Jump to content
Barbarannamated

Neuro-Emotions: Deep despair, dread, doom, horror

Recommended Posts

Barbarannamated

Most of us have expressed feeling dread, especially upon awakening. Depression (outside of withdrawal) is often worse in the morning and associated with early morning wakenings. How do dread and depression differ?

My early morning cortisol panics have subsided but dread has taken over. I'm rethinking the need to block light out again after rereading Alto's post that morning dread is also likely related to cortisol/light. I was travelling and in hotels w/convenient blackout curtains that helped the AM panic almost immediately, but now at home and get light in the morning.

Also, has anyone correlated sleep changes or dreaming to how you feel upon awakening? I dream infrequently (or remember infrequently).

 

Any input appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
peggy

i find that if i have been actively dreaming (well remembering my dreams) just prior to wakening i am more likely to feel down. I was reading about how are thoughts get attached to feelings and how this can feed the depression cycle, which makes sense. The last few days i have been consciously trying to observe my thoughts/ feelings rather than analysing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shanti

I did this for years. I never understood why. I always woke up as if some horrific tragedy was going to strike since I just slept. All this slowly went away for me after a lot of self help with affirmations and such. As far as that horrible gloomy, dread of life feeling that comes with w/d, that would happen all day long, not just on waking. I'm glad I don't do that anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jemima

I had episodes of dread when waking up well before taking any ADs. I think it's related to dreams that haven't quite gone away when you wake up. Mine were always about not going in to work and then realizing, at the very end of the day, that I hadn't called in sick. At that point there was only an hour to half an hour left in the work day and I could never find a phone or any other way to communicate. Even though I've been retired since early September, I still have these nightmares about my former job, but they're fewer and farther between. My episodes are anxiety-based rather than any sign of depression.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Barbarannamated

I did this for years. I never understood why. I always woke up as if some horrific tragedy was going to strike since I just slept. All this slowly went away for me after a lot of self help with affirmations and such. As far as that horrible gloomy, dread of life feeling that comes with w/d, that would happen all day long, not just on waking. I'm glad I don't do that anymore.

 

Dread of life sums it up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Barbarannamated

I've had nightmares in past that I went back to visit PA and couldn't get back to CA and job ~ planes not flying ~couldnt call work to let them know etc -

Then I told my cousin who lives in CA also and she had same recurring nightmare but was stuck in Ohio where her family lived ~

Her older brother in CA had same nightmare ~

 

There was a good reason they filmed All the Right Moves in my hometown -

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nikki

Barbara...

 

My Therapist & a friend of mine told me what I was experiencing in the AM which is anxiety, is also DREAD.

 

For me, there is anticipatory anxiety, prior to waking or upon waking I fear the anxiety/dread and this brings it on.

 

It has plagued me for many years. There are other factors involved for me. Fear. worrying chronically about succeeding. Financial worries. I pay my bills, but I am not where I want to be.

 

I really believe that the anxiety from w/d makes AM anxiety worse than it ever was. Like a PTSD thingy. These drugs cause ridiculous dreams.

 

For many, many years I had a recurring dream that really bothered me. I finally decided to tell the Therapist and she explained it to me ~ NEVER HAD IT AGAIN

 

If you are in counseling and having distrubing dreams tell the Therapist and let them explain it to you. Really worked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Barbarannamated

Barbara...

 

My Therapist & a friend of mine told me what I was experiencing in the AM which is anxiety, is also DREAD.

 

For me, there is anticipatory anxiety, prior to waking or upon waking I fear the anxiety/dread and this brings it on.

 

It has plagued me for many years. There are other factors involved for me. Fear. worrying chronically about succeeding. Financial worries. I pay my bills, but I am not where I want to be.

 

I really believe that the anxiety from w/d makes AM anxiety worse than it ever was. Like a PTSD thingy. These drugs cause ridiculous dreams.

 

For many, many years I had a recurring dream that really bothered me. I finally decided to tell the Therapist and she explained it to me ~ NEVER HAD IT AGAIN

 

If you are in counseling and having distrubing dreams tell the Therapist and let them explain it to you. Really worked.

 

'Anticipatory anxiety' is such a good term that Alex also used recently but I hadn't heard before.

 

I rarely remember dreams although I feel like something critical is going on just before I wake. This morning I fell back to sleep and woke up with the same awful feeling, almost like my dream picked up when I fell back to sleep.

I haven't been in regular therapy for many years - the last time was before starting meds. I tried MANY times, but couldn't find therapist I felt comfortable with (extremely limited by insurance).

 

Thank you, Nikki. I hesitate to write in the mornings because I feel so horrid. Had extra stressors in past week that are escalating everything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nikki

OMG when I post in the morning and I go back and read it later on I can see the difference.

 

Dread ~ anxiety ~ fear and self bashing & shame....You know..."why doesn't anyone else have this?"

 

My friend says when she wakes up she immediately says "Thank you God, I love your Rhea"

I've practiced this and it does help. Last week I was into "nope, not going there, hit the bricks anxiety, what purpose is this serving". That was good too.

 

I do some daily readings followed by journaling and that helps.

 

My BFF who has a really good life, wakes up in the middle of the night with this. That's worse.

 

If I tell you my dream, you will either never speak to me again or die laughing....

 

I am from Brooklyn Heights, went to Catholic Schools (scene of the crime)

 

I would dream about flying naked over Brooklyn, over the school, and them plopping down in my desk, face to face with a Nun with no homework. :blush:

 

The Theapist said...being naked in a dream is being extremely vulnerable and victimized, no protection. Flying was my means of escape....I could always take off again and those damn nuns couldn't catch me.

 

You are either ROTFLL or you may want to have me banned. Believe me Catholic School was where all my anxiety and insecurities began :mad:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Barbarannamated

Good one!!

Thank you for sharing! You triggered my memory of repeated dreams of working at Wendy's (college) and I'd have top half of my uniform on and discover I forgot the pants! I couldn't fly away although I may have had some dreams of flying.

It's amazing how ingrained those experiences are and how they effect us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Whatever

Believe me Catholic School was where all my anxiety and insecurities began :mad:

 

My Mother went to Catholic School BEFORE Vatican II, back when mass was spoken in Latin, back when it was uber misgynostic, back when nuns hit little children. She is 73 now and still has nightmares about it. She still says "those nuns mean, nasty, horrible human beings".

 

Also, my husband credits his "neurosis" to Catholic School in Staten Island.

 

So, I am so very sorry you had to endure that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Daisy

Hi

 

I am fairly new to this website. I can relate to waking up in fear and having a feeling of dread. I do not know if I have been dreaming or what. I usually try to

 

get myself up out bed, look around me...then have a self conversation of... #1)I have a roof over my head #2)I have food to eat #3) My relationships with

 

friends, neighbors and family are okay #4)No one I love is ill or dying #5) My pets are okay #6) I have enough money to get by and #7) My house is not perfect,

 

but it is clean enough not be embarrassed if someone dropped by. Oh yes,I must not forget... my car may need a bath, but it is running okay.. Then I take my dog

 

for a walk and see that nothing has changed outside. The trees are still beautiful and the grass is mostly green. I often, but not always feel better. I think it

 

helps me realize that the reality of what is around me, is better than what is going on in my sometimes messed up head.

 

When or if things change in my life for the worst, I know I will deal with them the best that I can. I have had tragedies in my life that I have dealt with, and

 

know the strength is there within me to draw on if I need it.

 

the worst, then I will deal with them the best I can

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nikki

EW it is so good that you get out of the house quickly in the AM. Going thru the mental list of 'everything is okay' is good too.

 

When I was going thru my divorce, my friend used to tell me to look down at my feet. To see where I was planted and things around me were okay. Like you do.

 

Barbara...let's analyze your dream and maybe it will go away. No pants...were you feeling vulnerable at that job? Did you get picked apart or feel demoralized. Customers can be very condescening and as a server you are always under a microscope.

 

Okay next dream...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jemima

 

I am from Brooklyn Heights, went to Catholic Schools (scene of the crime)

 

I would dream about flying naked over Brooklyn, over the school, and them plopping down in my desk, face to face with a Nun with no homework. :blush:

 

The Theapist said...being naked in a dream is being extremely vulnerable and victimized, no protection. Flying was my means of escape....I could always take off again and those damn nuns couldn't catch me.

 

You are either ROTFLL or you may want to have me banned. Believe me Catholic School was where all my anxiety and insecurities began :mad:

 

I believe you. I've heard many horror stories from friends and acquaintences who went to Catholic schools.

 

My own experience was particularly awful. I'm not Catholic and never have been, but I wound up in a Catholic hospital following a suicide attempt in 1980. I was depressed over my second divorce and even more depressed that I hadn't succeeded in offing myself. I will never forget the nun who appeared at the foot of my bed and admonished me very nastily for having committed a sin. Her comment made me feel even more miserable.

 

It is amazing how experiences stick with you long afer the fact, like my dreams of being AWOL from work, never mind I retired last September. That dream hasn't recurred for a couple of months now, and I hope it's gone for good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Barbarannamated

 

My own experience was particularly awful. I'm not Catholic and never have been, but I wound up in a Catholic hospital following a suicide attempt in 1980. I was depressed over my second divorce and even more depressed that I hadn't succeeded in offing myself. I will never forget the nun who appeared at the foot of my bed and admonished me very nastily for having committed a sin. Her comment made me feel even more miserable.

 

Just what a suicidally depressed person needs... some GUILT piled on. GRRRR}}}

 

I'm so sorry, Jemima. I think that most people are still clueless and selfish in talking about suicide.

 

RE: morning anxiety/writing, etc. - my husband asked me the other afternoon 'why do you seem normal now compared to earlier?' I thought i had explained how mornings are much worse, cortisol, etc. but he finally saw it for himself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nikki

Jemima....what a horrid thing for that nun to have said to you. I had 12 years of Catholic Schools. Sent my daughter to public school and by the way....a suicide attempt in not a sin, it is an act of desperation. The 'sin' was how that uncaring nun spoke to you.

 

Barbara I should practice this myself, but I run downstairs to make coffee..From the bed go directly into the shower. It shuts down the cortisol dump. Do the works, shampoo, condition, shave legs/underarms. It really does make me feel better.

 

I love how I give advise and then neglect to practice it myself.

 

Hugs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Barbarannamated

Interesting about the shower - cortisol dump. In my readings somewhere, i recall someone saying that hot showers may worsen symptoms and tepid showers are better. I have no idea if there is any validity to this!

 

Seeing a pattern with the schooling experiences. I grew up Eastern Orthodox - still not sure what they believe because services were in Ukrainian.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nikki

Barbara, a friend of mine (another victim of Paxil) told me a long time ago. Celeste jump into a cold shower.

 

I live right near the beach and jumping in water has always been healing for me. Water washing over my head removes anxiety in the ocean and in the shower.

 

What I do is take the shower hot and then gradually make is colder for the final rinse.

 

Getting dressed nicely, make-up and blow drying my hair are a must. When I look good I feel better. Lipstick a must ;)

 

It is not a solution for WD - it just keeps me moving forward.

 

Hugs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shanti

I wanted to write this because I feel it's probably one of the worst symptoms, and most dangerous. I've been through ALL of the symptoms from the zaps to the severe, suicidal depression. All of them are gone for me now. And that's why I wanted to write this. The depression that this w/d causes is like nothing that I've ever experienced, and I know you will agree that trying to describe it doesn't even begin to paint of picture of how dreadful it is. One thing that the feeling does is cause a sense of inevitable doom. It makes you feel like you'll never get better and that life is utterly ruined. It makes life seem like it's senseless and that existence in itself is some kind of cruel, sinister joke. I want to tell any of you reading this that it is temporary. That feeling is unnatural and wrong, and it does go away. When it goes away, life and love of life comes back. I have ideas about how to get through it, as I did. But it's pretty much spiritual. Also, the homeopathic remedy Stramonium was extremely effective for that specific symptom. Please hang in there. It gets better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shanti

I'm not ready to write my success story yet. I've been off Paxil since December, and off Prozac for just a couple of months. That extreme depression hasn't been around for me since about October of last year. It was the summer before that when I had that. I know it won't come back. I'm waiting until next June to write my success story. Seems a long way away, and I feel like I'm not going to have any setbacks or anything as it's been so long since I've had the extreme symptoms. But I want my success story to really mean something and be a message of hope, so I'll wait.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shanti

Oh, and I wanted to tell you that I wish I had more time to be here more and help individually. I guess that is why I wanted to write this and maybe discuss. I'm in school now for Medical Office Administration. See, I would've never thought I'd get on with my life again, but I am :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nikki

Shanti you really hit the nail on the head describing the depression portion.

 

Even more important is the reminder that it does go away, even though it feels like it never will.

 

Shanti I never did get off ad's, and now I am on 2. Lowering one and building up the other. I don't have it in me to stop. Not now. However I would like to thank you for you help in the last six months.

 

There is no doubt in my mind about you posting your success story.

 

And yes, for me too....the physical manifestation from WD, paled in comparison to the anxiety, fear and depression.

Hugs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
lundeliz

Thank you for this post, Shanti. I've bookmarked it so I can come back to it every time things feel hopeless.

 

It is exactly what I need to hear. Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tezza

Shanti,

 

Thank you for posting this, I needed it!

 

Love,

 

Tezza

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shanti

You're welcome :)

 

If anyone reading this topic is in a serious state of depression from the w/d, please check the success section of my site for some Hope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jemima

Thanks from me too, Shanti. When I first saw this topic I thought you must have read my mind! I'm past all the obvious physical problems with withdrawal, but still having trouble with emotions that seem to range from numbness to a sadness that feels never-ending and hopeless. I know that isn't rational - sadness, even without being in withdrawal, does get better with time - but it just seems never-ending. And there you are, telling us that it does get better, just when I needed that! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
fefesmom

Shanti. Thank you so much for this discussion topic. I went CT off effexor xr in October. Too late to go back on a little bit now. I got over the physical symptoms pretty easily. However, the sadness, tears, regrets, dismay about the past and future are terrible even though, fortunately, they do come and go. It is so reassuring to read your entries (and I have read many by you over the past ten months I have been on the site and found them encouraging overall). I vacillate about how to cope with feeling I have never loved or been loved, am basically alone , how to make life worthwhile given all this. I can hardly recall the depression of 15 years ago that got me to take ads but thinking that I will be better makes me wonder. Was I so great before I started ads??? Sorry if this is a downer, it is just how feel right now. And thanks again for your post and encouragement to all of us. FM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BRapsidy

Shanti thank you for posting this. It could not have come at a better time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Barbarannamated

Shanti. Thank you so much for this discussion topic. I went CT off effexor xr in October. Too late to go back on a little bit now. I got over the physical symptoms pretty easily. However, the sadness, tears, regrets, dismay about the past and future are terrible even though, fortunately, they do come and go. It is so reassuring to read your entries (and I have read many by you over the past ten months I have been on the site and found them encouraging overall). I vacillate about how to cope with feeling I have never loved or been loved, am basically alone , how to make life worthwhile given all this. I can hardly recall the depression of 15 years ago that got me to take ads but thinking that I will be better makes me wonder. Was I so great before I started ads??? Sorry if this is a downer, it is just how feel right now. And thanks again for your post and encouragement to all of us. FM

 

FM,

 

I relate well to your feelings. I would trade the "depression" prior to drugs for anything ive felt since, especially now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shanti

I am so glad that this post did help people. I had a feeling it was time to remind people about this. We talk so much about the many things to help us, and sometimes we need to cut to the chase and get to the bottom of it all; HOPE. That is what is needed most imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
alex

I wanted to write this because I feel it's probably one of the worst symptoms, and most dangerous. I've been through ALL of the symptoms from the zaps to the severe, suicidal depression. All of them are gone for me now. And that's why I wanted to write this. The depression that this w/d causes is like nothing that I've ever experienced, and I know you will agree that trying to describe it doesn't even begin to paint of picture of how dreadful it is. One thing that the feeling does is cause a sense of inevitable doom. It makes you feel like you'll never get better and that life is utterly ruined. It makes life seem like it's senseless and that existence in itself is some kind of cruel, sinister joke. I want to tell any of you reading this that it is temporary. That feeling is unnatural and wrong, and it does go away. When it goes away, life and love of life comes back. I have ideas about how to get through it, as I did. But it's pretty much spiritual. Also, the homeopathic remedy Stramonium was extremely effective for that specific symptom. Please hang in there. It gets better.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
alex

Shanti just couldn´t put it better; that is exactly the feeling I´m getting, even though the acute symptoms are better...

 

(I don´t know how to post my messges properly, please help me)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
alex

Hi Schuyler, thanks, I´m sorry I don´t know how to use the Forum correctly but at least I can comunicate.

 

I´m having this awful feeling of dispair,that Shanti describes so well.

 

I have dark thoughts, and that scares me a lot; I don´t want to do anything stupid.

 

My money problems don´t allow me to pay for professional help, so You people is all I have, thank God.

 

My life has been difficult, but this is something else...

 

I feel doomed. I´m using a PC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skyler

Hi Schuyler, thanks, I´m sorry I don´t know how to use the Forum correctly but at least I can comunicate.

 

I´m having this awful feeling of dispair,that Shanti describes so well.

 

I have dark thoughts, and that scares me a lot; I don´t want to do anything stupid.

 

My money problems don´t allow me to pay for professional help, so You people is all I have, thank God.

 

My life has been difficult, but this is something else...

 

I feel doomed. I´m using a PC

 

Alex, I'm going to repost this in your intro thread because it gets more traffic. I'll respond to you there in a bit.. I'm thinking how best to reply at the moment. We can see what is going on with you better if you keep to the one primary thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shanti

Hi Alex. I know how you feel. I just responded to your mail. You're doing fine posting by the way. Hang in there. It does go away. The perceptions of life is convincing but it is fake. You'll be okay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Narcissus

The worst part of withdrawal for me is how the flareups tend to color everything you feel or think as you're experiencing them. And the effects aren't new or arbitrary, they seem so often to recall the corpses of old problems and animate them with new and invigorated life. If you're at all prone to becoming trapped in your own thoughts than this can be especially terrifying. During a flare-up my mind seems somehow unable to accept that the sense of fear and dread encroaching upon it is truly meaningless, and it tries to sort of 'think it through'. Once this sort of formless and hopeless analysis begins it's very hard to stop it. Since the energy beneath it is so profoundly negative, it inevitably leads to very dark places, and because I'm vaguely 'thinking' my mind treats these places as somehow logical and accepts them. My whole life is then swallowed up until everything seems stark and bleak. If you're like me and you often find yourself blaring ahead on these neuro-emotion death trains, than you might try the following 'exit strategy'.

 

First I close my eyes. I don't so much try to stop any of my distressing thoughts, instead I redirect my attention to the just the feeling of being in my body, especially the feeling in my head, or 'behind my eyes'. But the point here isn't to relax necessarily, it's to show myself something. Paying attention to my mind and body in their resting state I almost instantly notice, without the thoughts to distract me, how deeply weird and drugged I feel. This is a relief because it shows me that my thoughts have not been proceeding from my normal self, but from this weird and broken and mending self, this mind and body that feel so strange and sore as I concentrate on it. This is usually enough to take all the force out of my distressing thoughts, once I see how faulty the foundation is they collapse like a house of cards. Taking this moment to just feel my 'base-line' so to speak allows me to see that the forces animating my thoughts are irrational and biological, and that the thoughts themselves are just the elaborate ghosts of my frustrated nervous system.

 

I'm still reeling from an earlier flare up, but hopefully what I've tried to describe here will be helpful to someone. The logic behind it is, I suppose, that because the symptoms themselves are so perfectly suspended between the mind and body, our attempts to calm ourselves have to straddle both these worlds as well. When all hell breaks loose it's not enough to try to mentally tell ourselves that we're withdrawing, we have to let ourselves momentary feel the reality of this, without distraction, before we'll truly believe it. And it truly does only take a moment, at least for me. Although I do sometimes have to repeat it before I'm fully 'out'. And, of course, I have to remember to do it as well :lol:.

 

Alright, I'll be quiet now. Hope everyone's relatively pain free and comfortable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.