Jump to content

TMS (Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation)


Recommended Posts

Does TMS adversely affect your ability to recover? Because I had it off medications during withdrawal.

Drugs I have been on- Vyvanse 30mg, Adderal, citalopram 30mg, Zoloft 20mg, rexulti 10mg,Wellbutrin, Lexapro 20mg, buspar, Prozac 20mg, Trazodone 50mg, Ritalin 20mg.

some of them I can't remember doses for. 

 

was on on Zoloft, Ritalin, and adderal between the ages of 11-13. Then I was on Celexa and Vyvanse, between the ages of 13-21. Don't remember exact dates. 

 

Then when I went off the celexa and Vyvanse abruptly and went on all of the other medications. Between the ages of 21 and 22. 

 I saw psychiatrist for about 3 months and was put on most of them on and off. I think it was the other SSRI's besides celexa and Zoloft , buspar, Wellbutrin, and rexulti. 

 

 Then I went inpatient a few times after that where it was diagnosed as a recurrence of depression and went on and off medications like celexa, Trazodone, and most recently about 3-4 weeks ago EMSam. I have been completely off medication since than.

supplements- magnesium 250mg, and 2 omega 3's. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...
On 3/13/2018 at 11:11 AM, wildchild93 said:

Tms helped me to sleep every night for a month during a period of time when I wasn’t sleeping at all.

 

Wildchild have you done the TMS again? Did it help you with your sleep?

2000-2001: Effexor              2005-2012: Celexa, Zoloft, Effexor, desipramin, Wellbutrin, mirtazepin, Lamictal, Remeron, Abilify, nortriptylin, Cipralex, Cymbalta, and others I don't remember. Really bad side effects to all.
Sept-Nov 2012: Paxil 20mg, Wellbutrin 100mg, Imovane 5mg      Nov 2012: Paxil 20mg --> 10mg
Dec 2012: Paxil 10mg-->0; 1 week later: HUGE WD symptoms. Started to get informed on the internet and back to 10mg Paxil.
Dec 2012-Jan 2013: Paxil 10mg, Wellbutrin 100mg, Imovane 2.5mg        End Jan 2013: P 9mg, W 100mg, I 2.0mg
Feb 2013: P 8mg, W 100mg, I 1.5mg      April 2013: P 7mg, W 100mg, I 1.25mg       May 2013: P 7mg, W 90mg, I 1mg    

June 2013: P 7mg, W 80mg, I 0mg       July 1/2013: P 7, W 70     July 22/2013: P 7, W 60             Aug 2013: P 7, W 50       Sept 2013: P 6.1, W 50     Oct 2013: P up to 6.3, W 50     Nov 2013: P 6.2 to 5.9, W 50      Dec 2013: P 5.9, W 40      Jan 2014: P 5.3, W40        Feb 2014: P 5.3, W 30      March-April 2014: P 5.3, W 26    May 2014: P 5.3, W 20        June 2014: P 5.3 W 15     July 2014:  P 5.3, W 14       Aug 2014: P 5.3, W up to 15     Sept 2014: P 5.3, W 14    Oct 2014: P 4.8, W 14      Nov 2014: P 4.3, W 14     Dec 2014-Jan 2015: P 3.9, W 14     Feb 2015: P 3.9, W 12    March 2015: P 3.6, W 12   April-May 2015: P 3.3, W 12    June 2015: P 3.3, W 10    July 2015: P 3.3, W 8   Aug-Sept 2015: P 3.3, W 6   Oct 2015: P 3.0, W 6   Nov 2015: P 2.7, W 6   Dec 2015: P 2.4, W 6   Jan-Feb 2016: P 2.4, W 5  March 2016: P 2.2, W 5   April 2016: P 2.2, W 4   May-June 2016: P 2.2, W 3  July 2016: P 2.2, W 2  Aug 2016: P 2.2, W 1  Sept 2016: P 2.2, W 0!!  Oct 2016: P 2.0   Nov 2016-Jan 2017: P 1.8  Feb-Mar 2017: P 1.9  April-May 2017: P 1.8   June 2017: P 1.6 July-Dec 2017: P 1.5  Jan-April 2018: P 1.6

Others: Cytomel 25mcg (thyroid), vit. C, vit D, Omega-3 fish oil, Magnesium bisglycinate , Melatonin 1mg, 81mg Aspirin, Milk peptides, L-theanine, Valericalm tincture mix, scullcap tincture, Suan Zao Ren (jujube seeds)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderator

 

36 minutes ago, Athena said:

have you done the TMS again?

 

Here is a thread from SA on TMS:

TMS (Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation) - Surviving Antidepressants

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, soon reinstated.  CT 2000. RI 1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept. 2016  0.625mg X 3

Nov.27, 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover + change to one 18.75mg dose, w/1 month hold.

Feb. 9, 2021, begin 10% every 4 weeks taper.  Current dose as of April 10: 13mgai.  Taper is 31% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 16mgai (44mgpw).  Aug 2016, discovered SA, holding at 16mg.  Taper is 78% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg.


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 5 months later...

I had a full course (36 treatments) of  rTMS over the left dorsal lateral prefrontal cortex (DLPC) for chronic treatment resistant major depression and antidepressant withdrawal.  The TMS helped me immensely.   I was hopeful that it would work.  Before I had the treatment I had difficulty holding on to that hope because it can be hard to believe that anything will work when you have had depression as long as I have and  nothing has helped fully.  I notified an improvement right away.  I was surprised to find myself singing  to the music while driving to work after the first treatment.  I had not spontaneously sung to music in ages.  There is a big variation in how long it takes people to respond to tms.  Some people notice improvement right away, while others do not notice improvement until the very end of treatment.

 

I was extremely nervous about getting this treatment, but it really was not bad at all.  I did not find the TMS very painful.  This is coming from someone with a very low pain tolerance.  Side effects that I experienced  were mild scalp discomfort (first week of treatment only), headaches, facial twitches during treatments, and the dip (i.e. temporary emotional instability and temporary suicidal ideation.)  I already had frequent headaches and brain zaps from withdrawal before the treatment.  The headaches and brain zaps may have been a little worse during TMS?  It was hard to tell though if it was from the TMS or the withdrawal. 

 

Some people experience something called a dip during TMS.  A dip is when you suddenly feel more depressed during TMS.  It temporary and people pull out of it and then are better then before treatment.  It is actually a good sign because it is a sign that the treatment is working.  I assume the dip is what I went through.  I was feeling much better and the depression was lifting, and then  suddenly I felt worse.  During the dip I was more tearful and emotional and had some mood swings.  I also had some suicidal ideation.  I then pulled through this and continued to get better.  My doctor explained that when people are very flat before TMS they sometimes get emotional instability during treatment as the brain is trying to rebalance.  The counselor explained that my neurons had not been firing correctly for a very long time.  The TMS causes the neurons to start firing again.  The way I understand it is that as the brain is re-calibrating the neurons may over-fire, or under-fire and this causes emotional instability.  The neurons then figure out how to fire in unision and the person pulls out of the dip.  I wonder if the emotional instability and neuro-emotions from withdrawal may also be caused by something similar?  Maybe the symptoms are from the brain's attempt at healing and trying to reach homeostasis?  The doctor said that while uncomfortable, it was actually a positive sign because we want to have a range of emotions.  The doctor said that when I came in my affect was flat and my movement was sluggish.  He could tell that I seemed more animated, and less flat.  The doctor noticed that my voice had more inflection, I showed more facial expressions and  was moving better and smiling more.  Other people noticed improvements before I did. 

 

Before the TMS I felt a very narrow range of emotions.  The withdrawal caused me to fluctuate between periods of intense anxiety, anger, irritability and a horrible dead, flat, apathetic feeling, that was really the absence of all emotions.  I was unable to feel sadness or happiness.  I felt limited in my ability to feel love and connection for people around me, which made me feel horrible.  I couldn't cry.  I could have gone to my own mother's funeral and been unable to cry.  It seems odd that I could have depression and yet not feel sad.  But the depression for me was more of a feeling of deadness, flatness, apathy and anhedonia.  Feeling emotions again after having been dead for so long was overwhelming at first.  I felt emotions that I had not felt in a long time, or had not been aware of.  I couldn't even always identify what the emotions were.  I felt like a toddler at first trying to regulate my emotions.   After having Effexor artificially suppress my emotions for 18 years, I had to learn how to manage my emotions myself.  The counselor said that TMS makes patients become more aware of their emotions and also aware of how the depression had been effecting you.  This was true.  I felt like I was dead or asleep and the TMS woke me up.  While feeling emotions such as sadness was difficult at first, I also gained back the ability to feel happiness again.  The world went from grey to color.  After the dip the feelings of sadness lessened and the feelings of happiness increased.  The mood swings leveled out.  I also noticed that I felt more calm and focused at my job.  

 

Before the TMS I had severe depression and anxiety, and panic attacks.  The TMS lowered my depression from severe to very mild.  I would say it is 80 to 90% better.  The TMS also helped with the core symptoms of anxiety and PTSD.  However, it did not help with the anxiety as much as it did with the depression.  I would say the anxiety improved maybe 70%.  I would have preferred to get the right DLPC treatment because it is equally effective for depression, but more effective for anxiety.  Unfortunately it is only FDA approved for left sided treatment so that is the only side insurance is likely to pay for.  I still get bouts of heart pounding, but it is nothing compared to what it was before TMS.  I feel much more outgoing and engaged.  Friends family and co-workers noticed this as well.  It is easier to converse with people at work.  I don't have to force myself so much.  I also feel a lot less apathy and flatness.  I feel more motivated.  The TMS helped with the insomnia, although I still have some mild insomnia at times.  I feel more enjoyment in activities.  The TMS improved sexual dysfunction (sensation, orgasm and libido).  Unfortunately this effect did not last after the treatment finished.  The TMS also improved my energy levels temporarily.  For some reason this effect wore off 1/2 way through the treatments.  TMS felt very different than antidepressants.  Antidepressants numbed my emotions and made me feel dead.  TMS actually enhanced my emotions and made me feel more alive.

 

My doctor said that with my history, TMS is not a cure.  He said it could last 3 months or 5 years, but at some point I will relapse and need more treatments.  Usually you don't need a full course of treatments if you start the TMS at the first sign of relapse you usually only need a few touch up treatments.  The average time that TMS lasts is 1 year.  It has been 4 months since the TMS and I am continuing to improve.  I think if it was not for the withdrawal I would be in remission.  I still have some flat moods, mild depression, anxiety,  irritability and anger but it is a lot better then it was.  The full cost of TMS cost me $1,600 out of pocket.  The insurance payed the rest 80%.  It is rather time consuming as it is a daily treatment for 6 weeks.  So you have to be committed.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that TMS can increase the strength of antidepressants.  My doctor said that while it can improve the effectiveness of antidepressants it can also increase the side effects.  If this happens lowering the antidepressant will lessen the side effects.  I wonder if this could account for some people's bad experiences with TMS?  So if you are on antidepressants and get TMS it may be essentially like an updose.  This could also account for some but not all of people's successes with TMS during withdrawal, because updosing can help withdrawal.  However, while an increase in potency of the Effexor could have accounted for some of my improvement there is no way that this would have accounted for all of the improvement.  I say this because after the TMS the depression was even better then it was before the antidepressant taper, when I was on a much higher dose.  Before I tapered the antidepressants I was still moderately depressed because it was not working well.  After a too fast taper the depression worsened to severe.  After the TMS the depression improved to very mild.  

 

TMS has a lot of research showing it is an effective treatment for treatment resistant depression.  Unfortunately, there are no studies that I know of that have studied it as a treatment for depression from antidepressant withdrawal.  I am thinking of contacting Neurostar and suggesting that they study this.  However some studies have found it beneficial in treating drug addiction and dependency from opioids, nicotine and other drugs.        

                            

1993-2000: Zoloft few months CT, Prozac 1-2 yrs, Ritalin PRN

2002/2003: Wellbutrin,  Paxil 25mg FT, and Xanax PRN CT (all 3 to 6 months), Adderal 40mg, Strattera 40mg

2003- 2016: Effexor XR 75 mg to 150 mg., Strattera (2002-2008)

2017: Effexor XR 225 mg. Gabapentin 300 mg. Elavil 25 mg.

2018: (Sept.) Effexor XR 187.5 mg, Zoloft 10 mg. (OCT.) FT off Gabapentin (NOV.) FT off Elavil (DEC) FT Effexor to 150 mg.

2019: (JAN.) D/C Zoloft, added Viibryd 10mg (FEB) CT Viibryd, (MAR) Prozac bridge, Effexor xr 112.5mg, (Sept.) Effexor XR 112.5 mg + 0.4 mg (1 bead), (Oct.) Effexor XR 112.5mg, (Dec.28) start 10% taper Effexor XR 101.25 mg, 

2020: (Jan. 25) Effexor XR 91 mg., (Feb. 22) Effexor xr 82 mg., (Mar. 21) 75 mg. 

Supplements:  Vitamin D 5000 IU topical, Probiotic 6 billion CFU, Epsom salt bath 1C 2 to 3 X week, California Poppy 2 droppers, various essential oils 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21446-superwoman-effexor-taper/page/8/?tab=comments#comment-475779

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Mentor
ShiningLight

I get upset when I hear about TMS. I'm reminded how I've been duped and damaged all those decades with the drugs and their false promises of safety and efficacy. It's disturbing to see the same dynamic happening all over again in front of my eyes. I don't believe in the phrase "treatment resistant depression" because the treatments are at best no better than placebo in the first place. I suspect the same is true for TMS. They cooked the antidepressant studies. Why would TMS studies and outcome data be any different?

 

TMS applications are ever-expanding. The ads are all over my facebook groups. I'm concerned about the global improvements that are claimed in the ads. The ads are carefully presented and tailored to make zapping your brain seem like an everyday, no big deal thing. Just like the medications were an everyday, no big deal thing. Until they stole decades from me.

 

It's preposterous and dangerous to euphemize suicidal ideation as a "temporary dip." This is brainwashing! What kind of valid treatment causes the symptom it purports to get rid of? With its daily treatments and need for tuneups, TMS creates a steady stream of revenue for the corporations and individuals who stand to profit from it. 

Now: 150 mg Zoloft am since 2004, 50 mg Trazodone bedtime.  Daily drug burden decreased from 2050 mg to 200 mg 🐢🐢

🌞 Feb 28, 2021 0 mg Gapapentin 🌞 yaaaaaaaaaaaaaassssssss!!!

2021 Gaba each dose 4x/day: Feb 27 7 mg (one dose only), Feb 10, 7 mg, Jan 14 10 mg 2020 Current taper schedule from Aug 30-present: drop 8 mg every 2-3 weeks. Aug 20 31 mg, Aug 18, 33 mg, July 29, 35 mg, July 23 38 mg, July 22 40 mg Jun 24 42 mg, Jun 15 44 mg, Jun 9 48 mg, May 22 50 mg, May 14 54 mg, May 7 56 mg, Apr 16 58 mg, Mar 28 60 mg, Mar 18 62 mg. Feb 26 64 mg. Feb 19, 66 mg. Jan 23, 70 mg.

2019 Dec 19, 72 mg. Nov 14 ,76 mg. Aug 8, 80 mg. Aug 6, 85 mg. Jul 26, 90 mg. Jul 11, 95 mg.

Jul 16 trazodone from 100 to 50 mg.

Jun 17-July 10 Slowly changed gab fr pill to liquid at same dose 100 mg 4x/d.

Apr 24 Stopped klon!!! 🌞 Apr 4  Decreased gaba to 400 mg (100 mg 4x/day)-Apr 4, 2019   0.25 klon March 11  Klonopin .5 mg twice daily, varied dose til Apr 15. Started Klon fast taper 25%, short use

Mar 16, 450 mg gaba 3x/day cut 600 mg--not exact!--updose after learning w/d

Feb 20, 2019 1800 mg gabapentin; MD taper; off 3 days=mvt disorder & autonomic instability. July 2018 temazepam 15 mg 1-2; prn several x/wk til Jan/Feb 2019 when cold turkey, flu illness for months

July 2018 started gabapentin 100 3x/day; titrated up to 1800 mg (600 3x/day)

Buspar, I forget how much, 2 pills a day Jan 2017-July 2018 cold turkey

*I speak from my experience. Nothing I say is medical advice. I'm not a doctor.

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, ShiningLight said:

I get upset when I hear about TMS.

My intention was not to upset anyone.  I was reporting on my experience of a treatment that helped me.  I tried to be thorough, and present both the benefits and side effects that I had from TMS.   I don't particularly like the term "treatment resistant depression" either, but this is what they call it.  

 

16 hours ago, ShiningLight said:

They cooked the antidepressant studies. Why would TMS studies and outcome data be any different?

  Good question.  It is important that companies are ethical when they conduct research, because when they are not then people lose trust in ALL research.  Are they cooking data? I have never read anything that made me think so.  But who knows?  However, just because the pharmaceutical companies did this, does not mean that ALL companies do this, and that ALL research is corrupt.  Some of the studies have been non-industry funded independent studies.  It is good to have a healthy skepticism, but on the other hand you can't assume that all research is corrupted.  People are free to read the research articles and come to their own conclusions.

 

16 hours ago, ShiningLight said:

TMS applications are ever-expanding.

True.  Just today I was driving and heard an ad for TMS on the radio.

 

16 hours ago, ShiningLight said:

t's preposterous and dangerous to euphemize suicidal ideation as a "temporary dip." This is brainwashing! What kind of valid treatment causes the symptom it purports to get rid of?

I don't know if suicidal ideation is common during a dip?  But it is something that I experienced.  Everything I have read states that the dip is a temporary state.  Scientists are not sure why it occurs.  I think that the TMS probably stirs stuff up in the brain and this causes temporary unpleasant emotions.  It also stirred up some trauma memories at one point for me.  I worked through this.  As I mentioned before, TMS felt completely different then my treatment with AD's.  Unlike meds the TMS did not numb me, but rather brought my emotions back on line.  Part of that adjustment was an increase in intensity of emotions until they balanced out.  I do not intend to come across as trivializing suicidal ideation or "the dip".  I do think this something to take seriously.  On the other hand I do not wish to scare people.  I was under a doctors care and he monitored me during this.    An honest portrayal is, that while the dip was scary, difficult and uncomfortable, it was manageable and I pulled out the other end much better then before treatment. 

 

TMS sounds much scarier then it really is.  All people know to compare it to is ECT.  This comparison gives TMS a bad rap.  Although, in reality TMS is completely different then ECT.  There are risks to any treatment and people need to weigh the risks versus benefit.  TMS has been around since 1985 and FDA approved for treatment of major depression for 12 years.  Even so it is still considered a new treatment, so it is possible that some long term side effects could show up 20 years down the road.  I studied TMS extensively and I came to the conclusion that TMS is much safer then drugs or ECT.  It is not right for everyone and it has not been studied for antidepressant withdrawal, so it is possible that people in withdrawal could respond differently.  So, I can understand that moderator's caution about trying treatments during withdrawal.  However, for me the risk was worth it.  The reality is that people must find other ways to manage their depression if they are to come off of meds and stay off.  I don't think that I would have been able to continue to lower my antidepressant without TMS because I don't think it would have been safe to continue to taper the AD while being severely depressed.  There are few non-drug treatments available for mental health problems and this needs to change if the over-reliance on drugs is ever to stop.

1993-2000: Zoloft few months CT, Prozac 1-2 yrs, Ritalin PRN

2002/2003: Wellbutrin,  Paxil 25mg FT, and Xanax PRN CT (all 3 to 6 months), Adderal 40mg, Strattera 40mg

2003- 2016: Effexor XR 75 mg to 150 mg., Strattera (2002-2008)

2017: Effexor XR 225 mg. Gabapentin 300 mg. Elavil 25 mg.

2018: (Sept.) Effexor XR 187.5 mg, Zoloft 10 mg. (OCT.) FT off Gabapentin (NOV.) FT off Elavil (DEC) FT Effexor to 150 mg.

2019: (JAN.) D/C Zoloft, added Viibryd 10mg (FEB) CT Viibryd, (MAR) Prozac bridge, Effexor xr 112.5mg, (Sept.) Effexor XR 112.5 mg + 0.4 mg (1 bead), (Oct.) Effexor XR 112.5mg, (Dec.28) start 10% taper Effexor XR 101.25 mg, 

2020: (Jan. 25) Effexor XR 91 mg., (Feb. 22) Effexor xr 82 mg., (Mar. 21) 75 mg. 

Supplements:  Vitamin D 5000 IU topical, Probiotic 6 billion CFU, Epsom salt bath 1C 2 to 3 X week, California Poppy 2 droppers, various essential oils 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21446-superwoman-effexor-taper/page/8/?tab=comments#comment-475779

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Mentor
ShiningLight

Of course @Superwoman! You are not responsible for my upset feelings! It's totally my issue.

Now: 150 mg Zoloft am since 2004, 50 mg Trazodone bedtime.  Daily drug burden decreased from 2050 mg to 200 mg 🐢🐢

🌞 Feb 28, 2021 0 mg Gapapentin 🌞 yaaaaaaaaaaaaaassssssss!!!

2021 Gaba each dose 4x/day: Feb 27 7 mg (one dose only), Feb 10, 7 mg, Jan 14 10 mg 2020 Current taper schedule from Aug 30-present: drop 8 mg every 2-3 weeks. Aug 20 31 mg, Aug 18, 33 mg, July 29, 35 mg, July 23 38 mg, July 22 40 mg Jun 24 42 mg, Jun 15 44 mg, Jun 9 48 mg, May 22 50 mg, May 14 54 mg, May 7 56 mg, Apr 16 58 mg, Mar 28 60 mg, Mar 18 62 mg. Feb 26 64 mg. Feb 19, 66 mg. Jan 23, 70 mg.

2019 Dec 19, 72 mg. Nov 14 ,76 mg. Aug 8, 80 mg. Aug 6, 85 mg. Jul 26, 90 mg. Jul 11, 95 mg.

Jul 16 trazodone from 100 to 50 mg.

Jun 17-July 10 Slowly changed gab fr pill to liquid at same dose 100 mg 4x/d.

Apr 24 Stopped klon!!! 🌞 Apr 4  Decreased gaba to 400 mg (100 mg 4x/day)-Apr 4, 2019   0.25 klon March 11  Klonopin .5 mg twice daily, varied dose til Apr 15. Started Klon fast taper 25%, short use

Mar 16, 450 mg gaba 3x/day cut 600 mg--not exact!--updose after learning w/d

Feb 20, 2019 1800 mg gabapentin; MD taper; off 3 days=mvt disorder & autonomic instability. July 2018 temazepam 15 mg 1-2; prn several x/wk til Jan/Feb 2019 when cold turkey, flu illness for months

July 2018 started gabapentin 100 3x/day; titrated up to 1800 mg (600 3x/day)

Buspar, I forget how much, 2 pills a day Jan 2017-July 2018 cold turkey

*I speak from my experience. Nothing I say is medical advice. I'm not a doctor.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/5/2020 at 1:27 AM, ShiningLight said:

I get upset when I hear about TMS. I'm reminded how I've been duped and damaged all those decades with the drugs and their false promises of safety and efficacy. It's disturbing to see the same dynamic happening all over again

 

@Superwoman I am very glad that this treatment worked for you. I am appreciative that you shared your experience.

 

However, I couldn't agree with @ShiningLight more. And I wanted to echo her comments.  I liken the exploitation of us with ADs to TMS so maybe you don't want to read my comments. ;)

 

Many things in life are about separating us from our wallets. This may be one of those things. Initial cost plus ongoing costs - indefinitely? (like AD manfactuers) Drug companies are at the top of this list and they like all companies will create a market if there isn't one. Look at what prozac started.

 

Placebo studies indicate what we know - that ADs are generally of no value . People may be led to believe anything - whether meds or other. It is brainwashing.

 

As with everything - the truth escapes the general population. Those who know the facts about ADs - that they could not pass a phase II trial when properly designed - can't get the truth out there fast enough. The media and power brokers abet this. What makes TMS different?

 

On 1/5/2020 at 1:27 AM, ShiningLight said:

It's preposterous and dangerous to euphemize suicidal ideation as a "temporary dip." This is brainwashing! What kind of valid treatment causes the symptom it purports to get rid of? With its daily treatments and need for tuneups, TMS creates a steady stream of revenue for the corporations and individuals who stand to profit from it. 

 

I've had bad days. I vent. Others have bad days. This is life. ADs minimize side effects, misrepresent data, etc. 'suicidal ideation'? This is mind control.

 

This is what was said and known about prozac and all the ADs since - for decades now.  Requests for studies of WD from these drugs and suicides and crimes (not to mention shootings) has not been forthcoming nor will it likely be. Horowitz's resesarch (retrospective?) is the only major piece out there I am aware of (thanks to the Lancet).

 

If I knew then what I knew now about these drugs I would never have started them. I have lost so much to them - including the past 1.3 years to WD. Others here have lost far more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/7/2020 at 9:15 AM, Guilietta said:

I wanted to echo her comments.  I liken the exploitation of us with ADs to TMS so maybe you don't want to read my comments. ;)

It is okay for people to have differing opinions.  But this is what it is opinions, not facts.  The fact is that TMS is very different then AD’s.  

 

On 1/7/2020 at 9:15 AM, Guilietta said:

 

As with everything - the truth escapes the general population. Those who know the facts about ADs - that they could not pass a phase II trial when properly designed - can't get the truth out there fast enough. The media and power brokers abet this. What makes TMS different?

What makes TMS the same?  Why do you presume that the research is corrupted?  Have you read the research?  What research would you find credible?  Any?

 

I have not been brainwashed.  I did not go into TMS blindly.  I obsessively read countless research articles.  So much so, that one time my doctor was referencing a study and I knew what one he was referring to, because I had read it.  The treatment helped me.  

1993-2000: Zoloft few months CT, Prozac 1-2 yrs, Ritalin PRN

2002/2003: Wellbutrin,  Paxil 25mg FT, and Xanax PRN CT (all 3 to 6 months), Adderal 40mg, Strattera 40mg

2003- 2016: Effexor XR 75 mg to 150 mg., Strattera (2002-2008)

2017: Effexor XR 225 mg. Gabapentin 300 mg. Elavil 25 mg.

2018: (Sept.) Effexor XR 187.5 mg, Zoloft 10 mg. (OCT.) FT off Gabapentin (NOV.) FT off Elavil (DEC) FT Effexor to 150 mg.

2019: (JAN.) D/C Zoloft, added Viibryd 10mg (FEB) CT Viibryd, (MAR) Prozac bridge, Effexor xr 112.5mg, (Sept.) Effexor XR 112.5 mg + 0.4 mg (1 bead), (Oct.) Effexor XR 112.5mg, (Dec.28) start 10% taper Effexor XR 101.25 mg, 

2020: (Jan. 25) Effexor XR 91 mg., (Feb. 22) Effexor xr 82 mg., (Mar. 21) 75 mg. 

Supplements:  Vitamin D 5000 IU topical, Probiotic 6 billion CFU, Epsom salt bath 1C 2 to 3 X week, California Poppy 2 droppers, various essential oils 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21446-superwoman-effexor-taper/page/8/?tab=comments#comment-475779

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderator

The problem with medical research studies is that you can find support for either side of the question you like to be on.  This is especially true when doing research on the internet, during which you also have to sort through the conspiracy theories and advertising hype.  It is extremely difficult to get a "clear, true picture" of what is really going on.  Then when you throw in the personal response factor on top of it you get a mixture that is fife with arguments about what is best for whom.  In the end, an individuals personal experience is just that, a personal experience and can't be translated into how someone else will react to the same procedure.

 

It is a fact of modern life that we can't trust a word of what is published any more.  Facts, both real and imaginary, are tossed about and skewed to the writers intent with little regard for their validity or the affect the writing has on it's audience.  We, as that audience, are tasked with sorting through the muck and trying to glean out the nuggets of truth with little knowledge of what we are looking for and making "life changing" decisions based on our findings.  No mean feat, and many cases for our members a major reason that they are here. 

 

Thank you Superwoman for the detailed account of your experiences.  Personal experience is what makes up the "database" that we are building here at SA. We have "facts" in the form of what has actually happened to people with a variety of treatments and procedures.  Because of this SA has grown from a small peer support group to one of the leading authorities in the world for ADWD and related treatments.  Opinions, theories and hearsay are fine as far as they go, but personal experience is still the best source of information we can get and what we want to work with.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

Link to post
Share on other sites

@brassmonkey

 

You make some good points.  Personal experiences are valuable. 

I think it is unfair though that this forum is tagged with a negative experience at the beginning.  I think they should tag it with a story with a positive and a negative experience because this would be more balanced.  People have had mixed experiences.  I can understand why people are cautious. TMS helped me, but I can’t say how other people will react to it.  It has not been studied as a treatment for antidepressant withdrawal.  It is possible that people in withdrawal could react unpredictability to it.  It is also possible though that it could really help people.  Everyone is different.  People need to weigh the risks and benefits and do what they feel is right for them.  

1993-2000: Zoloft few months CT, Prozac 1-2 yrs, Ritalin PRN

2002/2003: Wellbutrin,  Paxil 25mg FT, and Xanax PRN CT (all 3 to 6 months), Adderal 40mg, Strattera 40mg

2003- 2016: Effexor XR 75 mg to 150 mg., Strattera (2002-2008)

2017: Effexor XR 225 mg. Gabapentin 300 mg. Elavil 25 mg.

2018: (Sept.) Effexor XR 187.5 mg, Zoloft 10 mg. (OCT.) FT off Gabapentin (NOV.) FT off Elavil (DEC) FT Effexor to 150 mg.

2019: (JAN.) D/C Zoloft, added Viibryd 10mg (FEB) CT Viibryd, (MAR) Prozac bridge, Effexor xr 112.5mg, (Sept.) Effexor XR 112.5 mg + 0.4 mg (1 bead), (Oct.) Effexor XR 112.5mg, (Dec.28) start 10% taper Effexor XR 101.25 mg, 

2020: (Jan. 25) Effexor XR 91 mg., (Feb. 22) Effexor xr 82 mg., (Mar. 21) 75 mg. 

Supplements:  Vitamin D 5000 IU topical, Probiotic 6 billion CFU, Epsom salt bath 1C 2 to 3 X week, California Poppy 2 droppers, various essential oils 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21446-superwoman-effexor-taper/page/8/?tab=comments#comment-475779

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

One more thing to mention is that my doctor told me that I need to inform him if I change any medications or supplements during treatment.  He said, while the risk of seizure is low when it does happen if is usually because the person changed their meds and didn’t tell the doctor or they were out drinking heavily the night before.   This is because some medications and supplements can change the motor threshold and the doctor might need to retest the motor threshold or adjust the machine.  It is best not to change any meds or supplements during treatment if possible. 
 

I ran into a problem with my doctor because he did not believe in withdrawal.  My doctor threw a fit when I told him I wanted to open the capsules and divide the beads.  I would have just not told my doctor what I was doing but I did not want to risk a seizure.  Anyway, I now have an appointment with a different TMS doctor in March.  I hope that this one is more reasonable.  
 

1993-2000: Zoloft few months CT, Prozac 1-2 yrs, Ritalin PRN

2002/2003: Wellbutrin,  Paxil 25mg FT, and Xanax PRN CT (all 3 to 6 months), Adderal 40mg, Strattera 40mg

2003- 2016: Effexor XR 75 mg to 150 mg., Strattera (2002-2008)

2017: Effexor XR 225 mg. Gabapentin 300 mg. Elavil 25 mg.

2018: (Sept.) Effexor XR 187.5 mg, Zoloft 10 mg. (OCT.) FT off Gabapentin (NOV.) FT off Elavil (DEC) FT Effexor to 150 mg.

2019: (JAN.) D/C Zoloft, added Viibryd 10mg (FEB) CT Viibryd, (MAR) Prozac bridge, Effexor xr 112.5mg, (Sept.) Effexor XR 112.5 mg + 0.4 mg (1 bead), (Oct.) Effexor XR 112.5mg, (Dec.28) start 10% taper Effexor XR 101.25 mg, 

2020: (Jan. 25) Effexor XR 91 mg., (Feb. 22) Effexor xr 82 mg., (Mar. 21) 75 mg. 

Supplements:  Vitamin D 5000 IU topical, Probiotic 6 billion CFU, Epsom salt bath 1C 2 to 3 X week, California Poppy 2 droppers, various essential oils 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21446-superwoman-effexor-taper/page/8/?tab=comments#comment-475779

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 year later...

I advise against it. We have a group on fb victims of tms . There you can find my story and others that have been harmed by this procedure. No one should do this , only as a last resort where brain damage is not that important anymore.

JUNE 2019 Tried Coaxil ,wellbutrin, cipralex, mirtazapine, effexor, sertraline, benzoS for 5 months.November 2019 started prozac 30 mg, took till May 2020 and started tapering 5 mg at a time till reached 2.5mg once every 2 3 days.January 2020 stopped benzos (tapered for 2 months).27 December 2020 stopped Prozac, 2 bad weeks.January and  february was feeling well.I am taking 2 mg of lorazepam /year.Tried 5Htp 100mg Febr 2020 for a copule of days, vomited non stop. Stopped right away.No supplements, possibly allergic to excipients now. 30 mg of Ulipristil acetate on 25th of febr.

Reinstated 0.4 mg of prozac 12 march  , had 0.2mg 13 march. Stopped reinstatement, feeling better. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...
On 3/8/2013 at 3:08 PM, Altostrata said:

It's not going to do anything for withdrawal symptoms. It may be irritating.

 

You can't treat withdrawal as though it were ordinary depression or other so-called psychiatric disorder (as though they know how to treat that!).

My doctor recommended this to me today when I kept refusing to go back on meds or start GABAPENTIN! AHH! Of all drugs. Anyhow, I told her I would look into it and get back to her (knowing in my core that this was probably no magic treatment either). I will definitely be avoiding this as well. 

Prozac: 20-40mg from 2006-2019. Zoloft: 2003-2005 off and on. Adderall XR: 20-50mg (abused so took more than prescribed often) 2006-2016. Amphetamine Salts 2006-2016 10-20mg (abused). Ativan: 2009-2010 1mg. Suboxone 16mg sublingual strips 2013-2016. Vyvanse: mg? (abused) 2014-2015. Alprazolam: December 2018- June 2019 1-2mg (abused). Diazepam: June 2019-November 2019 mg? (used to taper me off of Xanax). Lexapro: 2018-2020 10-20mg. Mitrazapine 30mg: Nov 2019-May 2020 (tapered off over 3 months) Trintillex: May 2019-December 2019 (mg?). Hormonal birth control 2003-2019.

 

supplements (current):

Morning: 400mg L-Theanine, 375mg magnesium.

Night:  450mg Valerian Root, 2.5mg Melatonin 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use Privacy Policy