Angel9058 Mirtazapine (Remeron) troubles

[Angel7366]

Hello everybody

 

My doctor put me on 15mg Mirtazapine mid-January for no other reason that I told him I was feeling a bit down. I had also successfully recovered from benzodiazapine withdrawal (Xanax and Valium for one month, yes one month but 18 months of withdrawals. That was hell. He thought it was good my mood was stabilised.

 

I never found Mirtazapine really helped beyond the first 6 weeks or so - there was no change to my mood which was actually fine but it helped me sleep and I liked it for that. In March it started to have a paradoxical effect on me - I was getting anxiety. My doctor told me I had GAD (Generalised Anxiety Disorder) and I really don't think I do. He put me on Buspirone alongside the Mirtazapine - that was awful, it increased my anxiety and I felt quite ill on it. I went back to him after a week and he increased my Mirtazapine to 30mg to deal with this anxiety which I am pretty certain was from the drug anyway. I stayed on that dose for 1 week too - the increase increased my anxiety, I felt manic and almost suicidal.

 

I reduced it to 15mg again for a further week then I jumped (I live between the UK and Spain) and this happened on my return as I couldn't stand the way I was feeling - I was a wreck. I took my last dose 3 nights ago. I know I should not have gone cold-turkey but it was either a matter of staying on it and feeling dreadful or facing the consequences. The first day I was off I felt good and almost back to my normal self, much better without the drug in me. But yesterday Day 2 I started with horrendous stomach cramps and nausea. I did not sleep one wink last night because the pain and running to the loo kept me up. I am absolutely exhausted today. Today I am still having stomach pains, nausea and a bit of anxiety. I pray I will sleep tonight - I don't know how I will cope if I have the same bad night as last night.

 

I was tempted to go back on the drug and ask my doctor here to give me a taper but I am a bit reluctant as I have completed almost 3 days off of it and I really don't want to go back on it or any antidepressant again in my life, so I am trying to stick it out.

 

I just wondered if anyone can relate to my experience and perhaps give me a rough idea of when the worst may be over. Is it going to get worse than this in a few days time when the drug is out of my body?

 

Thanks.

 

Angel958

[tezza]

Hi Angel,

 

Welcome! I'm sorry you've had so much trouble!

 

There is no way to predict how long withdrawals may last or how bad it will get. Some people go into protracted withdrawal syndrome from cold-turkey or from tapering too fast.

 

How long did you wait after the withdrawals from the benzos had eased up?

 

If I were you, I might try taking 3.5 mg of Mirtazipine to see if it would alleviate these symptoms.

 

If you could add your drug history in signature, it would be most helpful:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

I'm glad you've joined us!

[compsports]

Hi Angel,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

With all due respect, your doctor is an idiot as Remeron has a reverse dosing mechanism. The higher the dose, the less sedating it is.

 

Anyway, as one who tapered off of Remeron at a very slow rate, I would strongly urge you to follow Tezza's advice and see if going back to 3.5mg would help. Then taper very slowly from there.

 

Again, welcome.

 

CS

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Angel.

 

Even 1mg-2mg mirtazapine might ease your withdrawal symptoms, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2028-tips-for-tapering-off-remeron-mirtazapine/

[Angel7366]

Thanks everyone. Am on Day 3 and have noticed a slight decrease in gastric, nausea and anxiety symptoms.

 

I appreciate what you are telling me (ie to jump back on at a low dose) but I have now seen my Spanish doctor who was every step of the way for me through my benzo withdrawals (April 2011 to June 2012). He has told me not to go back on the Mirtazapine and to let the withdrawals take their course. As I want his support and do trust him I have to go along with this, whether this is right or wrong, and hope that I don't have too rough of a time!

 

So thanks for everyone's input ... I shall continue to post my progress. I think that if I managed to survive the horrors of my benzo withdrawals, I shall be able to cope with these for a few weeks. I am such an idiot for ever having taken another psychotropic drug again in the first place - I am obviously sensitive to them.

[dalsaan]

Hi Angel

 

How's your sleep?

 

Dalsaan

[Angel7366]

Hi Dalsan. I think it's too early to say. I was never a great sleeper anyway. I hadn't slept since 2 nights ago because of discomfort so last night I took a very rarely taken 'desperation' Zopiclone and slept 12 peaceful hours.

 

I am feeling much better today Day 4 - am planning a normal day - only very minor stomach discomfort so far but I just woke up. Will take it as it comes.

 

Have a nice day.

 

Angel.

[Angel7366]

Okay today is Day 4 off the Mirtazapine and I am doing an update (as much for myself as for anything else)

 

DAY 4

 

Slept 12 hours with the aid of a Zopiclone (a one-off)

 

Woke up with low-lying stomach cramps.

 

Mentally am absolutely fine and good.

 

This evening the stomach cramps have escalated slightly but are very tolerable and am well enough to go out to a restaurant now with my husband

 

Angel

[Angel7366]

Middle if Night 4/5

 

Euch!!!!!' Insomnia!!!!!! Not slept a wink again and the night is nearly over!! Is this the Mirtazapine or lack of it talking or is it me?? Well I'm not resorting to another sleeping tablet, that will make thing worse. Am allowing myself 1 per week whilst I get thru' this.

 

Just ranting!

[tezza]

I'm pretty sure it's withdrawal from the mirtazipine. If I were you, I'd take a small amount, stabilize and taper off very slowly.

[Angel7366]

Hi Tezza. Am almost 5 days off. I have to ride this out! I can't go back on the damned things just because of insomnia. Everything else seems to be calming down. Anyway there's no guarantee tapering to the bitter end avoids any kind of withdrawals.

 

Thanks anyway

 

Angel x

[tezza]

I wish the very best for you! Please keep posting, it will be encouraging to learn you've recovered. I do hope that happens soon!

[Angel7366]

Thanks Tezza

 

DAY 5

 

Today has not been the greatest and I feel like cr*ap but I think that was the sleepless night again last night more than the symptoms because the stomach cramps have morphed into gastritis type symptoms like a stomach flu which are preferable to the cramps. I am still not giving in. Okay:

 

LAST NIGHT

Stomach cramps - not severe but between mild and moderate all night. Sleepless in Seattle last night although I was actually here in Spain.

 

MORNING AND AFTERNOON

Gastritis type discomfort as well as sheer exhaustion but my mood continues to be good and I am endeavouring to be positive about this. I remember when I came off the benzos one of the symptoms was the cramps and stomach flu sensations as most of your nerves are in that area and the drug is crying out Feed Me Mirtazapine! Feed Me Mirtazapine! But No. You ain't getting any. Do your worst!!

 

EARLY EVENING

Slight drop in gastritis

 

Will be glad when today is over and I can chalk another one off.

 

To be continued ...

[Angel7366]

DAY 6

 

LAST NIGHT: I did sleep but I took another Zopiclone despite intending not to. This is not a good idea for me as I know, from past experience, it may cause rebound insomnia so am going to try and not take another for a while.

 

TODAY: Some mild nausea and nerviness showed up from noon onwards and I am still feeling a little groggy from the Zopiclone. I've come to the conclusion that no medication is good for me and I've stopped the beta blockers.

 

I don't feel too bad and I think it is progressing the right direction. I am counting on 2 weeks to feel majorly better but am able to carry on with my life even though I am not feeling 100%.

 

This will be my last post for a while. I think constant updates are not a good idea for me as they are keeping me overfocused on this withdrawal and I also catch other threads which really worry me.

 

So thank you for the support, I wish you all the best and I will come back with a final update when I truly feel I am over everything but be assured I am not really suffering right now, just a bit off but we all have days like that A/D or no A/D don't we?

 

Angel

[Altostrata]

If you've been taking beta blockers regularly, do not suddenly stop them! They also can cause withdrawal symptoms.

 

How much are you taking and how often?

[Angel7366]

If you've been taking beta blockers regularly, do not suddenly stop them! They also can cause withdrawal symptoms.

 

How much are you taking and how often?

 

Hi Aldo

 

My doc told me to take 40mg a day for a week but I don't like the way they make me feel. I think I have taken 60mgs altogether over past 4 days. I last took 20mg last night and none since. Will I be ok or do I need to taper?

[Altostrata]

What is the drug you have?

 

You might want to try 10mg. More is not better, but it could help your symptoms.

[Angel7366]

Okay Alto

 

Many thanks. I will try 10mg now - it seems to make me a bit depressed though.

 

Thanks again

Angel

[Angel7366]

The drug is called Sumial - it is a Spanish brand of propanolol I believe

[Altostrata]

Yes, depression is a side effect of beta blockers.

 

It might not be good for you at any dosage, or you might be able to take a tiny bit, even 1mg, occasionally to reduce symptoms. You'll have to experiment.

[Angel7366]

Thanks for that Alto. I am seeing my doctor tomorrow anyway and will discuss. He is a big fan of betablockers which he gave me throughout the benzo withdrawals - I felt a positive effect on the benzo anxiety then. But I don't feel they are doing anything with these A/D withdrawals. Am not feeling great but everything is so far tolerable.

 

When I analyse it, I am making small improvements every day unless I get a setback.

[Altostrata]

Your nervous system may be hypersensitized because of your previous withdrawal history.

[Angel7366]

Yes I think you are right about that

[Angel7366]

Alto I am terrified now. I just read that if I take any kind of benzo or Z drug ever again it can bring back my benzo withdrawals. I haven't touched a benzo since I recovered last summer 2012 but I have had about 4 or 5 Zopiclones in the last couple of weeks to help me sleep.

 

I never realised. I am so scared I am going back into benzo withdrawals again. Do you think I am going to be okay?

[Yarule]

Hello,

I have been on mirtazapine 45mg for 3 months. I had some withdrawal symptoms, each dose reduction (45-30-15-0) I felt agitated, trouble sleeping and anxiety. They resolved each time after about a week. When I was at zero, took me about 3 weeks till I felt completely the same as before the drug. This isn't a horrible drug as far as the lenghth of withdrawal symptoms.

[Angel7366]

Thanks Yarule very much and hope I don't have too much trouble although am now worried because I may be desensitised because of my benzodiapaine withdrawals which ended last year. And I have been taking Zopiclone for sleep and have just read even 1 tablet can bring those withdrawals back and I have taken several in the past weeks - so now am worried whether I am simply getting Remeron withdrawals on a highly-sensitive brain or if I am in big trouble now because of the Zopiclone!

 

But that is really great what you wrote about the Remeron and I hope I only suffer from that and it will go and I am not going back into benzo withdrawal.

 

Just worried!

[Altostrata]

Angel, please don't worry.

 

Every one of us with a history of withdrawal syndrome from any psychiatric drug should be careful with any other psychiatric drug, as our systems may be sensitized to all neuroactive drugs, supplements, and substances.

 

This is just the way it is. If you are careful and try small doses first to see how a drug etc. affects you, you can minimize any unexpected reactions.

 

It's always best to take the only the minimum effective amount of any neuroactive drug. You may wish to limit your use of zopiclone to reduce the risk of rebound and withdrawal from it.

 

Thanks for your advice, Yarule.

[Angel7366]

Thank you so much Alto. I have just worked myself up into such a state of panic and anxiety that I have had to take another betablocker.

 

As unpleasant as this is it doesn't feel like benzo withdrawals. The thing is I think I have a degree of PTSD from all that I went through then (I lost 2 years of my life from start to finish) and I don't think I could go through all that all again.

 

This experience with the Remeron and the Zopiclone has certainly made me more wary of any psychotropic drugs in the future and thanks for your invaluable advice and support Alto.

 

I will post update in due course.

 

Angel

[Angel7366]

I'm sorry to trouble you all again but I need some advice. On this Day 6/7 I am having horrendous withdrawals. Major anxiety and nausea and they will not let me sleep all night again.

 

Do you think it would be easier if I did go back on the Remeron and taper slowly and does anyone know if I do that would my withdrawals be as bad as this or if inter dose withdrawals (dropping doses) would be bad. Because if so so I would rather continue with my cold turkey and get it over and done with.

 

Also if I did go back which dose should I go back on? I was on 1g for 2 months then 30mg for a week then 15mg for a few days then I jumped

 

Thanks so much

 

Angel

[Angel7366]

Sorry that should read 'I was on 15 mg ...

[Meimeiquest]

Angel, surely someone who knows will come soon..I think 5 mg would be safe, someone might suggests more. No, CT and ID withdrawal don't feel the same..thank goodness! Good luck!

[Angel7366]

Thanks Meime. I am in such trouble here. I don't know how I'm going to get through the night and I'm alone. Seeing doctor tomorrow so will check with him. Thing is I just don't want to go through all this again I am so ill though

[tezza]

Hi Angel,

 

I'm sorry things have gotten so hard for you to bear. You could try 2mg to start and if that's not enough you can go up by small amounts.

 

You would need to stabilize on a small dose and taper off VERY slowly. It is gentler on your nervous system to do it this way.

[Meimeiquest]

I know. I think you just need to get some in your system..when I have done this with antidepressants, I felt better in less than 2 hours. Sleep is crucial for re-stabilizing.

[dalsaan]

HI Angel,

 

I am on remeron and have been tapering for over a year. I have had numerous goes 'toughing it out' after going cold turkey or tapering too fast.

It never works. On a number of occasions I went months with 10 hours a week sleep (maximum).

 

I have never outlasted it.

 

I have always had to reinstate and taper very slowly. This is not because I am a weak person, in fact I am very strong. But, being hypersensitive

means when full on withdrawal kicks in it doesnt go away quickly. The sever sleep deprivation is dangerous on so many levels. To keep going in

the face of that is a form of self torture in my book.

 

I recommend you reinstate a small amount and monitor your symptoms till you are stable and then taper very slowly using your symptoms as a guide

 

dalsaan

[Altostrata]

Yes, Angel, we recommend going back on a small dose of the drug rather than trying to wait out withdrawal symptoms -- as we've noted above.

 

See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2028-tips-for-tapering-off-remeron-mirtazapine/ for suggestions on how to measure out small doses.