Finn: Hello

[Finn]

I went down 6mg. It's around a 16% reduction so a bit more than the recommended, but it's a dose I feel like I'm making progress at. I'll sit at 31mg until I feel stabilized so as to not cause myself any worse problems.

 

Right now, I am still feeling run down, exhausted, irritable, etc. It's mostly hormonal. I really think a lot of my symptoms arise from the fact that Effexor wrecked so much havoc on my endocrine system. I just got to hang in there until things get better...

[Finn]

Well, for now, the worst of the headache has gone away, but I am noticing some persistant anxiety--not anxiety where I can't calm down, just like this nagging feeling that something awful could happen at anytime. Could withdrawal make something like obsession thinking worse? Because I've been noticing that too. The cautious from thinking something bad could happen, combined with spaciness is making me feel really weird--not properly grounded.

[Finn]

I only held for three weeks and a couple days, but I went down three mg (roughly 10%) this time. I haven't noticed any bad headaches yet; although, I have had a cold so I have felt kind of miserable regardless.

 

The feeling of surrealness is really bothersome, though, and it comes it waves--like something will happen, and I will get a surge of feeling either "what?" or "did that really happen?" If that makes any sense...Also, I notice at times, anxiety and obsessive thoughts have become relatively bad.

[Rhiannon]

Everything you are describing sounds like normal withdrawal to me. Anxiety, obsessive thoughts, doom and gloom thinking, spaciness, derealization, all fairly normal.

 

If it were me experiencing those things I would stop and hold for a good long while until I felt better and more normal again. I tend to think that when I'm having symptoms it's because my brain needs to catch up with the cuts I've made, and when I'm feeling better again it's because my brain chemistry is balanced again and I've adapted to the new lower dose I'm on.  I try not to cut until I've felt pretty good for at least a week or two.

[Finn]

Everything you are describing sounds like normal withdrawal to me. Anxiety, obsessive thoughts, doom and gloom thinking, spaciness, derealization, all fairly normal.

 

 

There's are some of the same symptoms I had pre-antidepressant, though, that made me take it in the first place, so it is alarming to encounter them again coming off it.

[Finn]

Is there a correlation between using your mind/ emotions and a worsening of withdrawal symptoms? A few days ago, I was quite excited about something, and after about an hour of that, I ended up with a bad headache. Plus, in general, it seems like my endurance for thinking is down.

 

Also, has anoyone esle experience something similar: I don't really get brain zaps per say, not in the sense that it feel like electricity zapping through my brain. But I do get moments (less than a minute) where it feels like someone is screaming in my head--like my brain gets noisey, but there's no actual noise, like brain static. I've gotten this maybe a half dozen times--twice when I was first starting on Effexor, once or twice when I was late with a dose and a few times in withdrawal. Is this any cause for concern?

[Altostrata]

Sounds like some kind of brain zap to me. A brain zap is a momentary electrical disturbance.

 

If you got excited, you might have triggered some adrenaline, which can worsen withdrawal symptoms.

[Finn]

Dunno how things are going for me. I think I am at a point where I need a long hold. I've been going down by 3mg, every 3 weeks. For a while I was functioning pretty well--feeling okay (like neither good or bad), experiencing some motivation to get stuff done and even being excited at times (not deep excitement, just general excitation). But this past week or week in a half, I've been getting steadily worse. I feel unmotivated, totally apathetic, blank, hopeless. I've been getting frustrated and irritated much too easily. Of course, I get the usual headaches too, but they've become less bothersome than the emotional stuff.

[Karma]

I concur Finn ... those are the symptoms that we need to watch for.  That is why I log my symptoms daily so that I can tell when I'm starting to see these symptoms creep in and that is my indication to hold for some period of time.

 

You may do yourself a favor by giving yourself a bit of a hold at least 4 weeks and maybe 6 to see if these symptoms subside.  Earlier this year I held for 3-4 months and I really felt great at the end of that hold.  I am currently looking at possibly a six week hold.  Effexor can sneak up on you.

 

Let us know what you decide and how you are doing.

 

Karma

[Altostrata]

How much Zoloft are you taking now, Finn?

[Finn]

^ I stopped all Zoloft cold turky a year ago, so none.

 

Things kind of changed. I realized that I didn't have any refills on the Effexor prescription. The prescribing doctor gave me like three refills, saying that should enough to get off. I was insistent that I didn't want any other drug, but she at the time wanted me to try Wellbutrin, so she won't be giving me more Effexor. I was feeling so low that I considered going onto another drug, which would have been Wellbutrin. Since I realized I still would have had a problem with withdrawal, I decided to try 5-THP (around the same time I also started a Choline supp. since somewhere on the internet I read it helped withdrawal). Yeah, I took 5-THP when I was still taking 20mg of Effexor. Oh well. By the evening of that day, I felt human. It was very werid; it's been over a year since I felt human...I then decided I was going to continue taking that and stop Effexor after taking the remaining 7 capsules, so I went like 15, 15, 10, 10, 5, 5 and 2.5mg. Of course somewhere in that week, I stopped feeling human, but the withdrawal has been no where near as awful as previous decreases has been. I have the usual, basically what I said in my last post plus fatigue, headaches and periods of shakiness. If this continues to be tolerable, I am going to continue and not take Effexor again. I know it will still take a long for my brain to recover, but I'll see...

[Finn]

Today will be the first day where I actually don't take any Effexor. We'll see what happens...

[alex]

Congratulations!! and GOOD LUCK!!

[Finn]

Congratulations!! and GOOD LUCK!!

 

Ah, thank. It wasn't how I planned on things going, but it seems like this is how it is.

 

I might describe how I am feeling now as like being drunk...waves of dizziness (often bad), mind racing/ in a state of general excitation, head spinning. I suppose I'm still pretty flat, but since I feel excited and/or agitated, I'm mistaking the flatness for excitement, if that makes sense. I might also describe it as something stepping on my brain, making it hurt, me senstive and not very insightful.

[Finn]

Day 2: I am so immensely dizzy. I went to work, and for the first hour or two I was dealing with bad waves of dizziness, disorientation and nausea. I mean, emotionally I was fine, but the dizziness and general queasiness was awful. It gets better after taking the 5-HTP, though.

[Narcissus]

Finn, why take all this time to taper and then jump off at the end?  Anecdotal evidence here suggests that it's toward the end that you really need to be careful.  I understand that you may have to take some steps to get a new prescription, but I think it should be well worth the effort.  Consider calling a few psychiatrists and leaving them a message explaining your situation. You can say that you want to slowly taper off Effexor and need someone to write you prescriptions as you do so.  This worked for me and required little effort.  You're taking an awfully big risk here and without any very compelling reason for doing so.

 

Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best and hope you continue to check in with us.

[Finn]

Finn, why take all this time to taper and then jump off at the end?

 

 

That's a good question. I guess the thought of being off was too good a thought to not try. And running out seemed like as good a sign I should try as any.

 

For the record, some of the earlier 10% drops caused withdrawal symptoms way more awful than this, but I am scared. I don't know what day three will bring-- if it will be as bad or worse, or get better. It has to get better with time; every time I dropped in the past, I starting feeling better after two-three weeks. Shouldn't that happen this time?

 

I can try to have the pharmacy call my doctor for me. Maybe if I don't specifically remind her what I'm doing, she'll just do it.

[Altostrata]

Finn, if you can avoid withdrawal symptoms -- which you are experiencing -- you should. They may get worse and last a long time.

 

This may be a good time to switch to regular Effexor twice a day. You can make it into a liquid for gradual tapering.

[Narcissus]

 

 

It has to get better with time; every time I dropped in the past, I starting feeling better after two-three weeks. Shouldn't that happen this time?

Perhaps, perhaps not.  I don't see why a sudden jump wouldn't alter the pattern of withdrawal overall.  

 

If you feel as if you have to trick your psychiatrist into getting a refill you should just find another one, otherwise you'll be in the same boat next time you run out.

[Finn]

If you feel as if you have to trick your psychiatrist into getting a refill you should just find another one, otherwise you'll be in the same boat next time you run out.

 

 

It isn't tricking my doctor as much as cutting out the work of the middleman, i.e. me. See, I don't want to go back to the psychiatrist. She'll tell me I should be on some medication or doing something for my illness or else it will return, and I will be reminded of and feel bad things. I know. I'm whiney and shouldn't say "but i don't want to...*pouts*" when it comes to my health...

 

Finn, if you can avoid withdrawal symptoms -- which you are experiencing -- you should. They may get worse and last a long time.

 

 

I am definitely experiencing withdrawal symptoms, but I have from the start. It was hell when I started on the drug, it was sickeningly blissful apathy when I was on it and it has been hell trying to get off it. How will I really know if it is better to take some dose again and taper slowly or just leave it as it is? I can't really! Today was day 3 off, and I had much less dizziness. I mean my mind is all jumbled, and I'm easily frustrated or irritated. I can't think right, etc. But I don't know how much is me and how much would be improved if I took the drug again.

 

Maybe I feel jittery and dizzy, but at least I feel somewhat alive.

[Altostrata]

Any MD can write the prescription. You don't need to see a psychiatrist to get one.

[Jemima]

If I were you, I'd go right back on 21 mg. of Effexor.  Effexor is notorious for delayed withdrawal so I would guess that things are only going to get a lot worse.  Jumping off from 21 mg. is just too big a leap for anyone.

[Narcissus]

Any MD can write the prescription. You don't need to see a psychiatrist to get one.

 

Right, I tend to forget this.

[Finn]

I went out of the town over the weekend (to Homecoming at our University) with some friends, and I felt pretty good most of the time. I was almost calm and comfortable for a while there. I was able to laugh and sort of enjoy things.

 

The waves of dizziness aren't anywhere near as frequent or severe if I take 5-HTP every six hours or so. I didn't sleep that well--like off. I'm going to wait and see what happens.

[Finn]

Today marked a week without any Effexor. I feel somewhat anxious and have spells of jitteriness, and there is still some trouble focusing. Of course, I am disappointed that I am yet to regain my ability to say cry or feel, think and focus intently. I know both me and my brain have a long road of healing ahead...

 

I'm slightly confused about what supplements I should be taking right now and what might be making things worse. As it says in my signature, I am taking Omega-3, NAC and vitamin C, but I also less regularly will take Rhodiola (since I've heard it lowers cortisol) and I've been taking 5-HTP. Is any of that hurting me?

[Altostrata]

You need to keep everything constant, add one thing at a time, to see if it affects you one way or the other. If you keep on changing a bunch of things at once, you won't know which is causing bad effects, if you're getting them.

[Finn]

So, should I like try to stick with taking certain supplements at set times during the day? This might be hard for me because I don't always have a consistent schedule, but I'll see what I can do. I usually take NAC before bed and sometime in the morning, I do rhodiola and 5-HTP before noon too in case they're stimulating, but everything else is whenever I remember and happen to have water or something else to drink within reach.

[Altostrata]

Yes, keep all constant, with constant dosages. Only vary one thing at a time so you can see what it does.

 

Quite often, people find 5-HTP and rhodiola too activating, but we're all different, so they might be fine for you. You won't know unless you take them in a consistent way.

 

For example, after you've taken them both together for a week, you might try leaving out the rhodiola and see if symptoms diminish or get worse. Then you'll know what it does.

[Finn]

Thanks!

 

It seems I felt better in the first week after stopping than I do now. I am back in the place where I feel like my mind and emotions are mostly blank, and I'm filled with apathy and a general sense of sadness about the world. Plus, I just feel out of it, and the headache seems to be back at least today (although, it could be the weather. We have trying weather in Chicago--that makes my sinuses very sad).

 

I've been spending more time with people lately (friends and interacting more with co-workers, etc), and it's become so clear how having no emotional reaction/ emotions has damaged my ability to connect and socialize. When I spent a lot of time alone, I knew I was numb and apathetic, but only when I see how I act and feel now in relation to how I used to do I see how much I relied on emotions and how much Effexor really hurt me and my sense of self.

[alex]

Hello Finn; how long have you been without AD?

[Finn]

Hello Finn; how long have you been without AD?

 

10 days.

[Finn]

I'm going to whine again, and you can all think that I deserve this for what I did...In my mind, I am really, really freaking out about how I am feeling, but at the same time, I can't be so awful because at least I have been able to go to work and otherwise live. It's like it is just that I feel so off and I cannot really convey it to anyone, but maybe somewhere within me there's a little spark that feels okay. Ah, I'm just a mess. I'm starting to think maybe I've just gone insane, that I've always been going insane, and this is just it coming out.

 

I feel now like I'm experiencing disassociation, especially in relation to social situations. Someone will be talking to me or asking me something (like a customer at work), and I'll zone out and not be too focused. In my mind, I'll be picturing the situation as in the third person, and I frequently feel like there's a gap between me and the world--like surrealness but combined with depersonalization. Then I'll be doing something that comes naturally (like say driving), and randomly for a moment, what I'm doing doesn't make sense. I really feel like I'm slipping into a state of complete blankness. Also, I think I'm getting brain zaps, I don't enjoy much of anything, eating makes me queasy.

 

What do I do? I'm scared that I'll lose the little control and insight I have, which is the only thing anchoring me to reality. Without it, my mind would be blank but still agitated and excited. my mind feels blank and overly excited at the same time-like something is jumping around in it. Thus, I feel like I'm losing my mind. I wasn't feeling this bad last week or two weeks ago.

[Narcissus]

 

 

you can all think that I deserve this for what I did

 

I don't think that many of us here have this punitive kind of thinking.  We're just worried about you!  

 

Please consider reinstating and resuming your taper, it's only been a week and a half and things might very well continue to get worse.  What was the last dose you were at before you jumped off?

[Petunia]

If I were you, I'd go right back on 21 mg. of Effexor.  Effexor is notorious for delayed withdrawal so I would guess that things are only going to get a lot worse.  Jumping off from 21 mg. is just too big a leap for anyone.

 

I agree with Jemima and Narcissus, if symptoms are getting worse, not better, then its impossible to know how bad its going to become.  You may have been able to work up until now, but it seems like its becoming increasingly more difficult for you to function.

 

Reinstatement woks best the sooner you do it.

 

Perhaps you could try 10mg and see if your symptoms subside.  It may take a few weeks before you start to feel better though.

 

Please let us know what you decide to do and keep us updated.

[Finn]

I don't think that many of us here have this punitive kind of thinking.  We're just worried about you!

 

Well, I have that punitive thinking. 

 

Please consider reinstating and resuming your taper, it's only been a week and a half and things might very well continue to get worse.  What was the last dose you were at before you jumped off?

 

 

I was at 21mg, then went to 15mg for two days, then 10mg for two days, 5mg for two days and then 2.5mg to 0mg. That was two weeks ago tomorrow. I'm hesitant to reinstate because I remember when I first went on Effexor, I was having horrible headaches, and I don't want to put myself through acute pain, only to be dooming myself to more long-term struggle. If I have to suffer, I'd rather suffer without ingesting the drug. When I made prior decreases, I started to feel better after like three weeks, so maybe I'll see how I feel next week.

 

Whether I feel better or worse fluctuates. Right now I feel really depressed, like the world is collapsing around me. Earlier, at work, I was fairly alright; last night, I was freaking out. Yeah, I'm a mess. I feel like I should really, really try to go to therapy. I seem completely unable to help myself out of my current situation, and I really need a supportive, understanding person in my life. But I've been to therapists,and they didn't really help me--only one who I saw maybe for two months right before I graduated college (I was depressed at that time because I knew bad things were going to happen when I had to leave the only place I ever felt truly alive and human--which in retrospect was a brilliant call on my part). I wish I could find someone who could help me.

[Lexy]

Finn

 

Hope you get better soon.

When I first tried to get off this med I cut 50% (150 to 75mg) off I did feel better for a few days, but then I was bedridden for the next 3 months. My Mother kept telling me to go back to 100mg and start from there. But I was so scared of how this drug was making me feel high anxiety 24/7. I was put on this drug for anxiety in the first place. At least at 75 I wasn't feeling the anxiety.

 

I know what you mean about the acute pain.

 

I am getting horrible headaches now that I'm trying to taper off. It's so bad, I've had it for months now.

How did your headaches.

 

We are here to support you and your decisions. Hopefully you will feel better in the coming weeks. Keep us posted. I will be so happy for you to hear you are off this evil drug.