibitors, DAO inhibitors)
  • Overload of DAO by other biogenic amines 

    (competitive inhibition by competing substrates)

  • Hormonal disorders
  • Damage to the intestinal mucosa
    • Celiac disease / sprue
    • Gastrointestinal infections
    • Chronic inflammation of the intestines
    • Poisoning
  • Gene variants of the diamine oxidase (DAO)

Reduced DAO activity has been shown to lead to increased histamine levels. To date, however, not all authors have been able to establish a clear correlation with the clinical picture of histamine intolerance. The clinical relevance of the DAO degradation disorder is therefore controversial in the professional world.

Causes of DAO degradation disorder

The histamine degradation capacity of the DAO can be reduced for several reasons:

DAO blockers (= DAO inhibitors, DAO inhibitors)

The DAO is a sensitive molecule and is not located within the cell in a controlled environment, as is the case with most enzymes, but is used outside the cell where it is exposed to chemical interferences without protection. Certain substances can by their presence in the body, the enzyme activity of DAO inhibit [ McGrath et al.2009 ]. They are therefore referred to as DAO blockers = DAO inhibitors = DAO inhibitors. A HIT thus caused is acquired and temporary.

Important inhibitors of the DAO are alcohol and its degradation product acetaldehyde as well as nicotine. Other foodstuffs, food additives and, in particular, medicament active ingredients can also reduce or almost completely block the activity of the DAO. Numerous environmental pollutants and chemicals in the everyday products of today's civilization could also contribute to this, but this is not yet under investigation. [ Kiehl and Ionescu 1993 , Sattler et al. 1988 ,Sattler et al. 1989 , Sattler et al. 1990 , Jarisch 2004 ]

Figure DAO blocker: Histamine can no longer reach the active center of the DAO when other substances which are randomly inserted there, such as the drug active substance pentamidine (yellow), occupy this niche in the DAO molecule (3D surface model). Source: Reprinted (adapted) with permission from [ McGrath et al. 2009 ]. Copyright (2009) American Chemical Society.

Additional information:

Page therapy> Medicines> DAO inhibitors

Overload of DAO by competing substrates (competitive inhibition by other biogenic amines)

Besides histamine, there are many other biogenic amines . Some foods contain such biogenic amines in large quantities [ Askar and Treptow 1986 ]. The DAO is also partially responsible for their dismantling. Biogenic amines are therefore a substrate competing with histamine. Worse still, the DAO even prefers other amines to the histamine. The degradation of histamine is much slower, because the DAO is already occupied elsewhere.

Some biogenic amines can also act directly on the body and cause symptoms. For example, along with histamine and tyramine, tryptophan and beta-phenylethylamine (and serotonin?) Effect on the blood vessels (known as vasoactive amines) [ Steneberg 2007 ].

Hormonal disorders

A hormonal balance that is out of balance can also cause or facilitate histamine problems. The estrogen (female sex hormone) presumably plays the most important role here, with the absolute estrogen quantity, but the ratio of estrogen relative to certain other hormones (progesterone, testosterone) being decisive.Women are more often affected than men.

Among the disturbing factors in the hormonal balance are:

Evidence of an association between histamine and hormones: 

From HIT are affected significantly more women than men and the disease often occurs with the onset of menopause on [ Jarisch 2004 ]. 

The intensity of histamine problems is the female cycle dependent (menstrual pain as histamine symptom) [ Jarisch 2004 ]. 

The symptoms of histamine-sensitive persons may deteriorate or improve with the use of the pill (hormonal contraceptives) depending on individual hormonal status. 

During pregnancy, the DAO level increases by about 300 times to protect the uterus or the embryo from histamine. This has the result that during pregnancy allergies and other histamine problems usually temporarily disappear [ Maintz et al. 2008 , Jarisch 2004 ]. Increasing the DAO-production at the beginning of pregnancy is regulated by estrogen [ Liang et al. 2010 ].

The complicated interactions are not yet sufficiently understood. One mechanism could be: Vitamin B6 is needed for the estrogen degradation. When too much excess estrogen needs to be broken, diamine oxidase (DAO) is no longer available for vitamin B6 for histamine degradation. Conversely, however, the histamine level also seems to influence the hormonal balance. In addition to the DAO, other sites in the histamine metabolism are also hormonally influenced (eg via estrogen receptors on the membrane of the mast cells they can be stimulated to mediator release).

Damage to the intestinal mucosa

 

The diamine oxidase (DAO) is formed mainly in the cells of the intestinal mucosa in order to degrade the histamine contained in the foodstuff, so that it can not enter the body. Poisons or diseases of the digestive tract can damage the intestinal mucosa cells in such a way that this protective barrier against histamine no longer functions adequately. This form of histamine intolerance disappears again as soon as the intestinal mucosa has recovered after the subsidence of the bowels has subsided.

Celiac disease / sprue

The celiac disease is a combination of an allergy to the gluten allergy (gluten allergy) present in many cereals and an autoimmune reaction of the body against the intestinal mucus cells. The mucus moths are destroyed by the immune system.As a result, the intestinal mucosa can no longer produce as much DAO as a healthy person.

Gastrointestinal infections (gastroenteritis)

Infections of the digestive tract are called gastroenteritis, gastrointestinal flu, crushing, happening or abdominal flu. Possible infections are caused by various pathogens (viruses, bacteria, amoebae, ...). Depending on the extent, the intestinal mucosa becomes inflamed and is destroyed more or less severely.

Chronic inflammation of the intestines

Chronic inflammation of the Darfur can also be associated with a diminished DAO activity. The question arises, however, whether the intestine is inflamed by histamine because of the diminished DAO activity, or whether, on the other hand, inflammation from another cause reduces the DAO activity.

Poisoning

Many foods naturally contain substances that are toxic by accidental contamination, deliberate flushing or environmental pollution. Acute poisoning as well as chronic poisoning disturb the cell functions or can kill the cells at worst.The intestinal mucosa is most exposed to these poisons, since it comes into direct contact with them. The DAO production of intestinal mucosa cells can be disturbed until the cells are regenerated.

The chemotherapy to combat cancer can temporarily cause Histaminosis [Tsujikawa et al. 1999 ].

Gene variants of the diamine oxidase (DAO)

Already, several DAO gene variants (often referred to as "gene defects") have been shown to have an influence on the DAO production or on the DAO activity. But Here again, as in the DAO inhibitors: The reduced DAO activity can indeed clearly increase the histamine levels, but so far this left not clearly reconciled with the HIT-symptoms in combination [ Maintz et al. 2011 ]. According to this study, persons with function-decreasing gene variants ("gene defects") have not shown any more frequently a histamine intolerance than persons with the most frequent (= "normal") gene variant.

See also: 

Section Diagnostics> genetic testing .

Examples of gene variants of diamine oxidase (DAO) already described in the literature:

 

Rs10156191 Thr16Met

NCBI gene bank: Show genotype frequency and allele frequency

Very common, particularly among Africans (about 60% allele frequency), but also in Europeans (about 30%), rare in Asians.

"For ABP1 of the most relevant polymorphisms are rs10156191 Thr16Met, ..." [ García-Martín et al. 2009 ] 

"diamine oxidase serum activity which Significantly associated with seven SNPs within the DAO gene. The minor allele at rs2052129, rs2268999, rs10156191 and rs1049742 Increased the risk for a reduced DAO activity ..." [ Maintz et al. 2011 ]

Rs1049742 Ser332Phe

NCBI gene bank: Show genotype frequency and allele frequency

Common among Europeans and Africans (about 5-15% allele frequency), very rare in Asians.

"For ABP1 of the most relevant polymorphisms rs1049742 are Ser332Phe, ..." [ García-Martín et al. 2009 ] 

"diamine oxidase serum activity which Significantly associated with seven SNPs within the DAO gene. The minor allele at rs2052129, rs2268999, rs10156191 andrs1049742 Increased the risk for a reduced DAO activity whereas showing a moderate protective effect at rs2071514, rs1049748 and rs2071517 in The genotypic (P = 2.1x10 (-8), 7.6x10 (-10), 8.3x10 (-10), 0.009, 0.005, 0.00001, 0.006, respectively) and allelic genetic model -11), 5.4x10 (-13), 8.9x10 (-13), 0.00002, 0.006, 0.0003, 0.005, respectively.) Reporter gene assays at rs2052129 revealed a lower promoter activity (P = 0.016) of the minor allele (D) mRNA expression in peripheral blood 

mononuclear cells of homozygous carriers of the minor allele at rs2052129, rs2268999, rs10156191. Maintz et al. 2011 ]

Rs1049793 His645Asp

NCBI gene bank: Show genotype frequency and allele frequency

 

 

Rs45558339 Ile479Met

NCBI gene bank: Show genotype frequency and allele frequency

Only relevant to Asians.

 

Rs35070995 His659Asn

NCBI gene bank: Show genotype frequency and allele frequency

Only relevant to Africans.

 

Rs2052129

NCBI gene bank: Show genotype frequency and allele frequency

 

 

Rs2268999

NCBI gene bank: Show genotype frequency and allele frequency

 

 

Rs2071514

NCBI gene bank: Show genotype frequency and allele frequency

Slightly elevated DAO activity

 

Rs1049748

NCBI gene bank: Show genotype frequency and allele frequency

 

Slightly elevated DAO activity

 

 

Rs2071517

NCBI gene bank: Show genotype frequency and allele frequency

Slightly elevated DAO activity

Clinical relevance of DAO degradation disorder is controversial

For a long time, it was not possible to explain why many people react to a variety of foods that have nothing to do with each other, sometimes react with acute allergy-like symptoms, but sometimes do not. And this even without an allergy could be proven [ Halpern and Scott 1987 ]. One of the first proposed and publicized mechanisms for the observed syndrome was that poisoning with histamine and other biogenic amines in the diet must be the trigger for the symptoms and that this histamine intolerance syndrome is an enzymatic degradation disorder of the diamine oxidase (DAO) could [ Wantke, Götz and Jarisch 1993 , Wantke, Götz and Jarisch 1993 a , Götz 1996 , Jarisch 2004 ]. The mechanism is plausible, but has not yet been proved without doubt. Therefore, the existence of the report based on a DAO degradation disorder histamine intolerance in the medical profession is still controversial [ Reese et al. 2012 ]. There are scientific articles that suggest that the disruption of this degradation pathway causes symptoms [ Maintz et al. 2006 ,Kiehl and Ionescu 1993 , Sattler and Lorenz 1990 , Sattler et al. 1989 , Sattler et al.1988 ] and there are other studies that have found no association [ Töndury et al.2008 , Kofler et al. 2009 , Worm et al. 2009 , Maintz et al. 2011 ]. Although most studies show an increased histamine level in the blood with a decreased DAO activity. However, it is often not possible to demonstrate a connection between the increased histamine level and the occurrence of symptoms. Here, it is certainly aggravating that the occurrence of individual symptoms has mostly been observed in studies, but this is not reproducible. Instead of using single symptoms should always detect histamine symptoms as a whole, regardless of which symptoms occur in individual cases or fail [ Komericki et al. 2010 ]. In addition to specific in 

most studies the histamine levels and the amount of DAO or DAO activity in the blood (plasma) , while actually the DAO activity in the intestine is much more important. The DAO activity in blood can but humans are not necessarily indicative of the DAO activity in the intestine to [ Reese et al. 2012 p.24 ].

It is certain that the symptoms of those affected exist and that the histamine elimination diet works reliably in a great many cases to prevent recurrence of the symptoms. The page Histaminosis shows that the histamine metabolism too complicated and the number of possible faults is too large to cause histamine back problems alone on a DAO degradation disorder can. One suspects because even that more physical causes and environmental factors involved in histamine intolerance [ Reese et al. 2012 ]. This would lead us to a further explanation for the lack of a clear correlation between enzyme activity and HIT disease: the body is flexible enough to compensate for the decreased performance of an enzyme with the regulation of other metabolic pathways to a certain extent. It is only when there are other disturbing factors that the drum is running.

 

It could be shown for the following additional conditions that the DAO is involved in the development: 

The severity of ulcerative colitis depends on genetic variants of the DAO, but not from the HNMT [ García-Martin et al. 2006 ]. 

Some authors show an influence of the DAO activity in the atopic dermatitis [Maintz et al. 2006 , Kiehl and Ionescu 1993 ], others deny this [ Worm et al. 2009 ].

There is a long list of references that I would read if I were up to it... the link is here 

 

http://www.histaminintoleranz.ch/de/histaminose_dao-abbaustoerung.html#daoblocker

if anyone wants to read them

 

peace all

  • Female cycle (menstruation)
  • Hormonal Contraception (Anticonceptives, Antibiotic)
  • Menopause (menopause)
  • puberty
  • Estrogen dominance (or progesterone or testosterone deficiency)
  • Hormones and hormone-like substances in natural foods (eg estrogen in hops and beer)
  • Hormone-active environmental pollutants: substances with (inadvertent) hormone-like effects in everyday products such as plastics, sun creams, etc.
  • (Possibly hormones as performance promoters in animal production?)

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btdt

good little link... 

http://www.low-histamine.com/tag/benzodiazepines/

 

Are Your Medications Sabotaging Your Low-Histamine Diet?

 

“These are the meds I no longer use, which all used to raise my histamine levels either instantly or as a rebound effect:

  • Proton pump inhibitors
  • Paracetamol
  • Anti-histamines
  • Anti-depressants
  • Benzodiazepines
  • Ibuprofen and other NSAIDs

“I am now (after a long period of struggle) drug-free, less tired, almost pain free (I still have some back pain) and eczema free. If the skin on the OUTSIDE of my body has healed, surely the skin INSIDE is healing too? Meaning the digestive tract?

“I don’t want to be on  the low-histamine diet forever, but thank goodness it exists. And it is much easier to follow that some other diets I’ve resorted to, such as the candida diet! Nonetheless, I want to cheat on the low-histamine diet as much as I can if I can get away with it. ONLY if I can get away with it and not suffer! I do not want to pay the pain-price.  So here’s hoping that if I stay on the diet long enough i will properly heal on the inside and produce more DAO and then be able to eat and drink all those high histamine foods/drinks from time to time while still remaining healthy and pain-free.

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Sheri755

 

from David Healy's withdrawal guide...he doesn't understand the potential extent of it (and I do not recommend the drugs he suggests), but this is interesting...

 

Having said this, SRI dependence and withdrawal does involve real bowel disturbances

from diarrhea through to food intolerance that are difficult to see just as a vigilance

problem and there is much more serotonin in the gut and muscles than anywhere else.

Stabilizing the histamine system - 1

The SRIs are a group of antihistamine drugs that also inhibit serotonin reuptake. Despite

marketing propaganda, they are not selective or clean drugs.

One way to manage withdrawal might be to switch to an SRI antihistamine such as

chlorphenamine or diphenhydramine. These are less potent SRIs and switching to them is

a way to slowly reduce the dose.

A related option here is to switch to a tricyclic antidepressant such as dosulepin which is

also an antihistamine with less potent serotonin reuptake inhibiting properties.

The best way to think about this is that the SSRIs are like sports cars that can pick up pace

incredibly quickly but a car like this isn’t needed in a town or a city. The amount of

serotonin and reuptake inhibition from dosulepin or chlorphenamine is all that is really

needed for most situations.

There are other antihistamines that do not inhibit serotonin reuptake such as loratadine or

cetirizine that might be useful if withdrawal comes more from histamine than serotonin.

Stabilizing the histamine system - 2

A further option on the antihistamine front is to view serotonin withdrawal as a histamine

over-activity (semi- allergic) state brought around by the fact that the person has been on

antihistamines chronically.

One of the ways to damp down histamine over activity is to use a mast cell stabiliser such

as sodium chromoglycate. Sodium chromoglycate (Nalcrom) is used extensively for people

with food intolerance – a complaint that many people with SRI withdrawal have.

The histamine system can be further damped by adding a H2 receptor blocker such as

cimetidine or ranitidine.

Cinnarizine is an antihistamine that is also a calcium channel blocker.

 

Could this still be my issue is this why 2 different docs in 2 wks have been suggesting drugs that ultimately will lower histamine... some of them are psych.

 

I think I would rather chance a probiotic that lowers histamine.

Hi btdt, Do you know of a particular probiotic that would help with excess histimine? I'm having trouble with my sinuses, fluid in ear and pain. Also very excessive saliva and drainage. Seems like I'm constantly clearing my throat.

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Faithgrl

Hi all just want to put in my 2 cent on this.

 

My eczema flared like crazy after my last reinstatement. Every time I ate a meal, the eczema flared. It covered both my arms and my left hand was constantly weeping.

 

Was terrified of taking anti-histamines and cortisone in case of the rebound effect. Went to the doctor and he prescribed me prednisone (I am bipolar and it could send me manic).

 

In this time I tried the quercetin, the nigella sativa seeds, the mangosteen and other supplements recommended by the low histamine chef. They actually made the itching worse.

 

After consulting a kinesiologist we decided it was better that I do the anti-histamines and cortisone at least in the short term (its the new year, and until I get appointments with new doctors).

 

I have been reading up on Karen Fischer's the eczema diet and strongly identify with have a salicylate sensitivity. This would explain why herbs have either not worked or made anything I was trying to fix worse.

 

The one thing that I did off the low histamine chef is to eat less, as every time we eat, we produce histamines. Its hard, particularly given my history of having an eating disorder. But I am managing for now.

 

I also added in a bunch of supplements recommended by Karen Fischer, including B6, Biotin etc...but reacted really badly to Vit E and Vit K.

 

So for now, my skin is clear after 6 days of anti-histamines, cortisone, much less (and cleaner) food, and I have a plan to taper off the anti-histamines...slowly.

 

Just thought I'd put my 2 cents in there if there are those out there who are not responding, or responding very poorly to herbs/seeds. It could be a salicylate sensitivity.

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GiaK

sensitivities of this sort have, for me, proven to be issues with poor methylation and therefore a non-existent capacity to detoxify naturally. I had 100s of radical hypersensitivities with foods that I no longer have. it's taken some years, but slowly, as I've improved my detoxifying capacities these issues are changing. I remain sensitive, but in a good way, by paying attention to my sensitivities I have learned what to eat and when...and I can eat most foods again...including very high histamine and salicylates, oxalates etc...those and much more were huge issues at one time...

 

so the "hyper" sensitivity goes from being a liability, making life hell, to a way to collect life-saving, healing information...reframing what it means changed my life. 

 

it took time and I'm still careful...still in process but it's a whole other ball of wax at this point. 

 

anyway, in short, now, in retrospect I see that what I needed was to detoxify...and to tolerated detoxification I had to start with eliminating foods and then slowly, over years, adding back highly nutritious foods and supplements that helped me detoxify...things like probiotics, enzymes, and many herbs (all of which I was radically sensitive to at one point for several years) 

 

it takes time and patience, but it can be done.

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Toulouse

I might have said this somewhere before in this thread, or something like it (but I have updates anyway).  But I have had histamine intolerance issues / or an overactive histamine reaction for whatever reason which started after I started my taper from paxil back in June 2015.  Since then I have not been able to consume soy, dairy or gluten.  Switching to a diet sans these elements caused me to A) feel better physically - I stopped getting hives and rashes and B) I lost 25 lbs, which I have kept off for over 1.5 years.  I also cut all alcohol and caffeine. So my diet is much better than pre-taper.  I still get a blotchy spot, or itch, or a pain in my side if I accidentally consume gluten, soy or dairy, so it might be a life long diet for me (which is OK. The diet isn't that bad).  So I am cautious about being 100% free of those allergens.  Try eliminating all three for a couple weeks (but you must be 100% to notice if it's doing anything or not for you).

 

I tried the anti-histamine diet and it didn't work nearly as well as mine (which is an anti-inflammatory diet).

 

My anxiety is about 90% gone over the last three or four months as well.  My joints don't ache nearly as much. My sleep is about 90% better (no more insomnia except for occasional waking around 5 am but then I drift back off to sleep). 

I think the diet had a large part to do with helping me heal a lot of the physical ailments. And therapy, mindfulness meditation helped relieve a lot of the anxiety (which was a HUGE issue for me). 

 

It's a simple diet and easy to try. Hope this helps someone having issues similar to what I went through.  (major histamine issues and anaphylaxis)

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delsol

So glad to run into this topic. I'm new on this site. Histamine problems are my main concern right now. Every time I eat -- and I mean ****every**** time -- I get itchy from the inside-out. My inner ear fills with fluid. I swell up. Sometimes, my eyes water or I sneeze. My mood immediately plummets during these "episodes." These have been much worse since getting off 450 mg. Wellbutrin in a very short time (long taper was not possible because I'd become toxic/allergic to Wellbutrin).

 

I just started ridding my diet of fermented foods (sauerkraut, kombucha, etc.), which I absolutely love. I don't eat animal foods and haven't for years, so that part is already out of the way (those tend to be very high in histamine). I'm now avoiding tomatoes and citrus, and I've minimized my love of curry and hot spices. I hope this helps in the long run.

 

I had some allergy testing, which did not show any particular food allergies, though I've also gone gluten-free, as my system seems not to tolerate gluten, especially as I've gotten older and have spent too much time on psych meds. I feel like my world is becoming smaller and smaller. I am tired of living in response to a bodily crisis caused by meds. I hope to add back fermented foods someday, as good food is one of the few pleasures in life sometimes, especially when dealing with crazy withdrawal.

 

I'm really glad to read that I'm not alone with these symptoms. I hope to also find some supplements to help. Thank you for your stories.

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tryingtosurvive

Can it be Prozac caused the histamine intolerance ?  Can SSRI cause mast cell disorders ?... , since SSRI interfere /affect mastcells.... :/

 

Anyone knows about this ?

Grateful to your responses

 

 

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ChessieCat

For beginning of "mast cell" discussion go to Page 5 of this topic and find by Ctrl + F and type in mast cell.

 

To find all posts with "mast cell" in type mast cell in Search at the top right of page.

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KurtT

So I didnt read the entire thread, but I have a few questions!!

 

Do I and the rest of you have mast cell activation disorder even though I dont get rashes. In know its also called histamine intolerance, but my main problem is gluten.

 

Benadryl seems to work well for me, but I dont know if this is because of the sedative effect or the anti histamine?

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ChessieCat

Found this in another topic:

 

On 10/12/2013 at 9:24 AM, GiaK said:

just a note of caution...people with histamine intolerance can have problems tolerating probiotics...and I'm finding there are a lot of us with histamine issues...

 

I haven't been able to find a single strain I tolerate...

 

before I discovered the histamine intolerance I did a lot of probiotics...may have been in part why my withdrawal lasted so long...who knows...but I do think they actually made the histamine issue worse...that said, they did heal my gut in some (at the very least) superficial (but very noticeable) ways...(severe IBS disappeared etc)...so it's hard to know if they helped more or hindered more in the end...

 

I hope to be able to reintroduce them some day...it's clear that they'd be helpful if I could tolerate them...

 

when I had dozens of symptoms it was hard to know what made me worse...and in retrospect I was taking a lot of stuff that was exacerbating the histamine issues...it's taken years to tease all that out

 

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GiaK

hey...since I got notified of the above quote I thought I'd let you know that I still don't tolerate probiotics much but I've found that if I just eat food that contains them once in a while I do okay. I do a small 8 oz cup of goats milk yogurt occasionally...(my body kinda knows when...if I eat it more than ONCE however I run into problems.) ... then I also drink Kavita (a probiotic beverage in the cooler section of health oriented grocery stores) I drink half and then another half about a week later and that is okay too....

 

the only strain of probiotic pill I tolerate is plantarum and I get the one made by swanson vitamins...L-Plantarum...I can take that several times a week without a problem.

 

that's all I do for the time being...maybe someday I'll be able to add more...don't know. I don't have to be nearly as crazy careful with food anymore but I still don't eat in restaurants...(except for the food bars like the ones in whole foods where all the ingredients are listed)

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