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King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

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peng

Yes, I take 4/day.

What's your view on no DHA, and the formulation of the product I was talked into, scallywag? - I can handle it! :mellow:

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scallywag

Not having done any research about DHA vs EPA, I don't really have an opinion about it. Surprising, no?  ;)

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Lakelander82

Does anybody get Angular Cheilitis when taking high strength fish oil especially if also taking a Multivitamin?

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scallywag

Lakelander, Would you describe the symptoms of the condition you mention, Angular Cheilitis?

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Lakelander82

Lakelander, Would you describe the symptoms of the condition you mention, Angular Cheilitis?

Sores/ red and cracked skin at corners of mouth/lips- google images will illustrate my point. It's apparently linked to hypervitaminosis A but the fish oil I'm taking doesn't have any vitamin A. My hunch is that it's the excessive vitamin E in the fish oil and Multivitamin that's causing it.

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Dee22

I'm one of those who gets jittery from fish oil but I have felt in the past it does help with mood cumulatively. I read that someone had mentioned cod liver oil might be a better choice for people who are sensitive. Has anyone had a better eperience with one type over another?

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nick1990

I have taken random fish oil supplements for years, but am really concerned about the quality of the fish. Mercury levels etc, and i also hate commercial fishing!!!!  , As i live in NZ and live on the beach, i am largely considering stopping fish oil supplements and gather my fish from the ocean (fishing and diving)  .. Do you think that eating fresh fish a couple of times a week would be as beneficial as taking omega supplements ? I know it depends on the species and the colour of the flesh..

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scallywag

There are those who believe getting Omega 3 fish oil from the fish itself is a superior method of getting this important nutrient.

To avoid the issues with pollutant contamination, it's best to eat low on the food chain -- so small cold-water ocean-going fishies like anchovy and herring. Given the temperatures of the water around NZ, I'm not sure how much Omega 3 you'll get around NZ.

 

I really like the work of Shou-Ching Shih Jaminet and Paul Jaminet of perfecthealthdiet.com; both have science doctorates. In the face of significant health issues, they pored through the available research for causes and nutritional solutions.

 

Here are the search results for "omega 3" on their site: https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Aperfecthealthdiet.com%20%22omega%203%22

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DC112

Has anyone heard of Barleans omega 3 syrup? This is what I take. Does this absorb like the pills?

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scallywag

From the magnesium topic:

Is there any harm in taking fish oil and magnesium at the same time?

No, just start them one at a time. If you have a negative reaction and you've started both of them at the same time you won't know which is causing the reaction.

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Bluesjunky76

Hi, so recently I've added fish oil (Ultimate Omega, Nordic Naturals) to my routine because I've read how much Omega 3's can aid in recovery from antidepressants. I was eating fish 2-3 times a week and getting omegas from other sources like flaxseeds fairly often, but I figured supplementing might offer greater benefit. And after about a week of taking the supplements I noticed a definite improvement in what I call the 'SSRI Blahs,' that insufferable, empty feeling I would get at random times--blunted emotions and the like. Whenever I get that way, I make myself engage with other people or exercise or meditate or whatever--anything to break things up and balance me out again. So I was pretty pumped that the fish oil was helping. But after a couple more weeks I started having a lot more trouble sleeping. I simultaneously felt a lot better but also a little bit too keyed up. I've since googled 'fish oil and insomnia' and discovered many other people have encountered this same issue. I've temporarily stopped taking it (sleep immediately improved), but I'm hoping to come back in a week or so at half the dose because there were definitely some positives I experienced. Anybody else have a similar experience with fish oil? 

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Jayjohnny

Omega 3 are amazing but one thing people rarely talk about: most EPA/DHA supplements are NOT the same as getting omega 3 s from sources such as salmon. I took fish oil supplements for a long time and felt no difference or benefits whatsoever. Yet, when i eat actual salmon i feel a powerful difference. In fact, studies have proven that taking O3 supplements just isn't as beneficial as eating wild caught fish such as salmon or sardines. Why? The heavy processing and distillation changes the natural integrity of the oil...even if they say it doesnt. Secondly, it is no surprise that most O3 supplements in pill or liquid form need to be distilled so heavily considering where most are sourced from: polluted waters off the coast of chile and Peru!!

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snostorm

Recently tried a high EPA fish oil with very negative effect. I have been on fish oil before with no negative effect. Wondering if the break down of EPA DHA concentration had anything to do with it.

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JP904

okay, so I tried fish oil and I experienced some benefits but also disadvantages. It made my head foggy, which made me anxious because I was working and had to multitask. It also made my chest tighten up. However, it also at the same time sort of made my body feel calm and it gave me some great feeling energy. I feel the benefits outweighed the disadvantages, but I'm concerned that the increase in symptoms will negatively impact my healing. Does anyone have any advice on this? 

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Altostrata

When do you take it and how much? Perhaps you might take a lower dose, only once a day, in the morning if it gives you energy or the evening if it is soothing.

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JP904

I only took one 500 mg with 200 EPA and 150 DHA. It says I can take 3 per day. It really made me feel the best I've felt in a while. I even felt better the next day even though I didn't take one the next day. 

 

I suppose I could probably cut it open and measure it and take half. I might have fish oil breath but who cares hah

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nick1990

Alto - im really on the fence at the moment as to whether to continue with dha supplements.. im really struggling to find any concrete evidence supporting the cognitive benefits of it. I may be missing something, could you point me in the direction of any ? Many thanks

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JanCarol

I looked at this BBC article - it looks like a good basic article, even though they didn't tell us how much fish oil they used in the fish oil group, nor did they tell us how much or what type of fish was used in the "oily fish" category.

 

Additionally, I found it encouraging that only 1 of the 10 fish oil supplements were found to be rancid.  I'm guessing that the UK, like Australia, only offers natural triglycerides over the counter, and requires "practitioner license" for ethyl ester grade fish oil.

 

* * *

 

Nick1990 - I just quoted some Consumer Labs reports for mood benefits in this post:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/page-12?p=247063#entry247063

 

Let me see if I can find something for cognitive in my bag'o'tricks:  

 

Consumer Labs references a number of studies for age related cognitive decline - 

 

  • EPA/DHA reduced depression in cognitively impaired individuals.  Depression increases rate of cognitive decline.   (Sinn, Br J Nutr 2011)
  •  24 weeks of 900 mg DHA from algae of placebo showed significant improvements in verbal recognition (but not working memory or executive function.  (Yurko-Mauro, Alzheimers & Dementia 2010)
  • Several hundred 70-80 year old individuals measured brain volume.  Those who reported using fish oil, had plumper brains.  (Daiello, Alzheimer's & Dementia)
  • B Vitamins in combination with Fish Oil - mood was beneficially affected from the B vitamins, only while taking the fish oil.
  • They did not directly reduce cognitive decline in Alzheimer's & Age Related Decline in a 5 year study (age 73)

Memory enhancement: 

  • Healthy Young adults, better working memory is correlated with higher levels of DHA, but not EPA.  6 month trial improved a memory test for numbers and letters  2000 iu per day.   (Narendran, PLoS One 2012).  
  • Another 6 month study in healthy young adults (who didn't eat Omega 3's in diet) found that a DHA 1160 EPA 170 MG had improved memory performance.  (Stonehouse, Am J Clin Nutr 2013)  Women's memory improved better than men, by about 20%.
  • Another placebo-controlled study 65 healthy adults aged 50-75 years, 6 months of fish oil resulted in a 26% increase in executive functioning (verbal fluency, visual tasks, reading ability).  Memory didn't improve, but memory consolidation did (recall after 30 min delay).  Significant gains were found in structure and volume of tissue in several areas of the brain, as well as improvements in carotid artery lining, and a 3.4% reduction in diastolic blood pressure.  Trial used 4000 IU "just plain" fish oil daily.  (Witte, Cereb Cortex 2013).

 

The way I look at it - unless you are eating coldwater oily fish 3-5x a week, you've got nothing to lose by taking fish oil.

 

When I hear studies about increased volume in the brain, I get excited, and wonder how many of us have starved our brain of these beautiful oils?

 

Personally, I am loathe to stop fish oil.  Ever.  I like a "plump brain."

Edited by JanCarol
removed reference to conflict.

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nick1990

Thanks alot for that Jan. Appreciate it! I do wonder about the a cumulative effects of toxins in the fish. It is concerning!! What do you think about algae supplements instead? I also hate commercial fishing haha so its a mix of moral dilemma and health concerns. Many thanks Jan :)

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Altostrata

Purchase a fish oil that has been molecularly distilled to remove contaminants.

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kateinsocal

Don't take fish oil if you're allergic to fish.

 

For those who cannot take fish oil, Dr. Weil has these recommendations at http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA400645/Vegetarian-Sources-of-Omega3.html (from 2009)

Hi!

 

I had a horrible reaction to the Omega 3s (i made sure I bought high quality ones). Experienced debilitating depression and anxiety, couldn't get out of bed, ended up in urgent care.

Here's a great link that explains why some people negative reactions.

 

Your link to other alternatives is dead - any chance you remember what the recommendations were?

Edited by scallywag
edit irrelevant portion of quoted text

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ChessieCat

Here's one that I found:  vegetarian-sources-of-omega-3

 

"but vegans and others whose diets don’t include fish can substitute Neuromins DHA, a product which is extracted from carefully grown microalgae (vegans can break the gelatin capsule to get the oil). Taking 400 to 600 mg a day of Neuromins DHA and relying on dietary sources of ALA is probably the best vegan strategy for getting omega-3s. A daily handful of walnuts or one to two tablespoons of freshly ground flaxseed per day provide ALA."

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nicolantana

Hey folks......I am ten days into fish oil/magnesium supplementation

 

I have been suffering from anhedonia/dulled brain etc....I have the occasional window.glimmer of hope..

 

however, since supplementation.....I haven't had a any spark...the past ten day have been worse than the previous period...

 

it's probably purely coincidental but is there a chance of these supplements having an adverse reaction on your recovery????

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ChessieCat

If you started fish oil and magnesium at the same time you won't be able to pinpoint which is causing the issue, if it is one of those.  The only way to find out would be to stop both, have a break from them and then try a small amount of one of them and then slowly increase the dose.  Once you know whether you are okay taking that one, then you do the same with the other supplement.

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Dee22

For those who can not tolerate fish oil, I made a little connection which may support the reasoning.

 

I have always linked my depression to excess acetylcholine. I actually don't have depression unless I have anxiety of a prolonged period of time. Increased stress, increases acetylcholine and when acetylcholine is too high, serotonin lowers and vice versa (they need to be equally balanced). https://bbrfoundation.org/discoveries/potential-root-cause-of-depression-discovered-by-narsad-grantee

 

Fish oil raises acetylcholine, so if fish oil is activating for you, you might need to consider acetylcholine as the culprit and possibly the root cause of your depression, especially if you're the anxious type. 

http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/03/20/fish-oil-causing-depression-or-anxiety-consider-acetylcholine/

 

 

 

 

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manymoretodays

Woah......I'm really surprised........I can see that if you get some toxic stuff......yah, you might react.......but to hear that people actually attribute getting worse(depression and anxiety) on omega 3's surprises me.......and then subsequent theories around it.  Who knew?  So.......the old advice around here of one new thing at a time is a really good idea is confirmed.......so you know what correlates with what.  I just know that as a group(psycho drug withdrawlers) we can be highly sensitive. 

 

It took me awhile to try back some omega 3's and it's gone well.  I just do about 1200 combined DHA and EPA, kept in the freezer.  I found that 3000, for me, led to easy bruising, and room temperature capsules to fish farts(pardon....don't know how else to word that one).

 

 

thank you,

 

I thought of this strategy.

 

But I'm wondering if there is evidence of other people being negatively impacted by said supplements???

I had an adverse reaction to fish oil last weekend and ended up in urgent care. This article helped me to affirm my suspicions. 

 

 

How do you know that it was the Omega 3's vs. W/D stuff?  What was your adverse reaction if you don't mind saying?  Glad you are okay.

 

I'm one who has been positively impacted by using magnesium and omega 3's through W/D.  I find them both helpful.  I do realize that we all can be pretty variable though.

 

mmt

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kateinsocal

For those who can not tolerate fish oil, I made a little connection which may support the reasoning.

 

I have always linked my depression to excess acetylcholine. I actually don't have depression unless I have anxiety of a prolonged period of time. Increased stress, increases acetylcholine and when acetylcholine is too high, serotonin lowers and vice versa (they need to be equally balanced). https://bbrfoundation.org/discoveries/potential-root-cause-of-depression-discovered-by-narsad-grantee

 

Fish oil raises acetylcholine, so if fish oil is activating for you, you might need to consider acetylcholine as the culprit and possibly the root cause of your depression, especially if you're the anxious type. 

http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/03/20/fish-oil-causing-depression-or-anxiety-consider-acetylcholine/

This is fascinating!

Is there any way to test the level of acetylcholine in your brain? Are there any natural ways to lower it? 

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kateinsocal

Woah......I'm really surprised........I can see that if you get some toxic stuff......yah, you might react.......but to hear that people actually attribute getting worse(depression and anxiety) on omega 3's surprises me.......and then subsequent theories around it.  Who knew?  So.......the old advice around here of one new thing at a time is a really good idea is confirmed.......so you know what correlates with what.  I just know that as a group(psycho drug withdrawlers) we can be highly sensitive. 

 

It took me awhile to try back some omega 3's and it's gone well.  I just do about 1200 combined DHA and EPA, kept in the freezer.  I found that 3000, for me, led to easy bruising, and room temperature capsules to fish farts(pardon....don't know how else to word that one).

 

 

thank you,

 

I thought of this strategy.

 

But I'm wondering if there is evidence of other people being negatively impacted by said supplements???

I had an adverse reaction to fish oil last weekend and ended up in urgent care. This article helped me to affirm my suspicions. 

 

 

How do you know that it was the Omega 3's vs. W/D stuff?  What was your adverse reaction if you don't mind saying?  Glad you are okay.

 

I'm one who has been positively impacted by using magnesium and omega 3's through W/D.  I find them both helpful.  I do realize that we all can be pretty variable though.

 

mmt

Honestly, it's my best guess as to what happened based on the following pattern: 

 

Wed, 2/15 - first day on lower dose, symptoms peaked, 7-8 in intensity whereas they had been about a 4 the day before.

Thurs, 2/16 - first day on re-up dose, symptom subsided, 3-4 in intensity. 

Fri, 2/17 - same as Thurs - 3-4 in intensity, until I took fish oil at night - symptoms spiked up to 5. 

Sat, 2/18 - took one in the am, symptoms higher, up to 6 in intensity, took more, up to 7-8 in intensity at night

Sun, 2/19 - symptoms at a 9, couldn't get out of bed, went to urgent care -  suspected the tie, didn't take any more. By sunday night I was down to a 6-7.

Mon, 2/20 - symptoms at a 5-6, by night I was down to a 4. 

Tues 2/21- present - symptoms peaked at 3-4, but mostly hover around 2 these past couple days.

 

Is there any concrete way to guarantee this is what it was...probably not...but I had never experienced debilitating depression before EVER so I figured it could only come from the one new thing I had introduced. 

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Dee22

Just like any neurotransmitter, it's hard to measure as the available testing in controversial in regards to accuracy. There is talk about an "idea" for a medication that targets just that although nothing is currently available.

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manymoretodays

 

Woah......I'm really surprised........I can see that if you get some toxic stuff......yah, you might react.......but to hear that people actually attribute getting worse(depression and anxiety) on omega 3's surprises me.......and then subsequent theories around it.  Who knew?  So.......the old advice around here of one new thing at a time is a really good idea is confirmed.......so you know what correlates with what.  I just know that as a group(psycho drug withdrawlers) we can be highly sensitive. 

 

It took me awhile to try back some omega 3's and it's gone well.  I just do about 1200 combined DHA and EPA, kept in the freezer.  I found that 3000, for me, led to easy bruising, and room temperature capsules to fish farts(pardon....don't know how else to word that one).

 

 

thank you,

 

I thought of this strategy.

 

But I'm wondering if there is evidence of other people being negatively impacted by said supplements???

I had an adverse reaction to fish oil last weekend and ended up in urgent care. This article helped me to affirm my suspicions. 

 

 

How do you know that it was the Omega 3's vs. W/D stuff?  What was your adverse reaction if you don't mind saying?  Glad you are okay.

 

I'm one who has been positively impacted by using magnesium and omega 3's through W/D.  I find them both helpful.  I do realize that we all can be pretty variable though.

 

mmt

Honestly, it's my best guess as to what happened based on the following pattern: 

 

Wed, 2/15 - first day on lower dose, symptoms peaked, 7-8 in intensity whereas they had been about a 4 the day before.

Thurs, 2/16 - first day on re-up dose, symptom subsided, 3-4 in intensity. 

Fri, 2/17 - same as Thurs - 3-4 in intensity, until I took fish oil at night - symptoms spiked up to 5. 

Sat, 2/18 - took one in the am, symptoms higher, up to 6 in intensity, took more, up to 7-8 in intensity at night

Sun, 2/19 - symptoms at a 9, couldn't get out of bed, went to urgent care -  suspected the tie, didn't take any more. By sunday night I was down to a 6-7.

Mon, 2/20 - symptoms at a 5-6, by night I was down to a 4. 

Tues 2/21- present - symptoms peaked at 3-4, but mostly hover around 2 these past couple days.

 

Is there any concrete way to guarantee this is what it was...probably not...but I had never experienced debilitating depression before EVER so I figured it could only come from the one new thing I had introduced. 

 

 

Okay thanks.  I guess I was wondering if it was anxiety.  You were updosing the omega 3's or the Paxil(in the list you posted above)?  But yah.......agreed no concrete way to guarantee what was from what.......I think if you feel strongly it was the omega 3's though that you are probably correct.  We are usually our own best diagnosticians that way. :)

 

Best,

 

mmt

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DoctorMussyWasHere

Can I ask for a recommendation between two (or four) products from the same manufacturer?

 

Please feel free to reject them all if not suitable. Normally I'd take the time to research this thoroughly, but we've just come round to accepting that this may not be pseudoscience, however this topic has run onto 13 pages and time is of the essence.

 

Eternally grateful for your support.

 

 

Sol-Oil Omega 3 & 6

Fish oil omega 3 extract (triglyceride form) 1333mg Borage Oil (Cold Pressed) 667mg This supplies:
Omega 3 fatty acids, namely:   EPA 680mg DHA 120mg Omega 6 fatty acids, namely:   GLA 114mg

 

- OR -

 

Omega-3 Double Strength

Fish oil (concentrate) 1000mg
of which: Omega-3 fats:   EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid) 510mg DHA (docosahexaenoic acid) 90mg

 

Or perhaps:

 

Fish Oil Extract Omega 3

Fish oil extract (triglyceride form) 1000mg of which total Omega 3 fatty acids 300mg EPA 160mg DHA 100mg Vitamin E 12mg

 

- or -

 

Krill Oil Omega-3

Krill Oil yeilding 500mg Omega-3 fatty acids 110mg of which   EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid) 60mg DHA (docosahexaenoic acid) 27.5mg Marine phospholipids 225mg Astaxanthin (antioxidant) 25μg

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Dwell

As with KatieinCALI , I took fish oil for 2 weeks. I took half the recommended dose which equalled 600 mg combined EPA/DHA. At first I felt good results my anxiety calmed slightly brain fog seemed better. Then major depression and increased SI. I forgot my fish oil for 2 days and felt really good. I thought it was still feeling good from the fish oil so i took it again for 2 days and immediately felt horrible and insomnia. From the link Katie provided I see this could be the issue.

 

 

Acetylcholine Theory

 

 

 

Perhaps the primary culprit for the worsening of your depression (or anxiety) as a result of fish oil supplementation is the neurotransmission of acetylcholine. Many researchers believe that supplementation of fish oil tends to increase extracellular levels of acetylcholine, a neurotransmitter involved in processing sensory information, recall memory, vigilance, and learning.

 

For individuals with abnormally low levels of acetylcholine, fish oil supplements will likely provide tremendous benefit. Chronically low levels of acetylcholine are associated with neurodegenerative diseases and cognitive deficits. However, among those who already have high levels of acetylcholine, (or in those who are sensitive to acetylcholine), fish oil may compound the existing problem.

 

Just a year ago, scientists discovered that when mice were given an SSRI, the drug increased levels of acetylcholinesterase (an enzyme that breaks down acetylcholine). By increasing acetylcholinesterase, you’ll lower levels of acetylcholine. The scientists speculated that although serotonin increase may help depression, reducing high acetylcholine may also be responsible for some of the antidepressant effect from an SSRI.

 

If fish oil is elevating your acetylcholine levels and acetylcholinesterase levels are low (or staying the same), you may end up feeling more anxious (and/or depressed) as a result of the supplementation. Those who are sensitive to the effects of fish oil supplements may need to discontinue in hopes that acetylcholine levels naturally decrease.

 

 

 

Now a few days off slowly feeling better. I am not saying I won't try this again when I am healed for better health and brain function. I think right now for me it's a bad idea. I am glad it helps some as I wish I could find something to help. I am still currently on 25 mg of buspar which could be causing increased acetylcholine.

Edited by Dwell

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Dwell

Still being on medication could be a major factor Or even being not too far into withdrawl.

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Sheri755

This is from Alto's first post on this thread.  Does this mean that I should take Vitamin E at the same time as I take each fish oil? (I take one in the morning and one in the afternoon.) or should I take 400 mg Vitamin E with one of the doses and none with the second dose?   I'm assuming just one but my OCD has me asking.

 

"To help fish oil to work, take it with 400IU vitamin E per day. This helps metabolize the fish oil. Good types of vitamin E to take are d-alpha-tocopherol and natural mixed tocopherols"

 

Thank you!

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Altostrata

You need to take only 400IU vit E per day, at any time.

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