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Histamine food intolerance


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SertralineAnxiety

Thanks gn11, yes I looked into it. I dont think I can tolerate any kind of supplement or treatment in this hypersensitive state. I am down to 5-6 types of foods, and I will try other things like therapy, vagus nerve exercises (bought a book), do an online course about mast cells, eft(tapping), meditation. Maybe if I calm down my nervous system enough, I can turn a corner. 

2005-2018: Sertraline 50mg

Jan 2018: Started taper from 50mg

Jun 2018: 25 mg

July 2019: 20 mg. Switched to Microtapering

Spring 2020: Tetanus vaccine and a course of rabies vaccinations. 

July 2020: 16 mg. Hold.

During 2020, I was forced to change manufacturers(of generic Sertraline) 4 times due to supplier issues. I didn't write the dates down. 

1st Oct&4th Oct 2020: IV drip with Metoclopramide, ranitidine, hyoscine butylbromide in hospital

26 October 2020: 17 mg

1Nov: 16mg

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I don't have much more to say except that the improvement has been marked and sustained for about 12 days now.   the most noticeable thing is additional physical capacities...while my stamina stil

I have collection of everything I've ever written on histamine intolerance at this link https://wp.me/p5nnb-8Lf   I generally avoid giving advice cuz only you can hear your body and wha

@Erell  Have you ever had any reflux issues?  That can cause your throat to feel that way especially if sitting or lying down after food or drink intake, or just saliva to. Otherwise I agree with

On 11/2/2020 at 3:04 AM, SertralineAnxiety said:

Thanks gn11, yes I looked into it. I don' think I can tolerate any kind of supplement or treatment in this hypersensitive state. I am down to 5-6 types of foods, and I will try other things like therapy, vagus nerve exercises (bought a book), do an online course about mast cells, eft(tapping), meditation. Maybe if I calm down my nervous system enough, I can turn a corner. 

sorry to hear about your struggles. I am very sensitive as well. I am now trying some herbal formulation through the Naturopath and I've been going very slowly. I am off grains with exception of oatmeal and I'm trying some white french bread (easier to digest than multigrain). Can you tell me the name of the book you are using for vagus nerve exercises?

2006-2007 Lexapro (not sure of dose) in 2006

2007 Stopped abruptly. Developed serious wd symptom.Went back after two weeks and  tapered successfully over 3 months

November 2013  started 10 mg of Celexa for hormonal symptoms

early 2014 cutdown Celexa to 5 mg.Attempted to get off it November 2014 and had a difficult time. Went back to 5 mg and stayed until about a month ago. Had eye surgery for glaucoma (left eye-mini-shunt implant)

March-April 2016 developed multiple problems: ringing of ears, ear infections, multiple allergies. Tested negative to allergies  

Anxiety increased  every time I used  an OTC or had stress.April-May Cortisol spike problems increased.

June 9 Found this website while doing research on cortisone and celexa.

Went back between 5 and 10 mg a couple of times. Currently trying to stabilize at 7.5.   and  taking  a leave from work and comeback part-time.

Started taking liquid Celexa 6/15/2016 at 3.75 ml

Other meds: Dorzalamide/timolol for glaucoma twice a day andLatanoprost in the evening.

Vitamin D 2000 mg;vitamin C 500 mg; Lysine 1000 mg 2 x a day. Acupuncture twice a week; meditation; relaxing music daily. 150 mg of Magnesium as of 6/15.

 

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SertralineAnxiety

I only just started reading the book properly yesterday. It is called Accessing the Healing Power of the Vagus Nerve. It was the one with the best reviews and the writer convinced me somehow.

2005-2018: Sertraline 50mg

Jan 2018: Started taper from 50mg

Jun 2018: 25 mg

July 2019: 20 mg. Switched to Microtapering

Spring 2020: Tetanus vaccine and a course of rabies vaccinations. 

July 2020: 16 mg. Hold.

During 2020, I was forced to change manufacturers(of generic Sertraline) 4 times due to supplier issues. I didn't write the dates down. 

1st Oct&4th Oct 2020: IV drip with Metoclopramide, ranitidine, hyoscine butylbromide in hospital

26 October 2020: 17 mg

1Nov: 16mg

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Thanks. I hope it helps you. I'll check it out!

2006-2007 Lexapro (not sure of dose) in 2006

2007 Stopped abruptly. Developed serious wd symptom.Went back after two weeks and  tapered successfully over 3 months

November 2013  started 10 mg of Celexa for hormonal symptoms

early 2014 cutdown Celexa to 5 mg.Attempted to get off it November 2014 and had a difficult time. Went back to 5 mg and stayed until about a month ago. Had eye surgery for glaucoma (left eye-mini-shunt implant)

March-April 2016 developed multiple problems: ringing of ears, ear infections, multiple allergies. Tested negative to allergies  

Anxiety increased  every time I used  an OTC or had stress.April-May Cortisol spike problems increased.

June 9 Found this website while doing research on cortisone and celexa.

Went back between 5 and 10 mg a couple of times. Currently trying to stabilize at 7.5.   and  taking  a leave from work and comeback part-time.

Started taking liquid Celexa 6/15/2016 at 3.75 ml

Other meds: Dorzalamide/timolol for glaucoma twice a day andLatanoprost in the evening.

Vitamin D 2000 mg;vitamin C 500 mg; Lysine 1000 mg 2 x a day. Acupuncture twice a week; meditation; relaxing music daily. 150 mg of Magnesium as of 6/15.

 

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  • 2 months later...

 

Last evening, I washed my face with a strongly scented cleanser that I had not used in months, and after a while I had prickly hot sensations in my head, heavy sinuses which triggered a bit of fear.. but I was able to sit through my meditation and it subsided.

 

Then as I lay down in bed, starting around 11:30-12, I started experiencing adrenaline rushes as I tried to sleep, accompanied by constant burping and flatulence, sinus drainage, and headache, with a lot of gurgling noises in my gut.

I also have hot and red ears, something that I typically had frequently in spring/summer.

 

I haven't had this symptom in almost 6 months.. 

 

The only other diet change was having cooked spinach three meals in a row about two days ago.

 

I have had spinach recently without reacting, but I avoid leftovers.

 

Could it be a delayed histamine intolerance that built up with the spinach, and the perfume in the cleanser tipping the histamine bucket over? 

 

I haven't had such a bad flare in almost 4-5 months, and I thought my histamine intolerance had gotten better. 

 

I am meeting an autonomic function specialist next week so maybe they can rule out any mast cell issues.

Chronic IBS since 1990

Former smoker (1992- Jun 2017)

Prescribed mirtazapine for sleep in Aug 2017 after IBS flare-up following Nicotine cessation.

Mirtazapine 7.5mg 8/17 to 5/18

Mirtazapine 3.75mg 5/18 to 1/19

Off Mirtazapine since 2/19.

Vit B, Vit D+K2 and Magnesium Glycinate as needed.

On Ayurvedic herbs for GI issues - Guduchi since Jul 2020, Indukantham since Oct 2020

On Ashwagandha 1g since Nov 2020

 

 

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@tsranga

 

I will be curious to hear what you learn from the specialist.

 

You've hit on a topic that is of great interest to me - and is part of my ongoing health exploration. I've healed from the withdrawal of the Mirtazapine. I successfully weaned off. And honestly, I am stronger than I've ever been in my life. That said, I too am dealing with the histamine-related issues and they haven't necessarily gotten better - in fact in some ways, I think they have worsened or become more sensitive.

 

There is definitely something to that histamine "bucket" principal. With me, I wonder if there is actually more of a mast cell degranulation event happening cyclically that releases the histamine amongst other things. When I am having issues, that 11:30pm to 4am period of time is pretty much on the mark for when I am struggling hardest as well. Often on those nights, I will fall asleep at 9pm and wake up around 10:45/11pm with symptoms like heart palpitations, temperature dysregulation, frequent urination, etc.

 

Let me give you an example of one these events that happened to me recently. I'd been slightly less careful with my eating for a couple of weeks - not completely reckless, but I'd been enjoying some foods that usually are on my "no" list. This might have been filling the "bucket" for me. One weekend, I had a flurry of physical exertion. There was a massive snowstorm and I needed to do some intensive snow clean up. In addition, on that same weekend, I did a maximum-weight strength training workout in a sunroom that was in direct sunlight and about 80 degrees. Afterwards, I took a cold shower and meditated in that same sunroom with incense burning. For people with mast cell issues, temperature changes, sunlight, perfumes/scents, and vigorous exercise can absolutely start the ball rolling - and it did. The day after that physical activity, I had a small headache that built into a migraine over the next couple of days. And further, I felt the aforementioned symptoms listed above: wake-ups, frequent urination, heart palpitations, temperature issues, etc.

 

This is ongoing research for me. But there is no doubt in my mind that a huge proportion of people who have used Mirtazapine end up dealing with some level of histamine intolerance in the aftermath. For me, treating it and hanging in there with it is a work in progress. I use a few supplements, particularly ayurvedic (Holy Basil, etc), and also vitamins and minerals to help keep things somewhat in check. I also try to stick to a low-histamine diet, but can't often control my external triggers.

 

I will also note that I have the MTHFR genetic mutation and am a compound heterozygus at that. The MTHFR gene variation also seems prevalent in many who suffer from this.

 

For me, this is absolutely an ongoing part of my health journey.

 

I hope some of this helps.

 

Hang in there,

Dave

 

1996 - .5mg Ativan as needed, 7.5mg Remeron daily2008 - .5mg Xanax, Ativan discontinued, Remeron continued2012 - .5mg Xanax, .25mg Ativan 3x daily, Remeron continued2/2012 - Jumped from Remeron, continued .5mg Xanax .25mg Ativan 3x daily4/2012 - Began rapid taper of .5mg Xanax .25mg Ativan 3x daily6/2012 - Jumped from Xanax and Ativan, voluntary hospitalization followed7/2012 - 2nd voluntary hospitalization, reinstated Remeron, bumped to 30mg, also given risperidone.8/2012 - discontinued risperidone, tried gabapentin, dicontinued gabapentin, Remeron 30mg continued10/2012 to current - tapered Remeron 10% every 4 to 6 weeks (sometimes more time) using liquid compound12/2014 - 2mg Remeron 1/16/2015 - 1.9mg Remeron 8/1/2015 -1.6mg Remeron - 03/1/2016 - 1.5mg Remeron - 1/2/2017 1.3mg - 5/7/2017 1.2mg - 5/13/2017 - syringe size change - 6/8/2017 - 1.1mg - 7/10/2017 - 1mg - 9/1/2017 - 0.9mg - 10/22/2017 - 0.8mg - 11/22/2017 - 0.7mg - 2/2/2018 - 0.6mg - 3/13/2018 - new compound pharmacy - 5/20/2018 - 0.5mg - 8/31/2018 - 0.4mg - 11/16/2018 - 0.3mg - 12/24/2018 - 0.2mg - 4/1/2019 - 0.1mg - 5/1/2019 - .05mg - 0mg achieved 2019-06-15. 🤞

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10 minutes ago, ten0275 said:

When I am having issues, that 11:30pm to 4am period of time is pretty much on the mark for when I am struggling hardest as well. Often on those nights, I will fall asleep at 9pm and wake up around 10:45/11pm with symptoms like heart palpitations, temperature dysregulation, frequent urination, etc.

 Wow!!..  This is the first time I have had someone report a similar pattern around this time, without the additional component of IBS to deal with.  

 

13 minutes ago, ten0275 said:

For people with mast cell issues, temperature changes, sunlight, perfumes/scents, and vigorous exercise can absolutely start the ball rolling

 

Again, this strikes so close to heart..  Season changes, sudden warm/cold spells, storms etc.. are definitely triggers.   

 

What helps you in coping with these symptoms? Do you take any medication/supplements? 

 

I am taking guduchi (supposedly a mast cell stabilizer) and ashwagandha for the last 3-4 months and it seems to be helping (I am having fewer all nighters, although I have had two this month already). The good thing is that it's taking a lot longer to trigger it, and it also appears to return to normal quicker - at least in winter.  As you noticed, I was doing well after the first year off, but since last spring, my food intolerance increased, first in April, and then in September, where I lost about 5lb each. Winter has been relatively calmer with better food tolerance, but I am dreading spring/summer if this follows the same pattern as last year..  It definitely seems to be related to the after-effects of mirtazapine on the H1 receptors, which play a major role in regulation of sympathetic activity (hence all the adrenaline rushes as I am falling asleep, with excessing burping etc.)

 

I hope others who have recovered share some more insight into the pattern of recovery from histamine intolerance.

 

 

 

 

 

Chronic IBS since 1990

Former smoker (1992- Jun 2017)

Prescribed mirtazapine for sleep in Aug 2017 after IBS flare-up following Nicotine cessation.

Mirtazapine 7.5mg 8/17 to 5/18

Mirtazapine 3.75mg 5/18 to 1/19

Off Mirtazapine since 2/19.

Vit B, Vit D+K2 and Magnesium Glycinate as needed.

On Ayurvedic herbs for GI issues - Guduchi since Jul 2020, Indukantham since Oct 2020

On Ashwagandha 1g since Nov 2020

 

 

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@tsranga

 

I truly do think this is more prevalent than reported. I've corresponded with a lot of people over the years who'd had the same or at least similar histamine/mast cell issues with Mirtazapine and its discontinuation.

 

I probably have some level of IBS-type symptoms as well. The multiple bowel movements for sure. I don't have abdominal pain nor any greater amount of flatulence. But during a flare-up, I will definitely have multiple bowel movements in fairly short order. My whole system is in full flux during those moments.

 

Noting the triggers has been something of a work in progress for me. Initially, I thought it was strictly a histamine-based issue and so focused entirely on the low histamine diet, along with good probiotics and some supplementation.

 

The low-histamine eating definitely helps. And now that I am realizing more and more my triggers, avoiding those (when possible) is a big help.

 

I have had good luck with Tulsi. I tolerate that well. Turmeric is something that I can utilize sometimes, other times it doesn't seem to help. Vitamin C in the form of Camu Camu has been very helpful for me and is super important for the breakdown of histamine. Some people take straight up quercetin, I've been having good luck with tart cherry extract in capsule form.

 

Looking up guduchi, that is something I would definitely consider. Ashwagandha is another I have heard of, but haven't tried.

 

Your pattern is really striking to me because it is so similar to mine. I have the occasional all-nighter myself. And like you, it seems the further out I get from the Mirtazapine, the more intense the actual issue is becoming. My days are usually fine - and most of my nights really. But I have these flare-ups, bucket tips, whatever they are and it is so intense. Sometimes there is a bit of a build-up - like I'll note a day or two before things go totally bad that I am feeling a bit off.

 

I'm sorry you are dealing with it too. I hope you find some comfort in the fact that this isn't totally isolated to you. I know reading that you are basically going through the exact same thing I am is a huge comfort to me. This is a story I have heard a lot, especially with Mirtazapine users - current and former.

 

Hang in there,

Dave

1996 - .5mg Ativan as needed, 7.5mg Remeron daily2008 - .5mg Xanax, Ativan discontinued, Remeron continued2012 - .5mg Xanax, .25mg Ativan 3x daily, Remeron continued2/2012 - Jumped from Remeron, continued .5mg Xanax .25mg Ativan 3x daily4/2012 - Began rapid taper of .5mg Xanax .25mg Ativan 3x daily6/2012 - Jumped from Xanax and Ativan, voluntary hospitalization followed7/2012 - 2nd voluntary hospitalization, reinstated Remeron, bumped to 30mg, also given risperidone.8/2012 - discontinued risperidone, tried gabapentin, dicontinued gabapentin, Remeron 30mg continued10/2012 to current - tapered Remeron 10% every 4 to 6 weeks (sometimes more time) using liquid compound12/2014 - 2mg Remeron 1/16/2015 - 1.9mg Remeron 8/1/2015 -1.6mg Remeron - 03/1/2016 - 1.5mg Remeron - 1/2/2017 1.3mg - 5/7/2017 1.2mg - 5/13/2017 - syringe size change - 6/8/2017 - 1.1mg - 7/10/2017 - 1mg - 9/1/2017 - 0.9mg - 10/22/2017 - 0.8mg - 11/22/2017 - 0.7mg - 2/2/2018 - 0.6mg - 3/13/2018 - new compound pharmacy - 5/20/2018 - 0.5mg - 8/31/2018 - 0.4mg - 11/16/2018 - 0.3mg - 12/24/2018 - 0.2mg - 4/1/2019 - 0.1mg - 5/1/2019 - .05mg - 0mg achieved 2019-06-15. 🤞

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It really helps to validate what we are going through isn't our wild imagination.

 

How is your sleep overall?  I find that if I can sleep before 10, I can get 2-3 hours of additional sleep. Otherwise I get a block of sleep between 11:30-4:30, and the 4:40-6am slot is spent in a mixed sleep/wake state - my brain is active and my limbs are locked. Like in REM (which my Fitbit reports), but I am aware of my thoughts and surrounding.

 

Chronic IBS since 1990

Former smoker (1992- Jun 2017)

Prescribed mirtazapine for sleep in Aug 2017 after IBS flare-up following Nicotine cessation.

Mirtazapine 7.5mg 8/17 to 5/18

Mirtazapine 3.75mg 5/18 to 1/19

Off Mirtazapine since 2/19.

Vit B, Vit D+K2 and Magnesium Glycinate as needed.

On Ayurvedic herbs for GI issues - Guduchi since Jul 2020, Indukantham since Oct 2020

On Ashwagandha 1g since Nov 2020

 

 

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I have always done well with 6hrs of sleep, and when things are going alright, that is what I get. I tend to get sleepy around 8:30pm and am sleeping by around 9:30pm. I'll sleep until 3:30am or 4:30am when things are settled. When I am going through one of the harder times, I fall asleep around 9:30pm per usual, but will wake up within an hour to an hour and a half with symptoms. Sometimes that will keep me up for an hour, other times it will be the all-nighter scenario.

 

I recently started reading a book titled "Mast Cells United: A Holistic Approach to Mast Cell Activation Syndrome" by Amber Walker. I see a lot of my own symptoms in what she experienced. Hers was was way more extreme, but there is no doubt in my mind that I am suffering from mast cell degranulation of both serotonin and histamine - which makes sense, right? Mirtazapine would have certainly affected both of those. I'm only about 15% through the book, but it is validating a lot of what I've experienced in the past couple years and is also giving me some really good insight into what tests I need to order when I next meet with my naturopath.

1996 - .5mg Ativan as needed, 7.5mg Remeron daily2008 - .5mg Xanax, Ativan discontinued, Remeron continued2012 - .5mg Xanax, .25mg Ativan 3x daily, Remeron continued2/2012 - Jumped from Remeron, continued .5mg Xanax .25mg Ativan 3x daily4/2012 - Began rapid taper of .5mg Xanax .25mg Ativan 3x daily6/2012 - Jumped from Xanax and Ativan, voluntary hospitalization followed7/2012 - 2nd voluntary hospitalization, reinstated Remeron, bumped to 30mg, also given risperidone.8/2012 - discontinued risperidone, tried gabapentin, dicontinued gabapentin, Remeron 30mg continued10/2012 to current - tapered Remeron 10% every 4 to 6 weeks (sometimes more time) using liquid compound12/2014 - 2mg Remeron 1/16/2015 - 1.9mg Remeron 8/1/2015 -1.6mg Remeron - 03/1/2016 - 1.5mg Remeron - 1/2/2017 1.3mg - 5/7/2017 1.2mg - 5/13/2017 - syringe size change - 6/8/2017 - 1.1mg - 7/10/2017 - 1mg - 9/1/2017 - 0.9mg - 10/22/2017 - 0.8mg - 11/22/2017 - 0.7mg - 2/2/2018 - 0.6mg - 3/13/2018 - new compound pharmacy - 5/20/2018 - 0.5mg - 8/31/2018 - 0.4mg - 11/16/2018 - 0.3mg - 12/24/2018 - 0.2mg - 4/1/2019 - 0.1mg - 5/1/2019 - .05mg - 0mg achieved 2019-06-15. 🤞

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Interesting.. I would make sure to differentiate between mast cell activation (immune system) and mirtazapine induced  neurotransmitter dysfunction (nervous system). My take is that it's the hypersensitive nervous system that is triggering a histamine overload. I have no history of allergic reactions, unlike those with mcas. 

 

I have never had issues with sleep - I would hit the bed anywhere anytime and fall asleep until I stopped smoking which triggered the IBS. It worsened after mirtazapine. 

 

I suspect the nicotine keeping my immune system suppressed, and an overreaction once I quit. Double whammy with mirtazapine.

 

Mast cells are in the skin, gut and respiratory system, which is where our physical symptoms seem to occur. The sleep is the odd one!!

 

Chronic IBS since 1990

Former smoker (1992- Jun 2017)

Prescribed mirtazapine for sleep in Aug 2017 after IBS flare-up following Nicotine cessation.

Mirtazapine 7.5mg 8/17 to 5/18

Mirtazapine 3.75mg 5/18 to 1/19

Off Mirtazapine since 2/19.

Vit B, Vit D+K2 and Magnesium Glycinate as needed.

On Ayurvedic herbs for GI issues - Guduchi since Jul 2020, Indukantham since Oct 2020

On Ashwagandha 1g since Nov 2020

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
marius76mc

 

Ten months after quitting mirtazapine I still have nightly issues probably connected with this histamine matter.

I tend to fall asleep at 9:30 - 10:30 pm, sleep very well and deep for 4:30 hours (three exact cycles of 1:30) and wake up with a kind of anxiety mini panic followed by a strange feel of sickness and nausea in my abdominal region.

 

I cannot describe it exactly but what it is strange it dissipates immediately if I get up and start moving around.

 

If I lay in bed it resides for around 20 minutes and after I struggle to fall asleep again.

Sometimes I fall asleep again in 30 minutes, other times in three hours and rarely I remain awaken till morning. 

 

At the moment I am doing a keto diet and noticed that this issue is stronger in the nights when I consume too many vegetables at dinner.

 

I have a personal topic connected with this issue but no replies on it, please have a look on it maybe your experience can give me a new lead to investigate.

I intend to search and read the book mentioned above about this mast cell activation syndrome.

June 2018 - January 2019 Clonazepam 0.25 mg - 2 x day
January 2019 - July 2019 Duloxetine + Busiprone 60 mg 1x - 10 mg 3x
July 2019 - April 2020 Mirtazapine 30 mg for 5 months than 4 months of taper by liquid method
April 2020 - present clear of any drug

All the period also tried different meds like carbamazepine, aripiprazol, sertraline, alprazolam, lorazepam, zolpiderm and zopiclone, trazodone on different terms

but gave them up due to side effects and no results.

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marius76mc
On 8/1/2016 at 4:57 PM, Katch said:

Hello all, this is very interesting thread. I have just came across this on Dr. Mercola website - it was a comment from one of the readers: 

 

One way that bacteria in the gut can cause anxiety and depression is by releasing large amounts of histamine. The body then must use up B6 to make DAO, the enzyme that degrades histamine in the gut and extracellular space in the body(not within cells). When there is a lot of histamine, all or nearly all of the B6 may be used, leaving little or none for making serotonin, since B6 is essential for making serotonin and this makes the person feel depressed. Another route for getting rid of histamine is adrenaline, so the body also releases adrenaline, making the person feel anxious. If the person has the capability of making DAO, but doesn't have enough B6 then the answer is to take enough B6 to make enough DAO to get rid of all that excess histamine. This is what has happened to my son, and taking P5P, the activated form of B6, was like a miracle for him. (100mg of regular B6 didn't do much for my son, so if you try this make sure you take enough.) If you don't remember your dreams, that may be a sign that you need more B6. If you take B6 and get extremely vivid dreams, then back off.

 

Has anyone tried B6? Any ideas/comments?

Kat

Having a look over this topic I stumbled upon this post that light the following connection.

 

Since adrenaline may be a way used by our body to get rid of histamine could this explain the withdrawal common symptom of frequently waking up during night ?

 

Depending on what we eat histamine is building up in the gut during the day and night and some moment during night the body is getting rid of it releasing some adrenaline, but due to the downregulation of our receptors this release its perceived by the body at a such amplified level that it alert us to wake up.

 

As mentioned in the above post nine months after quitting mirtazapine I have this constant middle night wake up with a little panic, anxiety moment followed immediately by a abdominal kind of discomfort and nausea and a spike of cortisol that makes me very alert and awaken despite of only 3 or 4 hours sleep.   And this in the condition that during day I have no anxiety or discomfort symptoms. 

 

Knowing that many people struggle with the nausea matter especially in the first weeks of mirtazapine withdrawal I guess it must have its role also in this delayed reaction.

 

Starting this week I will add some quercetin and black seeds oil to before going to bed supplements that I take and will let you know if in time there will be any results.

 

 

June 2018 - January 2019 Clonazepam 0.25 mg - 2 x day
January 2019 - July 2019 Duloxetine + Busiprone 60 mg 1x - 10 mg 3x
July 2019 - April 2020 Mirtazapine 30 mg for 5 months than 4 months of taper by liquid method
April 2020 - present clear of any drug

All the period also tried different meds like carbamazepine, aripiprazol, sertraline, alprazolam, lorazepam, zolpiderm and zopiclone, trazodone on different terms

but gave them up due to side effects and no results.

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Hello dear folks

 

I'm currently dealing with a weird symptoms and was wondering if I'm missing something or if someone might have tips.

 

It started this winter suddenly my throat tickles intensely and inhaling intensify the tickles.

It can wake me up during the night, or happens during the day.

My throat isn't painful, and I don't have a lump in my throat.

It just tickles and makes it difficult to inhale.

It seems to come in windows and waves.

 

Covid tests : negatives.

I don't smoke.

Doctors think it might be allergy, or "in my head".

 

I know that histamine issues can be a possibility with Paroxetine wd, but as I never had allergic issues or asthma in my life, I didn't really read about it.

 

As it can be a distressing symptom, and as it can play a role in anxiety (which is one of my main symptom), I started a low histamine diet on January 11 2021.

 

It's now been a month, I'm not seeing improvements, I'll keep going with the diet a few more months to see if it can improve.

 

Meantime, Im struggling with these tickles throat : does someone may recognize this symptom and perhaps have found tips to ease it ?

 

About low histamine diet : when you read testimonies on the internet, people seems to see improvements after 2/3 weeks. But these people are probably not in WD 😉

I'm all ears to hear testimonies of people in this community.

(Will paste this post in the histamine thread too).

 

I know that some recommend vitamin C, or nigella oil or quercetin, but to be honest, as I'm still dealing with high anxiety and restlessness, I haven't tried any new supplements.

 

Thank you in advance ☺

2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper

2018 to August 2019 : Paroxetine 20mg taper (3% every 15 days).

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg)

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

April 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details topic/21457-

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

 

Current medication :  7mg Fluoxetine (since 20 Aug 2020)

+ 1mg Diazepam (since 29 Aug 2020)

(Toothpick Paroxetine from September 2020 to 17th March 2021)

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Some advice needed ..  

 

The Autonomic function specialist hasn't responded about follow on tests.

 

I'm starting to wonder if I should avoid going down this path given where I am at, and the expected outcome from this testing.

 

Today's status -
1. Poor sleep - waking up between 3 and 6am consistently after 4-5 hours of sleep. Some nights (3-5 nights a month) I get no sleep due to flare ups (GI, hot/cold sensitivity, tired/wired, stuffy sinus).
2. Daytime anxiety (rumination, hyperawareness, brain fog), hot/cold regulation, GI issues - most days, with very occasional symptom-free days (I had 5 this month, which is the most in 6 months). Usually can function if I stick to a strict routine with lot of time to recuperate.  Still hard to do any new brain work (fight flight kicks in).
3. Very occasional days of dizziness (3-5 days / month)
 
Current plan - heal the gut through ayurveda, as most of my issues stem from the gut with the belief that healing my weakest/oldest condition should help everything else. 

 

From a conventional medicine perspective, everything points to autonomic dysfunction (GI motility, thermoregulation, vasomotor rhinitis, REM sleep disorder, orthostatic tolerance. The promise (based on the link below) is that they understand the connection, but it is unclear what the treatment would be (most likely drugs to treat each symptom?). 

 

The big question is - do I wait for the body to heal itself with my current protocol (I am hearing histamine related issues 5-8 years post withdrawal in the SA forum) or go down the conventional medicine approach to at least rule out/identify major issues and sticking to my current plan?

 

https://med.stanford.edu/neurology/divisions/autonomic/research.html

Chronic IBS since 1990

Former smoker (1992- Jun 2017)

Prescribed mirtazapine for sleep in Aug 2017 after IBS flare-up following Nicotine cessation.

Mirtazapine 7.5mg 8/17 to 5/18

Mirtazapine 3.75mg 5/18 to 1/19

Off Mirtazapine since 2/19.

Vit B, Vit D+K2 and Magnesium Glycinate as needed.

On Ayurvedic herbs for GI issues - Guduchi since Jul 2020, Indukantham since Oct 2020

On Ashwagandha 1g since Nov 2020

 

 

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brassmonkey

Hi Erell-- it's probably one of those winter, dry air things. My wife and I get them all the time for no reason. It can be a small muscle spasm, tiny bit of dust, or swallowing wrong with out noticing. I find menthol cough drops can help (Halls brand is good) or even hard candy can take the edge off. Give those a try and see what happens.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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@Erell  Have you ever had any reflux issues?  That can cause your throat to feel that way especially if sitting or lying down after food or drink intake, or just saliva to.

Otherwise I agree with Brass....the throat has lots of muscles and nerves.  When they get 

activated the muscles can spasm and tighten and give a feeling of not being able to breath and I have had it.  An ENT recommended sips of warm water to me and it always has worked.  Try the cough drops too.  Hope you feel better!

-Nardil 1976 < year, stopped. React to AD's. Klonopin .5BID 1990, 2.5mg til 2016

-Klonopin doubled Jan '16. Taper to 2.25mg May to Nov '16. Bad react to Lexapro, stop. React to Prevacid too, taper off. 

-November '16 Tapered .25mg Klonopin in hospital. Jan '17 started Viibryd, 20mg from Feb to June '17,     

-20mg to 10mg Viibryd from 3/25 to 6/10 2017, 12/15 10% Viibryd taper...back up next day

-Clonazepam 2mg to 1.85mg 4/14 '17 to end November; taper to 1mg Clonazepam in hospital 9/1 tp 9/14 '17

-Feb '18 Amiloride .25mg  5/18 off Amiloride d/t react. Clonaz compounded  

-4/27 '18 Viibryd 9.5mg, 6/11 9.0 mg, 1/27 '19 Viibryd 8.75mg, ; Clonazepam .2mg 530pm and .7mg 1130pm, Premarin .3mg 830PM CARAFATE QID 2/27/19 to 3/5/19

-July 6'19 1/2 10mg Claritin 230pm, stopped it about July 18, started Oct 11 '19, 

-7/27 Viibryd 8.5, 8/29 8.25, 10/24 8.0, 12/19 7.75, Feb '20 7.50, 3/20 7.25, 5/20 7.0, 6/20 6.75, 7/20 6.5, 8/20 6.25, 10/2 20 6.0, 11/25'20 5.75, 1/9/21 5.5, 2/23 5.25

-1015 AM Viibryd, vit D 4,000IU 130, 415 Clonazepam .2mg, 815 Premarin .3mg, 1015 Clonaz .7mg,

  1115 3t fish oil+D 1145 Castor Oil 650mg(4) 1230 Carafate 1/2GM,Methylated B Vit  1/week,Reacted Mag prn

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@marius76mc Hi Marius,

Sorry about your sleep issues.  I used to wake in the night sweating and all even before the tapering.  I believe it to be cortisol spikes...when it happens it is between 6 to 7 hours into my sleep.  My calm place and breathing help some.  

I have problems with histamine but also sulphur and they, for me, are r/t SIBO and genetic variants.  I have had trouble with vitamins over my lifetime and lots and lots of other things because of these variants that affect methylation, sulphur, vitamin D, the catecholamines including adrenaline(which affects adrenals which affects cortisol), dopamine etc etc.  All I can say is the pathways and all the interconnections are intricate and sensitive.  If you go it alone I would suggest to start things slowly and see how your body reacts.  I wish I had done the testing years and years ago...sure answered lost of questions for me.  Im grateful to have found a doctor who deals with all my issues and is helping me find a way forward.  Take care.  Hope you feel better!

The cortisol spikes are something many many here deal with r/t their tapering.  You are in good company and can get good information on that subject here.💜

-Nardil 1976 < year, stopped. React to AD's. Klonopin .5BID 1990, 2.5mg til 2016

-Klonopin doubled Jan '16. Taper to 2.25mg May to Nov '16. Bad react to Lexapro, stop. React to Prevacid too, taper off. 

-November '16 Tapered .25mg Klonopin in hospital. Jan '17 started Viibryd, 20mg from Feb to June '17,     

-20mg to 10mg Viibryd from 3/25 to 6/10 2017, 12/15 10% Viibryd taper...back up next day

-Clonazepam 2mg to 1.85mg 4/14 '17 to end November; taper to 1mg Clonazepam in hospital 9/1 tp 9/14 '17

-Feb '18 Amiloride .25mg  5/18 off Amiloride d/t react. Clonaz compounded  

-4/27 '18 Viibryd 9.5mg, 6/11 9.0 mg, 1/27 '19 Viibryd 8.75mg, ; Clonazepam .2mg 530pm and .7mg 1130pm, Premarin .3mg 830PM CARAFATE QID 2/27/19 to 3/5/19

-July 6'19 1/2 10mg Claritin 230pm, stopped it about July 18, started Oct 11 '19, 

-7/27 Viibryd 8.5, 8/29 8.25, 10/24 8.0, 12/19 7.75, Feb '20 7.50, 3/20 7.25, 5/20 7.0, 6/20 6.75, 7/20 6.5, 8/20 6.25, 10/2 20 6.0, 11/25'20 5.75, 1/9/21 5.5, 2/23 5.25

-1015 AM Viibryd, vit D 4,000IU 130, 415 Clonazepam .2mg, 815 Premarin .3mg, 1015 Clonaz .7mg,

  1115 3t fish oil+D 1145 Castor Oil 650mg(4) 1230 Carafate 1/2GM,Methylated B Vit  1/week,Reacted Mag prn

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Hello

 

@brassmonkey : thank you for sharing your experience. I find that sometimes some honey with warm water helps, I might trie some candies !

@Rabe : oh wow, thank you for sharing your input with me. I absolutely didn't think about acid reflux. But the fact is that, even if it has improved, I have struggled with intense acid reflux in 2019/2020.
So you're right, it is a possibility that my throat/esophagus is now very sensitive and perhaps swollen causing this tickling and difficulty to inhale symptom.
So thank you because I was only thinking about a possible allergy.
I'm already avoiding foods that seem to intensify my acid reflux, but I'm gonna do some researches and see if I can take care of my throat gently (meaning no interactions with WD ;) ).

2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper

2018 to August 2019 : Paroxetine 20mg taper (3% every 15 days).

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg)

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

April 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details topic/21457-

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

 

Current medication :  7mg Fluoxetine (since 20 Aug 2020)

+ 1mg Diazepam (since 29 Aug 2020)

(Toothpick Paroxetine from September 2020 to 17th March 2021)

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marius76mc

@Erell A few years ago I have had a gastroscopy as I had an unpleasant feeling in my throat and esophagus. It proved that the real problem was located in the duodenal bulb but the nerves were manifesting themselves in a different part. It was also related somehow with acid reflux. Now I know that the acid reflux is mainly a problem on too high pH in the stomach and generally it can be easily fix with apple cider vinegar or betain HCL which reduce the pH level to normal and so makes the stomach entry from esophagus to stay correctly closed.

 

@Rabe Both cortisol and histamine were my priority topic researches during all my withdrawal. Now I have on my to do list a DNA check for the bad variants of genes in order to tweak the last symptoms. Comparing with the first months of withdrawal present morning cortisol awakening response is pretty mild so things have settled with the pass of time. Though there is still something there happening and its related to digestion during 01:30 - 03:00 am. According to Chinese medicine this is the period when the liver is most active in doing its chemical factory job. 

June 2018 - January 2019 Clonazepam 0.25 mg - 2 x day
January 2019 - July 2019 Duloxetine + Busiprone 60 mg 1x - 10 mg 3x
July 2019 - April 2020 Mirtazapine 30 mg for 5 months than 4 months of taper by liquid method
April 2020 - present clear of any drug

All the period also tried different meds like carbamazepine, aripiprazol, sertraline, alprazolam, lorazepam, zolpiderm and zopiclone, trazodone on different terms

but gave them up due to side effects and no results.

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How long have you been dealing with this?  I a having some of the exact same symptoms. 

 

Meds: Paroxetine, Hydrocodone, k flex, Xanax, Amatriptline, Gabapentin

1998-Apr 2020 Paroxetine 30mg.  04/20 2-week taper off, 0ff 6 weeks -05/20 reinstated 20mg,  Paroxetine - Cymbalta Cross taper attempt 04/20 - 30mg - Cut CT after 6-7 weeks.   Around 06/19 started Paroxetine taper from 30mg by cutting and eyeballing - By 08/19 symptoms started 09/19 - 04/20 = 3 back surgeries thinking symptoms were spine related.  During that time was on and off opiods after each operation, Gabapentin 300 mg daily for about 6-8 weeks, K flex / Flexeril - once before bedtime 04/19 - 05/20, Xanax as needed for past 3 years - stopped 04/20, ( usually twice per week ), Amatriptline 10mg for aprox 6 weeks = off since aprox 02/20.  Currently Tapered all the way down to 1 mg Hydro daily and 20mg Paroxetine - In severe withdrawals. Was taking .5 Hydro 2 times daily.   Spread it out to 3 then 4 times daily to avoid inter dose withdrawal.   Taking .5 hydroo 4 times daily. - 2mg daily.    Spread Paroxetine to twice daily.  10 mg at 7 am and at 3:00 PM for a total of 20 mg daily.  04/13/2021 Paroxetine 10mg twice daily (total 20mg )  7:00 am and 7:00 pm.  

 

 

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Since I stopped mirtazapine. Two years. 

Chronic IBS since 1990

Former smoker (1992- Jun 2017)

Prescribed mirtazapine for sleep in Aug 2017 after IBS flare-up following Nicotine cessation.

Mirtazapine 7.5mg 8/17 to 5/18

Mirtazapine 3.75mg 5/18 to 1/19

Off Mirtazapine since 2/19.

Vit B, Vit D+K2 and Magnesium Glycinate as needed.

On Ayurvedic herbs for GI issues - Guduchi since Jul 2020, Indukantham since Oct 2020

On Ashwagandha 1g since Nov 2020

 

 

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@tsranga

 

Merged similar topics.

2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper

2018 to August 2019 : Paroxetine 20mg taper (3% every 15 days).

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg)

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

April 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details topic/21457-

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

 

Current medication :  7mg Fluoxetine (since 20 Aug 2020)

+ 1mg Diazepam (since 29 Aug 2020)

(Toothpick Paroxetine from September 2020 to 17th March 2021)

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tsranga

Chronic IBS since 1990

Former smoker (1992- Jun 2017)

Prescribed mirtazapine for sleep in Aug 2017 after IBS flare-up following Nicotine cessation.

Mirtazapine 7.5mg 8/17 to 5/18

Mirtazapine 3.75mg 5/18 to 1/19

Off Mirtazapine since 2/19.

Vit B, Vit D+K2 and Magnesium Glycinate as needed.

On Ayurvedic herbs for GI issues - Guduchi since Jul 2020, Indukantham since Oct 2020

On Ashwagandha 1g since Nov 2020

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/25/2021 at 9:49 AM, marius76mc said:

@Rabe Both cortisol and histamine were my priority topic researches during all my withdrawal. Now I have on my to do list a DNA check for the bad variants of genes in order to tweak the last symptoms. Comparing with the first months of withdrawal present morning cortisol awakening response is pretty mild so things have settled with the pass of time. Though there is still something there happening and its related to digestion during 01:30 - 03:00 am. According to Chinese medicine this is the period when the liver is most active in doing its chemical factory job. 

Hi Marius. I found that last sentence re the liver so interesting as it is a big detoxer and I have issues with my digestive system right now including SIBO.  Thanks for sharing that.  Im so glad to hear your cortisol awakening has improved!!  Yay!!  Hope it continues!  Take care!💜

 

-Nardil 1976 < year, stopped. React to AD's. Klonopin .5BID 1990, 2.5mg til 2016

-Klonopin doubled Jan '16. Taper to 2.25mg May to Nov '16. Bad react to Lexapro, stop. React to Prevacid too, taper off. 

-November '16 Tapered .25mg Klonopin in hospital. Jan '17 started Viibryd, 20mg from Feb to June '17,     

-20mg to 10mg Viibryd from 3/25 to 6/10 2017, 12/15 10% Viibryd taper...back up next day

-Clonazepam 2mg to 1.85mg 4/14 '17 to end November; taper to 1mg Clonazepam in hospital 9/1 tp 9/14 '17

-Feb '18 Amiloride .25mg  5/18 off Amiloride d/t react. Clonaz compounded  

-4/27 '18 Viibryd 9.5mg, 6/11 9.0 mg, 1/27 '19 Viibryd 8.75mg, ; Clonazepam .2mg 530pm and .7mg 1130pm, Premarin .3mg 830PM CARAFATE QID 2/27/19 to 3/5/19

-July 6'19 1/2 10mg Claritin 230pm, stopped it about July 18, started Oct 11 '19, 

-7/27 Viibryd 8.5, 8/29 8.25, 10/24 8.0, 12/19 7.75, Feb '20 7.50, 3/20 7.25, 5/20 7.0, 6/20 6.75, 7/20 6.5, 8/20 6.25, 10/2 20 6.0, 11/25'20 5.75, 1/9/21 5.5, 2/23 5.25

-1015 AM Viibryd, vit D 4,000IU 130, 415 Clonazepam .2mg, 815 Premarin .3mg, 1015 Clonaz .7mg,

  1115 3t fish oil+D 1145 Castor Oil 650mg(4) 1230 Carafate 1/2GM,Methylated B Vit  1/week,Reacted Mag prn

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  • 1 month later...

@tsranga, thanks for the link,It is very helpful:)

On 2/24/2021 at 6:55 PM, tsranga said:

I am hearing histamine related issues 5-8 years post withdrawal in the SA forum

Thanks for that as well. I was wondering if this is something I will have to deal with my whole life. I would love to read more opinions/experiences about that.

March 2019: 10mg Citalopram

April 2019: 20mg Citalopram

October/November 2019(sorry, I don't remember the exact date): 10mg of Citalopram without tapering, as suggested by my pharmacist. 

March 2020: Started "tapering", taking the 10mg of Citalopram every other day, again, following the recommendations of my pharmacist. 

April 2020: Stopped taking Citalopram.

I haven't reinstall since then. I've tried taking Magnesium a couple of times, but I found out it makes me nervous. I only take Paracetemol when the headache becomes unbearable (2gr every couple of weeks or so). 

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Speaking of histamine intolerance symptoms, does anyone know if autonomic dysfunction in withdrawal is a manifestation of histamine, serotonin and adrenaline dysregulation?

 

I have had IBS for a while, but never had rhinitis or allergies, but got sensitive to gluten after I stopped smoking, and tests showed high histamine reactivity to gluten when I was on mirtazapine.. 

 

In withdrawal, I notice most of my flares relate to GI tract motility (esophagus, colon, spinsters), vasomotor rhinitis, and vasomotor function in general (different parts of the body heating and cooling, flushing, tingling, spasms etc). And the biggest triggers are drastic weather/temp changes.

 

When I read up on autonomic function, a lot of these are implicated.   I had none of these issues other than the other ibs bloating and burping before mirtazapine. 

Chronic IBS since 1990

Former smoker (1992- Jun 2017)

Prescribed mirtazapine for sleep in Aug 2017 after IBS flare-up following Nicotine cessation.

Mirtazapine 7.5mg 8/17 to 5/18

Mirtazapine 3.75mg 5/18 to 1/19

Off Mirtazapine since 2/19.

Vit B, Vit D+K2 and Magnesium Glycinate as needed.

On Ayurvedic herbs for GI issues - Guduchi since Jul 2020, Indukantham since Oct 2020

On Ashwagandha 1g since Nov 2020

 

 

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