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Obsessive compulsive disorder or OCD: Repetitive intrusive thoughts, compulsive behaviors

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btdt

 

I have no idea if this will work but it comes from the book on brain plasticity by Norman Doidge 

the video is the guy who wrote the book brain lock... 

supposedly the new cutting edge help for ocd... 

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Farout

I'm new to this forum, so I'm not sure of the protocols with posting links but I wanted to share something that has helped me immensely through WD. I had significant harm OCD style thoughts - both around my kids and for myself. I never had them before I took AD and I haven't had them (or been bothered by them) for a long time but recently had a bad wave, where they all came flooding back - along with some new themes as well.

 

I read this article daily in the early days and went back to it in the recent wave. I mentally insert 'withdrawal' before OCD in the article - i.e. 'You are bothered by these thougts because you have WITHDRAWAL OCD'.

 

http://ocdspecialists.com/bizarre-thoughts-and-me-confessions-of-an-ocd-therapist/

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Farout

Purplesky, I disagree but, fortunately, don't feel any need to justify myself or my experience to you.

 

Regardless of how caused, there is absolutely no harm in a person informing themselves about the patterns of OCD and obsessional/intrusive thoughts and to try to recognise and alter unhelpful thought processes that can be feeding it. The posts on here share information in the spirit of support for people who are going through a difficult time. I'm not entirely sure what your motivation is.

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Broken

OCD is OCD regardless if how it originally came to be and the way in which you need to address it is no different.

 

Just my correct opinion and excuse me if I'm coming across as somewhat arrogant and big headed.

 

I am.

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Tootsieroll

Sorry for jumping in here, but I need some insight on my OCD issue.  I have this repetitive movement OCD.  If I start off with a movement such as brushing my teeth, it's almost like it has momentum and then I find it hard to stop that motion.  It's as if the brain took that signal in a current and the current perpetuates till it either becomes a big wave or it slowly dissipates.  Regardless, it all starts off with a repetitive movement.  I'm 18 months off celexa and 15 months off  2 months of benzo use.  Is it all interconnected?  Is this considered protracted?

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btdt

Sorry for jumping in here, but I need some insight on my OCD issue.  I have this repetitive movement OCD.  If I start off with a movement such as brushing my teeth, it's almost like it has momentum and then I find it hard to stop that motion.  It's as if the brain took that signal in a current and the current perpetuates till it either becomes a big wave or it slowly dissipates.  Regardless, it all starts off with a repetitive movement.  I'm 18 months off celexa and 15 months off  2 months of benzo use.  Is it all interconnected?  Is this considered protracted?

I don't think it is protracted yet.  The majority of people I think have some wd going on for a good 3 years post stopping.  I am not too sure about the benzos I am just learning about them some from reading here I quit them like I quit everything else the wrong way.  

I am trying to think of repetitive movement ocd .. not sure I have heard that term before and suspect we are just messing around with terms here it is likely called something else my weary brain can't think of just now. 

I will sleep on it and maybe somebody else will clue in and answer you before I get up .

peace

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Tootsieroll

LOL i think i may have made that term up myself.  I guess it is aptly called the compulsive part of the OCD.  Just imagine a parkinsons patient and how their hand can shake from one direction to the next and it never ceases to stop, unless with major effort and anxiety.  Is it just the wiring of the brain gone wrong and it's shooting the signals repeatedly?  I read up that in Parkinsons, the issue is no dopamine.  It has to make me wonder.  It only continues when I start up a movement THEN my thought process tells me that I have to continue doing it or my anxiety will get worse.  But it's almost as if it was involuntary.

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btdt

LOL i think i may have made that term up myself.  I guess it is aptly called the compulsive part of the OCD.  Just imagine a parkinsons patient and how their hand can shake from one direction to the next and it never ceases to stop, unless with major effort and anxiety.  Is it just the wiring of the brain gone wrong and it's shooting the signals repeatedly?  I read up that in Parkinsons, the issue is no dopamine.  It has to make me wonder.  It only continues when I start up a movement THEN my thought process tells me that I have to continue doing it or my anxiety will get worse.  But it's almost as if it was involuntary.

 

I think I know what you mean .. kind of.. there is counting thing I use to do that involved my fingers.. at some point in withdrawal I just had to count and touch my fingers to my thumbs.. when I use to work with kids I would often notice some kids doing this... for some it meant they were in thought for others it meant .. that is enough of this activity... I need time out.. 

 

I worked with disabled kids not all of them could speak so being aware of cues was important... 

 

The parkinsons I wonder about too... I have been shaking again at the start of a movement.. just sometimes but it is back and I don't like it.. two things now smells making me sick and the shaking .. intermittently .. I am thinking it passed once before it can pass again. I do wonder what set it off... I had a car accident it was back bad after that for a time... and is back again now. I am not sure it may be just part of wd for some of us... and maybe this is just waves coming and going... still. 

Naturally if your in this process and a major stress comes it will kick of a wd response things like car accidents you can expect fallow out... the rest.. why it comes and goes... rubic cube I guess.. I don't know. 

 

As with all things wd getting bent our of shape by it does not help so I try not to but some days I do freak out.. depends on the day. Time will be the deciding factor it comes and it goes... just hoping to end this story on a go not a come.. if you know what I mean. 

peace

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RockSie

Hi guys,

 

i just want to know if anybody knows this symptoms? Its a kind of obsessive doubts if its wd or not. I dont know how to explain it exactly. The whole day I have to think about it. Like obsessive rumination. Then I try to analyze everything. 

Thank u so much.

 

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Altostrata

Added Admin Note to post #1.

 

Let me also say I am extremely proud of our many members who have learned how to meditate or use CBT or DBT or other disciplines to manage their obsessive tendencies while on the journey to going off drugs.

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antidepressantsNoMore

Anyone here suffer from Pure-OCD?? All obsessions reside in your head along with the horrible intrusive thoughts. It can provoke some physical symptoms but is more mental than ritual. It is a horrible thing.

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LucaDiProspero

Anyone here suffer from Pure-OCD?? All obsessions reside in your head along with the horrible intrusive thoughts. It can provoke some physical symptoms but is more mental than ritual. It is a horrible thing.

yes, mine is pure-OCD.

As i wrote in my thread, during all the day I keep asking to myself why I have to watch TV (also when I watch TV) or why I have to take a shower, to go out for a walk and so on. What's the point in doing anything?

Same questions when I have a conversation with someone: why saying anything to him/her, what's the point in speaking about everything?

And also when I'm alone I keep asking to myself: what I have to think now? I don't know what to think! it's odd :/

I think it's something related to nihilistic/existential depression.

I mean, we simply exist without a reason so we are obliged to do something in order to fill the day every day. It's like an over-active consciousness...I'm aware all the time of my mind and my body. I don't really know if this OCD is from WD or is something different!

Anyone has similar obsessions?

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antidepressantsNoMore

 

Anyone here suffer from Pure-OCD?? All obsessions reside in your head along with the horrible intrusive thoughts. It can provoke some physical symptoms but is more mental than ritual. It is a horrible thing.

yes, mine is pure-OCD.

As i wrote in my thread, during all the day I keep asking to myself why I have to watch TV (also when I watch TV) or why I have to take a shower, to go out for a walk and so on. What's the point in doing anything?

Same questions when I have a conversation with someone: why saying anything to him/her, what's the point in speaking about everything?

And also when I'm alone I keep asking to myself: what I have to think now? I don't know what to think! it's odd :/

I think it's something related to nihilistic/existential depression.

I mean, we simply exist without a reason so we are obliged to do something in order to fill the day every day. It's like an over-active consciousness...I'm aware all the time of my mind and my body. I don't really know if this OCD is from WD or is something different!

Anyone has similar obsessions?

 

 

Pure-O OCD is a living hell. The worst thing about the intrusive thoughts is the doubt that comes along with it. When in doubt, we seek re-assurance, and the cycle repeats itself. I'm on Prozac now. It is very good at treating OCD.

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LucaDiProspero

antidepressantsnomore, my pure ocd is unbearable.

I also read Prozac is good in treating ocd, do you think I should start it?

I don't know if a new ssri is good for my mind! I finished tapering my last one four months ago.

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servadei

Luca, I definitely wouldn't start another sssri. I think therapy like cbt would be much more healthier and successfully in the long run.

I also ruminate all the time and I'm overly aware of my own existence. It is quite hard to live like that :/

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antidepressantsNoMore

antidepressantsnomore, my pure ocd is unbearable.

I also read Prozac is good in treating ocd, do you think I should start it?

I don't know if a new ssri is good for my mind! I finished tapering my last one four months ago.

 

I had to go back on prozac. I am currently taking it for OCD. It is helping. I know a lot of people are agaisnt SSRI on this forum after all the mess. However, the prozac is helping me with intrusive thoughts.

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Polly1974

Hello everyone

 

I'm so sorry to bother you all. Need some reassurance that I'm not alone here.

 

Is there anyone else who is really struggling with their original anxiety problem during their withdrawal.

 

My original diagnoses was and OCD type phobia. The thoughts and fears I am dealing with now are off the scale compared to pre Benzos? The thoughts are relentless, have more power and the fear is much stronger.

 

If there is anyone else with something similar I would love to hear from you it would give me so much hope.

 

Thanks everyone,

Polly

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Petunia

Its quite common for an original (psychological) problem to get worse in withdrawal, if it hasn't been dealt with through counseling or other treatments. Anxiety is a common symptom of withdrawal, and any underlying patterns of thinking and behaviour triggered by anxiety will be intensified.

 

Some people who have never experienced OCD or phobias before, will develop them in withdrawal.

 

See: OCD: obsessive thoughts, compulsive behaviors - Surviving ...  *topics merged

Edited by Petunia
updated

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caperjackie

WD anxiety is a whole different beastie to the original condition. As you say ....... 'off the scale' .......... One good thing about it is that once it calms down, the anxiety we had pre meds (which in a lot of cases put us on the meds) is like a walk in the park by comparison. Hang in there ....... it eventually becomes more bearable .....

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HopeforBetter1110

Polly1974, you're not alone. And it was helpful coming across your post because I'm looking for reassurance today, too. I'm struggling most lately with rumination, guilt, and panic/anxiety. I really don't feel this was what I was like previous to medications, but my mind makes me doubt myself often. These withdrawal emotions can be so scary and painful.

 

Like caperjackie said, it seems that once this is all over and we've been able to survive and work through these neuro emotions of withdrawal, that our original struggles should be much easier to deal with. 

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Altostrata

Heightened anxiety is such a very common withdrawal symptom, one need not have a pre-existing "anxiety disorder" to experience it intensely in withdrawal.

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Theon

Hello people, 

 

I have been reciently dealing with HOCD that is basically a type of ocd in which you are worried of being homosexual, like I am getting intrusive thoughts about : What if ssri have made mehomosexual? and that causes me fear.

 

I have always been straight and always liked girls until fluoxetine killed my libido and sexuality, now I am basically asexual,,, but with the fear of becoming homosexual. 

 

The thing is that now I am getting intrusive thoughts that tell me that I might have become homosexual because of the ssri... and that causes me fear because I don't want to be homosexual (I have nothing against them, really, but I want to recover my own sexuality)...

 

This is caused directly by pssd, because if I still had my sexuality, I wouldn't fear becoming homosexual (again I don't have anything against them)

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bluebalu86

There are many resources online how to deal with all kinds of OCD. Can you afford to work closely with a qualified therapist?

Your thoughts are irrational and have no basis in reality. You cannot "become" homosexual. You either are or you aren't. It's not something that changes like that. 

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Shoulditakethis

Theon, I'm sorry to hear your problems but I can relate and maybe offer some advice.

 

Although I took antidepressants for migraines I also suffer from OCD. One of my first themes, among several now haha, was HOCD. I'd been with several girls and had a long time girlfriend at that point.

 

Just remember to accept any intrusive thoughts, ignoring them or stifling them will make them come back with vengeance. It isn't easy but you have to cope with the anxiety that they bring. Try finding a psychologist, they can really help. You are not homosexual.

 

I've beaten HOCD and you can too.

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Theon

Theon, I'm sorry to hear your problems but I can relate and maybe offer some advice.

 

Although I took antidepressants for migraines I also suffer from OCD. One of my first themes, among several now haha, was HOCD. I'd been with several girls and had a long time girlfriend at that point.

 

Just remember to accept any intrusive thoughts, ignoring them or stifling them will make them come back with vengeance. It isn't easy but you have to cope with the anxiety that they bring. Try finding a psychologist, they can really help. You are not homosexual.

 

I've beaten HOCD and you can too.

 

But Shoulditakethis, it is easy to know that you are not gay if you are straight and like girls, but now I am just asexual. I suffer from pssd. So if anything I have to convince myself that I am asexual and not gay, because I feel the same way when I look to a naked girl as when I look to a naked guy; I just feel nothing at all... So maybe I have to accept this new asexual me. At least being asexual scares me less than being gay, because of stigma I guess.

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JanCarol

Hudgeons:

 

I don't know if this will work for others but this is how I dealt with my own obsessional/unwanted thoughts.

First, I recognized that trying to run away from these thoughts doesn't work any better than dwelling on them.

Dismissing them doesn't work either. If you try and dismiss them they will get angry (so to speak) and return

later, and usually more insistent-they don't like being ignored, and respond by getting louder (more annoying).

Trying to distract yourself from them is about the same thing with the same results. Dwelling on them seems to add

to there strength, so when you put them back in your memory, they are either just as strong or stronger, and will

thus, certainly return.

 

So, what kind of response is left?

 

The answer is to take them as exactly as they are. What I mean here is that the other methods mentioned above are essentially

exaggerations (or not taking them as they really are). Dismissing them or distracting yourself from them is the same as saying they have no meaning or that they don't really exist, respectively. (Distraction being a kind of pretending they're not there). Dwelling on them is like overemphasizing their importance. all 3 methods are exaggerations and therefore not dealing with the problem as it really is. So the answer is to move from strategies that are unrealistic (so to speak) and move to a strategy that takes in the reality of the problem, no more, no less.

 

The way to take the problem (unwanted idea) as exactly what it is, is exactly that. You have to begin by letting the thought be exactly what is is. So how do you do this without simultaneously dwelling on it? You accomplish this by not focusing on the

"content" of the thought but instead, on the feeling(s) it (the thought) creates at the time. So when the thought(s) arise, look within and observe how you're feeling at that time, just letting the feeling be exactly what it is, no judgments about it at all, in fact no interpreting it in words here. Just a scanning, for example,  how different parts of your body feel individually, or how you're feeling overall. The focus must me nonjudgmental and a simple sort of focus or awareness of your inner state just after the unwanted thought occurs.

 

This technique can be practiced for a minute or so.

 

The immediate result is that the unwanted thought does not have the usual negative impact. the long term result is in an unwanted thought returning less and less, and even when it does, it's affect is progressively weaker. I think that this is because of putting it back into your memory in a slightly weaker form each time you practice this simple, though not necessarily easy, technique. You begin to associate it with the calming effect of the technique. 

 

It can also help if, after the above technique, you can remember something (anything) in your memory that you feel good about. I used to recall a sitcom I enjoyed watching. This helps further weaken the unwanted thought(s) because thoughts that are linked in time are also linked then in the memory, and they, being that close, affect each other. And so you will be weakening the unwanted thoughts in two ways each time they occur.

 

I just gotta bump this and say, this is GREAT!  Thank you Hudgeons for some awesome insight into management of intrusive and persistent thoughts.

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JanCarol

Theon writes:  

 

I have been reciently dealing with HOCD that is basically a type of ocd in which you are worried of being homosexual, like I am getting intrusive thoughts about : What if ssri have made mehomosexual? and that causes me fear.I have always been straight and always liked girls until fluoxetine killed my libido and sexuality, now I am basically asexual,,, but with the fear of becoming homosexual. 

It's just a thought, Theon. 

 

Why would that be horrible?  So what?  

 

Why not hang out with the asexuals on http://www.asexuality.org/en and sort it out?

 

That's what I've been doing, similar to - not homosexual - but "what if I'm frigid?"

 

When I talk to these asexuals, I find - there are all kinds of people in this world. The asexuals on that site are very good at exploring relationships, and facets of relationships in open and curious ways.  Very healthy.   So what if I am a people like this one or that one?  So what if I find I now prefer chanting rhymes to goldfish instead of having sex?  Explore the feeling of NON sexuality, and when you come out on the other side, you may find you are open to all kinds of options.

 

It's like Hudgens said:  acknowledge the thought, call it that - if you can, acknowledge the feeling behind the thought.  Then call it a "thought."  This is just a thought.  This is a withdrawal thought, or a neuro-thought.  Then, think of something else (like your breath, or a pretty view, or a good feeling).  Rewrite your own script.

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JanCarol

This post will not make me popular.  Think of it as a cognitive challenge.  Most of my complaint is linguistic, but behind the linguistic is, I believe, a thinking pattern which feeds "OCD."


 


Other mods and posters have hinted at this, but I'm going to just come out and say it.


 


You see, I don't believe in "OCD," it wasn't invented until it was put into the DSM IV-TR in 2000.  It is psychobabble.


 


It is more helpful and realistic to discuss:  intrusive thoughts, persistent thoughts, sticky thoughts, reactions to fear, thoughts of harm, and sticky feelings.  It is more real to talk about urges, ugly thoughts, horrible images, persistent internal dialogue, obsession with harm, rumination, stuck in a rut. And discuss the feelings that give rise to these intrusive and persistent  thoughts.


 


OCD is, by its very nature, a DISORDER, as named by the American Psychiatric Association in the DSM. 


 


When I hear so many of you saying "Oh I have OCD" it's like you are admitting that you have a psychiatric disorder.  That you are a victim of that disorder, that this disorder can be triggered by things beyond your control.  That you can put these thoughts and feelings and suffering in a little box named "OCD" and lock it away.


 


But that only makes it worse.


 


I'm not denying the reality of these thoughts, feelings, intrusions, stickiness, repetitiveness, pain, fear, - or horribleness of these things.  I'm only challenging what you call it. 


 


I challenge you to - every time you want to say "It's my OCD" - do you want to OWN it?  Does it OWN you?  Are you married to or in a relationship with it, like "My BFF?"


 


Or


 


When you say, "I HAVE OCD" - oh, can you buy or sell it? Stockpile it? Is it contagious?  Can you eat or drink it, does it fill up an empty hole?


 


Or


 


When you say, "I AM OCD" - what?  Is it your IDENTITY?


 


Or even,


 


"I suffer from OCD" - "this disorder, which I am a victim of - makes me suffer." Talking like this takes away your choice (and it is this choice which I am challenging) - if only by thinking differently, you no longer HAVE, ARE, GET, or SUFFER FROM OCD.  You may experience Obsessive, instrusive, ruminating, frightening thoughts, and maybe even OCBehaviours, but OCD is fiction, made up by doctors and drug companies, to sell pills.


 


IF your compelling, suffering, terrible horrible intrusive thoughts become ACTIONS, that is when it becomes the OCD of the DSM.  Compulsions.  You have to wash your hands.  You have to avoid carrying coins in your pocket.  You can't go out in the rain.  You have to check your power switches, you have to turn around and sit down before you walk out the door because you know you've forgotten something.


 


BUT I CHALLENGE THE VERY DSM.  I don't like diagnosis, any diagnosis.  If you have these compulsions - how about calling it "Obsessive Compulsive BEHAVIOUR." (OCB) Because a disorder takes your power away - but calling it behaviour puts the power back into your hands.


 


(yes, I have obsessive compulsive behaviours.  I'll keep them to myself for now, just trust that I'm working on them.  I will confess to ruminating on my husband's smell for the past 48 hours.  WTF?)


 


BUT - if it doesn't get to the BEHAVIOUR - then - it's just thoughts and feelings.  It's not OCD and it's not OCB.  Like Broken said:  It starts with "What if. . . ."


 


Challenge yourself.  If it's just a thought, then you can, as Hudgeons says, admit:  it is just a thought.  If it is a sticky, horrible fear or feeling, Acknowledge:  It is a sticky horrible fear or feeling.  Accept it.  And Float (thank you Brassmonkey for the AAF acronym)


 


In Acknowledging it, use feeling words, not "diagnosis words'  (I have this same feeling about "Manic" and even "anxiety," and "triggers," because these are intellectual descriptions of a feeling - but not the feeling itself. 


 


Here is a suggestion for feeling words. 


 


Feeling Vocabulary Wheel


 


And here is my challenge:  anytime you are telling yourself, telling me, telling others about something in your mind, your feelings, your experience, your situation, and you want to use "diagnosis words" like "OCD", "anxiety", or "manic" or even "ADHD" or "triggering" -


 


Be still for a moment, look at the "Feeling Wheel" or any other of the plentiful lists of "Feeling words" on the web, and pick words that better express what you are feeling, without feeding the hungry diagnostic DSM monster, or your own victimhood of that DSM.


Edited by JanCarol
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JanCarol

Claire Weekes:  "An obsession is just a strange thought in a tired mind."

 

I would add: with emotional content and attachment, the strange thought keeps repeating.  It is the fear of the thought which makes the thought so powerful.

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marie2015

I have had OCD for years. The usual treatment (apart from medication) is CBT and in particular Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP). It is considered the gold standard. But there is also a new approach, a specific form of CBT : Inference-Based Approach (IBA). I did around 20 sessions with a therapist specialized in this approach and it helped me a lot. Just my 2 cents!

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ChessieCat

JanCarol,

 

An excellent post!  Labelling sets it in stone, recognising the thoughts and feelings makes it something that you can challenge and learn to do something about, remembering the neuroplasticity of the brain.  The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg is worthwhile reading.

 

CC

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Petunia

An article from The OCD Recovery Center about the use of Inositol.

 

Animal and human studies have shown Inositol to have efficacy in treating: Mild-Moderate Anxiety; Panic Attacks; Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD); Agoraphobia; Simple Phobias; Social Phobia; Sensory Nerve Problems; Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, Mild-Moderate Depression.

 

http://www.ocdrecoverycenters.com/about/prot_inositol.html

 

edit - I just found another article written by a doctor about the use of Inositol for OCD

 

Inositol and OCD  By Frederick Penzel, Ph.D.

 

Also see our Inositol topic for a discussion of its use while tapering or in withdrawal.

Edited by Petunia
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JanCarol

...and here I was gonna let the inositol go.  I can't tell what it is doing for me, but if it helps with the sticky thoughts, rumination, and rituals - well.  That's a thing!  Thanks Petunia!

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antidepressantsNoMore

OCD is a real disorder, it is an anxiety disorder and is horrible. Prozac has gotten rid of 80 to 90 percent of the intrusive thoughts/rituals I used to preform. It also has taken away a lot of the compulsive reassurance behavior I used to preform caused by distress from the intrusive thoughts/rituals/uncertainty.

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RockSie

Hi guys, I'm thinking a lot about the ocd thing. In Germany ocd isnt a anxiety disorder. Before taking citalopram I was diagnosed with panicattacks. I jumped from one doctor to another while thinking I was truly ill. Maybe these was ocd too?? After stopping citalopram my main symptom was intrusive thoughts about suicide. Do you think its practically the same? Maybe the intrusive thoughts about suicide isn't withdrawal but my mental illness? Thank you!

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