Jump to content
Brandy

Curcumin or turmeric

Recommended Posts

GardeniaBlossom

I don't know if taking curcumin whilst coming off a SSRI is helpful - i mean is curcumin going to do what my antidepressant has been doing - that is increasing the serotonin in the synapse, thereby affecting receptors upstream - and therefore slowing down the upregulation? what do people think?

 

I tried to take it earlier on about 3 months after a too-fast taper of 6 "meds." I took the supplement for about 4 months but found it exacerbated the symptoms of withdrawal and made my mind more foggy. It also gave me headaches. I didn't find it helpful then in supplement form. I eat a lot of Indian food though and like tumeric as a spice. So, I eat it that way. I also make tea with the root. A friend makes a juice that she mixes with tamarind juice. (I've never tried that, but I'd like to sometime.) It doesn't seem to give me problems when I use it in food.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JanCarol

I put hubby on it when he got his cancer diagnosis.  We either used Puritan's Pride, or Doctor's Best, or VitaCost, depending on price.  All have bio-piperine.  He was taking 8 grams per day, and as hippopotamus noted, it did not affect his cancer at all.  He is now on 3 grams per day, for post stroke cognitive function.

 

After months and months of IBS, I started it too.  It seems to help immensely with joint pain.  It does seem to ease the IBS a bit.  I have not noticed any difference with mood, but because of pain issues, I am afraid to stop taking it.  I take 4 grams per day, plus add it liberally to food & smoothies.

 

So - started it as an anti-cancer agent, then found out about its anti-inflammatory properties, and am just now learning about it's brain / cognitive / neuroplasticity properties.  Pretty versatile spice, eh?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gh0st

As I think it's been noted, Curcumin (Turmeric) has many beneficial properties for WD. 

 

Chronic Stress often leads to a decrease in the mRNA for 5ht1a receptors, Curcumin prevents this decrease, and enhances the cAMP signaling at the 5ht1a receptor (which is heavily implicated in depression and anxiety).

 

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1111/j.1471-4159.2011.07356.x/asset/j.1471-4159.2011.07356.x.pdf?v=1&t=icwb357j&s=145a464251090b1b625d37e3564d45eb08350e77

 

---

I'll attach part of an old post of mine from another forum explaining why I began with Curcumin. I'm on 1800mg now, and have been working up to that over the past 5 weeks. The goals for me are more long-term, but I think I have been having better sexual response since I began.

 

"So, I'm putting my theory to action.

I have decided to start with curcumin in my attempts to repair the secondary messenger system of the 5ht1a by increasing the efficiency of the cAMP system, and by stopping the stress induced decrease of 5ht1a mRNA and decrease in BDNF. 

The following are the aims of my trial of curcumin.

Depression Help:

“which has been used to effectively manage stress and
depression-related disorders in China
. As the active component of
curcuma longa, curcumin possesses many therapeutic properties.”

“Recent studies show that stress-induced damage to hippocampal
neurons may contribute to the phathophysiology of depression.”

"These results suggested that the potent antidepressant property of curcumin might be attributed to its improvement of AC-cAMP pathway"

"curcumin administration (10 and 20 mg/kg, p.o.)
increased hippocampal neurogenesis in chronically stressed rats...Our results further demonstrated that these new cells mature
and become neurons


Reversal of PSSD through increase of 5ht1a mRNA encoding, and improvement of cAMP signaling system.

“In addition, curcumin significantly prevented the stress-induced decrease in 5-HT1A mRNA and
BDNF protein levels in the hippocampal subfields, two molecules
involved in hippocampal neurogenesis
. These results raise the
possibility that increased cell proliferation and neuronal populations
may be a mechanism by which curcumin treatment overcomes the
stress-induced behavioral abnormalities and hippocampal neuronal
damage. Moreover, curcumin treatment, via up-regulation of 5-HT1A
receptors and BDNF, may reverse or protect hippocampal neurons
 from
further damage in response to chronic stress, which may underlie the
therapeutic actions of curcumin.”


"Moreover, curcumin enhanced AC activity and cAMP levels in platelet and various brain regions, and up-regulated mRNA expressions of AC subtypes AC 2, AC 8 and cAMP response element binding protein (CREB) in the hippocampus, cortex and hypothalamus of the CUMS rats"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19302828"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DLB

Been taking bio curcumin for 1.5 years now at 800 mg. per day for other inflammatory problems I have ant to tell you the truth when I stopped a month ago I felt absolutely no difference. I always bought the expensive stuff too. Some people swear by it. I may start taking it again just for the hell of it. Give it a try, it won't hurt you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Vanmichael

I buy fresh tumeric root from the Persian market near my house, I get a huge bag full for like $2.50. I use it in my smoothies and cooking. I honestly think the supplements and other turmeric wonder products are terribly overpriced..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Petunia

Topics merged.

I take this at times, and started taking it again recently for a stiff, sore knee, which then got better within a few days. It doesn't seem to effect withdrawal symptoms one way or the other though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
simack

Seeing curcumin described as a weak MAOI, whats the potential of serotonin syndrome when combined with an ssri/snri? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Petunia

A study was done to find out if Curcumin enhanced the antidepressant effects of escitalopram or venlafaxine. Patients were given 500mg of curcumin along with an antidepressant. None of the subjects complained of any adverse effect during the study.

 

Perhaps if you were to take a high enough dose of curcumin with your antidepressant it might cause serotonin syndrome, but at normal doses it doesn't seem to cause any problems. If you were going to try it, maybe take it apart from your Pristiq just to be safe.

 

But as with all supplements, start with a very small dose and build up slowly to see how it will effect you.

Curcumin as an add-on to antidepressive treatment: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, pilot clinical study.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ddubb

Has anyone had any success using turmeric curcumin in helping curb SSRI withdrawal and mood regulation in general? I've been using 5-htp, but my doctor recommended dose of 600mg per day seems to be too high (going down to 300mg, woke up at 1pm today, napped from 2-530 and I'm still exhausted). I know curcumin is a potent antioxidant and therefore is good for system detox.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bluebalu86

So, to improve bioavailability you have to take Turmeric with some oil/fat and freshly ground pepper? Is that correct? I have regular plain Turmeric in capsules. I want to use it for its neuro regenerating properties. Trying to add supplements that can help my brain heal. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
alwayslookup

That is correct. I recommend drinking "Turemric Golden Milk". I used to drink it for quite some time. It was very yum. :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
westcoast

I've read about saffron but didn't ever try it. The research had me convinced and I'm glad it is working for you. Turmeric too looks like the real deal and it is the one food I know of that is accepted in science as anti-cancer. (My sister, mother, and I have all had cancer, but none of my grandmothers did.) Ginseng I'd been warned about, and I will heed alwayslookup's experience with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
faultandfracture

Can anyone attest to any benefits from taking turmeric? There have been some small scale studies suggesting turmeric as an effective alternative to anti-depressants.

 

Has anyone tried this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Destroyed

I am taking this for memory and believe it helps a little x

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mort81

I believe tumeric could be a wonder spice. I need to try it out. Ive heard its tough to absorb so I am not sure what form to consume it in. Ive tried teas which taste good. I don't think it works right away. It may take a good month or two at a certain dose to feel the effects. I am so optimistic about it because of the success I've had with ginger in relation to my gut.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rachelina

I take half a teaspoon of turmeric paste 3 times a day. I know some people who are way into turmeric and they say the capsules are not worth taking. Instead you make your own paste out of high quality organic turmeric, water, coconut oil and black pepper. Google golden paste and I'm sure you'll find a recipe. Anyway, I'm a total mess so I can't say it's done anything for my mental health, but it has so many benefits for the body that I keep taking it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Karina

My turmeric drink I take up to 7 times a day/Night.
Ad some pepper and coconut oil with it - then it works better

Is super easy to make....

Ingredients
2 liters of water
200 grams of ginger
2 Organic lemons
2 tbsp. eco cane
(possibly . 3-4 cm . turmeric which gives the beautiful color and is very healthy including substance curcumin ) .
Procedure:
Peel the ginger and cut into slices
Cut whole lemons into slices must . Therefore eco - lemons.
Water, ginger, lemon , (possibly . Turmeric ) and sugar is boiled for 45 minutes.
Si and cool . Come then bottled .
Drink 2-4 oz. per day to the anti-inflammatory effect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fresh

I use turmeric and honey paste for a sore throat , but recently read the following.

 

"  Recent studies  have found that a compound in black pepper called piperine makes the cancer-fighting curcumin in turmeric as much as 1,000 times more bioavailable. Without piperine,  bioavailability of turmeric is really low. In a study published in the Breast Cancer Research and Treatment Journal, researchers discovered that curcumin and piperine, when combined, were able to target cancer stem cells.

 

Reduces Pain and Inflammation.  Piperine and Curcumin compounds have been shown to influence more than 700 genes, and it can inhibit both the activity and the synthesis of cyclooxygenase-2 (COX2) and 5-lipooxygenase (5-LOX), as well as other enzymes that have been implicated in inflammation.

 

Natural antidepressant. Active compounds in both turmeric and black pepper have potential anti-depressant effects. These compounds can raise the levels of serotonin and dopamine in the brain and  inhibit monoamine oxidase, an enzyme which is linked to depression if found in the brain in high levels."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
faultandfracture

I wonder if turmeric (curcumin) is contraindicated for people already on meds, such as taking 5-HTP while on an SSRI.

 

Drug interaction checker says to consult pharmacist.

 

Better steer clear of it 'til I'm off... :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Reflex

I've been taking  1800 mg curcumin for about six months. It definitely has helped with arthritis and my mood also seems improved.

Hi

I was really interested in your post about arthritis.

I too am reducing from Prozac. Currently on 6.8 ml.

I have experienced pains in my joints restless legs, lower back pain . This was one of the reasons I initially wanted to get off of ADs as I attributed it to side effects.

 

I have had an investigation of the pain in my hips and been told I have arthritis of the hips and awaiting a hip replacement.

 

Do you think this is yet another aspect of withdrawal. I wouldn't believe it except I saw the X-ray.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sheri755

I'm a little concerned about this comment. I take Curcumin BCM-95 for Spondylolisthesis, otherwise a strong pharma anti inflammatory would be required.

 

"BCM-95 is a 95% extract that has been processed to add the essential oils naturally contained in parts of turmeric to greatly increase the absorption of the curcuminoids. It does this without bioperine. There are several studies showing greatly increased absorption with this form of turmeric extract and, additionally, this is a common form selected and used by clinical researchers because it is known to absorb well and is easy to detect in pharmacokinetic lab draws being conducted in the studies. There are several companies who developed their own patented methods of increasing the bioavailability of the curcuminoids and all of them claim superiority. There is one study, funded and conducted by the owners of BCM-95. I personally favor BCM-95 in this instance because I believe that part of the mechanism that bioperine increases the bioavailability of curcuminoids is by inhibiting hepatic (liver) enzymes that break down various compounds including biologically active constituents in herbs but also pharmaceuticals and toxins. Its very non-discriminatory in it's action in that regard and if you take products with it and then take other herbs or pharmaceuticals, you could potentially affect the absorption of those substances."

 

I'm wondering how far apart from other meds/supplements that Curcumin should be taken if this is true?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Area1255

Put it in your soup with pepper and onion, and habanero - voila! Problem solved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sheri755

Put it in your soup with pepper and onion, and habanero - voila! Problem solved.

But, from what I read on this thread and what I quoted above says that if it contains black pepper or piperine like ingredients, it will cause other meds or supplements to become ineffective.

 

Not a good idea while tapering.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Petunia

There is one study, funded and conducted by the owners of BCM-95. I personally favor BCM-95 in this instance because I believe that part of the mechanism that bioperine increases the bioavailability of curcuminoids is by inhibiting hepatic (liver) enzymes that break down various compounds including biologically active constituents in herbs but also pharmaceuticals and toxins. Its very non-discriminatory in it's action in that regard and if you take products with it and then take other herbs or pharmaceuticals, you could potentially affect the absorption of those substances."

 

 

I don't know if this is true or not, but there are several alternatives to adding black pepper (piperine)

 

https://examine.com/supplements/curcumin/

 

For any systemic purpose (requiring absorption from the intestines), then an oral supplementation of curcumin in the range of 80-500mg would be required assuming an enhancement. Curcumin is poorly absorbed inherently, and one of the following is mandatory:

  • Pairing curcumin with Black Pepper (piperine)

  • Curcumin phytosomes complexed with Phosphatidylcholine (Meriva or BCM-95)

  • Curcumin nanoparticles (THERACURMIN)

  • Water-soluble curcumin (polyvinyl pyrrolidone)

If one of the above enhancements are not used, then too little curcumin will be absorbed and even doses of up to 4,000mg may be wholly inactive (8-16g would only be slightly active).

If using curcumin for intestinal purposes, then absorption from the intestines into the blood is not necessarily required. Due to this, one can simply use Turmeric at the dose of 2-4g daily or take curcumin supplementation without any of the aforementioned enhancements.

 

I've been taking a mixed curcumin/piperine supplement for about a year, not knowing if it was actually helping with anything. I ran out about a month ago, and didn't reorder. But since then I've slowly been feeling worse and certainly having an increase in pain type symptoms. So I just reordered, I'm trying the 'Theracurmin' type this time. Its all quite expensive, not like buying magnesium.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Area1255

 

Put it in your soup with pepper and onion, and habanero - voila! Problem solved.

But, from what I read on this thread and what I quoted above says that if it contains black pepper or piperine like ingredients, it will cause other meds or supplements to become ineffective.

 

Not a good idea while tapering.

 

Nope, piperine/black pepper actually 'enhances' the bioavailability and delivery of other nutrients/drugs.

 

Planta Med. 1998 May;64(4):353-6.
Influence of piperine on the pharmacokinetics of curcumin in animals and human volunteers.
Abstract

The medicinal properties of curcumin obtained from Curcuma longa L. cannot be utilised because of poor bioavailability due to its rapid metabolism in the liver and intestinal wall. In this study, the effect of combining piperine, a known inhibitor of hepatic and intestinal glucuronidation, was evaluated on the bioavailability of curcumin in rats and healthy human volunteers. When curcumin was given alone, in the dose 2 g/kg to rats, moderate serum concentrations were achieved over a period of 4 h. Concomitant administration of piperine 20 mg/kg increased the serum concentration of curcumin for a short period of 1-2 h post drug. Time to maximum was significantly increased (P < 0.02) while elimination half life and clearance significantly decreased (P < 0.02), and the bioavailability was increased by 154%. On the other hand in humans after a dose of 2 g curcumin alone, serum levels were either undetectable or very low. Concomitant administration of piperine 20 mg produced much higher concentrations from 0.25 to 1 h post drug (P < 0.01 at 0.25 and 0.5 h; P < 0.001 at 1 h), the increase in bioavailability was 2000%. The study shows that in the dosages used, piperine enhances the serum concentration, extent of absorption and bioavailability of curcumin in both rats and humans with no adverse effects.

PMID:   9619120   DOI:   10.1055/s-2006-957450
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chuck83

I'd try this plant, for its anti-inflammatory properties. but I heard that some people have had erectile dysfunction by it, this is true or is only a urban lengend?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sheri755

 

There is one study, funded and conducted by the owners of BCM-95. I personally favor BCM-95 in this instance because I believe that part of the mechanism that bioperine increases the bioavailability of curcuminoids is by inhibiting hepatic (liver) enzymes that break down various compounds including biologically active constituents in herbs but also pharmaceuticals and toxins. Its very non-discriminatory in it's action in that regard and if you take products with it and then take other herbs or pharmaceuticals, you could potentially affect the absorption of those substances."

 

 

I don't know if this is true or not, but there are several alternatives to adding black pepper (piperine)

 

 

https://examine.com/supplements/curcumin/

 

 

For any systemic purpose (requiring absorption from the intestines), then an oral supplementation of curcumin in the range of 80-500mg would be required assuming an enhancement. Curcumin is poorly absorbed inherently, and one of the following is mandatory:

  • Pairing curcumin with Black Pepper (piperine)

  • Curcumin phytosomes complexed with Phosphatidylcholine (Meriva or BCM-95)

  • Curcumin nanoparticles (THERACURMIN)

  • Water-soluble curcumin (polyvinyl pyrrolidone)

If one of the above enhancements are not used, then too little curcumin will be absorbed and even doses of up to 4,000mg may be wholly inactive (8-16g would only be slightly active).

If using curcumin for intestinal purposes, then absorption from the intestines into the blood is not necessarily required. Due to this, one can simply use Turmeric at the dose of 2-4g daily or take curcumin supplementation without any of the aforementioned enhancements.

 

I've been taking a mixed curcumin/piperine supplement for about a year, not knowing if it was actually helping with anything. I ran out about a month ago, and didn't reorder. But since then I've slowly been feeling worse and certainly having an increase in pain type symptoms. So I just reordered, I'm trying the 'Theracurmin' type this time. Its all quite expensive, not like buying magnesium.

I'm staying with the BCM-95 form for now. Just don't want to risk the integrity of the 5 beads of Effexor during my taper.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JanCarol

From:

https://www.madinamerica.com/2016/11/study-finds-spice-curcumin-fights-depression/

 

 

 

A new study, published online ahead of print in the Journal of Affective Disorders, finds that the spice curcumin, a derivative of turmeric, may be an effective treatment for depression. The study was a randomized, placebo-controlled trial (the gold standard methodology for medication studies). The researchers found that curcumin was better than a placebo treatment, and those with atypical depression were far more likely to improve.

The use of curcumin appeared especially effective for those with atypical depression. Atypical depression, despite its name, is relatively common (around 40% of MDD cases). The “atypical” moniker refers to its particular features: excessive sleep, weight gain, mood improvement in response to positive events, heavy, immovable feelings in the limbs, and interpersonal rejection sensitivity. Atypical depression is considered to have a more chronic course, with worse outcomes overall, so the potential for a viable treatment with fewer side effects than current medications provides hope for an improved prognosis.

 

Emphasis on minimal side effects.

 

 

 

 However, in 2014, researchers studied curcumin in a head-to-head trial against fluoxetine (Prozac) and found that they both improved depressive symptoms. There was statistically no difference between the effects of Prozac and the effects of curcumin. In addition, the potential benefit of curcumin over current pharmacotherapy treatments is its almost nonexistent side-effect profile.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
UnfoldingSky

I keep hearing about turmeric lately and coincidentally it is apparently helpful for a skin condition I believe I have that caused me fatigue which I think is a huge part of why I got put on AD and diagnosed "depressed".

 

Tonight on a radio show they were talking about turmeric and mentioned that turmeric milk is supposed to help with sleep?  I don't know if anyone mentioned it being helpful for sleep already here, I don't have time to read the full thread, I should be in bed right now...But if anyone tried it for that can you post your experience?

 

Also they are suggesting taking wild turmeric, it's supposedly more effective. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
peng

I was all for taking turmeric.  Went for a fairly wellknown brand here, but had to return it for refund.

 

AM PRONE TO INDIGESTION (took 10mg PPI for decades, but off them for a few months now) SO WOULD ADVISE ANYONE WITH SIMILAR GASTRIC COMPLAINT TO BE WARY.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
UnfoldingSky

Thank you peng for your input. I was just telling someone I know who has arthritis I'd read that they use turmeric for it but as he has some stomach issues will advise him to skip it then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JanCarol

I had stomach issues with turmeric - the key piece is that it's meant to be taken with food, as it needs to be absorbed with fat.  

 

So I moved the turmeric to the times when I can take it with food.  I was getting some esophagus and stomach upset when I took it on an empty stomach.  I also match it to my fish oil, so that there's a little extra oil to help my body absorb the turmeric.

 

Also - this just in from Consumer labs:

 

Turmeric is metabolized in the CYP3A4, so may conflict with a number of drugs, including (but not limited to):  midazolam, fentanyl, lidocaine, cisapride, losartan, fexofenadine, omeprazole, ondansetron.  Sorry I am not naming brand names - but you are responsible for the drugs you take!  More conflicts include blood pressure drugs like:  felodipine, amlodipine, and calcium channel blockers like:  dilitiazem, nicardipine, verapimil.  Also included in this CYP3A4 list is antibiotic rifampin.   There have been no human studies on these conflicts, so use caution and pay attention to your symptoms if you think you have a liver enzyme conflict with turmeric. 

 

Most turmeric is combined with piperine (black pepper) to enhance absorption.  Piperine also utilizes the CYP3A4 enzyme, and may act as an enhancer to (the example given was 20 mg piperine over 10 days was enough to cause an effect)  carbemazepine (anti-seizure) and diclofenac (NSAID).  Piperine may also increase blood levels of drugs metabolized on the CYP1A1 site, which would increase levels of chlorzoxazone (muscle relaxant), theophylline (bronchodilator), rifampin and burforalol (antibiotics).  Also, because of blood thinning effects, piperine should be used with caution for people taking blood thinning medications.

 

While the benefits of turmeric may outweigh the risks of these conflicts - it is up to you to pay attention and ensure that you are not getting symptoms from your drugs.

 

Another question that I've seen here on SA is about the MAOI activity of turmeric.  Consumer Labs reports that there is mild MAOI activity, but only when given intravenously at high doses in animal testing.  The absorption rate from taking it orally is so low as to make it difficult to take in enough to cause this MAOI effect.  So you do not need to follow an "MAOI diet" while on turmeric unless you are injecting high doses of it!  There was one death from IV infusion of Turmeric, so this method is not recommended.

 

All of this was tediously summarized and extracted from a Consumer Labs report on Turmeric.  I strongly recommend that anyone spending more than $30 a month on supplements of any kind will greatly benefit from joining Consumer Labs and reading their reports.  Consumer Labs  I am not affiliated with Consumer Labs in any way, other than as a member who reads the reports.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Steve61

I took a Curcumin supplement yesterday along with Piperine to aid absorption. I took it in the morning with breakfast. Last night I had the worst anxiety that I have had in a while. I still have some residual anxiety this morning. I am so disappointed after all the glowing reports that I have read on the supplement. I can’t be 100% sure that it’s the Curcumin. It could just be withdrawals from my Dothiepin. I will leave it for a couple of days and then try again. 

 

I do think that I am very sensitive to supplements. Anything seems to trigger anxiety. I  took tribulis terrestrial for years and then could not tolerate it any longer after having no problems for a long time. All this while on my ad. MSM was another supplement that I could not tolerate. They all seems to heighten my anxiety. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Laurajk

I have recently been reading articles online about how studies have been done on curcumin, which is the ingredient in tumeric. The studies conclude that taking curcumin for about 8 weeks works the same as  Prozac, but without the side effects. Next week I’m going to start taking the exact brand of curcumin that was used in the study. It is made by Progressive Labs and it is curcumin BCM-95. You can order it online at Pure Formula website. I’m going to continue taking 10 mg of citalopram as I start taking the curcumin. I have no idea if this is going to work, but even some of the medical websites state that it works for depression. Has anyone tried this?  I’d be interested in hearing your story if so. Good luck to all. It’s been years of hell. I would appreciate any comments. Thanks. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×