Morphologie: Risperidone nightmare

[tezza]

Yes, that's true, Skyler. I tried it once before WD and couldn't take it. It caused a lot of anxiety for me but I've heard of much worse.

[Morphologie]

Thank you, Skyler and tezza.  It was Keflex. 

 

Thank you for saying it will get better.  I just can't believe how miserable I feel.  It doesn't even make sense...and I had flashbacks or something too about when I was in the treatment center....it's like I felt how I felt then...like it was hard to think and I just tried to snuggle up to my visitors and hold their hand.

[Morphologie]

Is there anything that can be done if someone gets sick from an antibiotic?

[Skyler]

Is there anything that can be done if someone gets sick from an antibiotic?

 

Gosh... I just took Keflex for two infections, one was staph and the other strep  (one cap of cipro, not so much) to good effect. I don't know what to say.. it does not sound like you had trouble before you tapered... but I've never heard of anyone having a WD related reaction to one of the less  noxious ABs. I would think you will recover.. and fairly quickly.  Again... I'm really sorry you had such a rough time.

[flower]

I really got sick taking Cipro..Hang in there..You are not alone.

 

could you message me a little about hoe the taper from traz and gaba went for you.You are sure brave...

 

I do firmly believe our hard work will pay off in the end..

[Morphologie]

I need help.  I don't know what's going on but I feel like I'm losing my mind.  I'm scared so if anyone is around and can talk, please reply. 

[Jemima]

What kind of symptoms are you having?  Most likely whatever you're going through is withdrawal-related.  You've been on a mess of drugs and started and stopped quite a few abruptly.  All of that can give a person lots of physical and emotional reactions, none of which mean that you're losing your mind. Do your best to calm down and just stick it out without going to the ER, where you'll likely be stuffed with drugs or even committed.  I know it's difficult, but it helps to just accept that you're going through a rough time due to psychiatric drug withdrawal.  It's not your fault and there's not a lot you can do about it.

[Morphologie]

What kind of symptoms are you having?  Most likely whatever you're going through is withdrawal-related.  You've been on a mess of drugs and started and stopped quite a few abruptly.  All of that can give a person lots of physical and emotional reactions, none of which mean that you're losing your mind. Do your best to calm down and just stick it out without going to the ER, where you'll likely be stuffed with drugs or even committed.  I know it's difficult, but it helps to just accept that you're going through a rough time due to psychiatric drug withdrawal.  It's not your fault and there's not a lot you can do about it.

Hi Jemima.  Thank you for responding.  Intense panic, difficulty speaking and communicating, difficulty thinking. 

 

I've been very depressed lately and having suicidal feelings, so I tried St. John's wort the past few days.  It appears to have aggrvated things cognitively for me, which is sad because it helped my mood quite a bit. 

 

I've stopped tapering the clonazepam at 1/8 mg for a couple weeks now, but I am thinking now that maybe it took a few weeks for the effects of the previous tapering to catch up. 

 

I've also been having some akathisia, though not nearly as bad as it was, and some sleep myoclouns and rhythmic muscle jerking.  I am very upset about that, because even though I've been off the drugs that gave me that for months, it's obviously still not resolved. 

 

I feel deeply distressed and unhappy.  Plus I want off this gabapentin, I think the new batch I got is effed up, it doesn't seem to be working properly and it's making my hair fall out and I'm starting to look noticably bald in places now. 

 

I'm so afrad and so sick of all this I just feel like ending it all.  I just took some black seed oil to try and calm down. 

 

Like you said, it's my goal to, to cope without the hospital.  I've been feeling so bad lately, though, I've considered going back on antidpressant because my daily experience is much harder to cope ever since the antibiotic made all my symptoms worse. 

 

Everyone I know, just recommends the hospital I am alone with trying to do it otherwise.

[Jemima]

St. John's Wort is an herbal antidepressant and can only cause trouble for someone who's suffering from antidepressant withdrawal.  Your body and brain are sensitized to these kinds of drugs and starting and stopping another one is just going to add to your problems. You might want to taper off of this slowly and carefully and hold on everything else. I'm not familiar with black seed oil, but most supplements aren't a good idea for people who are in psychiatric drug withdrawal. The one supplement that might help you is magnesium, which may ease the muscle spasms.  Here's the topic:

 

Magnesium, Nature's Calcium Channel Blocker

 

High quality fish oil may also help to soothe your brain and facilitate healing:

 

Fish Oil, King of Supplements

 

There is no quick and easy way to feel better from psychiatric drug withdrawal.  Please do yourself a favor and quit trying new things and changing what you're already taking. The only thing that truly heals is time and there isn't much at all to make us feel better in the meantime.

 

 

 

[Morphologie]

St. John's Wort is an herbal antidepressant and can only cause trouble for someone who's suffering from antidepressant withdrawal.  Your body and brain are sensitized to these kinds of drugs and starting and stopping another one is just going to add to your problems. You might want to taper off of this slowly and carefully and hold on everything else. I'm not familiar with black seed oil, but most supplements aren't a good idea for people who are in psychiatric drug withdrawal. The one supplement that might help you is magnesium, which may ease the muscle spasms.  Here's the topic:

 

Magnesium, Nature's Calcium Channel Blocker

 

High quality fish oil may also help to soothe your brain and facilitate healing:

 

Fish Oil, King of Supplements

 

There is no quick and easy way to feel better from psychiatric drug withdrawal.  Please do yourself a favor and quit trying new things and changing what you're already taking. The only thing that truly heals is time and there isn't much at all to make us feel better in the meantime.

 

Thanks, Jemima.  The reason I am trying supplements and things is because my depression is so bad I feel suicidal and I don't want to go back on an antidepressant.  I am taking fish oil, already.

[Lexy]

Hello

 

As I was reading your post I was thinking I hope she's better in the next pages. I did come across

Where you said you were doing better. Just know this will pass too.

I do agree that is was the cumulative effect of the tapering you were doing on the clonazepam.

I was tapering slowly daily and I think it caught up with me all of a sudden too.

 

Time is the best healer.

XOXO

[Petunia]

 

 Intense panic, difficulty speaking and communicating, difficulty thinking. 

 

I've been very depressed lately and having suicidal feelings, so I tried St. John's wort the past few days.  It appears to have aggrvated things cognitively for me, which is sad because it helped my mood quite a bit. 

 

 

 

I'm sorry to hear that you've had a sudden increase in anxiety symptoms, I know how awful it is when things get bad again or symptoms return after they have been gone for a while.

 

St Johns Wort was one of the things which contributed to my 'crash' back in 2011.  I had been off antidepressants for quite a long time by then, but was taking other medications on an irregular basis and I had just started taking St Johns Wort every day, I had probably been taking it for about 5 days when I had my extreme reaction.

 

I understand why you wanted to try the St Johns Wort, the same thing happened to me earlier this year before I found this site.  Finally, after months of trying to live a stress free life, my intense anxiety symptoms had started to diminish, but I felt like I was slipping into chronic depression, and in some ways that felt worse.  I started to believe that I had developed clinical depression (I initially went on medication for anxiety, not depression).

 

So I went back to my doctor and asked to go on Prozac, thinking that I really did need to be on an anti-depressant.  That made me suicidal in several days, so then I asked to go back on Lexapro, that made me even worse even quicker.  Thankfully I found this site and have been able to learn what's been going on with my nervous system and how best to deal with it.

 

I've come to understand that 'depression' is part of the process of recovery and not true clinical depression, which makes sense for me, because I never had depression before going on medication.

 

Maybe this topic would help you understand and deal with this:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2873-anhedonia-apathy-demotivation/

 

Also, read through the ''windows and waves' topic.

 

I agree with others, that it would be best for you to hold on what ever you are on at the moment, until your nervous system has stabilized again.  St Johns Wort can have a very bad effect on an already destabilized nervous system, my opinion is that if you have only been taking it for a few days, you just stop, or perhaps a fairly fast taper.

 

In the mean time, do whatever you can to stay calm, taking care of yourself the best you can.  I hope you start to feel better soon, we all recover eventually, its just a matter of time.

[Morphologie]

Thank you, very much, Lexy and Petu. 

 

I quit the St. John's wort and got a new prescription of gabapentin from a different lot.  I had been gettting palpitations after taking some from the old bottle. 

 

I feel like I'm starting to stabilize.  I'm also trying to take the gabapentin on time, also, because I was getting off track with that. 

 

I'm starting to feel better.  Not great, but at least I don't feel like I'm losing my mind.  That was scary.  Also it felt like my mouth wasn't working right.  I dreamed I had a stroke when I was on the St. John's wort.  I hope I did not have a small one when I was asleep.

[Morphologie]

So I went to see a naturopath, who thankfully, agreed with me about most of what I think already about what is going on with me, but he was stressing that I need to get off the gabapentin and clonazepam if I want to get better.  I told him I would have to wean very slowly but i don't think he understands the horror/terror that coming of these drugs can create.  So for now I'm holding.

[Morphologie]

Does anyone know if the sauna can cause problems for the nervous system?  I went today and I didn't feel so good on the way home and when I got home, my pupils were very dilated, and my left pupil looked a little bigger than my right one, too.  Anyone else had weird reactions to sauna?

[mammaP]

Hi Morphologie, I'm glad you have been feeling better lately. I can't take a sauna, it made me feel

really sick and faint for a while after. I wouldn't dream of trying one again!  Not sure if it is anything

to do with withdrawal but we are so sensitised I think it probably is. Had you still been feeling better

before the sauna? 

[Morphologie]

Omg, I just was reading about demotivation, which I am having a really hard time with and I read someone's posts about being 7 years off of the drugs and still having a lot of symptoms I've been having.  And I'm not ever off all the drugs yet.  That's so crazy. 

[mammaP]

Don't be scared by that member's experience Morph. That would be someone who 

stopped suddenly or a very fast taper.  It is tragic that someone who just wants to be

free of drugs and does what they believe is the right thing  only to be left with crippling

withdrawal for years.   Taper slowly and you will have much less chance of long standing

withdrawal. 

[Morphologie]

Hi, I'm down to approximately 100 mg of gabapetin three times a day and about 1/8 of a mg of clonazepam still.  Seems like I've hardly reduced it any, although it's only 1/3 of the gabapentin that I used to be on.  The awful thing is that I feel so horrible now.  I really do think I have brain damage from the antipsychotics, my depression and cognition is still way worse than it ever was before the drugs.  What I don't know is how I am going to even surivive without going back on drugs, I'm so depressed all the time and I had some pretty significant problems before I ever took drugs.  I think about suicide a lot but I don't want to give in and go back on drugs.  I also cringe to think what it's going to be like once I'm all the way off the drugs.  If it's so bad now, how much worse will it be then?  I have:

 

tinnitus

rages

severe depression

severe exhaustion, spent most of last year and so far this year in bed

my eyes look uneven, sometimes my left brow droops

i get sick or extremely bad reactions from supplements and foods I used to be able to eat/tolerate

my health has seemed to get progressively worse

i feel like i'm dying

I don't want to live like this, but I don't want to go back on the drugs that ruined my health and my life

feel so despairing and loss of hope

 

AND I'M NOT EVEN OFF ALL THE STUFF YET

 

I'm so close to giving up

[Altostrata]

Hi, Morph. How have you been reducing the gabapentin?

[Morphologie]

HI. I got one of those Gemini 20 little scales.  I reduced it by 10% for a couple weeks, then I tried 25% which was too much, now I only reduce it by 5 mgs or less at a time (which is a small amount for gabapentin since I was taking 300 mg 3x day.)  My scale has been going kind of wonky lately and I think I'm going to have a buy a new one because sometimes after I put the little tray on it, suddenly it will add a couple mg to the empty tray for no reason.  I didn't think it was that much of a problem but I think I need to go get a new one.

 

What I've been wondering is how do people cope with serious mental health problems once they go off medication?  I know some people just had like moderate depression but for me there's been a lot of emotional instability, always.  It's just disheartening because I've been working so hard and sacrificing to get off these horrible drugs and I wonder well what am I going to do to cope without them, if it's this bad with them?  Know what I mean?  How do you advise people to go about dealing with their mental health problems if they don't resort to drugs (which I really don't want to, because I've sacrificed and suffered so much for this goal I really don't want to turn back now.)  That's how I got into a much worse situation than I was in, last year, by giving up and going to the psyche ward for 'help.'  What a mistake that was. I have a lot of hatred toward those people who did that to me, tool. I've clearly been damaged but nobody cares.  You go on the drugs, they damage you more so you can't get by from then on without them, seems like to me. I feel enraged and so powerless.

 

The other thing I get almost NO support for this.  I wish there was an in person support group for it.  It's so hard, and you're like a hero with what you go through and nobody even sees you. You go it alone.  I feel like my therapist is just waiting for me to give up and go back to meds;  She says she ins't but she isn't invested in non meds like I am.  She thinks meds can help and when I get tired, it's hard to resist the "come and be safe and have company with meds." 

 

I even made the decision to stop contact temporarily from my best friend, because she is zoned out on so many meds and it was because of my association with her (she's my best friend and I had a lot of respect for her and she LIKES going to the hospita which is where I got the idea that it was okay.) Anyway until I'm out of the woods I need to not talk to her because it just makes it seem like life is so much EASIER with meds. 

 

It feels like going through a war and nobody even sees what you're doing.  It's disheartening.

[Altostrata]

It might be time for a hold on reducing any drugs for now to let your system stabilize. It could be those big drops caught up with you.

 

The 10% taper is calculated on your current dosage, not your original dosage.

 

You may simply be a sensitive and emotional person. See this topic http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/

 

Your therapist doesn't know of any group therapy meetings? You might be able to find peer support groups on meetup.com

[Morphologie]

But Isn't it better to just get the toxic drugs out of my system so my nervous system can start healing?  So long as I'm reducing at a reasonable rate?  How will I ever heal?  It's already been over a year of reducing and weaning. 

 

I am a sensitive and emotional person. So sensitive and emotional that I have a hard time with coping and forming and maintaining good relationships, which is essential to be successful in life. 

 

I am looking into meet up groups and trying to start one of my own.

[bubble]

Hello Morphologie,

 

I'm also like that but have improved over (many) years of therapy. 

 

The answer to your question of why we are not healing once the drugs are out of the system is because of the nature of these drugs.

 

here is my favourite piece by Rhi describing what is happening to us.

 

 A lot of people, including healthcare practitioners; in fact, I guess, most people-- are operating from entirely the wrong paradigm, or way of thinking, about these meds. They're thinking of them like aspirin--as something that has an effect when it's in your system, and then when it gets out of your system the effect goes away.

That's not what happens with medications that alter neurotransmitter function, we are learning.

What happens when you change the chemistry of the brain is, the brain adjusts its chemistry and structure to try to return to homeostasis, or biochemical and functional balance. It tries to restabilize the chemistry. 

For example: SSRI antidepressants work as "serotonin reuptake inhibitors." That is, they cause serotonin to remain in the space between neurons, rather than being taken back up into the cells to be re-used, like it would be in a normal healthy nondrugged brain.

So the brain, which wants to re-establish normal signaling and function, adapts to the higher level of serotonin between neurons (in the "synapse", the space between neurons where signals get passed along). It does this by removing serotonin receptors, so that the signal is reduced and changed to something closer to normal. It also decreases the amount of serotonin it produces overall. 

To do that, genes have to be turned on and off; new proteins have to be made; whole cascades of chemical reactions have to be changed, which means turning on and off OTHER genes; cells are destroyed, new cells are made; in other words, a complex physiologic remodeling takes place. This takes place over time. The brain does not grow and change rapidly. 

This is a vast oversimplification of the amount of adaptation that takes place in the brain when we change its normal chemistry, but that's the principle.

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay.

When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse.

SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. 

It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. 

I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long. 

With multiple drugs and a history of drug changes and cold turkeys, all of this becomes even more complicated. And if a person is started on these kinds of drugs at an early age before the brain has ever completely established normal mature functioning--well, it can't be good. (All of which is why I recommend an extremely slow taper particularly to anyone with a multiple drug history, a history of many years on meds, a history of past cold turkeys or frequent med changes, and a history of being put on drugs at a young age.)

This isn't intended to scare people, but hopefully to give you some idea of what's happening, and to help you respect and understand the process so you can work with it; ALSO, because you are likely to encounter many, many people who still believe these drugs work kind of like aspirin, or a glass of wine, and all you need to do is stop and get it out of your system. 

Now you can explain to them that no, getting it out of your system is not the issue; the issue is, you need to regrow or at least remodel your brain. This is a long, slow, very poorly understood process, and it needs to be respected. 

[Altostrata]

What's important is to very gradually go off the drugs so as not to shock your nervous system.

[Morphologie]

Hiiii!  Thank you, bubble.  Genes turning on and off now that is interesting.  I recently read that some supplements can do that, too and it really freaked me out because I've experimented with tons of them trying to find a natural solution.   I wonder now if I did more harm than good with some of that.  Anyways, I am feeling a bit better depression wise right now but I have a new problem. 

 

I think something is wrong with my new prescription for clonazepam because as soon as I filled it and started taking it, I started feeling like I was having some bad symptoms again.  I think it's weaker.  It's really shocking how much differences are allowed with generics and you know what?  Not even all the pills weigh the same. 

 

There's can be quite a bit of difference at least according to my Gemini scale.  I wonder if maybe some of the pills aren't mixing right in the machine, either, because I'm chopping them up, I wonder sometimes if I'm getting a part of the pill that has less medicine if it's not mixed really well before they are formed.  It really seems sloppy, considering how much small changes can effect a person with these drugs.  Another thing that I feel angry about. 

 

Well, thank you, Alto for reminding me again that this is the most important thing to remember.  It's so hard to do, though.  I just want it to be ovee.  But I guess there is no guarantee that once I'm off the drugs I'll feel better, I could end up worse.

[Narcissus]

 

 

I guess there is no guarantee that once I'm off the drugs I'll feel better, I could end up worse.

 

No guarantee at all!  Please be careful.

[Morphologie]

I am back to check in.  I have been steadily reducing the gabapentin and I am now taking approximately 1/3 of a 100 mg capsule three times a day. 

 

I guess I should be more grateful that I am doing so much better than I was a year ago.  I'm inching ever closer to my goal of being off all the drugs but depression, exhaustion, lack of motivation, and ahedonia are still kicking my butt and sometimes (like recently) I feel seriously tempted to go back on an antidepressant in order to have a life.   I feel like I've lost years.

 

I still have a hard time getting out of bed and making myself do anything and I have bad back problems now after all this time in bed.  I have spinal fusion, the chiropractor said. Great...

 

Well anyway, thank God there has been improvement and I didn't have to remain in the land of the dead (that awful feeling I had of no pleasure, no goodness or happiness anywhere in my brain) or as a drugged out person pacing frantically in a mental health facility somewhere.  I really believe that could have been me had I let them lock me up in the state facility and give me whatever they wanted.  Bah!!!

 

I just wish I had natural solution for my depression.  I've tried all the supplements for depression and I just can't tolerate it.

 

Hey does anyone know how long the whole 'becoming oversensitive to tons of foods and substances' lasts?  I've got that now.  I thought it was bad before, how sensitive I am to everything.  Now it's just insane.  Please tell me there's and end to that!

[Altostrata]

Good to hear you're doing better, Morphologie.

 

Yes, treat yourself gently and the hypersensitivities will diminish.

 

How are you measuring the gabapentin? How are you reducing it?

 

It seems unlikely your spine would fuse from being in bed. Rather, you've lost strength and flexibility. You might want to take up a gentle daily exercise, such as walking. This can help with symptoms of depression. Vitamin D3 from sunshine is good for you, too.

 

Are you taking fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/
 

[Morphologie]

Thanks, Alto.  I am bumping it down one point on the scale each day. I think I am going to stop my taper temporarily now, though, cause it's getting too hard again..  It's been a year and 4 months now, weaning off just 300 mg 3x per day of gabapentin!  I just get so tired of it.  I want the withdrawal symptoms to be over with!

 

I'm happy right now because I got some magnesium oil yesterday and it's helping some of my symptoms.  I've had the most awful pain in my upper back and neck lately and after one application of the oil it's already improved a bit. 

 

Unfortunately even in the oil form it increases my body dysmorpic disorder but oh, well, I guess I can't have everything.  Right now it is more important that I get some relief from some of these withdrawal symptoms.

 

I'm not sure why spines fuse...a chiropractor told me I had that going on last year and then a naturopath told me recently it was from not using it enough (i.e. spending too much time in bed.)  I have a hard time leaving the house right now because my social anxiety is pretty bad.  I do still walk long distances sometimes but it's more sporadically because I have such a hard time with social anxiety and feeling unmotivated.  I usually walk at least ten blocks most days, though, cause I don't have a car and walk a lot.

[Altostrata]

Magnesium oil is not really oil, if that's what you mean. It feels slippery but it's not an oil.

[Morphologie]

Yeah, it's not, is it?  They call it that but I looked up recipes online for it before and I think it was just magnesium and water, cooked down.  That stuff stings!  I don't even want to use it but I guess I coule try diluting it with water or another oil. 

[Altostrata]

It stings your skin? I guess I would dilute it with water.

 

It's magnesium and water cooked under a lot of pressure.

[Morphologie]

I'm realizing tonight that my withdrawal/recovery from the gabapentin is probably complicated because I took it to cover symptoms from the risperdal withdrawal.  I am scared my brain will never be the same.  I just realized that I've been picturing feeling a certain way when I get off the gabapentin, based on how I experienced it in the past when I was on it, but this time, it doesn't feel the same.  Anyway I stopped my taper.  I'm trying to stabilize now again.

[mammaP]

How are you Morphologie?  Hope you are feeling better by holding your taper.

[Morphologie]

How are you Morphologie?  Hope you are feeling better by holding your taper.

 

Hi, mammaP.  I'm off it now!  This is day 3.  I'm not in crisis but it's weird all the things I've been experiencing.  I know it'll take some time before my body adjusts to completely having it out of my system, though, so I'm trying to be patient.