Tips for tapering off Zyprexa (olanzapine)

[Evoldnahturt]

9 hours ago, BobJoe said:

Just a warning to you guys. I tried to quit olanzapine cold turkey and  fucked up my heart by accident. Now i have problems with heart electricity and might need a stimulator in near future. 

So dont try to go cold turkey!

 

I started having heart issues while still on Olanzapine.  I still do, to some extent, but I suspect that this, like most issues caused by poor lifestyle choices, is one of those things that the body can repair on it's own once you start being good to it, so I'm not too worried about it.  Time will tell!

[Altostrata]

lucy's experience with Zyprexa and Seroquel is continued in her Intro topic:

 

On 5/29/2018 at 4:33 AM, lucyinthesky said:

 

Guys,

By way of an update, I am afraid to report that I may have spoken too soon regarding my "successful so far" switch from Zyprexa to Seroquel.    As soon as I tried to go below 2.5mg Zyprexa (while increasing from 75mg to 100mg Seroquel), I have been unable to sleep (even though the Seroquel makes me extremely groggy and sleepy, my brain just isn't able to get into sleep mode). I feel like I'm hitting a brick wall.  I'm not sure what my next move will be -- just wanted to update you that it certainly isn't as easy as I thought. Zyprexa addiction is the worst.

 

Please continue the conversation in lucy's Intro topic

[ChessieCat]

 

MadHatter's method:

 

25 minutes ago, MadHatter said:

 

I mix 1 tablespoon pancake syrup with 3 tablespoons water.  I use a pill crusher to grind up the 2.5mg Zyprexa.  I pour the powdered pill into the mixture and mix it up.  The syrup helps the powder be evenly distributed so that it doesn't just all fall to the bottom.  

 

 

[erer]

Olanzapine is an evil drug. Indescribably evil.

But I came here to say, that I am beginning to feel that it IS possible to get off it.

It has been 6 months since my last dose of Olanzapine.

 

It was hell. Taking the drug was hell. Tapering was hell. Being without Olanzapine is wonderful! I will not get into detail, but being at home for 3 years, not able to work, severely  agoraphobic, fighting for my life every single day, I started getting my life back piece by piece with every drop in Olanzapine. I would say I started to feel better after dropping below 1,4 mg. 

This whole time I used orodispersible tablets that I "dissolved" in 20 ml of water, stirring the water constantly I pulled it into a 20 ml syringe. Shaking the syringe constantly I pressed the excess liquid out (and never stored it for another time!).

 

MOD NOTE:  please ask erer questions in erer's Intro topic

I am happy to share my experience with anyone who wants to ask me something about it. Best of luck and all my best wishes to everyone who is tapering, about to taper or dreaming about tapering

 

Edited October 16, 2018 by ChessieCat
added mod note

[MuffinHopes]

Are there any success stories on here? I was put on zyprexa 4 months ago to counter insomnia caused by Latuda. Before I started all of this, I was sleeping 8 to 9 hours a night with no sleep aid. Now trying to get off 1.25 mg of Zyprexa was not successful. I tried twice; I lasted one month the first time and only five days the second time after realizing I would go insane if I don't sleep. I'm severet depressed about this stiuation as I have really terrible side effects. If this tapering method has worked for anyone, please let me know.

 

Edited February 6, 2019 by ChessieCat
removed triggering content

[ChessieCat]

In response to the new member whose post is still in the approval queue please see:

 

Search for Zyprexa in the Success Stories Forum

[Evoldnahturt]

On 2/6/2019 at 12:29 PM, MuffinHopes said:

Are there any success stories on here? I was put on zyprexa 4 months ago to counter insomnia caused by Latuda. Before I started all of this, I was sleeping 8 to 9 hours a night with no sleep aid. Now trying to get off 1.25 mg of Zyprexa was not successful. I tried twice; I lasted one month the first time and only five days the second time after realizing I would go insane if I don't sleep. I'm severet depressed about this stiuation as I have really terrible side effects. If this tapering method has worked for anyone, please let me know.

 

 

Tapering is working pretty well for me.  I don't do the water taper method, though.  Although some people have reported success with it.  I got a lot more ***** up than just getting an hour or two of sleep each night and my symptoms are barely noticeable at this point.  Do your research, don't be lazy, and you should be okay if you don't wait too long to take this seriously.

[gladtobehere1984]

On 2/17/2019 at 9:41 AM, Evoldnahturt said:

Tapering is working pretty well for me.  I don't do the water taper method, though

Hi Evoldnahturt,

Hope you are well. Is there a specific way you do your taper? If so, I would be grateful if you share it. Cheers

[lucyinthesky]

Hi @MuffinHopes. I tried a few times before to taper off both Zyprexa and Seroquel (similar atypical antipsychotic) NOT using the taper method and I was unsuccessful. I had exactly the same problem, I simply couldn't sleep. 

 

But I am now doing the 10% taper method, and I have gone from 2.5mg to 1.3mg. The only negative symptoms I'm experiencing are waking up a lot at night. When I've just done a reduction in my dose, I will have more sleep interruptions and it will be harder to get back to sleep (occasionally I can't get back to sleep at all), but after about 2 weeks, this subsides into just waking up a few times a night. It isn't perfect but it really is quite manageable. I'm feeling better than I ever did on the full dose. 

 

I did have to stop drinking alcohol. And I feel better and better the more I cultivate a positive mindset and nourish myself with healthy foods, meditate and exercise (etc.).

 

In terms of my method, I'm using tapering strips (https://www.taperingstrip.org/), which have been developed in the Netherlands (where I live) to help people taper. If I didn't have access to these, I would use the water method.

 

I really suggest you try the gradual reduction method. I believe it's the only way.

[gladtobehere1984]

5 hours ago, lucyinthesky said:

 

In terms of my method, I'm using tapering strips (https://www.taperingstrip.org/), which have been developed in the Netherlands (where I live) to help people taper. If I didn't have access to these, I would use the water method.

Hi Lucy,

I also found out about tapering strips but couldn’t be sure if it’s possible to do custom timed tapers with them, because they seem to come in standard dose reductions that happen in 28 days. (my foggy mind must have missed something) Did you get custom ones made that allow you to taper %10 each time and hold for a certain period in between the reductions?

 

Cheers

[Evoldnahturt]

12 hours ago, gladtobehere1984 said:

Hi Evoldnahturt,

Hope you are well. Is there a specific way you do your taper? If so, I would be grateful if you share it. Cheers

 

I'm copying and pasting from  a previous post on this thread:

 

Quote

 

I'm currently using micro scoops as the amount I'm working with is almost too small to weigh on a scale.  I believe this is the safest way to taper medications that are classified as "practically insoluble" in water once you get down to a weight that a milligram scale can't measure precisely enough.

 

Extra-large red scoops:  https://amzn.to/2IK8OcB

 

Large blue scoops:  https://amzn.to/2kpqYBO

 

Small yellow scoops:  https://amzn.to/2seIMnJ
 

I weighed ten scoops from each sized scoop individually and divided the weight by ten to get the weight per scoop.  I did this many times for each scoop size and went with the average.  I then weighed an entire pill to get the mg dosage per weight.  Let's say a 2.5mg tablet of Zyprexa weighs 95mg on a scale.  That's 0.0263157894736842mg (dosage in mg) per mg weight on a scale (2.5mg / 95mg= 0.0263157894736842mg).  Let's say you determined that the amount of Zyprexa that a red scoop holds weighs 6.25mg.  Multiply the dosage in mg per mg weight (0.0263157894736842mg) by this number to get the dosage each red scoop will give you (6.25mg x 0.0263157894736842mg = 0.1644736842105263mg).  Now you just adjust the number of scoops you need from each scoop size to get whatever dose you want.  Once you get to where you need less than what the smallest scoop provides, you take one of those scoops and divide it in half.  Then you divide each of those halves in half again.  You will then have four somewhat equal piles.  You divide the dosage that that scoop gives you by four to get the dosage of each pile.  You can divide piles as many times as you want to get to the dosage you need.

 

 

Please see Alto's comment regarding this member's tapering method.

 

These days I just do 50% drops and hold for three months, which makes tapering easier.  This gives me a rate of about 20% per month instead of the recommended 10%.  I decided to try this faster rate because I'm doing a lot better now and figured I could go back to 10% if my body started complaining about it.  So far so good, but I'm not courageous enough to try to speed it up beyond that.  By the way, I've looked and am no longer able to find the yellow scoops.  I hope you figure out an approach that works for you.  Godspeed.

 

Edited February 18, 2019 by ChessieCat
added link

[Altostrata]

1 hour ago, Evoldnahturt said:

These days I just do 50% drops and hold for three months, which makes tapering easier.  This gives me a rate of about 20% per month instead of the recommended 10%.  I decided to try this faster rate because I'm doing a lot better now and figured I could go back to 10% if my body started complaining about it.  So far so good, but I'm not courageous enough to try to speed it up beyond that.  By the way, I've looked and am no longer able to find the yellow scoops.  I hope you figure out an approach that works for you.  Godspeed.

 

We should note that Evold is taking less than 1mg Zyprexa.

 

We don't recommend 50% decreases of Zyprexa at any stage of tapering. If you get withdrawal symptoms, you cannot count on updosing, sometimes it doesn't work.

[Evoldnahturt]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

 

We should note that Evold is taking less than 1mg Zyprexa.

 

We don't recommend 50% decreases of Zyprexa at any stage of tapering. If you get withdrawal symptoms, you cannot count on updosing, sometimes it doesn't work.

 

I agree that it's certainly less safe and not something that should be considered by someone that isn't dealing with more than very mild symptoms.  I don't have a strong opinion on whether the dose is relevant, although it seems like it wouldn't be, but I believe the severity of symptoms are.  If your symptoms are more severe, you're likely at a more progressed stage, which often times comes with heightened sensitivity to dose changes and more severe consequences if your symptoms worsen.  It's also important to listen to your body if you're foolish enough to attempt something like this.  If you notice any strange neurological issues pop up or worsen, it may be best to slow down and/or decrease more gradually instead of making big jumps and holding longer.  I only considered this because of how well I saw myself respond over the past couple of years to the standard 10% taper and because I'm arrogant enough to assume that I'm more capable of figuring this out than anybody else.

[Altostrata]

Excellent points, Evold. You understand your symptom pattern and are in control of your taper.

[gladtobehere1984]

18 hours ago, Evoldnahturt said:

I'm copying and pasting from  a previous post on this thread:

Thank you Evoldnahturt. I've just remembered that I actually did read your previous post before. I forgot it was yours though

 

My current taper is %5-10 every 8 weeks or so.(tapering from Zyprexa 10mg) I'll wait at least 4 weeks after the withdrawal symptoms are gone. If that's more than 8 weeks I'll wait. If not I'll hold for 8 weeks anyways by default.

 

The reason I'm doing such a conservative taper is because I had my first psychotic break after I tapered from 1.5mg of Risperdal in around 1 year. The psychosis happened about 5 months after I was drug-free. Apparently, that was too fast. It's a big mess when one is psychotic so I'm hoping this slow taper won't trigger psychosis again.

 

My taper will take around 7.5 years. 

 

Once again thank you for sharing your method.

 

P.S. Does anyone have an idea why I might have developed psychosis 5 months after I was drug free? I couldn't find an explanation other than supersensitivity psychosis, but even that seems to happen only days weeks after being drug-free or reducing the dose and not 5 months after it. I also didn't have any withdrawal symptoms remaining at the time, and never had psychosis in my life before.

[Altostrata]

Responded in gladtobehere's Intro topic

 

 

People who never had psychosis cannot relapse into psychosis, but psychosis-like symptoms have been known to happen in withdrawal. Like other withdrawal symptoms, they come from a destabilized nervous system. They do not mean you have psychosis, like other withdrawal symptoms, they will gradually go away.

 

However, if you had psychosis symptoms before going on psychiatric drugs, that means you are "neurologically various" -- your nervous system is set up a little differently from most people's -- and you must take care not to tip it into psychosis symptoms again. When you're off drugs, you'll also have to treat your nervous system with care, so you don't behave in a way that gets you hospitalized again.

[lucyinthesky]

On 2/18/2019 at 4:20 PM, gladtobehere1984 said:

Hi Lucy,

I also found out about tapering strips but couldn’t be sure if it’s possible to do custom timed tapers with them, because they seem to come in standard dose reductions that happen in 28 days. (my foggy mind must have missed something) Did you get custom ones made that allow you to taper %10 each time and hold for a certain period in between the reductions?

 

Cheers

 

Hey, good question!

 

The dose comes in a variety of smaller pills. So a 1.9mg dose would (by default) be 1 x 1mg + 1 x 0.5mg + 2 x 0.2mg. However, I have taken to specifying exactly how the dose should come, so I make sure I can reduce it by 0.1mg myself (so I would ask for the 1.5mg dose to come as 1 x 1mg and 5 x 0.1mg). So I request the same dose for a whole month, then taper myself by taking away a 0.1mg pill when I need to. This actually works out cheaper too: they charge around 90 euros for a taper, e.g going from 1.5mg to 1.3mg in a month; and 50 euros for the same dose for the whole month. (The latter is what I am doing). I'm also saving all the spare 0.1mg pills, so I can use these later on.

 

This might get trickier when a 10% reduction becomes less than 0.1mg (i.e. when I'm under 1mg), but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it (perhaps halving the 0.1mg pill, or using water titration when it gets to really small amounts). 

[gladtobehere1984]

21 hours ago, lucyinthesky said:

Hey, good question!

Ah ha! Great to hear. And it’s cheaper too like you say. Thank you for the through explanation.

 

And you are right, you cross the 0.1mg bridge when you come to it. I’m at 9.375mg now and have a long way till I get there.

[Miko789]

 a question,

 

are the orodispensible wafers more soluble than the tablets? 

 

so they are for taper

 

 

[Evoldnahturt]

Neither are soluble in water.  Olanzapine is "Practically insoluble in water"

 

Source:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olanzapine

[Spideygsm]

This post is incredibly old. I tried cutting the dissolvable wafers and the just fell apart.

 

At some point everybody tapering off Zyprexa

has to choose some does to stop taking the drug. What dose level is that?  It seems very difficult measuring very small doses whether by weight or volume. It became easiest for me to just cut the 2.5 mg tablets. 0.625 mg is where I stopped. 
 

It seem like a pain in the rear try and dissolve, weigh grains etc at such a small dose. I was so miserable, there no way I could have weighed or measured anything other than 1/2 and quarter pills
 

Good luck however you do it. 

[Miko789]

 

.if theres problem with the bits exposed to air? For 1 day?

1quarter is left in pill cutter for some days.??

[hayduke]

@Miko789 cut tablets seem to keep stored in a container for a few days at least.  I doubt I'd push it longer than that.

 

<5mg making a suspension in water has been worthwhile for better accuracy and it's not really much, if any, more difficult.

 

Pipette at home, and I find a syringe when on the road is good enough.

[helloworld]

Hello,

 

A another way to tape than with liquids, if you are comfortable with manual and meticulous work :

 

What you can do is to use orodispersible tablets.

Buy a manual pill crusher at the pharmacist.

Reduce the pill in thin powder.

Put the powder into a sheet of paper folded in the center,  to make a "line" of powder. Use glossy paper not too thin.

Balance the line-pile of powder with the blade of a cutter.

 

I wrote graduations of 1/10 on the paper.

I proceeded like that :

Make 4 small pile of powder so 25% of the 5mg in each pile, dividing the main line of powder using the blade of a cutter (and the paper of from a non-porous magazine (glossy paper) )

 

Then you can restart the process, making a line starting from your 25% pile, which you can divide in 2, in 4... until very very tiny amounts.

 

At the end, I put the finishing piles into small papers folded several times and closed with a paper clip, and put the closed small papers into a hermetic little box.

You can take them with you. As the powder inside is orodispersible, you can take it even where you are not at home, even in the street.

As the paper is folded several times there is no air inside, in the box there is no light, so it can be kept for several days without any problems I think.

 

If you want to make a 10% taper, a way would be this one :

Just take off 1/10 of powder to the first line.

For the 2nd dilution, take off 1/10, re-balance the line in order to extend it on the whole 10 graduations, and then take off a new 1/10...

The precision in not diabolical, but it will work if you are comfortable with manual and meticulous work.

 

Regards.

Sorry if the english is not so good.

The best would be to make a video to demonstrate the process...

[Evoldnahturt]

5 hours ago, helloworld said:

Hello,

 

A another way to tape than with liquids, if you are comfortable with manual and meticulous work :

 

What you can do is to use orodispersible tablets.

Buy a manual pill crusher at the pharmacist.

Reduce the pill in thin powder.

Put the powder into a sheet of paper folded in the center,  to make a "line" of powder. Use glossy paper not too thin.

Balance the line-pile of powder with the blade of a cutter.

 

I wrote graduations of 1/10 on the paper.

I proceeded like that :

Make 4 small pile of powder so 25% of the 5mg in each pile, dividing the main line of powder using the blade of a cutter (and the paper of from a non-porous magazine (glossy paper) )

 

Then you can restart the process, making a line starting from your 25% pile, which you can divide in 2, in 4... until very very tiny amounts.

 

At the end, I put the finishing piles into small papers folded several times and closed with a paper clip, and put the closed small papers into a hermetic little box.

You can take them with you. As the powder inside is orodispersible, you can take it even where you are not at home, even in the street.

As the paper is folded several times there is no air inside, in the box there is no light, so it can be kept for several days without any problems I think.

 

If you want to make a 10% taper, a way would be this one :

Just take off 1/10 of powder to the first line.

For the 2nd dilution, take off 1/10, re-balance the line in order to extend it on the whole 10 graduations, and then take off a new 1/10...

The precision in not diabolical, but it will work if you are comfortable with manual and meticulous work.

 

Regards.

Sorry if the english is not so good.

The best would be to make a video to demonstrate the process...

 

I like this about as much as my approach with the micro-scoops.  Maybe better because it requires less specialized equipment.  Regardless, it should be a much safer alternative to trying to do a water taper with this medication.

[hayduke]

13 hours ago, Evoldnahturt said:

 

I like this about as much as my approach with the micro-scoops.  Maybe better because it requires less specialized equipment.  Regardless, it should be a much safer alternative to trying to do a water taper with this medication.

 

Hi, Evoldnahturt. 

 

Why do you think this would be safer than titrating known quantities of liquid compound or suspension?

 

Cheers,

Hayduke

[Spideygsm]

At what dose do you plan to jump to zero?  I went to zero at 0.625 mg (approximately 1/4 2.5 mg tab). Easy to cut in 1/2. Very difficult to quarter. The worst for me was once I got below 2.5 mg. I DIDN’T taper as recommend by SA. I tapered as recommended by my Dr. 

 

It wasn’t a fun time getting off Zyprexa to put it mildly. I promise it’s worth the difficult time you’ll go through. I’m almost 2 years since my last dose of Zyprexa. I still have issue that I had before Zyprexa but I feel much better off Zyprexa than when I was taking it. 
 

Hang in there and do what works for you. SA has great taper recommendations but at some point you need to make the decision to stop tapering. You can taper forever.  It’s going to be very difficult. 
 

Good luck. Sorry OP. Just had to throw this in

[Evoldnahturt]

7 hours ago, hayduke said:

 

Hi, Evoldnahturt. 

 

Why do you think this would be safer than titrating known quantities of liquid compound or suspension?

 

Cheers,

Hayduke

 

Because Olanzapine isn't soluble in water.  At smaller dosages, the dosage administered will likely vary greatly.  I'm currently eating a few specs of powder each day.  If I tried to water taper using the dose I'm at now, I would likely only rarely draw any Olanzapine at all.

[hayduke]

4 hours ago, Evoldnahturt said:

 

Because Olanzapine isn't soluble in water.  At smaller dosages, the dosage administered will likely vary greatly.  I'm currently eating a few specs of powder each day.  If I tried to water taper using the dose I'm at now, I would likely only rarely draw any Olanzapine at all.

 

In practice the lack of solubility isn't a problem as long as you agitate the suspension properly and draw the cut promptly.

I've been following this procedure for almost two years now as outlined in Rhi's post in this thread and I'm satisfied it's very consistent and accurate.

 

Not to mention less fiddly than dealing with small grains of powder while tired, or home from festivities 🙂

 

Using a 25ml pipette with a 2.5mg tablet, your .51mg would be easily measurable as 5.1 ml.  If you needed even more precision, use a 50ml pipette and draw 10.2ml.  I'm confident this will work down to at least 0.1mg (if not even better than half that) by which point I'd be hopeful of being able to jump off.

Not knocking your method, if you're comfortably down to 0.51 it's clearly working for you.  But it's worth pointing out the liquid taper is thoroughly viable.

And congrats on your taper, it's a pig of a drug to get free of.

 

[Evoldnahturt]

1 hour ago, hayduke said:

 

In practice the lack of solubility isn't a problem as long as you agitate the suspension properly and draw the cut promptly.

I've been following this procedure for almost two years now as outlined in Rhi's post in this thread and I'm satisfied it's very consistent and accurate.

 

 

You could only believe this if you haven't tried to visualize it.  If only a few specs are left, there's no way you're going to get a consistent dosage with the water taper method.  Even in a drop of water, that drop is hundreds of times greater in volume than the specs of Olanzapine within the drop.  No matter the volume of water or Olanzapine I choose to use to try to extract these few specs, there's no way this method could get me anywhere near where I currently am in my taper.  This method may be consistent enough for larger doses, but it becomes increasingly less consistent as you lower your dose.  If you aren't suffering any issues, you're either using a much larger volume of Olanzapine than I've described (coupled with a reasonably high tolerance for inconsistency in dosage) or you could have jumped to zero already, because you basically have, spare the odd spec or two that you happen to administer every once in a while.

 

1 hour ago, hayduke said:

 

Not to mention less fiddly than dealing with small grains of powder while tired, or home from festivities 🙂

 

 

I don't understand how someone that's experienced this could have such a blase attitude towards it, but it's your life.  I can guarantee you'll take this condition more seriously if your approach bites you in the ass.

  

1 hour ago, hayduke said:

 

Using a 25ml pipette with a 2.5mg tablet, your .51mg would be easily measurable as 5.1 ml.  If you needed even more precision, use a 50ml pipette and draw 10.2ml.  I'm confident this will work down to at least 0.1mg (if not even better than half that) by which point I'd be hopeful of being able to jump off.

Not knocking your method, if you're comfortably down to 0.51 it's clearly working for you.  But it's worth pointing out the liquid taper is thoroughly viable.

And congrats on your taper, it's a pig of a drug to get free of.

 

0.51mg is where I was in May 2017.  I calculated that I was taking very roughly 0.014068395mg before the dosage started to become incalculable.  Now that dose is likely multiple orders of magnitude greater than my current dose.

 

 

 

[hayduke]

1 minute ago, Evoldnahturt said:

 

 You could only believe this if you haven't tried to visualize it.  If only a few specs are left, there's no way you're going to get a consistent dosage with the water taper method.  Even in a drop of water, that drop is hundreds of times greater in volume than the specs of Olanzapine within the drop.  No matter the volume of water or Olanzapine I choose to use to try to extract these few specs, there's no way this method could get me anywhere near where I currently am in my taper.  This method may be consistent enough for larger doses, but it becomes increasingly less consistent as you lower your dose.  If you aren't suffering any issues, you're either using a much larger volume of Olanzapine than I've described (coupled with a reasonably high tolerance for inconsistency in dosage) or you could have jumped to zero already, because you basically have, spare the odd few specs that you happen to administer every once in a while.

 

 

I don't understand how someone that's experienced this could have such a blase attitude towards it, but it's your life.  I can guarantee you'll take this condition more seriously if your approach bites you in the ass.

  

 

0.51mg is where I was in May 2017.  I calculated that I was taking very roughly 0.014068395mg before the dosage started to become incalculable.  Now that dose is likely multiple orders of magnitude greater than my current dose.

 

 

 

 

I'm quite sensitive to small changes in dosage, like many of us here.  I routinely notice the effects from each 2.5% cut on the brass monkey slide taper, and most certainly the week after the fourth in the set.  I'd notice for sure if the dosage was routinely inconsistent.  I wouldn't describe my approach as blase - it's when you're tired etc that you most need to know you're reliably getting your scheduled amount right.

 

My understanding is that the olanzapine itself is more or less invisible in suspension, and any specks you see are the binding agent from the tablet.

That may actually become a problem with your approach since you can't tell the binding material from the active drug itself.

[Evoldnahturt]

20 minutes ago, hayduke said:

 

I'm quite sensitive to small changes in dosage, like many of us here.  I routinely notice the effects from each 2.5% cut on the brass monkey slide taper, and most certainly the week after the fourth in the set.  I'd notice for sure if the dosage was routinely inconsistent.  I wouldn't describe my approach as blase - it's when you're tired etc that you most need to know you're reliably getting your scheduled amount right.

 

My understanding is that the olanzapine itself is more or less invisible in suspension, and any specks you see are the binding agent from the tablet.

That may actually become a problem with your approach since you can't tell the binding material from the active drug itself.

 

1.1mg seems like a high enough dose that the water taper method could be consistent enough if you don't use too much water.  I suspect this will become untrue at some point during your taper, unless you choose to jump to zero from a much higher point than I would choose to.  With a little more effort, you could get more consistent doses and, consequently, accept less risk.

  

20 minutes ago, hayduke said:

My understanding is that the olanzapine itself is more or less invisible in suspension, and any specks you see are the binding agent from the tablet.

That may actually become a problem with your approach since you can't tell the binding material from the active drug itself.

 

This is certainly a risk, but one that is unavoidable, as far as I know.  Both my method and the water taper method are equally incapable of addressing this issue.  My assumption has been that by the time this has an appreciable effect on the consistency of my dosages, my body may have healed enough to handle the decrease in consistency.  If this isn't true in my case, I'm reasonably certain there's nothing I could do about it anyway.

[Spideygsm]

Hayduke,

 

Very impressive record keeping on your tapers. I took Zyprexa for about 15 years. I got up to 30mg/day. It almost killed me and I still suffer the side effects to some degree. At the time I couldn’t  function well enough to document my cuts because the same doctor who put me on the drug did a rapid taper over 4 months. 
 

How’s your sleep doing small tapers like you are?

Edited February 6, 2020 by Spideygsm
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[hayduke]

11 minutes ago, Evoldnahturt said:

 

1.1mg seems like a high enough dose that the water taper method could be consistent enough if you don't use too much water.  I suspect this will become untrue at some point during your taper, unless you choose to jump to zero from a much higher point than I would choose to.  With a little more effort, you could get more consistent doses and, consequently, accept less risk.

  

 

This is certainly a risk, but one that is unavoidable, as far as I know.  Both my method and the water taper method are equally incapable of addressing this issue.  My assumption has been that by the time this has an appreciable effect on the consistency of my dosages, my body may have healed enough to handle the decrease in consistency.  If this isn't true in my case, I'm reasonably certain there's nothing I could do about it anyway.

 

It's plausible that at those very small dosages you're at, the precise amount is less important than just having the trace.

 

If you leave the tablet in your measured qty of water (e.g. 25ml) and leave it for a good 15 mins it will have crumbled on its own.  A good thorough agitation at that point is likely to leave no visible specks at all, and my feeling is that this well suspended mixture will have a more even distribution of the active compound than the dry tablet. 

 

Either way, if what you're doing is working for you, that's great.  No one's making us do this any particular way and it's nice to see people at different points on the same trail.  Cheers

[hayduke]

11 minutes ago, Spideygsm said:

Hayduke,

 

Very impressive record keeping on your tapers. I took Zyprexa for about 15 years. I got up to 30mg/day. It almost killed me and I still suffer the side effects to some degree. At the time I could function well enough to document my cuts because the same doctor who put me on the drug did a rapid taper over 4 months. 
 

How’s your sleep doing small tapers like you are?

 

Hi Spidey,

 

30mg sounds horrific.  A rapid taper off it sounds just as bad.  I hate the way these drugs get you both coming _and_ going. 

I was on 10 for some time and got down to 5 with no bother via 7.5 and 6 2/3 with a pill cutter (now _there's_ a horrible way to measure).  I did 5 to 2.5 in 5 months which was a tad rapid but not too disruptive (I'm still in the same job 😉 ) and a good 6 month hold after that.  Life got a lot better at 2.5, that feeling of being in a different room to everyone else at the 'party' of life was gone.  Feel like all my close relationships improved and I'm a lot more present.

Below about 1.4 some different effects emerged and I held at 1.25 for nearly 3 months.  Now at 1.1 and due for 0.97 in 6 weeks or so.

 

One of those effects is that those 9-10+ hrs of drug-induced sleep are gone, but I'm still getting 7-8 most nights.  Maybe 9 now and again.  The other night I had 10 1/2 which was glorious.  Blackout curtains and aircon in the summer here are helping a lot.

Sleep is key to the whole thing, I think.  It's one of the key signals determining how fast I can safely taper.

How long since you came off altogether, and is your sleep improving?  I saw over in rupa's thread that she's sleeping really well now.

 

Cheers

[Spideygsm]

Hayduke, 

 

I've has trouble sleeping just about my entire life. When I was 8, the Doctors put me on Ritalin which is a stimulant. That started my sleep problems. Zyprexa didn’t  help me sleep because I could feel the drug in me and my mind fights that. Conventional sleeps meds didn’t help me either. Btw, I wasn’t put on Zyprexa for sleep. 
 

My last dose of Zyprexa was approximately March 4, 2018. Like you, once I went below 2.5mg was a whole different story. I went 2.5, 1.25, tried my best to 1/4 to 0.625. After a couple of weeks at 0.625mg I stopped. That was the worst but I was determined to stick it out. There’s no explaining it. For me it was the worst time of my life. My doctor had me try Valium to help with the anxiety but it did nothing so I stopped. I’ve withdrawn from Klonipin and benzodiazepines are very difficult to stop taking also. 
 

The extramarital withdrawl feeling lasted about 4 months after my last dose. One day I just started feeling better. Normal. I still take Trazodone. I tried to stop that but I didn’t have the fight in me after withdrawing from Zyprexa. I need to update my medication list. 
 

One thing to remember is that any existing issues you were prescribed Zyprexa to fix will still be there. However, I suggest exercise, diet (cut the sugars, caffeine, eat high fiber) helps. Right now I only take the Trazodone which I’ll stop when I get the strength. Getting off Zyprexa took everything I had. 
 

You’re doing the right thing by following SA advice about the slow taper. Listen to your body.  I think when you take your last dose however dose that is there's gonna be a shock to the system. It’s so temping just to take another dose to feel better or sleep. Don’t do it. 
 

Hang in there. That’s my advise. I swam every morning no matter how bad I felt. Once the endorphins got going, I’d get 3-4 hrs if relief. 
 

Best of luck