Finn: Hello

[Finn]

Hi! I'm Finn. I'm new here, looking for advice on how to get off Effexor with the least amount of suffering. I want to get off because while technically I might no longer count as "depressed," I don't really feel like I've gotten my normal self back. It's like I'm numb to excitement, pleasure, other emotions and motivation. I'm just kind of existing, you know

 

I have a history of sexual and emotional abuse. I was first labeled "not normal" when I was around 12, but I managed to stay off drugs until last August. My psychiatrist told me at my first appointment with her that without meds, I would have a 98% chance of relapse. I'm not denying I have pretty chronic lows, but I am also an artist and a sensitive person, and I do not want to live like this!

 

I take 112,5mg of Effexor. I tried to go down to 75mg, but after a week and a half, I hit a wall of depression and took the 37,5mg. I didn't "taper" any slower than reducing my dose by the 37,5mg pills I have. How can I go about tapering for the least possible cost?

[Hudgens]

Hi Finn, welcome! I'm an artist too. A painter. I'm getting off of Effexor myself for several reasons, but one

of these is similar to yours-I don't like the person I've become on Effexor.

 

Anyway, someone more expert on tapering will chime in here very soon, but generally the best taper (the one with the least amount of withdrawal symptoms) is a very slow taper. No more than %10, I think they recommend here, to start with. The very best of luck to you, and I'll be keeping up with how you do. Benz

[Jemima]

Hi! I'm Finn. I'm new here, looking for advice on how to get off Effexor with the least amount of suffering. I want to get off because while technically I might no longer count as "depressed," I don't really feel like I've gotten my normal self back. It's like I'm numb to excitement, pleasure, other emotions and motivation. I'm just kind of existing, you know

Hi, Finn, and welcome to the forum. Emotional numbness is a very typical side effect from antidepressants and it takes an ungodly long time to go away. The reason for this is that antidepressants kill off some neurons in the brain and create others, a structure which is altogether artificial but thank God, not permanent. As the drug is tapered off, the brain begins to normalize again although not in a very predictable way and that's what's responsible for some of the withdrawal symptoms we've all experienced.

 

I have a history of sexual and emotional abuse. I was first labeled "not normal" when I was around 12, but I managed to stay off drugs until last August. My psychiatrist told me at my first appointment with her that without meds, I would have a 98% chance of relapse. I'm not denying I have pretty chronic lows, but I am also an artist and a sensitive person, and I do not want to live like this!

I believe your psychiatrist is ill informed. Antidepressants have been proven no more effective than a placebo.

 

I take 112,5mg of Effexor. I tried to go down to 75mg, but after a week and a half, I hit a wall of depression and took the 37,5mg. I didn't "taper" any slower than reducing my dose by the 37,5mg pills I have. How can I go about tapering for the least possible cost?

 

Here's a specific article on tapering Effexor and there are many others in the Tapering discussion that would be good to read before you plan your personal tapering strategy:

 

Tapering Effexor

 

 

Again, welcome aboard. You'll find lots of solid information here and gentle, friendly support. There are several people here tapering off Effexor including one of our moderators, so you'll have companionship on your journey, too.

[Finn]

I'm a writer. I take emotions and deep thoughts very seriously. Without feeling, my life feels hollow. I can't stress that enough. I didn't mention this is my first post, but I was originally prescribed Zoloft, which I eventually stopped taking cold turkey from 50mg because I could not tolerate the emotional numbness. I was actually on Zoloft when the doctor told me that I would need to take an antidepressant for the rest of my life because of that 98% chance of relapse I mentioned above, and I was so sad, I went to the cry, wanted to cry but could only sob a little. Have you ever tried to cry under the effects of an antidepressant? It's impossible, especially now on Effexor. But after stopping cold turkey, I got very, very emotional again and went on Effexor, which my doctor said would have less of a chance of making me so numb because it worked on two neurotransmitters. I'm probably less numb but more pathetic and passive, if that makes sense. I could probably shrug anything off right now.

 

If I reported how I'm feeling to my doctor, she'd tell me it was residual depression. At my last appointment, she gave me a prescription for a second antidepressant Lexapro because I mentioned I wasn't feeling any motivation. I never took it because I didn't want to get caught in a web of drugs; plus, I find it hard to believe any drug can return the positive to my life. At best, they're removing the negative. I don't plan on telling my psychiatrist I'm attempting to get off medication. I will just say that I am continuing as usual with the Effexor. If I get off it and get my normal feelings back, I might say something. Shhhh, I know, I know.

 

But if I'm going down by 10%, I'm going to encounter very uneven dosages. Where can I get a scale to weigh off the capsules? And does it matter that I've been on Effexor for only about 4 months?

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Finn.

 

This topic will answer your questions Tapering Effexor

 

That you've already had difficulty reducing your dosage indicates you'll need a more controlled taper.

[Finn]

Thanks everyone

 

I'm going to get a scale online, so hopefully I can start tapering in the next few weeks.

[Finn]

I think I responded differently when I reinstated the 37.5mg than I did when I was initially going up in dose. It was smooth the first time, which led me to feeling tolerably numb. In the past month, I've been restless, irritable, de-energized and demotivated. I can't be comfortable on it, and I can't just stop it. I'm so stressed, all I want to do is cry. If I don't cry soon, I think I might explode. Please, give me patience...

[Finn]

I'm officially beginning my taper today!

 

My first reduction goes as follows:

 

Starting dose: 112.5mg, 75mg and 37.5mg

10% Reduction= 101.25mg, reduction of 11.25mg

75mg stays the same, 37.5mg-11.25mg= 26.25mg (26.5/37.5=.7, so 70% of total pill weight)

36 beads in 37.mg pill, reduced by 70% = 25 beads

[Altostrata]

Sounds good. Remember there is some variation in the number of beads among the capsules.

[Finn]

I fear I may turn this into "Finn whines about Effexor side effects and withdrawal problems." The number of headaches I got in all my life before this drug combined is less than the number of headaches I've gotten since being on it. And that was a side effect; it's nothing new! I wake up in the middle of night with a bad headache (I've had a brain scan, and it was normal), and I'm dizzy and disorientated along with the pain during the day. Today I'm agitated, but it could very well be from low estrogen, not Effexor. I'm still not telling anyone (except here and my tumblr blog) that I'm tapering off, because my mom, who I live with, will say "I think you need it" or "you were calmer on the drug." Uh huh.

[Finn]

And I couldn't fall asleep until almost 4am last night.

 

I'm impatient and reckless. What will happen if I just stop taking Effexor period? Yeah, I will suffer in the short term, but will it damage my brain? Will my brain eventually recover? I imagine immediate suffering would be cleansing from all the hell this drug put me through; then I can focus on getting things back together. I'm not functioning well now anyway, so why not screw it up in hopes of improving it?

[Altostrata]

You're tapering too fast.

 

Cold turkey will cause you much, much worse problems. Don't even consider it.

[Finn]

Cold turkey will cause you much, much worse problems. Don't even consider it.

 

Too late. I've already considered it and am now doing it. I didn't take any Effexor today. It's the longest I've gone without putting this cursed drug into my system in half in a year. I am immensely dizzy. My head would be killing me, but I preemptively took headache pain reliever. I also am upping my Omega-3 intake and got some antihistamines since those can help (I'll probably use them later to sleep).

 

I'm not dumb; I know I shouldn't be playing games with my brain chemistry like this, but I didn't feel much better before I started tapering. I would rather suffer quite a lot and feel, than suffer a little and not feel, you know? Earlier before the intense dizziness set in, I felt driven, like my mind was on tunnel-vision, and I had to keep moving, but it was something. I can't take it anymore, being blunted and inactive. It was killing me too. My brain will heal.

[Altostrata]

Yes, that's usually what people think when they cold turkey. Sometimes they get over the withdrawal quickly and sometimes they don't.

 

No matter what you've been through, withdrawal can be much, much worse.

 

Please reinstate a small amount of Effexor as soon as possible.

[Finn]

I did. I'm not going slowly, but I won't just stop either.

 

I used so be better than this.

[Finn]

I took 75mg and took a nap, and I feel much better now.

[Narcissus]

Finn,

 

It is a mistake to think that by tapering quickly or going cold turkey you will recover quicker than if you were do a longer taper. In fact, it is the extreme destabilization produced by reducing the drug too quickly that tends to be long lasting. This is counter-intuitive, I know.

 

In September I was half done with my Effexor taper, and feeling sick and tired of the withdrawal process (as well as that terrible flatness you describe) I decided to speed up it up. It'll be awful, I thought, but then it'll be over. Boy was I wrong. In rushing through my taper I destabilized myself so thoroughly that I had to go back on the drug, and I'm still sick 6 months later. Had I gone slower I'd be nearly off by now, and probably in much better shape. So please, do yourself a favor and do a slow taper. Don't think that there's a way to quickly get through the process, because there isn't.

 

I hear the urgency in your posts and I recognize it. I understand also your frustration at being locked away from your emotions. Many of us here are sensitive and rely implicitly on our feelings to make sense of things. That's probably why we were medicated in the first place. Have some faith that your feelings will return to you, but understand that there isn't a way to recover them quickly. Destabilizing yourself will not dispel the numbness that you find so intolerable, it will only add an anxious edge to it. Try to imagine a sort of frenetic numbness lasting for months at a time. It's horrific.

 

Slow and steady my friend.

[Finn]

I hear the urgency in your posts and I recognize it. I understand also your frustration at being locked away from your emotions. Many of us here are sensitive and rely implicitly on our feelings to make sense of things. That's probably why we were medicated in the first place. Have some faith that your feelings will return to you, but understand that there isn't a way to recover them quickly. Destabilizing yourself will not dispel the numbness that you find so intolerable, it will only add an anxious edge to it. Try to imagine a sort of frenetic numbness lasting for months at a time. It's horrific.

 

Slow and steady my friend.

 

Thank you for your kind words. It means a lot to me, really.

 

I am very sensitive, and I was hoping my feelings would just come back...In reality, I don't know if I'm ready for them, you know. I've become numb to my own coping, thinking and growing, my inner strengths and understanding of who I am and what I want. It's like I lost myself, truly, but that honestly started with the depression, not the medication. I, as a human with passions and goals, have some things I need to work on in my life. Feeling better is more complicated than getting off any drug. It's like...last year I responded to my depression and obsessive thoughts the wrong way, and now I need to do it the right way...

 

I'm still taking 75mg and taking Omega-3, vitamin e and NAC. I was having trouble falling and staying asleep, but emotionally, I was actually feeling pretty good today. I'm not going to mess with the dose for a while. Next week, I'm going to my psychiatrist, and I'll be honest with her--no lies about taking it when I'm not.

[Finn]

How normal is irritability during discontinuation? Like everything bothers me, and I don't want to be bothered by anything. I feel (as much as I can feel) like a real jerk.

[Jemima]

Irritability is typical of withdrawal, and by that I mean typical for those who get off the drugs too fast. For me, a lot of it occurred in the early stages of withdrawal when my cortisol levels were high and bright light just drove me up the wall (although I didn't know the cause at that time). I would fly into rages over really small upsets and that went on for several months.

 

Speaking as someone who tapered too fast, I have to warn you that getting off the drugs as quickly as possible is not going to bring your feelings back. The numbness is due to structural changes the antidepressants make in the brain and those changes remain with or without the drug. Discontinuing the drug only serves to jar your central nervous system and give your brain no support at all as it tries to normalize. This is where a great deal of the pain of withdrawal comes from. You will still be numb until the structural changes in your brain normalize and heal, which they can do more quickly in a slow, supportive taper than cold turkey or a very quick taper. I have been off Lexapro for sixteen months and am still having difficulty with emotional numbness.

[Finn]

Speaking as someone who tapered too fast, I have to warn you that getting off the drugs as quickly as possible is not going to bring your feelings back. The numbness is due to structural changes the antidepressants make in the brain and those changes remain with or without the drug. Discontinuing the drug only serves to jar your central nervous system and give your brain no support at all as it tries to normalize. This is where a great deal of the pain of withdrawal comes from. You will still be numb until the structural changes in your brain normalize and heal, which they can do more quickly in a slow, supportive taper than cold turkey or a very quick taper. I have been off Lexapro for sixteen months and am still having difficulty with emotional numbness.

 

Structural changes? What a load of crap! I am giving my psychiatric an ear-full on Tuesday (and then she'll probably try to lock me up for being agitated and angry...la la la). I'm supposed to wait another year and a half to cry and enjoy stuff again? I repeat: How is this supposed to be treatment?

[Jemima]

 

Speaking as someone who tapered too fast, I have to warn you that getting off the drugs as quickly as possible is not going to bring your feelings back. The numbness is due to structural changes the antidepressants make in the brain and those changes remain with or without the drug. Discontinuing the drug only serves to jar your central nervous system and give your brain no support at all as it tries to normalize. This is where a great deal of the pain of withdrawal comes from. You will still be numb until the structural changes in your brain normalize and heal, which they can do more quickly in a slow, supportive taper than cold turkey or a very quick taper. I have been off Lexapro for sixteen months and am still having difficulty with emotional numbness.

 

Structural changes? What a load of crap! I am giving my psychiatric an ear-full on Tuesday (and then she'll probably try to lock me up for being agitated and angry...la la la). I'm supposed to wait another year and a half to cry and enjoy stuff again? I repeat: How is this supposed to be treatment?

 

Please play nice. These doctors really do have the legal ability to have you locked up and medicated with whatever they choose. Seriously, please don't flip out at your shrink. It's asking for trouble.

 

What has happened to you has happened to many, many of us. We are angry, too. Acting like a nutcase does not help, however.

[Altostrata]

Second what Jemima says!

 

Any display of emotion -- anger, outrage, weeping, yelling, sarcasm, etc. -- will be interpreted by the doctor as mental illness. Say whatever you have to say in a very calm voice, with a pleasant expression.

[Finn]

Thanks, thanks, I know. I'm trying to avoid telling people what I'm doing to get around any opportunity to have any sign of emotion passed off as a symptom of mental illness. Anyway, I'm a lot more bold and confrontation in my head than I am in person (at least normally I am). I'm going to say I had enough with Effexor because I don't like how I feel on it. I will be firm. My doctor listens, and while I disagree on my treatment, I respect that she cares that I, as her patient, don't end up very depressed again.

 

I woke up ridiculously dizzy this morning--like surges of disorientation dizzy. I managed to go to the gym, but then I came home, slept for a few hours and have been ridiculously tired since then. I feel more spaced out and tired now than agitated. It's been about a week at 75mg, so hoping to get through this misery.

[Finn]

I was actually quite taken aback when my psychiatrist believed without any argument that Effexor was making me numb and unmotivated. She was perfectly fine with me wanting to get off it. Of course, her plan for me getting off was two weeks at 75mg and two weeks at 37.5mg, and she was surprised that I complained of withdrawal symptoms with such a small decrease as 37.5mg. lol. I think I know better.

 

Remember she originally told me that with any medication, my depression would almost certainly return, which scares me too, enough that I was willing to listen to her next treatment idea, despite the hell Effexor has put me through. She gave me a prescription for Welbutrin because it wouldn't make me flat like Effexor and Zoloft did. She even told me I could take it while getting off Effexor. I said I didn't know what I was going to do, that I was going to get off Effexor and see how I felt.

[flower]

Finn,my friend was put on Wellbutrin,spelling?, She hid in her room for 2 months because of the anxiety it brought on..Be careful.Maybe that won't happen to you but they say here ,it is stimulating..She is now titrating over to Cymbalta.

[Altostrata]

I suggest you get off Effexor safely and completely, then look into non-drug methods to deal with your emotional state.

 

Don't look for your solution in a drug, they all have huge drawbacks.

[Finn]

I want to be able to go drug free. While I do feel tempted to try Welbutrin because to see if it will improve my quality of life beyond what I've previous experience, I don't want to set myself up for more long-term pain. I don't want to do any long-term damage to my brain or hamper my ability to experience life, you know?

 

I plan on staying on 75mg of Effexor for another two weeks. I'm currently still experiencing fatigue, headaches and a general not-well feeling, so I'll wait until it gets better before shocking the brain again. The numbness has subsided some so it is almost tolerable now. I should have enough patience to wait out a slow taper of 10% so I can get off safely without this much more suffering. The withdrawal will get worse the lower the dose, right?

[Jemima]

I want to be able to go drug free. While I do feel tempted to try Welbutrin because to see if it will improve my quality of life beyond what I've previous experience, I don't want to set myself up for more long-term pain. I don't want to do any long-term damage to my brain or hamper my ability to experience life, you know?

 

Wellbutrin has its own set of problems. As Alto said, drug-free solutions for depression and anxiety are the best way to go.

 

I plan on staying on 75mg of Effexor for another two weeks. I'm currently still experiencing fatigue, headaches and a general not-well feeling, so I'll wait until it gets better before shocking the brain again. The numbness has subsided some so it is almost tolerable now. I should have enough patience to wait out a slow taper of 10% so I can get off safely without this much more suffering. The withdrawal will get worse the lower the dose, right?

 

If you taper off slowly enough, there shouldn't be any withdrawal symptoms, or very few which are easily remedied by a slight updose and a stabilization period. A taper that's too fast is what causes withdrawal symptoms.

 

I advise you not to make plans to stay on 75 mg. of Effexor for another two weeks or any other specific time period. Wait and see how you feel. Effexor is a drug that's been known to come back and bite hard up to five months after a too fast taper or cold turkey, so it's best to take it slowly and carefully. Otherwise you can end up in the chemical version of a multi-car pile-up when a series of medication decreases all catch up.

 

I think you'll be feeling a lot better when you get stabilized at your present dose of Effexor and won't be so eager to get off so fast. Remember, it's the structural changes in the brain that cause problems, so there's no sense at all in rushing to get off the drug.

[Finn]

I did taper too fast, which I can assume is what caused this suffering. Luckily, my life is pretty calm now so I have time to take it easy and sleep. I'll play it by ear with further reductions then. It's been two weeks since I went from 112.5mg to 75mg. If and when I stabilize, should I wait longer. It'll be the 10% reduction, as recommended.

 

Thanks for the support!

[Jemima]

There's really no way to tell in advance how long it will take to stabilize at a particular dose. Tapering depends very much on listening to one's body and going ahead slowly and cautiously. The only way to taper is to take it one day at a time.

[Finn]

This is unrelated but...you know...it feels like my thoughts are muffled, distant from the locus of my consciousness. They're aren't as intense. It's disheartening and frustrating, and part of me worried, it isn't the medication. And I wait for the day when my head stops hurting so dang much.

[Narcissus]

Finn, I think it is most likely the medication. Personally I would not suggest taking another drug, it will not help you recover the sensitivity you describe. Also, you'll continue to be in the predicament of not knowing which experiences are genuine and which are effects of the medication. It's not a good place to be.

[Finn]

When I was on Zoloft last year, I got jittery and restless from 150mg. I can imagine Wellbutrin would have a similar effect, and I'm really striving for a calm and thoughtful mindset. It takes both feeling okay and time to cultivate such a state of mind. I can't see any drug triggering it.

 

Today, I have a headache (as per the norm!, and after being gone for a while, the agitation is back--although, I might just be frustrated at myself for spending my days not being too terribly productive and another person who literally has no sense of boundaries and no ability to take my perspective.

[Altostrata]

Whoa! You expect a lot from yourself.

 

Even yogis have to work every minute at cultivating a "calm and thoughtful mindset." Feeling okay is not a prerequisite. You can help yourself by doing it now and not being hard on yourself if you manage only bits and pieces.

 

When you're having problems from withdrawal, you often have to learn to accept what you can and cannot do. This is a painful wisdom. Again, beating yourself up for your shortcomings is not self-nurturing -- accept yourself to take care of yourself.

 

It's likely your thoughts being muffled and lacking focus are a result of the drugs. Emotional anesthesia and demotivation are common side effects.

[Finn]

And today, I have the dull, aching headache and waves of dizziness. At the same time, I'm starting to get energy back, but lots of energy coupled with dizziness is potentially deadly. I'll probably mosey my way over to the gym anyway--maybe stop to see if I can get some OTC anti-dizzy/nausea medicine. #whiningwhiningwhining

 

On the topic of losing motivation...even in the worst of my depression when I was totally convinced I was losing my mind, I had enough sense to apply for the internship position I had long wanted and could hold it together enough to get it. I started the first anti-depressant at the same time I started that job. I thought I needed it, but now I am so anger that I ever agreed to it. For years, I swore off ads, and now I know I was right!!! I might be perfectly fine now if I had let my life sort itself out. Instead, after that position ended, I fell into a "I'm not doing anything, but I don't really care" mentality (and well, my time, emotions and attention was consumed by extensive family dramas).

 

It's been three weeks! I mean, yeah, perhaps I don't practice the best self-care. I consume lots of caffeine and sugar, but isn't enough enough? Maybe, I should call my psychiatrist and tell her I'm really suffering from Effexor withdrawal. She knows I'm trying to get off it and agreed with the decision so maybe she could help? IF ANYTHING CAN HELP! Some people don't recover from the damage done by anti-depressants, right? Their little Serotonin receptors never grow back. Come on, neurons, I believe in you!