Jump to content

inmediares 5-HTP for obsession?


inmediares

Recommended Posts

I'm curious if anyone has experience with 5-HTP for depression, or obsessive tendencies.

 

Over 20 years, I've tried a variety of anti-depressants with little/no success -- I quit over 1.5 years ago, and fortunately had few issues with withdrawal. I had been working with a therapist for 2.5 years when, in March, she suddenly terminated the relationship. I'll skip the details -- but the way she did it was unprofessional and precipitous and was extremely traumatic. I went from being anxious and angry, trying to deal with some issues, to deeply depressed and suicidal. I've found a new therapist, who's helping me work through the situation. However, even after 14 weeks, I'm still having issues -- severe anxiety attacks, and depression. The trauma of the termination -- and the therapists refusal to speak with me -- has left me obsessed with the situation.

 

My new therapist has respected my unwillingness to further experiment with meds. So far. However, he has continued to encourage me to try something, perhaps Prozac, to help deal with issue.

 

I don't see the point. Nothing I've tried in the past has really helped -- I think my issues are more psychological in how I related to individuals and interact than they are biochemical.

 

I've come across some suggestions that 5-HTP may be helpful, particularly for the obsessive emotions I'm experiencing. I picked up some, and have been trying it for one week. I'm not certain how I feel about it -- good, bad, or indifferent. I'm curious if anyone has any experience with this supplement? Am I just setting myself up for further issues and problems?

 

Thanks.

Link to comment

Inmediares,

 

I'm very sorry about the way your previous therapist terminated your relationship. Without knowing details, I can understand how traumatic that would be especially without warning or explanation. The therapist - client relationship is highly emotional. Trust and vulnerability are necessary and your previous therapist violated that. Whatever hurt, anger, confusion, obsession you are feeling is COMPLETELY UNDERSTANDABLE. You've had no closure by way of an explanation. That is not unlike one partner suddenly leaving a committed relationship with no explanation.

 

Your new therapist SHOULD understand this and, if not, a different therapist is in order. You are clearly grieving and need to process that at your own pace. Drugs will not assist you in processing. They may mask VERY NATURAL FEELINGS you are having. I had one therapist years ago who I connected with. I would have been DEVASTATED had she ended our relationship without explanation.

 

You say your therapist supports your choice to not use drugs, but suggests Prozac. Prozac is a very powerful, mind-altering drug. Perhaps I misunderstood something.

 

5HT (5hydroxytryptophan) is a serotonin precursor. It may be termed "natural", but can have similar effects to SS/NRI drugs (Prozac being one). You've tried several antidepressants with no success. Likely, they were serotonin based.

 

Trust your intuition that psychotherapy is appropriate. It sounds like you know what you need but may not be progressing according to your therapist's expectations (or insurance?).

 

There is excellent information on this site about different types of therapy. For me, CBT was counterproductive because I had many longstanding issues that were never addressed.

 

INFO

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2042-cbt-vs-psychodynamic-pros-and-cons/page__pid__24370__st__20#entry24370

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

Link to comment
  • Administrator

My new therapist has respected my unwillingness to further experiment with meds. So far. However, he has continued to encourage me to try something, perhaps Prozac, to help deal with issue.

This doesn't sound like respecting your decision to me. Is your therapist aware that Prozac is a medication?

 

What do you mean by obsession? Because you can't let the hurt caused by your therapist go after 14 weeks?

 

You may wish to look into meditation to temper your emotional tendencies. We have a number of topics on it here and in the Finding Meaning forum.

 

I have no idea if 5-HTP will help you. It might exacerbate anxiety, if you tend to be anxious.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment

Thanks both for the thoughtful replies.

 

Let me first hasten to defend my new therapist. I've probably left the wrong impression. We've discussed meds a few times (3-4) in the three months I've been seeing him. As I mentioned, he's respected my views although he clearly feels it's something I should evaluate. The Prozac suggestion was a specific response to a discussion we had at my last session regarding my continued problems in dealing with the termination. He's very experienced, has been very engaged in trying alternative therapies (particularly EMDR), and I'm convinced has my best interests at heart -- he wants to help me improve my situation, and is recommending what he thinks will be of benefit.

 

By obsessed, I mean that my former therapist, and the situation, are something that I think about almost constantly -- the thoughts are intrusive, distressing, and often frightening. I've experienced anxiety attacks, and a great deal of anger. Even from my perspective, this seems to surpass a normal or expected grief/loss reaction. I think, at least in part, it stems from my personality, which tends to be quite analytical. While that can be a strength, it's not helping in this case -- and I don't seem to be able to turn it off. It's become a barrier to accepting the situation, forgiving my former therapist, and letting go of the pain.

 

The 5-HTP was something I came across in my own research -- I've successfully used other supplements and treatments for different conditions, and I was curious if there was something that might help me get through this situation. The data I've encountered isn't particularly comprehensive, but there was one suggestion it could be useful in addressing OCD. With some reluctance, I've been trying it for the past week -- I'm eager to find something that will help me work through this situation, and get on with dealing with the things that brought me to therapy in the first place. But, as noted, my experience with meds has not been positive. My post here was made in the hope that others might be able to provide more information or their own experiences. For what it's worth, I've dropped the experiment after one week. It does seem to offer limited relief -- but at the cost of fatigue, and a sense of emotional disengagement. As with my previous experiences, the negatives seem to significantly outweigh any positive effect.

 

Thanks again for your input. I appreciate it. I'm going to continue with my other approaches (therapy, meditation, etc.) and hope that they help.

 

Thanks.

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus

By obsessed, I mean that my former therapist, and the situation, are something that I think about almost constantly -- the thoughts are intrusive, distressing, and often frightening. I've experienced anxiety attacks, and a great deal of anger. Even from my perspective, this seems to surpass a normal or expected grief/loss reaction. I think, at least in part, it stems from my personality, which tends to be quite analytical. While that can be a strength, it's not helping in this case -- and I don't seem to be able to turn it off. It's become a barrier to accepting the situation, forgiving my former therapist, and letting go of the pain.

 

HI inmediares.. I hope you are discussing this with your present therapist? Doing so would seem important.. all the best. ~S

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

Link to comment

I hope you are discussing this with your present therapist?

Thanks for the message. Yes, we spend a lot of time discussing the situation, and he's working to help me get past/through it.

Link to comment
  • Administrator

I suggest you discuss your trust issues with HIM, as well.

 

Feeling betrayed by a therapist is a very serious issue. It probably connects with other experiences you've had being betrayed by people you were close to that you trusted.

 

That he has suggested this is obsession is very troubling to me, as is that he even once suggested medication after you made your wishes clear.

 

He should be respecting your anger.

 

Look into your heart, do you think on some level he might also betray your trust?

 

It took me a very long time, years maybe, to get over it after being screwed over by a therapist, and I still haven't gotten over being screwed over by psychiatrists 8 years ago.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment

I've had this fear of being abandoned by my psychiatrist, the only doctor I've found willing to prescribe diazepam. I talked about my fear with my therapist, Dr. Caring.

 

Caring said I really shouldn't worry. That ethically she wouldn't/couldn't fire me without cause as I'm protected by patient abandonment clauses enforced by the licensing authorities.

 

I didn't look into this, but it made me feel better t least. But she is an MD and not a therapist.

 

I can imagine being terribly upset to be rejected by someone who was supposed to be supportive to your recovery. Heck, they had a financial incentive to be involved with you.

 

It's illustrative though that you're having this overwhelming response, relative to your expectations. Illustrative of w/d symptoms possibly or maybe jut hit a normal human trigger point in, for you, a sensitive area.... I'm glad you are discussing it here and with your new support system.

 

Best wishes,

Alex

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

Link to comment

I've tried 5-htp but for other reasons. It can help with digestive issues since it, evidently, largely interfaces with gut membranes. A reported side effect is diarrhea.

 

I've read of others experiencing anxiety or agitation on 5-htp, but they reported doses some multiple of mine. I may still use it now and then, but I've not noticed any neurological impact.

 

Everybody is different, so I couldn't speculate if it'd help you. However, if you've been taking it for a while and it's not helping...how long of a trial do you think it warrants?

 

Not be psychobabbly on you, but I know my therapist would get on her attachment trauma horse if something like this happened to me...

 

Lastly, I hope you re able to reign in the ruminating. Is there an herb or protocol which will help? Don't know. Is there same without which the problem will not resolve? Don't know, but doubt it.

 

The main issue is the distress the this is causing you. M really sorry to hear of it. Being analytical, I tend to over think. I've benefitted from reframing which I think there is some info here if you search around.

 

Best wishes,

Alex

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

Link to comment
  • Administrator

Thanks, alex.

 

inmediares, I moved your topic here as your Intro topic as it raises issues far beyond a simple question about 5-HTP.

 

Did you try antidepressants all that time because you had "obsessive" tendencies or was it for something else?

 

If you are concerned with a tendency toward ruminating, as alex calls it, cognitive behavior therapy is supposed to be helpful.

 

Personally, I wouldn't look to a pill, antidepressant or 5-HTP, which hasn't worked for you in 20 years, to correct habits of thinking. Rather, perhaps accepting who you are will get you further along -- look into Dialectical behavior therapy (DBT) or radical acceptance.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment

Inmediares,

I read this comment several times:

 

"Even from my perspective, this seems to surpass a normal or expected grief/loss reaction. I think, at least in part, it stems from my personality, which tends to be quite analytical."

 

I dont know if anyone can define a normal or expected grief/loss reaction and your situation is complicated. As I see it, it is not simple loss/grief. It is betrayal and abandonment by someone who should "have your back" so to speak. Abandonment without explanation. Please give yourself time to process this. 14 weeks is minimal, IMHO.

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

Link to comment

First, let me express my sincere thanks to everyone for all the responses. I appreciate your interest and I'm moved by your concern and compassion for my situation. Thank you.

 

Let me try and respond to some of the different points and questions that have been raised.

 

On the termination -- I'm reluctant to go into all the details here. I'm not sure whether re-telling the story helps me process, or merely fuels the pain an anger. Let me try to articulate some of what happened. I came to grips with the actual termination relatively quickly, within a matter of a few weeks or a month. It's not something I wanted, and I'm still unhappy about the choice she made, but I can't force someone to want to try and help me. But the manner in which she conducted the termination was, in my opinion, unprofessional and extremely traumatic. She informed me of her decision (actually, made her decision) in the middle of a session, immediately after I'd opened up about a difficulty I was continuing to experience in communicating with people close to me. It was something we'd worked on, I was continuing to have problems with it, and to be frank I think she lost patience. I reacted badly, and became agitated and tearful. I literally begged her multiple times not to end the relationship. She was dismissive of my fears, and sarcastic. In a subsequent phone call the next week (after I had paged my psychiatrist over the weekend, and met with him because I was considering suicide) she expressed her surprise that I was responding in this way, and blamed me for the failure of the relationship (all I needed to do was to communicate more with people close to me (no kidding), and that I was using therapy as an excuse not to change). Since then, she's refused to meet or speak with me, despite multiple requests to her, to my (now former) psychiatrist, and even a conversation with my new therapist. At one point, I threatened to commit suicide at her home. I left four voicemail messages over 2-3 weeks for her expressing the difficulty I was having, and asking for her help in transitioning. She did not respond to me, but advised my new therapist that she considered my actions harassing and that if I continued to try and communicate with her she would take action. At that point, my former psychiatrist also advised me he would no longer treat me (officially, because I had refused his suggestions for -- in order -- SSRI's, an anti-psychotic, TCA's, ECT, and hospitalization).

 

14 weeks is minimal, IMHO.

As I go through this, I'm inclined to agree -- maybe 14 weeks isn't enough time.

 

Did you try antidepressants all that time because you had "obsessive" tendencies or was it for something else?

My treatment over time has been for depression. I recall being depressed, and socially immature and withdrawn, for much of my childhood. There were a few specific incidents starting in my late twenties -- personal and career setbacks -- that prompted me to seek treatment. As I think I've mentioned before, the medications which had been prescribed provided little or no relief, and whatever gain they provided was short-lived. In hind-sight, it seems clear that this was because I was attempting to merely treat the symptoms and not address any of the underlying issues (multiple childhood traumas, and other issues). When therapy was suggested, I decided to try it -- at that point, I figured I had nothing to lose. I was deeply depressed, vaguely contemplating suicide, and was deeply withdrawn. The therapy, with my former therapist, was helpful in many ways. Over the two and one-half years I worked with her, I shared a lot of memories and pains that I had never shared with anyone. I was able to address some of those things, and the simple act of sharing was cathartic. I quit drinking, on my own and with her support, after having started at age 14 (I'm now 54). I lost a great deal of weight. I was treated for bladder cancer. I worked through the suicides of two friends (both men, about my age, with similar issues). I made it through the loss of a job, and a more than two year hunt for a new position. So, while I may not have been able to change some things about myself, I think her criticism that I was using therapy as an excuse not to change is unfair.

 

Being analytical, I tend to over think. I've benefitted from reframing which I think there is some info here if you search around.

Ruminating is probably a good way to describe my personality -- and I think the characteristic brings both positive and negative attributes. My analytical skills and capabilities are a strength -- except when I turn them on myself. But in this case, specifically trying to deal with the relationship, I think it's fair to describe me as obsessed. I think about the situation often, tend to run through the same things over and over, leading to depression, extreme anger, and anxiety.

 

I'm probably not articulating the relationship with my new therapist well -- I'm comfortable with his recommendation that I consider medication, even though we've discussed my reluctance to try again. I've been very open about what happened -- we discuss all of this at every session, often in-depth. I've shared my concerns and fears over starting again, and he's repeatedly reassured me that he won't abandon me. He's also been aggressive in trying different approaches, including EMDR, to help with past trauma (with a great deal of success). We're both pretty pragmatic about this, and open -- he's making suggestions that he thinks will help, I'm responding, and I don't feel coerced or pressured to do something I don't want to do.

 

I've read of others experiencing anxiety or agitation on 5-htp, but they reported doses some multiple of mine.

I've actually had the opposite problem. I tried 100 mg/day for a week. It actually seemed to help a bit with overall mood, and provided some emotional distance -- from everything. I went from obsessed and super-engaged to quite nearly apathetic. I was also tired, and felt like sleeping. The effect wore off by the end of the day, so most evenings I was back into the stress and anxiety. I've stopped for at least a couple of days to see how my system responds -- I haven't noticed any issues with withdrawal. I've discovered there is a time-release version of 5-HTP. It's possible I'll try that -- I don't expect that a medication or supplement is going to "cure" my issues and heal the trauma I've experienced. But if there is something that's going to help me keep my life together while I try and work through the healing, I'd be interested.

 

This is all probably too much. If so, I'm sorry. As I mentioned at the outset, I appreciate everyone's comments and concern. I'm deeply moved by your interest and compassion. Thanks for your help.

Link to comment

Never too much, Inmediares. I've tried MANY therapists over the years with no benefit (aside from the one i mentioned). It's only since DCing SS/NRIs after many years that I'm realizing I have *stuff*. Talking it out here has helped me to recognize that what I rationalized away as "a pretty average childhood and life" was, in actuality, packed full of notsoaverage *tuffstuff*, alot of which I have not yet processed.

 

I believe ruminating can sometimes be a way our minds force us to work through life issues (evolutionary psych).

 

Please feel free to discuss more as is comfortable for you. I'm so sorry that you're experiencing more trauma in your therapy. Have you read "The Drama of the Gifted Child"? That came to mind as you described your therapy experiences. Perhaps your *stuff* triggered therapist's *stuff*...?

 

Just thinking out loud.

 

Many hugs.

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus

 

Please feel free to discuss more as is comfortable for you. I'm so sorry that you're experiencing more trauma in your therapy. Have you read "The Drama of the Gifted Child"? That came to mind as you described your therapy experiences. Perhaps your *stuff* triggered therapist's *stuff*...?

 

Just thinking out loud.

 

Many hugs.

 

Just not being able to work thru *stuff* triggered the therapist's *stuff*. ~S

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

Link to comment

I have read "Drama of the Gifted Child." My new therapist suggested it. I read it pretty quickly when we first started, I thought there was a lot there that resonated with my experiences. I'd probably like to go back and read it again more slowly.

 

I think Schuyler's comment about not being able to work through stuff triggered her stuff is pretty on the mark. I don't know. It's possible I said or did something that angered her or that she's reacting to--I don't know. I think she just ran out of patience/interest. She refuses to speak with me, so I'll never know.

 

Thanks.

Link to comment

Inmediares,

 

I'm sure Schuyler will be better able to comment. In the meantime, it is critical to remember that you are not at fault or in any way responsible for the therapist's reactions/responses to anything you said or were working on in therapy. It is her job and responsibility to separate out HER STUFF from YOUR STUFF (or any client).

 

It is total speculation on my part, but perhaps she knew her stuff was somehow interfering with her objectivity and ability to help you due to SOMETHING OF HER OWN, totally unrelated to you.

 

The Drama of the Gifted Child is interesting because it deals with that exact issue: therapists bringing their own *stuff* into their work with clients. I'm sorry that your original therapist wasn't able to offer a better explanation that would have taken this burden and guilt off of you.

 

Have you explained these exact feelings to your current therapist?

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

Link to comment

Just to clarify, the Drama of the Gifted Child was recommended by my new therapist -- not the one who terminated the relationship. I think he suggested it because of my experiences in early childhood.

 

I really think, based on the way the old therapist acted, that she was tired of working with me.

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus

I really think, based on the way the old therapist acted, that she was tired of working with me.

 

Even more to the point, it sounds like she did not feel successful and blamed you for her inadequacy. ~S

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

Link to comment

I misread earlier message and amended my previous response. I apologize for my misinterpretation.

 

Bottom line... it is not your fault or responsibility to handle anyone else's *STUFF*, including -and especially - a therapist's. Perhaps a reread of Drama of Gifted Child to see how it may apply to your relationship with the therapist also.

 

I relate to much of what you say because I often analyze and feel guilty, mistakenly believing that I *make* other people feel a certain way - always bad :(

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

Link to comment

I apologize for my misinterpretation.

No worries, and no need to apologize. I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

Link to comment

Even more to the point, it sounds like she did not feel successful and blamed you for her inadequacy.

Maybe...you probably had to be there, but I never got the feeling that she didn't think she was being unsuccessful. All the blame was on me.

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus

Even more to the point, it sounds like she did not feel successful and blamed you for her inadequacy.

Maybe...you probably had to be there, but I never got the feeling that she didn't think she was being unsuccessful. All the blame was on me.

 

And that was the problem, she did not think so because she put the responsibility on you. An easy out. And nope, I did not need to be there to get the gist, take it from one who and shares with clients when she feels stuck!

 

BTW.. when you can accept deep down it really was her failing and get a sense as to where it came from, you may find the obsessions lose some of their power. At least I sincerely hope so.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

Link to comment

...when you can accept deep down it really was her failing and get a sense as to where it came from, you may find the obsessions lose some of their power.

I think I do accept that...but given how I feel, maybe I'm kidding myself.

 

I've said for awhile that I'm "ok" with her deciding she didn't want to work with me...I don't like it, and it's not what I wanted. But -- I'm rational enough to realize that if it's not working for her, whatever the reason, it's not going to work for me.

 

Where everything goes off the track is in how she handled the termination. She could have tried to make the transition easier for me. She could have responded when I called, wrote a letter, and left messages. She could have talked with me when I was considering suicide. She did nothing. Except blame me, and threaten me with the consequences if I continued to try and speak with her. She left all of it to others to clean up. I really think she didn't care, and didn't understand why I was so upset.

 

I don't know. I'm sorry, I'm not sure any of this is anything you can respond to...I'm just venting. Thanks for listening.

Link to comment

My experience with therapists has been varied wildly. I first started as a teen and viewed my first couple as authority figures, that if we saw things differently, it was I who was seeing I inaccurately.

 

I went to a psychiatric clinic in 2008 for 7 weeks and for the first time, this started to change. I realized a key point my therapist insisted upon didn't fit my experience. As hard as I tried to accept it, I eventually concluded she 'might' be incorrect in her assessment... (as it turns out, she was...)

 

Since then, and it's been a slow process since I was sorta raised by therapists since my parents weren't up to it... I've realized that my doctor and therapist are simply people like me. As such as they are prone to mistakes, emotional reactions, feelings generated from being in the superior position with respect to clients, etc.

 

More than anything, I've realized how frequently therapists make mistakes. When one considers many clients also are medicated or polymedicated by a shrink, the possibility for misinterpretation increases, close to 100%.

 

I rarely offer unsolicited advice, so I will not give you any. But, in my experience, the actions and opinions of my therapists and dcotors bother me a lot less now, since I understand their limitations are the expertise GAP between us -- that until I die I will always better know my life and my feelings than any outsider possibly could.

 

It's taken me a lot of therapy to get to a place where I understand the benefits and drawbacks of therapeutic relationships. But, after a few thousand hrs, with dozens of counselors and doctors in private practice and at institutions, I've learned to right size these things.

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

Link to comment

Alex -

 

Thanks. This all makes sense -- at least intellectually. I understand all of that, and I agree. She was unprofessional. She misunderstood my feelings and needs. She just didn't care. Whatever -- there are all kinds of possible reasons this happened, none of which really have anything to do with me. But it all falls apart emotionally. That's what I struggle with most -- I'm fundamentally trying to understand why it is this hurts so much, and why it's hard for me to let go. I feel like I should be able to just accept it and go on -- focus my attention and time with my new therapist, instead of asking him for help in dealing with this. Which probably brings us full circle back to the topic of obsession.

 

Thanks again.

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus

I feel like I should be able to just accept it and go on -- focus my attention and time with my new therapist, instead of asking him for help in dealing with this. Which probably brings us full circle back to the topic of obsession.

 

Thanks again.

 

Do you think the problem could be that you need to incorporate good and with bad.. for two years you worked together and gained quite a lot. Then, in one session everything seemed to be torn apart. Your therapist came up short, very short in fact. So you are left with the need to juggle positive memories with the way things ended. She is a flawed person, but this does not negate the good work you did together..

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

Link to comment

I feel like I should be able to just accept it and go on -- focus my attention and time with my new therapist, instead of asking him for help in dealing with this. Which probably brings us full circle back to the topic of obsession.

 

Thanks again.

 

Do you think the problem could be that you need to incorporate good and with bad.. for two years you worked together and gained quite a lot. Then, in one session everything seemed to be torn apart. Your therapist came up short, very short in fact. So you are left with the need to juggle positive memories with the way things ended. She is a flawed person, but this does not negate the good work you did together..

 

I think this is an interesting point.

 

Drawing from my experience, I've gained something from all of my therapeutic relationships. It seems that you gained a lot as well. I always feel the hardest "divorces" to deal with are when there's been much positive to the relationship but the separation is harsh/abrupt/unexpected/mean-spirited or what you have you. I end up with strong and mixed feelings... Complicates things...

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

Link to comment

Alex -

But it all falls apart emotionally. That's what I struggle with most -- I'm fundamentally trying to understand why it is this hurts so much, and why it's hard for me to let go. I feel like I should be able to just accept it and go on --

 

I think that's the key.

 

Setting intellectualizations and rationalizations aside... you trusted someone with your most personal thoughts and feelings. She left you without explanation. Aside from intentional abandonement by a parent, I can't think of any betrayal and HURT of similar magnitude.

If someone dies expectedly or unexpectedly, grief is understandable. It is not rushed. This is beyond grief, imho.

 

I would be reacting the same way you are. My mind seeks to understand -to make sense of - emotional pain especially when the result of someone's behavior, a someone who was supposed to be an emotional ally. Reconciling that the helpful, positive ally 'chose' to leave is a tall order.

 

I will "just accept" or "just get over" things in time. Before that, I don't believe it's "obsession". Everyone grieves on their own schedule. I'm sorry that the new therapist is dictating your schedule. Please don't judge yourself.

 

{{{HUGS}}}

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

Link to comment

Drawing from my experience, I've gained something from all of my therapeutic relationships. It seems that you gained a lot as well. I always feel the hardest "divorces" to deal with are when there's been much positive to the relationship but the separation is harsh/abrupt/unexpected/mean-spirited or what you have you. I end up with strong and mixed feelings... Complicates things...

 

That's a good point. I did feel that I gained a lot from the experience and the relationship. It might be a bit easier to just walk away from if I could look at the relationship as having been a poor fit, or non-productive.

 

Thank you for the insights.

Link to comment

{{{HUGS}}}

 

Thanks. :)

 

I really appreciate everyone's concern and support. It's very helpful, thank you.

Link to comment
  • Administrator

inmediares, it sounds to me like you have very strong feelings about rejection.

 

I suggest you discuss this with your new therapist, if you feel you can trust him with your deepest emotions. Actually, I would discuss your trust issues with him first.

 

As for the 5-htp, it doesn't sound like it's doing much at all.

 

(EMDR??? It sounds to me like you are drawn to therapies that involve doing anything but exploring your feelings. There aren't any shortcuts in getting to know yourself.)

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment

inmediares, it sounds to me like you have very strong feelings about rejection.

 

Interesting that you should point that out...I was journaling this morning and one of the recurring themes was a remembrance of many rejections. My parents, particularly my mother, friends, teachers, and others...and most recently, by my former therapist. It does seem to be the thread that ties much of this together. I think I knew I had issues with rejection -- after all, who wouldn't -- but I'd never quite realized until today how much of an issue it really has been.

 

 

(EMDR??? It sounds to me like you are drawn to therapies that involve doing anything but exploring your feelings. There aren't any shortcuts in getting to know yourself.)

 

Maybe, maybe not.

 

I'd certainly agree there don't seem to be any shortcuts. If nothing else, I've been trying to figure this out for 54 years and I've not sorted it out yet. Perhaps I'm just a slow learner. :-)

 

But that said, I think I've done a lot of work, in therapy and on my own, in trying to understand myself better -- CBT, talking, meditation and a growing spiritual practice.

 

If anything, I'd probably like to position myself as pragmatic. Depending on the risk, I'm open to trying things -- and I've tried quite a few.

 

EMDR seemed like a low/no risk approach to dealing with some things that have bothered me for a long time. I came to it with low expectations -- I didn't really think it would make a difference. So I was surprised when it did actually work.

 

Here's an example -- I was sexually abused when I was ten years old, by a friend. It's a memory that has been extremely vivid -- and painful -- for my entire life. I've certainly thought about it often enough, tried to understand it. I talked about it with both my former and current therapists. Nothing ever really changed about the intensity of the memory, or how I felt about it. We worked on it with EMDR and within a few sessions my feelings about it changed -- dramatically. The memory was less intense, I felt less guilt (it was never anything I did, but I felt guilty about it nonetheless), and there's just less pain associated with the memory.

 

Will EMDR work with other memories and issues? I don't know -- but I'm willing to try it. If it works, I'll do more. If not, I won't.

 

I think I mentioned somewhere along the way that I quit drinking a little over two years ago. My therapist strongly recommended AA. I went, and hated it. Made things worse. I was able to quit on my own.

 

My (former) psychiatrist, following the termination by his therapist, strongly recommended a mix of SSRI's, TCA's, hospitalization, and ECT. I rejected them all, and he's no longer my physician.

 

The 5-HTP is a tough call -- on the one hand, it might help. But it's hardly low risk -- messing with serotonin levels is messing with serotonin levels, regardless of whether the agent is "natural" or not. It hasn't worked for me in the past, and -- as everyone here is already well aware, it's a high risk experiment. I've given it a try. It's definitely doing something, although I'm not sure it's helping solve the problem. So I think I'm done with that...

 

So I don't know. I appreciate that it takes time -- but I'm not sure how much time I have left. I've given up so much of my life to this depression, or whatever the hell it is. If I can find a way to speed up the process, I'm going to take it...and I think that's ok.

 

Thanks.

Link to comment
  • Administrator

I know dealing with it is difficult, but you have a very scarred emotional history.

 

You might look more closely at your current therapist to see if his approach is appropriate for you. It sounds to me like radical acceptance, rather than tools to deflect feelings, might be more helpful.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment

Re: Radical Acceptance, are you talking specifically about the book by Tara Brach? Or is there a more general approach?

Link to comment
  • Administrator

Google Dialectical behavior therapy (DBT)

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use Privacy Policy