Obsessive compulsive disorder or OCD: Repetitive intrusive thoughts, compulsive behaviors

[thecowisback]

And that is where my big mistake lies - I believe every one of them when they arise! I just cannot convince myself they are not real until a few days of worrying myself sick has passed. 

[mstimc]

18 hours ago, thecowisback said:

And that is where my big mistake lies - I believe every one of them when they arise! I just cannot convince myself they are not real until a few days of worrying myself sick has passed. 

 

My thoughts had the same overwhelming feeling.  A few days or weeks later, they may have seemed ridiculous, but in the moment they were terrifying.  One of my paths to recovery was reducing the "reaction time" between panic mode and letting it go. Sometimes, I'd allow myself a certain amount of time to catastrophize an issue as much as possible until the outcome became absurd, then I gave myself permission to chill out a bit and let it go.

[mstimc]

It just occurred to me how many times each day we do things that seem prime targets for OCD but we don't really give them a thought.  For example, I'm a woodworker.  When I was in WD and since, I find it therapeutic.  I had an office job, so creating things with my hands gave me a whole different way of being creative.  As you probably know, a woodworker's primary tool is the table saw.  A table saw spins a 10" or 12" blade at about 3,800 RPM and can easily cut off a finger or two if you're careless.  For all my years of unfounded paranoia, I never feared my table saw or other power tools.  I followed all the safety procedures and never did anything careless (and still have all 10 fingers to prove it).  So our OCD can be a selective adversary, choosing to attack our happiness using baseless or unrealistic fears and ignoring others.  To me, it shows that to a large degree, OCD is only as powerful as we let it be.

[ChessieCat]

  

On 12/19/2020 at 6:39 AM, MarieR said:

There is no such thing as an OCD person. Only OCD thoughts. All thoughts come and go. I think the point is that there is some truth to what we resists persists, to some degree. If we keep looking a those thoughts and being afraid of them, they get recognized by the brain as something important because we attach energy to them and they get cycled back a bit. Regardless, over time, they will fade. It's just so much easier on us if we relax into them as much as possible. They are only thoughts and nothing to be afraid of. Bottom line, underneath the thoughts you are mentally healthy and well. Always.

 

[Mia1]

Hi everyone, this is my biggest issue to date coming off Amitriptyline. I had some minor OCD prior to medication, much more intense since coming off meds. I meditate and practice mindfulness, both of which has helped with this issue and my other w/d issues. My biggest struggle was that I knew I wasn’t my thoughts but yet when I had certain thoughts I would still immediately connect with them and feel intense anxiety. What really helped me was retraining my brain. Every time I have a thought that is anxiety producing I say “focus” to myself which is a prompt to bring me back to the present moment. I simply continue to do what I was doing before the thought.  I allow myself to feel the anxiety without reacting to it so it goes away faster and usually doesn’t come back as intense. It takes time and I’m still working on it but it has improved things greatly for me. I also use it for other emotions I’m ruminating on, such as anger.

[mstimc]

22 hours ago, Mia1 said:

allow myself to feel the anxiety without reacting to it so it goes away faster and usually doesn’t come back as intense. It takes time and I’m still working on it but it has improved things greatly for me. I also use it for other emotions I’m ruminating on, such as anger.

This is a great coping tool, Mia, and one I often use for my OCD as well.  Sounds like you're doing a great job!

[SeekingAnswers]

On 12/6/2016 at 7:10 AM, Susanne said:

I take NAC (n-acetyl-cysteine) voor intrusive thoughts (this is my main issue for which I took antidepressants in the past). I've been on it for about 4 weeks and it seems te work. I think I'm going to buy another bottle (maybe the sustained version). I take 1000 mg in the morning on an empty stomach and 500-1000 mg late afternoon.

Hi Susanne, I see that you haven't posted since 2016. I hope you are doing well. I'm wondering how long it took the NAC to get rid of your intrusive thoughts. Thank you. 

[Sharkmouth]

On 2/12/2015 at 3:37 PM, hopefullyhopeful23 said:

Has anyone had Zoloft or seroquel to trigger harm ocd. Or any type of ocd and repitive unwanted thoughts

Yes. Sorry this is 7 years too late though. Hope you’ve been long feeling better!!

[Guest]

Hi,

 

i also have this obsessive thoughts all day since 3 or 4 weeks. I never had that before, 

 

will this go away?

[mstimc]

1 minute ago, Quittingquentiapin said:

Hi,

 

i also have this obsessive thoughts all day since 3 or 4 weeks. I never had that before, 

 

will this go away?

Hi

 

Yes, but you have to have a plan to modify your thinking habits.  Can you identify a trigger for your obsessive thoughts or did they just start creeping up on you?

[Ariel]

On 6/7/2022 at 5:52 AM, Scrountz said:

I've been struggling a lot with this kind of thing too lately. Seems to have kicked into high gear for me over the past week or so, but was also something I experienced occasionally in early withdrawal. Its been helpful to recognize my intrusive thoughts as a kind of neuro-OCD, and reading about some of the more obscure types of OCD has helped me. For instance, I recently learned about some different types of OCD, and they certainly seem to fit the bill for my experience, and also the experience of a lot of other people on this forum based on what I've read.

 

Real Event OCD- In real event OCD, you experience obsessional anxiety and guilt about a real event that occurred in the past that you regretted. Sounds a lot like @Rhiannon's dystalgia to me.

 

Harm OCD- This type of OCD involves intrusive thoughts about harming others or oneself. 

 

Relationship OCD- Relationship OCD sufferers will obsess endlessly about whether their partner is right for them, whether they really love their partner, focus obsessively on their partners flaws, or obsess about whether their partner really loves them.

 

Scrupulosity OCD: This type of OCD manifests as an obsession concern with acting morally proper, and is sometimes associated with religiosity such as obsessing about being sinful and compulsive prayer.

 

Existential OCD: I went through a period back in January where for about a week I would be struck by obsessions about my death and a horrible fear of death. It led me to read Irvin Yalom's Staring at the Sun, a wonderful book on death anxiety. I partly chock this up to my intense interest in Existential Psychotherapy, which preceded withdrawal, but I see others have listed existential intrusive thoughts so I figured it was worth bringing this one up too. Existential OCD manifests as an obsessional preoccupation with death, meaninglessness and isolation etc. 

 

I know for me, when I get struck with intrusive thoughts, my compulsion is to ruminate about them, analyze them and question whether they're real or reflect something real about me. Some of my thoughts have been extremely strange and have left me feeling really uneasy for hours or days. It was helpful to learn that things like ruminating, checking, confessing and researching are all compulsive behaviors that may provide temporary relief but ultimately make OCD worse. Anything you do that assumes that the thoughts that you're having pose a real danger only serves to reinforce the anxiety. 

 

The best thing we can do is disidentify from it all. Obstinately refusing to believe these thoughts are real, and reminding yourself that these thoughts are neuro-OCD, and nothing more, can be helpful to cope until the underlying neurology figures itself out. 

 

I think for many of us a certain intolerance for uncertainty and ambiguity underlies a lot of our more conventional, pre-medicine experiences of anxiety. Withdrawal unfortunately takes this up to 11, and we're stuck with awful neuro-Intrusive Thoughts for hours, days or weeks on end. My sense is that while conventional treatment strategies can be helpful, such as thought stopping/substitution techniques and ERP, ultimately if its neuro-OCD, it will resolve on its own. That certainly seems to be my experience, as despite my best attempt to "treat" this new experience, it seems to just come and go as it pleases.

 

For what its worth, despite my optimistic post, I really hate this too and its been one of the most difficult aspects of withdrawal so far. Its complicated a lot of dimensions of my life and caused high levels of distress which make things very difficult. I cannot wait for it all to go away. 

 

[Roserdl]

I have always fixated on something and now with apathy and lack of connection, I'm fixated on getting better.  As I have very little control over much of this process, it just leads to feelings of futility and despair.  About the most distraction I can get is walking learning tarot cards and reading books on healing which still feeds into the fixation but at least I learn something.  I also feel just connected enough to miss my old life but not connected enough to enjoy it.

 

[Wanttofreemyself]

Anyone have strange compulsions that they do to get rid of the anxiety? Over the years I struggled with repeating things like walking back and forth or driving back and forth, touching things, walking on a certain side of things, changing clothes over again, avoiding cracks on the ground. Its like I'm really indecisive

 

 

[Ariel]

Brassmonkey on dealing with Intrusive Thoughts (IT)

 

On 3/21/2022 at 8:26 PM, brassmonkey said:

 

Having the Intrusive Thoughts that these drugs produce can be a truly frightening experience. I had them many times a day during the middle years of my taper. The drugs have a way of digging up the most disturbing things in one's subconscious and displaying them over and over again. With such repetition it is easy for a person to start to believe that the thoughts are actually a part of themselves. They are not, they are only manifestations caused by the drugs and reenforced by our paying attention to them. The more we dwell on them the stronger they become, while the less attention they get the weaker they are.

 

Exposure to these drugs can strip away many of our "formed beliefs" and cause us to rethink many things. However, they do not alter our "core beliefs", the things we truly hold dear. They may shake our faith in those core beliefs but can't change them. Those core beliefs are the key to dealing with the Intrusive Thoughts. When an IT occurs many peoples first reaction is "OMG what am I thinking, that horrible. I must really be a bad person". That reaction gives the IT more of a hold over them and makes it more powerful the next time it happens. Changing our reaction to the IT is how we regain control.

 

When an IT happens, it is best not to react to it. Instead, take a few minutes to step back and look at the thought. Analyse it and see how it actually fits with your core beliefs. If it doesn't fit, then it is a false thought, and you need to react accordingly. "That's not me and you know it" is a good reply, say it directly to the thought and repeat it again and again every time that thought appears. After doing that a number of times, the reaction is changed to "you again, we've been through this before, now just go away". At this point you "change the channel", think about other things and go on with your day.

 

It takes a bit of practice, but over time this technique can be quite helpful for cutting down on the amount and severity of ITs.

 

 

Original comment here 

[Wanttofreemyself]

Intrusive thoughts led to my anxiety wrecking me and led me to taking antidepressants all the way back then

[mstimc]

Thank you for posting Brassmonkey's message, @Ariel.  I deal with OCD and yes, an effective coping tool is to take a moment and assess your thoughts and feelings, and remind yourself they are just thoughts.  When you're hit by horrible thoughts, use the phrase "I'm doing what I came here to do" to get back on track.  If you're using a knife in the kitchen and have thoughts of harming yourself or others, tell yourself, "I came in here to slice an apple and that's what I'm going to do. Then I'm going to wash the knife and out it away.  These thoughts of harm are just my brain misfiring and I they don't have the power to stop me from doing what I came to do."  Its surprisingly effective!

[Wanttofreemyself]

Thank you @mstimc for that post. Ever since my withdrawal symptoms kicked in and having my anxiety hitting me, it's harder to control my compulsions 

[Ariel]

WD anxiety, a.k.a. neuro-anxiety, is different from normal anxiety. 

 

We mustn't let ourselves be discouraged if our usual non-drug coping techniques and run-of-the-mill CBT-style tactics don't make a dent. 

Sometimes the best strategies for WD anxiety are distract, acknowledge-accept-float (AAF), distract some more. 

 

It's very important not to beat ourselves up for "failing" to get a handle on WD anxiety, because it may not be manageable in the same way that garden-variety anxiety is. This is not to say we shouldn't practice coping skills, just that they may not be effective in the ways we're used to. We mustn't spiral into self-blame and other neuro-self-recrimination as a result. 

 

And, as always, let us be gentle with ourselves. 

 

SunnyRainyDays has written a brilliant description of the experience of WD anxiety, sharing their post here: 

19 hours ago, SunnyRainyDays said:

Normally reassuring and challenging the thoughts with solid proof and facts makes my anxiety go away, but not this one - withdrawal anxiety won’t go away no matter what I do - I just have to sit with it.

 

The neuro-anxiety puts me 24/7 in a flight-or-fight mode. My anxious brain now interprets every single thought and action as “danger”.

I daydream for one minute:

You must have maladaptive daydreaming.

My mind wanders for a few seconds while doing a hour long task:

You must have ADHD

I want to play a video game that has a few drops of blood:

Don’t play it, it will make you violent

I scratch my skin because it itches:

You might go ill and scratch your skin bloody to excess

And so on and on. There aren’t even the “what if you have …” questions that anxiety normally does, but it’s straight out “You (must) have …”

Today I was afraid to leave my house for no reason. The fears come and go as they wish, one day I’ll have them and on another I don’t.

The combination with other neuro emotions that appear from time to time like random hostility out of nowhere make it worse.

 

Weird though that it is afraid of every mental problem but anxiety disorders - if it would be then it would practically eliminate itself by avoiding worrying. But it’d rather be scared of daydreaming, logically. Why is it scared most of daydreaming??? Probably because it’s so common and human that it’s unavoidable, and anxiety hates unavoidable things…

 

I tried reassuring, showing proof that the thought is impossible and stupid, but no matter what I do it won’t even decrease a bit. (I researched the topics my mind is afraid of and it didn’t help - it’s like talking to a moron. It holds to its belief no matter what. I compared the “mental disorders” to myself and even though I fit none my anxiety still insists I probably have it. I even took the official test for Maladaptive daydreaming which you need a score of 40+ points to even be considered a MDer, my score was 17,5, not even the half of it, but my anxious mind doesn’t care and won’t shut up. Each time my mind wanders off my anxiety flares up. Same with every topic. Can’t concentrate once in a while? Danger, very, very bad.) Everything that I do is accompanied by extreme judgement from my anxious mind.

Pity my anxious brain doesn’t notice that most of the problems come from the anxiety itself.

 

All I can do for now is to ignore or distract myself and let it pass along with the withdrawal. Mostly it makes me avoid and not do the things that flare it up, this time facing fears is useless as it leaves me in even more distress.

Yup, withdrawal anxiety is something completely else than normal anxiety and now I know that.

 

[Wanttofreemyself]

@Ariel thank you for that post. My ocd has been ramping up again now that I lowered my dose, I seem to be more sensitive to the intrusive thoughts and my fight back against my compulsions. The anxiety made me wake up at 2 in the morning with a anxiety attack but I rode the wave and felt better but my sleep got messed up

 

I'm wondering if this is withdrawal?

[SunnyRainyDays]

@Wanttofreemyself

To me it seems most likely to be withdrawal, as it started appearing after you lowered your dose - especially if you never had it this bad before.

WD can do a lot of things, from psychosis imitations to everything else.

Doctors will tell you it’s a relapse to put you on more drugs, but relapse actually needs longer to happen (my anxiety needed more than a half year to reappear after stopping effoxor).

Every study you see about rapid relapse after withdrawing antidepressants (or even antipsychotics, or most famous benzodiazepines) is actually withdrawal. There are many articles that explain ex. what distinguishes WD Depression and relapse depression (the later happens gradually over a longer time period).

 

WD worsens your condition at first, that’s why the first weeks or months are mostly the hardest - imagine your brain nerves as a thin river, and when you take the drugs it expands the width of the river, but stops water from flowing (the condition) - when you lower or stop the drug the river is left wider than it was before, more water (“anxiety”) flows through and that happens till the river reverses back to its previous thin state.

Or imagine a person that suddenly lost all their emotions (condition), and one day they all come back at once. Obviously they’re going to be overwhelmed!

In a more professional way: your brain has become for now more sensitive to stress, anxiety, etc.

 

Anxiety also won’t let you sleep, I have the same problem with neuro-anxiety. A brain that won’t calm down won’t let you sleep. You could try a bit of melatonine and see if it helps.

[Wanttofreemyself]

@SunnyRainyDays thank you for your reply. Yes it's frustrating, i still have some anxiety.  It's been 5 weeks but I still didn't completely stabilize yet. Still got some symptoms like loss of appetite, nausea, anhedonia, low libido

[Erin9]

On 7/6/2022 at 6:32 PM, Ariel said:

WD anxiety, a.k.a. neuro-anxiety, is different from normal anxiety. 

 

We mustn't let ourselves be discouraged if our usual non-drug coping techniques and run-of-the-mill CBT-style tactics don't make a dent. 

Sometimes the best strategies for WD anxiety are distract, acknowledge-accept-float (AAF), distract some more. 

 

It's very important not to beat ourselves up for "failing" to get a handle on WD anxiety, because it may not be manageable in the same way that garden-variety anxiety is. This is not to say we shouldn't practice coping skills, just that they may not be effective in the ways we're used to. We mustn't spiral into self-blame and other neuro-self-recrimination as a result. 

 

And, as always, let us be gentle with ourselves. 

 

 

This has been really helpful to remember. I was prone to some OCD habits/compulsions before withdrawal, but since my medication was altered I've had it so much worse. The thoughts that cycle round my head just don't stop, and are very difficult to combat with rational thoughts or logic. It makes sense that this may be neuro-anxiety, because after 20 odd years of dealing with regular anxiety I suddenly feel like I'm in new territory, and completely on the back foot... 

[Ariel]

@Erin9

 

23 hours ago, Erin9 said:

This has been really helpful to remember. I was prone to some OCD habits/compulsions before withdrawal, but since my medication was altered I've had it so much worse. The thoughts that cycle round my head just don't stop, and are very difficult to combat with rational thoughts or logic. It makes sense that this may be neuro-anxiety, because after 20 odd years of dealing with regular anxiety I suddenly feel like I'm in new territory, and completely on the back foot... 

 

I hear you. 

It can be so very difficult. 

 

It helps me to remember (I repeat this to myself again and again): this is NOT normal anxiety; neuro-anxiety is NOT regular, garden variety anxiety; this is NOT me, it's WD. 

 

As someone who had spent decades in therapy learning and mastering coping techniques and life skills, I used to take a certain pride in my carefully, painstakingly built-up toolkit. It was such a blow, and quite disorienting, to find that suddenly, in WD, when I needed my self-management strategies more than ever before, I was seemingly unable to implement the resources I'd spent my life developing. It still feels absurd sometimes. 

 

I promise you, it's not you, it's WD. If you find your non-drug coping techniques inadequate and your pre-WD toolkit coming up short, it's not because you are failing or incompetent. It's because WD and neuro-emotions and thought symptoms are a whole different beast. Underneath all that infernal WD noise you are still you, you still know what you know, you have the skills you once had. They are intact and will remain with you. It's just that in the worst of WD these resources may be either inaccessible or inadmissible or both, because you are up against adverse physiological, biochemical circumstances of iatrogenic bodily harm; this injury does not respond to normal interventions in normal ways because none of this situation is normal.  

 

Please, as much as possible, be kind to yourself. Don't beat yourself up about it. Treat yourself gently, tenderly. Practice patience and acceptance. And when(ever) you have to, if/when things feel unbearable, just try to get through moment by moment, hour by hour, one foot in front of the other, one step at a time, one day at a time ...

You may be in new territory, and on the back foot -- just keep walking. It's like the quote:

If you're going through hell keep going.

 

The only way out is through and you will make it through!

This is temporary. It will pass. It gets better. 

 

In solidarity and support,

A.

[conkaia]

On 7/17/2022 at 11:25 AM, Ariel said:

It helps me to remember (I repeat this to myself again and again): this is NOT normal anxiety; neuro-anxiety is NOT regular, garden variety anxiety; this is NOT me, it's WD. 

 

As someone who had spent decades in therapy learning and mastering coping techniques and life skills, I used to take a certain pride in my carefully, painstakingly built-up toolkit. It was such a blow, and quite disorienting, to find that suddenly, in WD, when I needed my self-management strategies more than ever before, I was seemingly unable to implement the resources I'd spent my life developing. It still feels absurd sometimes. 

 

I promise you, it's not you, it's WD. If you find your non-drug coping techniques inadequate and your pre-WD toolkit coming up short, it's not because you are failing or incompetent. It's because WD and neuro-emotions and thought symptoms are a whole different beast. Underneath all that infernal WD noise you are still you, you still know what you know, you have the skills you once had. They are intact and will remain with you. It's just that in the worst of WD these resources may be either inaccessible or inadmissible or both, because you are up against adverse physiological, biochemical circumstances of iatrogenic bodily harm; this injury does not respond to normal interventions in normal ways because none of this situation is normal.  

 

Please, as much as possible, be kind to yourself. Don't beat yourself up about it. Treat yourself gently, tenderly. Practice patience and acceptance. And when(ever) you have to, if/when things feel unbearable, just try to get through moment by moment, hour by hour, one foot in front of the other, one step at a time, one day at a time ...

You may be in new territory, and on the back foot -- just keep walking. It's like the quote:

If you're going through hell keep going.

 

The only way out is through and you will make it through!

This is temporary. It will pass. It gets better. 

 

I can totally identify with you.  I needed to read this right now as I'm really struggling to manage intrusive thoughts and ruminations.  Thank you.

[Onmyway]

I just came upon this excellent link that talks about reassurance seeking and breaks it down. The authors then suggest steps to stop the cycle. Really insightful. 

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/living-sticky-mind/201912/when-reassurance-seeking-becomes-compulsive

[Dreamer0]

@Onmyway Thank you for posting this excellent article! Very helpful 

[Flowers4992]

Hello, 

 

In the post it says if the symptoms of ocd are having a big impact on your life perhaps your goal should be to be on the lowest effective dose possible.

But I am already at 25 mg setraline and that is a low dose and I still get side affects, and I don’t really want to be on the medication at all because I just feel like it affects my bodies normal functioning. 
But the ocd symptoms did have a big impact on my life so I don’t know what to do. 

[Flowers4992]

Hello,

 

Does anybody know of any podcasts, videos, people which discuss ocd without treatment of medication and are aware of all the issues and myths about medication? 
 

thanks 

[Onmyway]

Hi @Flowers4992

pls have a look here: https://drmichaeljgreenberg.com/

 

[mstimc]

17 hours ago, Flowers4992 said:

Hello,

 

Does anybody know of any podcasts, videos, people which discuss ocd without treatment of medication and are aware of all the issues and myths about medication? 
 

thanks 

This is a very helpful book with exercises to help with OCD

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XGRB72W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_o00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[peaceandlove]