Finn: Hello

[btdt]

I only really know about drug induced depression I have been drugged most of my adult life till the last 7 years so I can't really speak to institutional depression so severe to require medication without a previous medication having been the cause of you needing another medication... lol ya that is is clear as mud... 

 

The severe depression I have known came after taking ssri drugs and snri drugs  either as a reaction/ withdrawal....so i can't speak to what I don't know hence too the stab in the dark on the previous post. 

 

yes i always will think depression is caused by some drug already ingested yes I know people have it who are not low on b12 or other things and not caused by a drug. 

Just saying ruling out the drugs first is the easiest way to start. Easiest to fix too. 

[btdt]

I am assuming you have tools already for "anxious and restless" feelings .. glad the headache is gone is it gone?

[Altostrata]

Low B12 can indeed be a problem in neurological healing. We see a lot of people here who've been on stomach acid blockers (almost always unnecessarily) and whose B12 may be depleted.

[Finn]

I am assuming you have tools already for "anxious and restless" feelings .. glad the headache is gone is it gone?

The headache comes in and out. It isn't as blatantly bad, but it is still nagging in the background. I really don't have tools for dealing with this restlessness. It seems like nothing really calms me down. I feel totally overwhelmed and unable to think straight or deal. I just tolerate the feeling and hope it comes away with time.

 

I've had a B12 test, and I guess it was normal, but at times I've taken the supplement.

[Barbarannamated]

Great news about the GRE, Finn!

[Nikki]

Finn I get restless or what is another word, 'wired' when I take supplements especially the multi vits. I get bad dreams from any of the omega's.

 

Nikki.....just a thought

[btdt]

 

I am assuming you have tools already for "anxious and restless" feelings .. glad the headache is gone is it gone?

The headache comes in and out. It isn't as blatantly bad, but it is still nagging in the background. I really don't have tools for dealing with this restlessness. It seems like nothing really calms me down. I feel totally overwhelmed and unable to think straight or deal. I just tolerate the feeling and hope it comes away with time.

 

I've had a B12 test, and I guess it was normal, but at times I've taken the supplement.

 

Here are some things I have found useful.

Too restless and have energy walk in nature by the beach if your close or in the forest or park whatever you have... for severe restlessness where I could not sit still if I tried extensively long fast walks.. you will eventually walk off some of your energy.   Head phones with the sound of the ocean or other white noise or music without words if you can tolerate it.  I had to work up to music for a very long time only white noise was tolerable... rain no thunder wind in leaves and the ocean waves...no birds whales or other sounds.  

Bad weather or don't want to walk choices ....

Epson salt baths I can't tolerate magnesium but I can get in the bath tub thru my skin helps with head aches sometimes and other muscle pain issues. 

Cold pack on my neck head is my best headache solution coffee next with an advil 100mg only. 

Heat to the spine I have learned in my travels will increase noripinephrine and for some reason heat on my spine cold pack on my neck seems to confuse pain nerves don't know why... add head phone with the ocean deep relaxation ... created for me a healing state the  first I had known since withdrawal started. 

I found a cheap dvd called yoga in bed I use that sometimes too but not for the hard cord restlessness of early withdrawal... I don't think it would work. 

 

If your able I hear exercise is good the harder the better. 

 

would not hurt to check that b12 again 

 

peace to you... hope some of this helps. 

[btdt]

I just read a comment from Alto that 

" vitamin C, phosphatidyl serine, or aspirin tend to reduce the overcharged feeling." 

I am not sure if this is the same as restlessness or not but if nothing else works you may want to try some vit C I would not advise the asprin with Effexor... to risky. i don't know what phosphatidyl serine it has some food sources found here... most foods that have a negligible amount I have never eaten... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphatidylserine

 

I am all for food sources for all vitamins mostly because of reactions. 

[Altostrata]

 

I am assuming you have tools already for "anxious and restless" feelings .. glad the headache is gone is it gone?

The headache comes in and out. It isn't as blatantly bad, but it is still nagging in the background. I really don't have tools for dealing with this restlessness. It seems like nothing really calms me down. I feel totally overwhelmed and unable to think straight or deal. I just tolerate the feeling and hope it comes away with time.

 

I've had a B12 test, and I guess it was normal, but at times I've taken the supplement.

 

 

Finn, magnesium glycinate can help with headaches, too. See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

[Finn]

Wait, why aren't I supposed to take aspirin with Effexor? I just took aspirin this afternoon for the headache caused by the Effexor. I usually take ibuprofen, but when that doesn't work for the headaches, I will take the migraine formula, which is tylenol and aspirin and caffiene. This doesn't always help either, if you see the trend here...I have taken an insane quanity of otc pain medication in this past year due to the headaches Effexor has caused. I cannot stress enough that before these ads, I barely got headaches ever!

 

It's really random how I feel each day. Yesterday morning I felt really down, but this morning, I was more focused and positive. Tomorrow my head hurts, and I'm spacey. Who knows what will happen (this scares me a lot)?

 

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

[Altostrata]

I have no idea why you can't take aspirin with Effexor.

[Barbarannamated]

I have no idea why you can't take aspirin with Effexor.

I wondered the same and thought it may have to do with blood thinking properties or effect on platelets. Just a guess.

[btdt]

Patients should be cautioned about the risk of bleeding associated with the concomitant use of Effexor and NSAIDs, aspirin, or other drugs that affectcoagulation.

 

Warning for Effexor under the Abnormal Bleeding section 

 

http://www.rxlist.com/effexor-drug/warnings-precautions.htm

 

It does not matter which site you look at this warning should be on all of them. 

 

"

Abnormal Bleeding

SSRIs and SNRIs, including Effexor, may increase the risk of bleeding events. Concomitant use of aspirin, nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, warfarin, and other anti-coagulants may add to this risk. Case reports and epidemiological studies (case-control and cohort design) have demonstrated an association between use of drugs that interfere with serotonin reuptake and the occurrence of gastrointestinal bleeding. Bleeding events related to SSRIs and SNRIs use have ranged from ecchymoses, hematomas, epistaxis, and petechiae to life-threatening hemorrhages.

Patients should be cautioned about the risk of bleeding associated with the concomitant use of Effexor and NSAIDs, aspirin, or other drugs that affectcoagulation."

 

I had a gastro bleed. 

[Altostrata]

An occasional aspirin or other NSAID should not be a problem. That warning is for people who are taking NSAIDs chronically, usually at high dosages.

[btdt]

I have no idea why you can't take aspirin with Effexor.

You may not recall this Alto but I lost person dear to me just before I joined pp in 2008 he had been on celexa one wk... had a bad headache all that wk was taking asprin to treat it... he died of a massive brain hemorrhage I was there for it.  This has left an large enough impression my me that I will never forget this warning.  Tho all the people at pp at the time did not believe it was just from asprin and the ssri... all ssri and snri I believe carry this same warnings.  My gastro bleed was long before this and I did not know it could be caused by drugs had other signs too bleeding gums periods that never ended heavy... or way too often... bruising. Just before I finally crumpled I had a bruise on my chest under the breast area... a large one.. the clinic doctor I seen about it said I needed to be more careful I must have bumped it on something... think it was part of it all.. that and the pancreatic I had I think it was all drug related and signs I was crashing my body was screaming out and nobody was listening ... all these things by themselves are common every day things a head ache... a bruise... ect... even if you finally start to listen getting a doctor to list seems to be an uphill battle. 

[Finn]

Oh btdt, I am so sorry to hear *hug*

 

I think they warn people about stomach bleeding and nsaids even if they aren't on ssri/nis, and they tell peple to who have stomach problems to avoid them.

 

So, last night, my headache was so awful, I took Fioricet, which is Butalbital/Acetaminophen/Caffeine, (I may or may not have taken a prescription drug that was for someone else), and it killed the pain, like nothing else has before--not even the otc headache meds. Thanks to that drug, after a nap, I was actually calm and not in pain, so I was able to read for a while.

[btdt]

An occasional aspirin or other NSAID should not be a problem. That warning is for people who are taking NSAIDs chronically, usually at high dosages.

I am watched my friend die from taking the combination of asprin and celexa... why would you suggest it is is ok to take these together.. 

the warning does not say this "s for people who are taking NSAIDs chronically, usually at high dosages." it says "SSRIs and SNRIs, including Effexor, may increase the risk of bleeding events. Concomitant use of aspirin, " 

 

I generally respect your opinion and it may not be every one who takes an apsirin and srri/snri will have a stroke or gastro bleed but some will... 

can you risk saying this is ok?  I can't. 

Do you think pharma puts warning in there advertising if they don't have to if there were not a risk they would not mention it. 

[btdt]

Oh btdt, I am so sorry to hear *hug*

 

I think they warn people about stomach bleeding and nsaids even if they aren't on ssri/nis, and they tell peple to who have stomach problems to avoid them.

 

So, last night, my headache was so awful, I took Fioricet, which is Butalbital/Acetaminophen/Caffeine, (I may or may not have taken a prescription drug that was for someone else), and it killed the pain, like nothing else has before--not even the otc headache meds. Thanks to that drug, after a nap, I was actually calm and not in pain, so I was able to read for a while.

Butalbital is a barbiturate

Used I know for seizures is addictive and so of course you slept a lot of different drugs will get you to sleep there will be withdrawal from some of them after as short a time as 7 days continuous use... of course the protracted  withdrawal they cause will require you to take them longer than that. 

[btdt]

Oh btdt, I am so sorry to hear *hug*

 

I think they warn people about stomach bleeding and nsaids even if they aren't on ssri/nis, and they tell peple to who have stomach problems to avoid them.

 

So, last night, my headache was so awful, I took Fioricet, which is Butalbital/Acetaminophen/Caffeine, (I may or may not have taken a prescription drug that was for someone else), and it killed the pain, like nothing else has before--not even the otc headache meds. Thanks to that drug, after a nap, I was actually calm and not in pain, so I was able to read for a while.

Being there when he died was a horrific experience I was in withdrawal  7months in when it happened I relived it a lot of times in the past few years... it is not something I would wish on another person if we could prevent it with a couple of words. 

[btdt]

the dying or the watching it happen...

[Altostrata]

I am very sorry, btdt.

 

Still, please note your friend was not taking an occasional aspirin.

[Finn]

I know it has been said a few times that it could take a few weeks to feel better after re-instating, and it will be three this week, I think. Originally I felt better, but now I don't know. My mind feels numb, blank, vacant--like I can't think or react to anything. I can barely focus without spacing out. I most have posted a few dozen times by now about how I'm feeling.

 

I made an appointment with the psychiatrist that prescribed the Effexor at the end of the week. The doctor started this disaster with her stupid Effexor that was stupid supposed to help me so she should have to sort this mess out (as if!). I'm thinking I'm going to ask for a prescription for the lowest dose of Prozac and switch to that. Presumably right now, I'm dealing with the effects of starting Effexor again and not withdrawal, right? Or my brain is so fried, it doesn't know what to do and is giving up. Maybe this is another bad idea, maybe not.

[btdt]

I am very sorry, btdt.

 

Still, please note your friend was not taking an occasional aspirin.

He took aspirin for less time than he took and he the celexa less than a wk.  I don't know how much aspirin he took exactly there was bottle there the day he died it was mostly full... so if I don't know I don't know how you could know.  I had been to his house often actually stayed in his house when I worked in the city... all the time for years.... and had never seen aspirin there before that day. He was not eating fistfuls of aspirin I believe he took less than the label allows.  We are splitting hairs.  Would not let anyone I care about take an antidepressant and aspirin...not ever. 

[Petunia]

 I'm thinking I'm going to ask for a prescription for the lowest dose of Prozac and switch to that. Presumably right now, I'm dealing with the effects of starting Effexor again and not withdrawal, right? Or my brain is so fried, it doesn't know what to do and is giving up. Maybe this is another bad idea, maybe not.

 

From reading back through your thread, it looks like you've had some improvement of symptoms since jumping off at 21mg and then reinstating.  Three weeks might not be long enough to stabilize, if I were you, I would give it a bit more time.

 

Changing to a different medication is probably not a good idea, its likely to make things worse.  If things don't improve after a bit more time, perhaps you could updose to 16.5mg

[Finn]

So I went to my psychiatrist...She did seem to acknowledge that I tend to have a bad reaction to anti-depressants so I don't think she'll be trying to give me another one, but she did agree to let me try 10mg of prozac to offset Effexor withdrawal, which I am now trying.

[Altostrata]

I hope the Prozac works for you. Having come so far off Effexor, you may wish to take 5mg Prozac instead.

[Finn]

Thanks!

 

It's been a few days, and I have headaches, periods of dizziness, maybe some brain zaps--nothing shockingly bad, though. I'm cautious, I guess.

 

I don't know if I mentioned it before, but my doctor also wants me to have a brain scan since I have had a headache for a year straight. While I am fairly certain my brain is fine in the perimeters a mri would show, mris are exciting and I want to see my brain so I agreed.

[Barbarannamated]

Finn,

 

What did your doctor order your MRI for (diagnosis, symptoms)? I look forward to hearing the results. I hope all is fine. Mine showed damage and I'm interested in learning about others.

[Finn]

Finn,What did your doctor order your MRI for (diagnosis, symptoms)? I look forward to hearing the results. I hope all is fine. Mine showed damage and I'm interested in learning about others.

 

It just says headache for a year and dizziness--which is what I told her that prompted her to order the test. Ahhhh, what do you mean by damage? I'm worried it is going to show that I have decreased/ abnormal volume in some some brain region or lose of white/ grey matter or something else that will prove a bad long term outcome for my mental/ cognitive health. Because I'm optimistic that way...

[Barbarannamated]

Finn,

 

Someone else recently asked about MRIs and I added my experience and thoughts here:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5297-mri-whos-had-one-since-going-off-meds/#entry68179

 

I don't mean to discourage you from doing it, only to share the difficulties I've had deciding how to proceed with treatment recommendations based on the results. MRI findings seem to be open to various interpretations (in absence of tumors). Also, I was on drugs for nearly 2 decades, so much more likely to show damage.

[Altostrata]

Correct, unless an MRI shows obvious defined disease, it's not going to be very helpful.

 

Many people with withdrawal syndrome have MRIs and other scans. In almost all cases, they show nothing.

[Finn]

I think my doctor wants me to have the test to rule out a disease as the cause of my constant headaches, not because of the withdrawal I told her about. I'd be surprised and concerned if it showed an abnormality, but since I have had such a bad, constant headache, it is worth checking.

 

So...the prozac isn't helping that much. I'm experiencing headaches, dizziness, general bad feeling, etc--the usual.

[Barbarannamated]

Finn,

 

Did the headaches precede withdrawal? (Sorry if you've said before)

[Finn]

Finn,Did the headaches precede withdrawal? (Sorry if you've said before)

 

It might have been sooner, but the headaches started when I first took an antidepressant, back at the end of Aug. of last year. The really bad headaches started when I started Effexor. It isn't just since I started withdrawing; it was when I was starting the medication and while I was on a stable dose.

[Finn]

Had the MRI. Got the images on a disk for the doctor so if I knew how to read an mri, I could tell you what was up with my brain. Since I don't know, I'll have to wait...

[Barbarannamated]

Lol! If you knew, I'd be sending mine your way! I hope all is clear, Finn.