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Mountain Man greetings and introduction


MountainMan

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Hello, first of all let me say that I'm not really a mountain man. That name just kind of came to me when I was thinking of a name.

 

I've been on Zoloft and Remeron for about ten years. I stopped these meds, on my own (it's impossible to find a doctor to work with you, after all) about two years ago and, because of it, went to hell. I had been fairly stable on the meds since 2003 and didn't see any reason to go off, until I decided that it would be nice to date again. One of the side effects I had was a very low libido. I didn't date at all from 2003, nor cared to. That's the reason I wanted to get off, or at least to try to get off. 2011 was a hell for me. I was overcome with severe depression. I felt people were laughing at me. I became angry. I was a mess. I wound up in the hospital.

 

I figured, while I was in the hospital, that I should just stick with the medication. After all, the relapse was too painful. So I went back on Zoloft. High dosage. And since everyone knows how wonderful these medications are, I immediately felt better! Yep, you got it. Sarcasm. From September 2011 till the end of the year, a black cloud loomed around my life. The only difference now is that I was on medication this time. I went from one doctor to another and finally went back to the one I saw ten years ago, who had me on antidepressants and antipsychotics. This one wanted me to supplement the Zoloft with Abilify. She also told me -- to my face -- that she worried I might go on a shooting spree and told my brother, over the phone, that the Ablilify is necessary to keep my psychotic symptoms at bay. Never mind the diabetes or other serious side effects of antipsychotic. We're trying to prevent a Columbine here.

 

I convinced her to just put me on Remeron, since that worked so well for about ten years. And so, for the past many months, I've been back on Zoloft and Remeron. But not with my doctor looking for every little excuse to convince me to go on Abilify. I finally had enough of her antics and decided to leave her in the dust. The problem came up though that I needed another doctor to prescribe my medications.

 

And I have not been able to find a suitable place as of yet. All the clinics and hospitals I've called are either not taking patients now or insist that you see the doctor every month (no refills) and see a therapist every week. I can understand the benefit of talk therapy but you can't force it on anyone. Of late, I've been keeping my mood up (not that I've been depressed in the past many months) by doing things I enjoy to do and talking to friends and family. To have to go every week to see a therapist, and sit there forcing myself to come up with things to say is just a hassle. And even worse is having to see the doctor every month, as if *all* mental health patients are so unstable that seeing them every three months or six months might cause serious problems.

 

My hand being forced, I, in the past few days, have considered weaning off of the meds entirely. So I've done some online research and found this website. There's also a lot of opinions out there that I don't agree with too much. A relative of mine, who means well, is otherwise quite ill-informed. She tells me that I shouldn't take prescribed medication because it's just a ploy to make big bucks for the pharmaceutical companies and that the meds are just processed anyway. Then she goes on and suggests I take "natural" herbs (which apparently are given away for free and not processed in any way whatsoever). Then there's an uncle who refuses to believe that depression is anything but a person's unwillingness to be strong.

 

The fact is, clinical depression *is* real. However, no one really knows what causes it. And that's the problem. First the experts believed it's due to a chemical imbalance. Now I've read that new research has found something about nerve endings dying and medication recreating them (or something like that). The point is that we don't know what really is causing this condition yet we are prescribing medication to do something to the brain that we don't really know it's doing.

 

I was recently in the emergency room and hospital for two weeks because of massive blood clots in my lungs. I was hit with heavy duty blood thinners, in the stomach, twice a day for two weeks. With each passing day, those clots got smaller and eventually disappeared. The doctors knew *exactly* what was the problem (blood clots) and they gave me medication to combat it. And it worked. But with mental health meds, they throw a medicine at you and then tell you it takes time to work. Two months later, when it still hasn't worked, you're increased the dosage, or given a second medicine, or both. It's trial and error. If trial and error is how my blood clots were to be dealt with, I'd still be in the hospital.

 

I had an incredible revelation earlier today. If anybody asks me what my diagnosis is, I'd say severe depression and generalized anxiety. I can remember being overwhelmed with anxious thoughts throughout my childhood and teens and into my early twenties, when I first swallowed Zoloft for the first time. I was eaten alive by anxieties. BUT I WAS NEVER DEPRESSED. I can remember hundreds of episodes, right now, of my school years, where I was anxious that something bad was going to happen, but not once do I remember being severely depressed. I was a happy kid, excited about life.

 

Thinking about this now, it pisses me off. It angers me greatly to think that my last doctor wanted me on anti-freaking-psychotics because she has some kind of fetish in misdiagnosing people with psychosis. I'm not that angry with my first doctor who put me on Zoloft. He diagnosed me with anxiety and that was what he was trained to do: prescribe meds for it. But I am annoyed at the profession that refuses, as a matter of course, to take people off of medicines. I can understand the concern about relapse of symptoms, but who knows how many people are overprescribed meds. Maybe someone might need 50 milligrams of Zoloft but patients rarely get the minimum. It's always ten times that amount because, as they wait for months for it to kick in, the dosage is invariably increased, not to mention added meds.

 

So, after this long and boring introduction, here I am. And I'm scared. I know what it's like to be depressed and I don't want to go through that again. But there is some hope now in this recent revelation that perhaps my intense depression of two years ago was due not so much to relapse but to withdrawal. In any case, I'm going to have to find a doctor to prescribe me medication anyway, to allow me to taper off, as opposed to stopping cold turkey (which is what I'm going to be forced to do if I don't find a psychiatrist in the meantime).

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Mountain Man and welcome!

I feel your pain, many of us are in similar situations, but fortunately have discovered a way to reduce off and slowly reclaim our lives.

 

I am a little confused at what medications and dosages you are currently on? It sounds like you have been in a protracted withdrawal state for the past 2 years. Not much apart from time will help to relieve this. Some good quality fish oil and magnesium can help to support your nervous system whilst it heals, but you may find that you are sensitive to drugs and supplements.

 

You will need to find a doctor to continue to prescribe your medications - most of us here are tapering at about 10% every month or so. Some people cannot even tolerate 10% and need to go at 5%. You don't want to stop cold turkey again incase you further shock your system.

Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi MountainMan,

 

Welcome to the group! You will find lots of support and a wealth of information here.

 

The psychiatrist that put me on a load of medicine had me coming once a month too. He was not willing to even talk about me getting off the meds that he put me on while I was grieving the loss of my brother, whom I cared for the last three weeks of his life. (I mention this because its the only reason for four psych meds).

 

I got my GP to prescribe all the meds and allow me to taper off them slowly. He gives me five refills on the psych meds. Hopefully, you can find an MD to do this for you.

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  • Administrator

Welcome, MountainMan.

 

Yes, you may no longer need both or either medication. You can taper off, see this topic about tapering Zoloft http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1441-tips-for-tapering-off-zoloft-sertraline/ and this one about Remeron http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2028-tips-for-tapering-off-mirtazapine/

 

To minimize withdrawal symptoms, we recommend a 10% taper, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/ If I were you, I'd start with the Zoloft, which comes in a liquid.

 

Do you have a doctor you can work with? Any MD can write prescriptions for these drugs. Few know anything about tapering; you'll have to "suggest" what you want to do.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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The website theicarusproject.net has a great resource for deciding what to do with meds. Go to the resources section, then select Harm Reduction. Best, Meimeiquest

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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Peggy, currently I'm on 150 mg of Zoloft and 15 mg of Remeron. I went down from 200 mg of Zoloft and 30 mg of Remeron, in anticipation of me not having any meds left. Of course, I don't wish to go cold turkey nor aim to. I see my GP on March 1 and will state my case. I hope she can at least prescribe the meds for me. Also, I can see now that the decrease might have been too much. (I felt a little sick two days ago but am much better now.) I'm going to keep the 10 to 20% numbers in mind.

 

Tezza, obviously I don't know your exact situation except from the few short sentences describing your case and hope I'm not being forward but it seems to me that your case is a classical one of being overprescribed. Of course you already know this but it's exactly what I've just begun to learn. A person who watches a loved one die obviously will suffer grief and pain. But four psych meds? It's so ironic because they put people on these pills as a quick fix but then tell you that it doesn't always work right away so you have to wait . . . for weeks . . . or maybe months. For personal grief, talk therapy goes much further. When my father died, I found being with family to be the single most comforting thing to help me through the mourning period.

 

All of this is just swirling around me right now. On one hand, I'm excited about this proof I've just realized that I was never depressed before Zoloft and so I have a fighting chance to live off of these drugs. But on the other, I'm angry. I don't think anyone who is not clinically depressed should be put on these meds. It's not just the side effects like dry mouth and sexual dysfunction but the fact that these apparently *cause* depression. I know someone who was put on antidepressants because his wife died and he couldn't handle it. But even after years of being on the damned things, he was still sad. Aren't they supposed to work? Why not take him off the things then? It's so infuriating.

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Welcome, MountainMan.

 

 

Do you have a doctor you can work with? Any MD can write prescriptions for these drugs. Few know anything about tapering; you'll have to "suggest" what you want to do.

 

I know. It's going to be difficult, of course. It seems like I'm going to have to be a little sneaky and just taper down on my own while pretending to take the full amount. I don't want to do that but I can see it's very difficult to convince a typical doctor about my concerns. And when you're a mental health patient, a lot of times the doctors are a little condescending, as if you don't know what's best for your health. I'm not sure what I'm going to do just yet but will talk to my doc on the first of March.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

MountainMan,

 

You are right, I was poly drugged and the psych doc should have told me I was grieving and that it was normal to feel that way. Unfortunately, I live a good distance away from all the relatives that called and/or visited daily for the three weeks my brother was here. After he passed they just disappeared. I tried to keep contact with them but they seemed much too busy. I was very lonely and went to the PDOC less than two weeks after my brother died.

 

I see now that he only wanted money. He never saw me more than five minutes during any visit. I wish so badly I'd never gone to him. Your GP should prescribe these meds for you. I'm tapering Remeron by crushing the 30 mg pill and mixing with 30 mL of water. I've slowly made it down to 4.2 mg.

 

Some people can go faster and some have to taper very slowly. Since you felt a little sick for a few days and made fairly large cuts, you might need to hold there for a bit before tapering again.

 

Alto will give you the best advice you could possibly find.

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It's also recommended on here to taper one drug at a time. That way you can tell what might cause withdrawals and you'll know if you need to hold longer.

 

We call it listening to your body. Alto is the best for advising you but I would probably taper the Zoloft before the Remeron. Cannot stress enough the need to go very slow in tapering.

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Thanks Tezza. This is certainly a good resource for people in our situation.

 

And again, it was so unfortunate that you had to be put on antidepressants for a natural part of life. But I don't always think it's the doctors' faults. It's just the way they are trained: if someone is sad -- for whatever reason -- well, we've got "magic pills" for that. Except they also tell you they really aren't "magic pills" three weeks later when you're still feeling crummy.

 

Obviously people have different capabilities of mourning losses. And then there are different levels of loss. I couldn't even begin to imagine the pain a parent would feel in losing a child. Or if a loved one is murdered. Or if you're the victim of a terrorist attack (like 9/11). But even in these cases, medication shouldn't be the first course of action, yet it invariably is these days. It really isn't right. Like my elderly friend I mentioned, who lost his wife and was still depressed years later, even though he was on a mess of medications. Maybe those meds caused that depression to linger in the first place. Perhaps he could have, in time, coped in a more natural way. (One thing is for certain: they didn't make him less sad.)

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Oh I couldn't imagine any of the losses you spoke of either! One other that would be really difficult for me to get over would be if my child committed suicide. I've known a few people that did that and it was difficult just knowing them. I couldn't help wondering if I could've done or said something that would have prevented it.

 

This is truly a great forum! Alto puts in a lot of time and work to make it what it is for us. The members are all so caring and supportive of each other. I'm glad you found your way here. When I first joined I was trying to stabilize from a cold turkey of Risperdal. It's a very powerful anti-psychotic and I didn't know I couldn't just stop taking it. Alto and the information here has helped me a lot.

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Hi MM...

 

Welcome. To be honest today I am somewhat confused about medications. Are they the most dangerous drugs in the world? Do they help?

 

I do know that depression is real. So is anxiety. On the cover of National Geographic back in the late 90's DNA researchers have uncovered DNA markers for depression and anxiety.

 

I does exist. I can be genetic. It is real.

 

Problem now is like you said, over prescribing. I didn't catch how you got off your meds before you went to the hospital.

 

Getting off of them is dangerous because of all the side effects (WD symptoms) which include bad depression, anxiety and a host of physical side effects which can be debilitating.

 

So the question on an individual scale is....Do I need medications? If so, how and what can I use in the smallest amount possible?

 

I am not an expert on this. I know about zoloft, not remeron. You can google, all the ad's out there by logging onto crazymeds.com. There are alot of blogs out there from people who have had experiences with these drugs.

 

We all have a shared compassion for anyone who comes on here and has gone thru the ringer like you and so many others. There is tons of info on here about meds and other people's experiences. Might be a good idea to read thru the site.

 

If you want a good source for tapering read Strawberry's log. Mood swings....Neuro-emotions by Healing.

 

Alto know so much about these meds. Talk to her. She can really give you good advise.

 

In the meantime, hand in there.

 

Nikki

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine

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Hi MM...

 

 

Problem now is like you said, over prescribing. I didn't catch how you got off your meds before you went to the hospital.

 

 

 

Nikki, two years ago I just went off on my own. Then I came down hard and wound up in the hospital. This time around, I'm going to do a lot more research and also see if my doctor can support me. Of course, this type of website is also a good resource.

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  • 3 weeks later...

It's hard to find a psychiatrist who will be willing to taper me off of these meds, especially when I had a major depressive episode the last time I tried to do so on my own (and when I went cold turkey). At least I'm no longer with the nut who insisted that I was likely to go on a shooting spree. But it's going to be difficult to find a place that can help me taper and I have no illusions that there are many doctors out there willing to help me in this regard. I still haven't read the recovery stories on this website but am sure to get some information and inspiration from those posts.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Mountainman,

 

While it would be great to find a psychiatrist or doctor willing to help us through the process, many of us aren't in the position do so.

 

I've been doing it on my own and have had fantastic advice and support all along by the members of this forum.

 

You can do it too.

 

It might be helpful to include your drug history in your signature so that members can see it at a glance. It will help us to help you.

 

Take care

July 2001 prescribed 20mg citalopram for depression;
On and off meds from 2003-2006.
February 2006 back on 20mg citalopram and stayed on it until my last attempt at tapering in September 2011.
By far the worst withdrawal symptoms ever. Reinstated to 20mg citalopram
October 2012 - found this forum!
Nov 2012 to Feb 2013 did 10% taper, got doen to 11mg - was going great until stressful situation. Cortisol levels hit the roof, hideous insomnia forced me to updose to 20mg.
March 2016 - close to 100% back to normal!



****** I am not a medical practitioner, any advice I give comes from my own experience or reading and is only my perspective ******

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It's hard to find a psychiatrist who will be willing to taper me off of these meds, especially when I had a major depressive episode the last time I tried to do so on my own (and when I went cold turkey). At least I'm no longer with the nut who insisted that I was likely to go on a shooting spree. But it's going to be difficult to find a place that can help me taper and I have no illusions that there are many doctors out there willing to help me in this regard. I still haven't read the recovery stories on this website but am sure to get some information and inspiration from those posts.

 

 

Hi Mountain Man,

I merged your topic about finding a doctor with your intro topic so you can keep it all together, that way the into forum doesn't get too bogged down.

 

It isn't easy to find a doctor that we can work with - there is a thread in the tapering forum with some recommended doctor names - you might be lucky enough to find someone there that is not too far from you. I would also like to suggest that perhaps you didn't have a major depressive episode when you came off last time, rather you may have been suffering the side effects of withdrawal - especially given that you say that prior to going on the meds you had not suffered depression.

 

Many members here have managed to either reduce off or are in the process of reducing off without Dr assistance - they are simply reducing by no more than 10% every month or so, listening to their bodies and adjusting the medication as required. Some of our mods here have more knowledge and experience than many Dr's on psychiatric medication withdrawal syndrome.

Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg

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It's hard to find a psychiatrist who will be willing to taper me off of these meds, especially when I had a major depressive episode the last time I tried to do so on my own (and when I went cold turkey). At least I'm no longer with the nut who insisted that I was likely to go on a shooting spree. But it's going to be difficult to find a place that can help me taper and I have no illusions that there are many doctors out there willing to help me in this regard. I still haven't read the recovery stories on this website but am sure to get some information and inspiration from those posts.

 

 

I would also like to suggest that perhaps you didn't have a major depressive episode when you came off last time, rather you may have been suffering the side effects of withdrawal - especially given that you say that prior to going on the meds you had not suffered depression.

 

 

 

I'm still not exactly sure what withdrawal syndrome is but I'm learning. I know that I get itchy skin all over my body. But the depression is just sickening. I don't want to get out of bed. I want to die. I get sad over the littlest things and I feel sorry for myself and for other people in agony and pain to the point where I can't even concentrate on anything else. I don't want to go through that again. But then, I went cold turkey last time, so that surely contributed too.

 

One thing that I know is a problem with me is OCD. The more I go off the meds, the more likely, I'm sure, I'm going to have an increase in these symptoms. However, the good news for me is that an anxiety problem like OCD can be treated with therapy and perseverance. It's not easy, not by a long shot, but it's possible. For years, I've read an excellent book called *Brain Lock*. I'm re-reading it now. I think now is the best time for me to do the therapy techniques, when I'm still on the meds and my obsessions are not that strong. I only wish that I was put into this kind of therapy back before I ever got on medication. But one can't cry over spilled milk, of course.

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Hi MM--

 

Just skimmed through your thread and want to pass along a couple of thoughts--

 

First, I highly highly recommend you read the books by Robert Whitaker, Anatomy of an Epidemic and Mad in America. Read Anatomy first. It will help you understand and clarify some of the things you seem to be wondering about (how the drugs work etc), and also gives a great historical context about how these drugs came to be prescribed so widely and so forcefully. And I think Mad In America is a must read for anyone who's been "cared for" in our mental health "care" system.

 

No rush, just when you get a chance, highly recommend those books.

 

Second thought: (You do seem to be doing this)--Don't do anything just yet. Take the time to read through the information here about tapering, so when you start, you can do so methodically. Given your history I think you should start very slowly and conservatively.

 

Third thought: Unfortunately, a lot of people do end up just having to pretend like they're taking their full doses, and taper on their own. The bad news about this is that if you need to talk to a doc about other medical issues, you can't talk to them about what's going on with your taper. The good news about that bad news is that they probably know much less about psych med withdrawal and tapering than you will by then anyway, so it's not like they'd have been much help.

 

Anyhow, you're in the right place. We are all very fortunate that this website is here--it hasn't always been, and it won't always be, and it's a brilliant resource. Leading edge thinking on antidepressant withdrawal; Alto is brilliant and exhaustively well-informed, and there are a lot of other great folks here too.

 

So welcome and good luck to ya!

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

Oct 2022       4.5 mg Lamictal    (off Celexa, off Xanax)   0.95 Valium    Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi MM,

 

Good to see you again! I'm sorry about the depression you're feeling now. I had it really bad for quite a while and thought it would never end. Please do give yourself plenty of time to stabilize before starting a taper. I believe you will, just concerned.

 

I would write more but don't have a very clear head this morning. I slept less than two hours last night, not sure why, hopeful that tonight will be better.

 

Tezza

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It's hard to find a psychiatrist who will be willing to taper me off of these meds, especially when I had a major depressive episode the last time I tried to do so on my own (and when I went cold turkey). At least I'm no longer with the nut who insisted that I was likely to go on a shooting spree. But it's going to be difficult to find a place that can help me taper and I have no illusions that there are many doctors out there willing to help me in this regard. I still haven't read the recovery stories on this website but am sure to get some information and inspiration from those posts.

 

 

I would also like to suggest that perhaps you didn't have a major depressive episode when you came off last time, rather you may have been suffering the side effects of withdrawal - especially given that you say that prior to going on the meds you had not suffered depression.

 

 

 

I'm still not exactly sure what withdrawal syndrome is but I'm learning. I know that I get itchy skin all over my body. But the depression is just sickening. I don't want to get out of bed. I want to die. I get sad over the littlest things and I feel sorry for myself and for other people in agony and pain to the point where I can't even concentrate on anything else. I don't want to go through that again. But then, I went cold turkey last time, so that surely contributed too.

 

One thing that I know is a problem with me is OCD. The more I go off the meds, the more likely, I'm sure, I'm going to have an increase in these symptoms. However, the good news for me is that an anxiety problem like OCD can be treated with therapy and perseverance. It's not easy, not by a long shot, but it's possible. For years, I've read an excellent book called *Brain Lock*. I'm re-reading it now. I think now is the best time for me to do the therapy techniques, when I'm still on the meds and my obsessions are not that strong. I only wish that I was put into this kind of therapy back before I ever got on medication. But one can't cry over spilled milk, of course.

 

I too, have OCD symptoms. Mine did end up a lot stronger after weaning. (Thank you for reminding me to pick up one of my books)

 

But you are doing something *I wish* I did before starting this process. You're doing research on the best way to go about it. I weaned too fast and didn't do enough of my own due diligence.

 

If I would have found this site first, things would have been different for me, I'm sure of it.

 

Stay strong!

Started Fluoxetine Jan. 2010

Tried to go off of it in Sept. 2010

Weaned too fast and was back on it by Nov. 2010

Didn't work as good the second time around.

Started to wean again in Nov. 2011 and was off for good by April? 2012

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Hi MM,

 

Good to see you again! I'm sorry about the depression you're feeling now. I had it really bad for quite a while and thought it would never end. Please do give yourself plenty of time to stabilize before starting a taper. I believe you will, just concerned.

 

Tezza

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I feel fine at this point. I was talking about the deep depression I went through two years ago when I went cold turkey. I'm definitely going to be very, very conservative about my tapering off here and as Rhi very wisely suggested, I'm not in a rush just yet to start tapering off just yet. I'm still educating myself -- not only about the withdrawal syndrome but about how to taper off (and how to communicate with doctors). Also, as I mentioned before, I'm on Coumadin so need to take care of that situation first before I consider any tapering process.

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I too, have OCD symptoms. Mine did end up a lot stronger after weaning. (Thank you for reminding me to pick up one of my books)

 

But you are doing something *I wish* I did before starting this process. You're doing research on the best way to go about it. I weaned too fast and didn't do enough of my own due diligence.

 

If I would have found this site first, things would have been different for me, I'm sure of it.

 

Stay strong!

 

Thanks dunerbug and same to you! I definitely recommend that book. It's not an easy process but it's worth it. It's probably best to be in a therapy program with a good therapist who can guide you when you have a relapse or the obsessions are too strong. One mistake I've always made in doing the therapy from *Brain Lock* is that I beat myself up when I can't make the obsessive thoughts go away. But that's nothing people like us can control. But we *can* control the compulsive acts and by avoiding those, eventually those obsessive thoughts will get weaker.

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  • 1 month later...

Hello friends. A little update on my situation.

 

When I first started posting here (if I remember correctly), I was on 200 mg of Zoloft and 30 mg of Remeron. At this point, I am on 100 mgs of Zoloft and 7.5 of Remeron. I have not tapered off as suggested on this site but have been a bit more aggressive. However, compared to my last attempts at tapering off, it's much more conservative.

 

I wouldn't mind going by the 10 percent rule. It's just a matter of buying a few items and then diluting the drugs. But there are so many other factors involved that I just decided to take a calculated risk. So far, so good, although what tomorrow brings I can't say. But then, I could stretch out my tapering off over years and then still have some kind of relapse. Who knows? Right now, I've effectively halved my doses and I'm doing okay. My telltale symptoms are itchy skin and that's been pretty much nonexistent. My mood is better than good. In fact, I have more confidence and excitement now about life than when I was on 200 milligrams of Zoloft.

 

I am, nevertheless, very, very, very concerned about becoming depressed again. Sometimes I have doubts and wonder if I do need to be on meds for the rest of my life. It's scary. Depression is no joke. And it still pisses me off that there are ignormuses out there who will say that depression is not real. But that's not the issue with us as far as this website goes.

 

One of the reasons that I want to expedite the process of getting off meds is because I just want to be free of the mental health system. When I think of the way it works, it angers me. I know, I know. I need to be careful about getting sick again but, as I said, it's a calculated risk which so far seems to have paid off (although I'm not out of the woods just yet). I understand that there are doctors out there who are sympathetic to the cause of persons like us but they are hard to find, if not impossible. Everyone I've been to, and which I've come clean to, have said that it is not wise for a person, such as myself, who went off meds and got so severely depressed again to go off the meds. We're on our own.

 

I'm reading a book right now, The Mindful Way Through Depression. I'm going to start on the meditations this book teaches and then, in a couple months or so, take the next step down on Zoloft.

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  • Administrator

Good to hear from you, MM. What has your tapering schedule been like?

 

You might consider slowing down now. People often hit bumps when they reach the half-way mark.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Good to hear from you, MM. What has your tapering schedule been like?

 

You might consider slowing down now. People often hit bumps when they reach the half-way mark.

 

I halved my Remeron on February 12 (from 30 to 15) and then to 7.5 on April 3. I went from 200 of Zoloft to 150 on February 12 and then went down to 100 on April 3. I know the importance of tapering off one medication at a time and why that is important but, so far, so good.

 

I will stick to this dosage for at least another couple of weeks, as I continue to learn the mindful awareness techniques in the book I mentioned, as well as keeping in mind various therapy techniques to deal with OCD symptoms that might get stronger. It's funny, but I feel less irritated by obsessive thoughts now on 100 mg of Zoloft than when I was on a higher dosage. I have no idea why this is. Maybe it's imagined. Maybe it's a reverse-placebo. Who knows. But I am constantly nervous about a serious relapse again. But that nervousness is not, as of now, any symptom of mental illness but more a natural concern that is quite expected for someone going through this process.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

MM, I was really concerned about falling into another depression when I began my tapering process years ago. Like you I had never had depressive episodes before starting antidepressants and then trying (many times) to get off of them. But I had terrible depressions once I took my first AD and then intermittently throughout the years both on and off the drugs, but mostly while I was trying (not carefully and not tapering) to get off them.

 

If it's any help, I haven't had ANY trouble with depression during my taper. Quite the contrary. Lots of weird anxieties and neuro-emotions and physical stuff and other symptoms, but never any of those awful depressive symptoms. And the suicidality disappeared after the first couple of years of tapering and not only has it not come back, I am enjoying life (most of the time) more than ever.

 

However I have been doing a MUCH slower taper than you are doing.

 

Still, just thought you might like to know that someone with a history of severe, severe depressive symptoms while being "medicated" but no history of such symptoms before medication, is getting off the drugs with no "relapse" symptoms.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

Oct 2022       4.5 mg Lamictal    (off Celexa, off Xanax)   0.95 Valium    Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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Thanks a lot for the information, Rhi. It's information and stories like this that help greatly for people still in the process, who arent exactly sure what is going to happen, due to the dearth of information available to us. It's inspiring and very useful, particularly when doubts seem a bit strong.

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Hi MM....

 

Your introduction brought so much into the light. Well put. Depression is a real disease, why it's there no one really knows.

 

Sorry you had to go thru such troubles with doctors. And yes, a relapse into depression is scary. It does happen, sadly for some it is not just WD.

 

The WD depression is rough so is the anxiety.

 

I was thinking today, that from drugs, we now have worse anxiety and depression...Go figure :rolleyes:

 

Abilify is the biggest bunch of crap out there. Glad you didn't get hooked into that.

 

Hugs

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine

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I was thinking today, that from drugs, we now have worse anxiety and depression...Go figure :rolleyes:

 

Abilify is the biggest bunch of crap out there. Glad you didn't get hooked into that.

 

Hugs

 

Right. And the doctors won't admit they don't really know what causes mental illness or what the drugs do to counter it. If there was a drug that worked, *all the time*, we couldn't really argue. But lots of people get worse and yet they keep throwing meds at us, like darts at a board hoping to hit the center. One doctor told me that I should consider electroshock therapy because it was like alt-ctrl-del for the brain! I've met people who've tried every med in the book, have been shocked over separate occassions and are still *very* messed up and I wonder what if they just did some kind of therapy from the get-go, maybe they'd be well now and are only so mentally symptomatic from the various "treatments" they've received.

 

And, oh, yes, not going on Abilify despite my doctor's annoying insistence is one little victory for me, that's for sure!

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'm convinced that antidepressants do work on the placebo principle for depression, for most people. However, what about for anxiety, particularly OCD? When I first took Zoloft, I remember feeling much improved almost immediately in my OCD symptoms. I wonder if that's imagined, too or if there was a real effect. I wonder if perhaps I need to stay on Zoloft, at least for the OCD reasons. I really don't want to and I do believe that therapy can do wonders, but I'm just a little bit more unsure right now about eventually stopping Zoloft altogether.

 

On the other hand, maybe the Zoloft just mixed up chemicals in my brain so that OCD couldn't work but caused other problems (like a tendency to depression). I'm not sure and wonder if there is more information on this matter.

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  • Administrator

Antidepressants are psychoactive drugs and have neurophysiological effects. Some of these effects are side effects or adverse effects. Whether you interpret the effect of the drug as helpful determines if they "work" for you.

 

It's the interpretation that's the "placebo" effect. There is no doubt the drugs change biochemistry in everyone.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Antidepressants are psychoactive drugs and have neurophysiological effects. Some of these effects are side effects or adverse effects. Whether you interpret the effect of the drug as helpful determines if they "work" for you.

 

It's the interpretation that's the "placebo" effect. There is no doubt the drugs change biochemistry in everyone.

 

Considering also that I still had trouble concentrating fully after the Zoloft started, and that months later was switched to other medications, apparently any positive effect I may have noticed wasn't a complete elimination of the symptoms. It's really a chemical lobotomy, if you think about it. Back then, they'd scrape something into your skull because you were a little rambunctious. If you were no longer rambunctious, than the procedure "worked." If you couldn't count past three, well: side effects.

 

Besides, at the end of last year, because of stressful life circumstances, I had a resurgence of intense OCD symptoms. I was on 200 milligrams of Zoloft. Since then, I've decreased to 100 milligrams of Zoloft, have begun to look over old books on therapy techniques, and my symptoms are very much under control. No doctor ever even considered lowering me below 200. If a doctor will use it as proof that lowering medication will cause problems when you do so and become depressed, they certainly have to consider this reverse situation too. Few would though.

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What is the deal with the itchy skin that I always get when I stop (or taper off) these drugs? I haven't seen itchy skin mentioned in any list of symptoms of withdrawal syndrome, but by now I am certain that it's no coincidence. I stop the dosage, my skin pays the price.

 

If that was the worst of it, I could live with it for a few months. I just don't want to slip into depression again. That is worse than death. I hate that feeling of hopelessness. But hopefully with body scan meditation, mindfulness, etc. I can do well in that regard.

 

But what is the meaning of this itchy skin? Why does it happen and why is it so rare, apparently?

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Mountainman I get itchy too..I use that beadryl spray..I've had hives so bad I went to the ER ..That was prozac. Now I get a reaction everytime I mess around with my meds..I have blisters now from the switch of gabapentin again. I guess we treat the symptoms and march on...Good luck.

C/T Celexa and Trazadone on Jan.29th 2014
Prescribed 1mg of Klonopin every 6 hours on Jan.29th
Began tapering Klonopin April 18th..stretching time between doses...at first one hour for 2 weeks then a half hour for app.10 days then another half hour 10days later.
Presently at .25 three times a day..6 2 and 10pm. Trying to stabilize.
Also still taking gabapentin 300mgs 2xs a day..

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Mountainman I get itchy too..I use that beadryl spray..I've had hives so bad I went to the ER ..That was prozac. Now I get a reaction everytime I mess around with my meds..I have blisters now from the switch of gabapentin again. I guess we treat the symptoms and march on...Good luck.

 

Flower, how long do these symptoms last for you when they happen?

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  • Administrator

The nervous system affects sensation in the skin, too.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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