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Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol or calcitriol)

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wulfgar

Vitamin D is a very interesting supplement! I am an proponent of it because i believe it has helped me tremendously. Still, there is some strange things going on for some when they begin supplementing Vitamin D. More anxiety and some people sleep get worse.

I also had reactions to Vitamin D when i first started supplementing (i was deficient). Had to start low and increase slowly. Also had a bad reaction to one brand, causing severe anxiety and palpitations.

 

There is a big problem with Vitamin D research. There is an enormous amount of old and bad papers/studies. Many meta analysis's even today is based on these bad old studies. Why were the old studies bad then? There are several factors. For one, they used only a tiny amount of vitamin D. Usually 300-400 IU. We know today, that 300-400 IU does not raise the active metabolite of vitamin D in non deficient people at all. Another is that the studies are constructed in the same manner as ordinary drug studies. Vitamin D is a nutrient that we already get so the the benefit from vitamin D does not follow the same pattern as drugs. It has a S-shaped effect curve so to evaluate any effects of the drug you need to supplement each trial participant for a specific blood serum level, not dose. All these papers needs to be discarded, but they are sadly not. This is why you can find so much opposing facts on vitamin D. All good recent studies shows tremendous benefits from having an adequate vitamin D level. 

 

Why can vitamin D cause anxiety and/or sleep problems when science states that it actually is supposed to be helpful with anxiety and sleep? It is my belief that the problem lies with the form of vitamin D we are supplementing and that out bodies adapts somewhat to low vitamin D levels. Almost all vitamin D supplements contains vitamin D3. The same substance that we produce in our skin when we are hit by UVB rays. Vitamin D that we eat from natural sources like fatty fish, reindeer, elk, mackerel etc is actually not Vitamin D3 but 25-OH-D. When we eat Vitamin D3 it must be absorbed by out intestines and converted by our liver to 25-OH-D. This absorption/conversion is probably what is causing the anxiety and sleep problems. The vitamin D3 created in our skin is also converted to 25-OH-D by our liver, but this is a slow process over 24 hours as out skin releases the D3 slowly after sun exposure and our intestines is not involved. I have not found a single report on people getting anxiety or insomnia from eating fatty fish or moderate sun exposure.

Vitamin D acts as a hormone and we have neural receptors for it. A body adapted to Vitamin D deficiency might get a big neural reaction from initial supplementation of vitamin D3.

 

My tips for getting vitamin D:

- Sunbathe when the sun is above 35 degrees for 15 minutes on each side and expose as much skin as possible. Like reptilians and other animals do!

- If you need supplementing D3, try taking it in the morning with breakfast.

- Start low dose and increase.

- If you have an reaction, try a different brand.

- Try a bit of cod liver oil. It is 25-OH-D, not D3.

- Eat fatty fish.

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Altostrata

Thank you for those excellent suggestions, wulfgar.

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Altostrata

How much vitamin D3 supplementation is too much?

 

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/am-i-getting-too-much-vitamin-d/

 

A blood test to measure your 25(OH)D levels can tell you whether you have too high of vitamin D levels. If your 25(OH)D levels are above 150 ng/ml this is considered potentially toxic and potentially harmful to your health. You know if your 25(OH)D levels are toxic by a blood test to measure calcium. If calcium is high and 25(OH)D is high, then you are getting too much vitamin D.

 

Very high levels of 25(OH)D can develop if you:

  • take more than 10,000 IU/day (but not equal to) everyday for 3 months or more. However, vitamin D toxicity is more likely to develop if you take 40,000 IU/day everyday for 3 months or more.
  • take more than 300,000 IU in a 24 hour period.

If you have taken this much vitamin D, seek medical attention. Your health providers will get your calcium and 25(OH)D levels tested.

The current recommended daily allowances for vitamin D set by the Food and Nutrition Board are conservative, so you don’t need to feel worried about toxicity if you take more than their recommended daily allowance....

 

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MissTrish

I just read Wulfgar's post above on Vitamin D and am so glad he wrote it!

 

I decided I needed to supplement my Vit D levels after having a lot of pain and anxiety over the past few days.  I took one 400 iu capsule on Saturday.  Within a couple of hours I starting feeling really good!  Calm, evened out, and I slept  very well - I'd even say normally.  So yesterday morning I took another one.  Had an incredible sense of well-being; though - maybe this is the answer to everything!  Probably not, but hope springs eternal.

 

By nighttime last night I had begun to get jittery.  I took my nightly dose of mirtazapine and felt sleepy, but when I hit the pillow, sleep went away and I felt like I could get up and put in a full day's work last night.  I was so wired.  I finally took a mega-dose (for me, 1.5 mg, haha) of melatonin and eventually went to sleep.

I'm so disappointed.  And surprised, because in the past when I took Vit D, I felt sluggish and surly.  

 

Maybe Wulfgar is right - my body is so used to its current level of D that supplementing triggered a huge reaction.

Or I'm just so totally de-stabilized that anything will trigger a reaction for me.  That's kinda scary.  No, it's a lot scary.

 

I do take 1000 mg Carlson's salmon oil capsules daily; hopefully there is enough D in those.  I do feel better when I can get out in the sunshine, but that won't happen for a while, until spring really kicks in.

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btdt

I just read Wulfgar's post above on Vitamin D and am so glad he wrote it!

 

I decided I needed to supplement my Vit D levels after having a lot of pain and anxiety over the past few days.  I took one 400 iu capsule on Saturday.  Within a couple of hours I starting feeling really good!  Calm, evened out, and I slept  very well - I'd even say normally.  So yesterday morning I took another one.  Had an incredible sense of well-being; though - maybe this is the answer to everything!  Probably not, but hope springs eternal.

 

By nighttime last night I had begun to get jittery.  I took my nightly dose of mirtazapine and felt sleepy, but when I hit the pillow, sleep went away and I felt like I could get up and put in a full day's work last night.  I was so wired.  I finally took a mega-dose (for me, 1.5 mg, haha) of melatonin and eventually went to sleep.

I'm so disappointed.  And surprised, because in the past when I took Vit D, I felt sluggish and surly.  

 

Maybe Wulfgar is right - my body is so used to its current level of D that supplementing triggered a huge reaction.

Or I'm just so totally de-stabilized that anything will trigger a reaction for me.  That's kinda scary.  No, it's a lot scary.

 

I do take 1000 mg Carlson's salmon oil capsules daily; hopefully there is enough D in those.  I do feel better when I can get out in the sunshine, but that won't happen for a while, until spring really kicks in.

If you have not had your D level tested it is hard to know if the salmon oil is enough maybe it is. 

 

I react to D too finally just gave up on it... 

 

found this bit about probiotics increasing D  may interest you 

at last check last fall my d was still low but better than it was... a bit

 

15.1. Vitamin D

 

Serum Vitamin D has been noted to increase when 2.9x109 CFU of the strain of L. reuteri known as NCIMB 30242 was consumed twice daily over the course of 13 weeks by hypercholesterolemic adults.[21] Over the course of this trial, there was a slight decrease in vitamin D levels noted in the placebo arm, while there was a 25.5% increase noted with NCIMB 30242, increasing serum 25-dihydroxyvitamin D from 67.91nM to 82.64nM with no influence on other measured vitamins in serum (β-carotene or Vitamin E).[21]

 

http://examine.com/s...cillus reuteri/

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MissTrish

Thanks btdt - I had D my levels tested about five years ago when I saw a rheumatologist and they were almost depleted.  At that time I was taking cymbalta and remeron, and was able to tolerate the prescription mega-doses.  I haven't had them tested recently.

 

 I've about stopped having anything tested because of my inability to tolerate supplements, drugs, etc. (including probiotics, sadly, particularly L. reuteri - they constipate me terribly) that might help whatever the test results suggest is wrong.

 

I'm sorry others here have these problems but glad that if you do, you share it here.  It helps to know I am not alone.

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shamaan

I started taking vitamin D some time ago , because blood tests showed i was deficient. I remember i had to take very small amounts in the beginning , because of strong (bad) reaction to it. Now i can take a whole tablet without too much trouble. I take it daily for almost two monts now. But the weird thing is when i do not take the supplement , the next day i have some discontinuation symptoms , like zaps,.. that i normally don't have.

 

Its like when i was still on a ssri , and missed a daily dose , the next day symptoms.

 

 

So i was wondering if i can't miss a dose anymore, without having some discontinuation symptoms.

 

Does someone had a similar experience with supplements?

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Martin

Some research shows that low levels of vitamin D causes depression. I have to wonder if there's a link between serotonin creation in the brain and vitamin D - but that is just my hypothesis. 

 

If my hypothesis is correct, then you'd have higher withdrawal symptoms when you dont take vitamin D because withdrawal comes from the brain being used to a higher amount of serotonin than normal. 

 

This would be why many people need to be careful of supplements, because many many many supplements has some interaction with serotonin, however I dont think it wise to stop taking stuff like vitamin D. 

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Altostrata

Vitamin D is a prohormone, it provides fuel for your body to make other hormones. It's an important nutrient because of this.

 

It sounds like you need your Vitamin D supplement.

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btdt

If anyone is having bad reactions to Vit D like me... please read this it may be the answer to our problem I have not tried it so can't say it is. 

 

http://www.easy-immune-health.com/magnesium-and-vitamin-d.html

 

Take Magnesium and Vitamin D
Together to Avoid Side Effects

Read more: http://www.easy-immune-health.com/magnesium-and-vitamin-d.html#ixzz3ZhbmZRzm

 

I am not sure this is right in my reasoning but I reason if your reacting to Vit D3 and Magnesium and are low in both... it makes complete sense... but my senses are not all there tonight as I am sleep deprived... so I will leave that open for discussion another time. 

 

Peace

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MissTrish

btdt, this is excellent information.  Scared to try it; don't want to risk my sleep, lol.  Have you tried this yet?

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btdt

No for the same reason as you and for me it would be a double whammy if it did not work as I react to both mag and D3... I have some other things going on that make this a bad time to be playing with supplements but I am glad you posted here so I did not forget about it.  Hopefully I will recall when I have a better stretch of life where I feel ok to attempt it. 

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Futurerecovery

Hello, my Vitamin D3 is only at 5 ng/ml instead of 11-43. I got PSSD + other symptoms in January. I took a SSRI for only a few days. Weeks before I had for a few days severe withdrawal symptoms from St John's Wort .

Due to taking very much Vitamin D until(!) I got PSSD, I still had a value of 34.4 instead of 30-50 (other laboratory) in February.

 

How much should I take? Is 500 units daily too dangerous? I am 23 years old.

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Altostrata

Please read this topic from the beginning.

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

In case this has not been mentioned in this topic, this is a great site for information on Vit D.

 

How do I get the vitamin D my body needs?

 

I really learned a lot! In the article I was able to determine that with my skin type (IV) I need only expose my back (greatest skin surface area of the body) for 15 minutes in summer and 30 minutes in winter to get my body's daily supply of D.

 

So I am putting my halter top on, getting on my bike and riding to the marina when it gets to be about 11 am. A half hour ride and I am doing it without wearing sunglasses so I can get the benefit of light therapy. Vitamins, ltght therapy and exercise all are said to combat depression.

 

Funny thing is, I don't feel depressed so I can't tell if it is working. So I'll consider it prophyllaxis.

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Sometimes I wish I had never given up mod status! I spelled 'prophylaxis' wrong, that will pinch me every time I see it (not too CDO, right?)

 

In the above article on D3 it mentions taking it sublingually for better absorption. In case anyone needs help figuring it out, D3 is an oil and won't be found in a normal subling tab. What you do is puncture the gelatin capsule it comes in with a safety pin and squeeze the contents under your tongue. You can then chew the capsule or swallow it with water. Be sure to lick your fingers, you want to get all of the vitamin you can, especially if you are low. The capsules are tiny and the gelatin will take hours to open up if you just pop it under your tongue whole.

 

https://www.grc.com/health/Vitamin-D.htmhas a good overview of vitamin D research. Especially valuable is the information about getting your levels tested yourself from the Life Extension Foundation http://www.lef.org/vitamins-supplements/ItemLC081950/Vitamin-D-25-Hydroxy-Blood-Test if your levels are low or you've been told or given a high dose capsule to take and you are worried about toxicity or want to see if your levels are coming up without having to do a doctors visit all the time.

 

What I did not understand all my life is that the body needs vit D DAILY and if you aren't a person who goes outside much (a failing of a lot of computer nerds) you have to supplement. As I think back over my life and the bouts of depression I have had, they were times in my life I stopped going outdoors much for some reason. The last time was after I really started getting into computers and spent all my time on them, indoors of course, because laptops and tablets are hard to use in the sun.

 

I am really starting to believe that poor lifestyle choices (staying indoors too much, staring at blue light emitting screens all day, no exercise, decreasing interactions with live humans face to face) are really the things that start the depression/medication trap.

 

So prophylaxis it is. Sunlight is far better than D3 capsules, your body can't OD on sunlight (but sunscreen inhibits the production of it so you need 15 to 30 min outside without it to get your daily dose). I have added a 2000 IU capsule SL to my diet daily just in case and will keep in the back of my mind to supplement higher if I have spent too much time in the house between the hours of 10a and 2p.

 

https://www.grc.com/health/Vitamin-D.htm is really a great source of information.

 

And a note of caution: using cod liver oil as a D source is not recommended, the levels you get aren't high enough and if you increase the dose you run into trouble with Vit A toxicity. The toxic level for that vitamin is a lot lower than that of D

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laineyk

great info...I have been sunbathing all summer and pray that my level will have gone up it was just 32 will have it rechecked in 1 month

 

when I take the supplement my anxiety shoots up...I kept thinking it was my imagination but I read here may not be

 

I take 400mgs magnesium already

 

Do not know what I will do once winter hits and there is no way getting Vit D from the sun here where I live. maybe 2000IU is better then no IUS?

 

5000IU make me jumpy

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Altostrata

Take the lower amount, even 500IU vitamin D.

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laineyk

thanks I will try and get some soon

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andy013

Recently I read a paper which found that vitamin D actually increases serotonin in the brain. Here it is if you are interested : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24558199

 

I actually have a very negative reaction if I take an oral vitamin D supplement, even at low doses. However when I eat salmon, go out in the sun or use a vitamin D cream that absorbs through the skin then I don't get the negative reaction and I can get some benefits from it. I have actually became hypersexual after eating salmon! I'd be interested to know if anyone else has had similar experiences.

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

 

Am on the edge of my chair with this. Some really interesting stuff once you get past the too-technical brain twisting verbiage in the beginning.

 

Andy, what is your Vit D level as measured by a recent blood test? And is that why you are attempting to supplement it?

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Altostrata

Any study that is based on measuring serotonin levels in the brain is questionable. Serotonin levels cannot be measured within a live brain unless a hole is drilled into it (which probably would cause a great deal of disturbance throughout the brain chemistry) and are invalid measured in dead brains, too.

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

I cannot resist this: so then the serotonin falls out the hole?

 

What I found interesting about the study was not what was said about serotonin (I am such a well-informed SA-er that my mind automatically skips over anything relating to serotonin) but the stuff about the prevalence of autism as it relates to light/dark skinned people, males/females and something I had never heard of before: maternal antibodies attacking the fetal brain as evidenced in this statement:

 

 

It has been demonstrated that maternal autoantibodies target the fetal brain during pregnancy, thus playing a critical role in the pathology of autism (130, 132, 133). However, no mechanism has been identified for this autoimmune dysregulation.

 

What????

 

I am far too un-versed in this to be able to piece together if this is valid science or not and if the basis for the statements made in the article are accurate. But the piecing together of low vitamin D levels with increasing incidence of autism is just another intriguing bit of info on how science may be killing us. The use of sunscreen is so drilled into our heads that who dares risk life and limb going into the sun without it? But what if its chronic use leads to more depression, autism and a host of as yet undiscovered links to other bad things I would rather not get?

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andy013

Any study that is based on measuring serotonin levels in the brain is questionable. Serotonin levels cannot be measured within a live brain unless a hole is drilled into it (which probably would cause a great deal of disturbance throughout the brain chemistry) and are invalid measured in dead brains, too.

 

They didn't measure serotonin in the brain. They showed that vitamin D causes increased gene expression of tryptophan hydroxylase which is the enzyme that converts tryptophan into 5-htp. This is the rate limiting step in the conversion of tryptophan to serotonin. You have 2 of these enzymes; one in the gut and one in the brain. Vitamin D actually decreases expression of it in your gut but increases it in the brain. This causes more tryptophan to be able to get into your brain and be turned into serotonin.

 

cymbaltawithdrawl, my vitamin D is pretty low, 10ng/ml. However because I get some extreme reactions to it I need to take it slow.

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

I found this article long ago and I think I even posted it in this topic. What do you think?

 

http://gettingstronger.org/2012/11/why-i-dont-take-vitamin-d-supplements/

 

Without doing more research right now the only thing I can think of that shows up when your vit D is too low is rickets, right? But do you still get rickets after your bones are formed (ie, as an adult?) Also, the link to depression. Are you thinking that if you get your vitamin D levels up you will feel better? At this point I must ask that you fill out a signature so I can tell where you are coming from. Yours is missing and I don't go hunting up intro topics to get the information. If you don't wish to fill one out, that's ok. You get a lot more informed help if you have one.

 

If you read the above article, does it strike you that your body may be keeping your Vitamin D levels low for an undiscovered reason and that you are actually healthy at that level or are you exhibiting signs of illness?

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Altostrata

In a normally functioning brain, one cannot "increase" serotonin levels without triggering natural compensatory mechanisms to keep the serotonin levels more or less constant. "Increasing" serotonin has no net benefit.

 

This is an example of research that is done on the assumption that serotonin is a key brain hormone, when it is only one of dozens.

 

Vitamin D is a pro-hormone that affects many different hormonal systems in the body.

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Tilly

Hi All,

 

I have 5000iu softgels. Is it possible to split these and dilute into vegetable oil or another suspension to build up my dose gradually while I test my tolerance to them?

 

My mood is negatively impacted by the lack of daylight hours in winter. I'm hoping that vitamin D3 can help with this.

 

All feedback gratefully received. Thank you!

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manymoretodays

You can get a small syringe and needle from a vet if you have a regular one........and then pull a little out at a time. 

 

Read the whole thread though.......there may be other ideas too.  That's what mine is, 5000iu's.  Since it is summertime here I am mostly going for the sun exposure right now.  My level has always been fine when checked.

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Tilly

You can get a small syringe and needle from a vet if you have a regular one........and then pull a little out at a time. 

 

Read the whole thread though.......there may be other ideas too.  That's what mine is, 5000iu's.  Since it is summertime here I am mostly going for the sun exposure right now.  My level has always been fine when checked.

Thank you for the feedback. Really helpful. One of my cats will be visiting the vet in the next week or so. Great timing!

 

I read through the whole thread. This seems to be the best solution.

 

I feel that I need to top up my vitamin D3 as I am agoraphobic and living in the not so sunny UK, sunlight is hard to come by most times ;) I do sit in the sun when it shows up. However this has been a very patchy, overcast summer. Also, my skin is olive, so I do not absorb as much vitamin D as quickly from what I understand.

 

I used to do a lot of free weights to prevent bone loss, but have been unable to in recent years. I feel that this vitamin will aid my bone health as well as my mood during the winter.

 

Thank you so much for replying. I appreciate it.

 

Tilly x

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manymoretodays

I will be experimenting too.  The vet syringe I have is 1 ml. with graduated markings up to that point and with a fairly large opening.  I think the tiny diabetic needles would probably not be adequate to suck up any thicker type oil.

 

So now I am thinking to just pin prick on one side of my capsules and draw it up directly.  We'll see.......it could result in a bit of wastage and inaccuracy too.

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Petunia

Since I started supplementing with D3 about 2 months ago, I've noticed an improvement in temperature dysregulation, adrenaline surges, intensity of cortisol mornings and mood.

 

I want to build up to 5000IU. I bought a liquid brand by Thorne, so increasing the dose would be easier. One drop equals 500IU. So far I'm up to 2000IU. You can buy this from iHerb or directly from Thorne online.

 

Ideally, I would be getting my D from the sun, but I'm still dealing with sensitivity issues, daytime agoraphobia, apathy, demotivation and its winter here.

 

Its nice to be feeling a bit more comfortable physically, and I'm thinking that increasing my vitamin D intake might be contributing to that.

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Tilly

I will be experimenting too.  The vet syringe I have is 1 ml. with graduated markings up to that point and with a fairly large opening.  I think the tiny diabetic needles would probably not be adequate to suck up any thicker type oil.

 

So now I am thinking to just pin prick on one side of my capsules and draw it up directly.  We'll see.......it could result in a bit of wastage and inaccuracy too.

Good luck! Keep us updated on progress. T x

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Tilly

Since I started supplementing with D3 about 2 months ago, I've noticed an improvement in temperature dysregulation, adrenaline surges, intensity of cortisol mornings and mood.

 

I want to build up to 5000IU. I bought a liquid brand by Thorne, so increasing the dose would be easier. One drop equals 500IU. So far I'm up to 2000IU. You can buy this from iHerb or directly from Thorne online.

 

Ideally, I would be getting my D from the sun, but I'm still dealing with sensitivity issues, daytime agoraphobia, apathy, demotivation and its winter here.

 

Its nice to be feeling a bit more comfortable physically, and I'm thinking that increasing my vitamin D intake might be contributing to that.

Thank you for your feedback, Petunia.

 

I share many of your issues including temperature dysregulation, adrenaline surges and difficulties accessing sunlight.

 

Your feedback has given me hope for the gloomy UK winter which is fast approaching.

 

I hope that you see continued improvement. Please do update progress as / when you are able.

 

Tilly x

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Altostrata

Even though I take a 5000IU gelcap of vitamin D3 every day, my vitamin D levels are always near the bottom of the scale in blood tests. If it's sunny, I go out covered in sunscreen. So I have a hard time getting enough vitamin D.

 

I read that some people might absorb a liquid form better, so I got vitamin D3 drops -- D3 in olive oil, 2000IU per drop.

 

I was unfamiliar with the dispenser, so one morning I inadvertently took 3 drops. I definitely felt a stimulating effect, but it went away in a half-hour or so and I felt pretty good. I was in a good mood all day and slept unusually well.

 

For me, adding liquid D3 to my 5000IU capsule seems to be a successful experiment. I plan to continue to take 2000IU liquid and 5000IU in gelcap form until the gelcaps are used up, then take all m vit D3 dose in liquid form from now on.

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JanCarol

I do not have withdrawal symptoms (important for this thread).

 

My ng/ml at last count was 37.7.  Normal.

 

But in my reading - I am obese, I tend to "cave" (though I get 10 minutes of outdoors minimum per day), I have no thyroid, parathyroids or ovaries, I take vitamin K, magnesium and calcium for medical reasons (co-factors with Vit D).  I may have sleep apnea.  My reading has talked about amounts like in the Holick video - of 10,000 iu / day.  Improvement in skin, cancer risk, mood, etc.  I also was reading Jeff T. Bowles, "The Miraculous Results of Extremely High Doses of Sunshine Vitamin D3: My Experiment With Huge Doses of Vitamin D3 From 25,000 to 50,000 to 100,000 IU a Day Over a One Year Period"  

 

Obviously, I'm not going to go that high, not even Dr. Holick recommends that.  But it did pique my interest.

 

So I have been on 10,000 iu for 3 months, and this month I have bounced it up to 15,000 iu.  This is in gelcap form.  I got a 25(OH)D level done just before the 15,000 started (I haven't gotten it back yet), and will drop it down again at the end of the month.

 

I have noticed improvement in mood, sleep and energy.  I have lost 5 pounds in a month (this is slow, normal progress, nothing spectacular - but - after 2 years of losing no weight is quite welcome).  My skin is not much better (but I'm not sweating in karate classes 2x a week right now), but my histamine reactions seem much more manageable.  My sleep apnea may be marginally better - but I feel apneas coming on in yoga class with relaxation (not just sleep paralysis) so this is still an ongoing issue.

 

I cannot say it is all the Vitamin D, however, there are other factors:  a huge decrease in lithium (also tested at same time as 25(OH)D), sleeping at nighttime instead of half of the day, and having a retired husband around the house all the time (more support, more regular routine).  

 

This is, indeed a medical experiment.  I have not found it to be activating in any way (so - not for people in withdrawal!).  Just a temporary boost in levels to see how it affects my overall wellbeing.

 

I am watching this video about sleep and Vitamin D (and migraines):

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Altostrata

Good to hear, JC. Vit D is important to many body functions.

 

I'm still taking vit D3 sublingually. I found I could chew on a vit D3 gelcap a little and release the oil into my mouth. Mine has no flavor at all. It's a very easy way to take vit D3 sublingually.

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