Yarule Does anyone has an idea how to heal a faded mind?

[Yarule]

Hi everybody,

 

I am new to this forum. To give a short introduction:

I've been depressed at age 20 duo to some re-adjustment problems after beïng on erasmus in Spain. I was prescribed an anti-depressant, escitalopram 10mg/day by my shrink.

I took it before at age 17 for about 8 months. The 2nd time I took it for 6 weeks in total, after noticing all the problems I have had during the 4 months off were actually caused

by the anti-depressant. Needles to say that I was terribly shocked when I searched the web for the term 'SSRI, sexual dysfunction, anhedonia, ..'. So terrified that I learned all about

this terrible drug and desperate to find a solution.

 

This solution included drugging me even further.

A list of the drugs I took to reverse my condition (I only write the drugs that I took for a significant amount of time, not like 2 doses)

 

- Wellbutrin (bupropion) : 2 months @ 150mg/day

- Remeron (mirtazapine): 2 months @ 45mg/day

- Stablon (tianeptine): 1 month @ 3x12,5mg/day

- Ritalin (methylphenidate): 8 months @ dosis between 5mg and 30mg/day

- Seroquel (quetiapine): On and off, 100mg a day. Now @ 25 to 50mg/day (titrating down)

- Stilnoct (zolpidem): 2 months @ 10mg/day

- Cymbalta (duloxetine): 2 months @ 15mg/day (1/2 of lowest normal dose)

- Lambipol (lamictal): > 2 years at dosis 200mg (6 months); 100mg (6 months); 75mg (6 months); 50mg (4months); 30-40mg (3 months). Still titrating down.

 

Needless to say that all these drugs caused significant problems. The SSRI & ritalin caused the most problems. Namely anhedonia, apathy, depression, anxiety and cognitive problems.

Ritalin even caused upon discontinuation after abuse a horrible paranoïa with delusions that the drugs were making me dement and I would be lost forever. I refused all medical treatment in the

mental hospital.

 

But what I wanted to ask: all these terrible assumptions, along with the paranoïa and the deepest depression I could imagine, caused lots and lots of uncontrollable stress (to the point that I thought that

my body could produce any more stress). I had this for about (in total, 2 periods) 11 months.

This caused my mind to deteriorate. To the point were my mind is REALLY loud and chaotic. My mind stayed this way, and then faded away to nothing.

This progress slowly took place in 4 years, with periods I could function, and the progress went way slower. 1st period was withdrawing from all drugs and where my mind was set on the point that it was damaged even more then before. Took me about 4 months of stress. 2nd period was when I started working. It came back at full force. 7 months in total.

Now it is like I have nothing left in my head anymore. No feelings, no upper/higher thoughts, no guiding thoughts, just nothing. I can't even call it 'blank'. Like everything is stripped away. The world and my doesn't feel real, can't act normal (don't know how anymore), ....

 

How the hell do I cure this ??

[lexicon]

It sounds like you went through a lot ..But try and keep the faith. ..You came to a good place, where there is a lot of support and encouragement ..

Unfortunately I cannot help you, as I have my issues.

But rest assured that someone knowledgeable will come along soon to help you ..

Wishing you all the best ..xx

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Yarule.

 

I moved your topic here as your Introductions topic, as it contains so much about your history.

 

Are you only on Lamictal now? What is the dosage?

 

Any of the drugs you have taken, and any withdrawal from any of them, can affect focus, concentration, and our sense of ourselves.

 

All of those medications indicate your nervous system hasn't had a chance to stabilize on its own. It will repair itself if you support it gently and allow it to stabilize.

[Rhiannon]

What Alto said.

 

I would add that given your chaotic history of being given your first psych drug while your brain was still immature, followed by multiple drugs and switches, and what sounds like getting off them pretty quickly, your symptoms are typical and to be expected. Unfortunately these drugs do disrupt our nervous systems in many ways and it can take quite some time for things to become stable and normal again.

 

The chances are very, very good that you will heal and return to normal eventually. It will probably take longer than you would like.

 

I would recommend you cease tapering the Lamictal now, since you are so symptomatic. Just hold it at your current dose, unless Alto thinks you might want to updose. It's going to take some time for you to recover and become stable. Best to wait until then to finish your Lamictal taper.

 

If you can give more clear details as to what drugs you have taken during what time periods, and how long it's been since you discontinued them, that would be helpful for us. I believe someone can tell you how to add that information into your signature line--it's somewhere in the "edit your profile" area.

[Yarule]

My drug history would be:

 

8 years ago:

> Escitalopram: 8 months (W/D in 2 weeks. Symptoms: brain zaps, depression, anxiety, not to bad.

> Seroquel: 7 months. W/D : 4 days (symptoms: euphoria, energy, agitation, inhibition).

 

4 years ago:

>Escitalopram (4 weeks @ 5mg, 2 weeks @ 10mg) Quit cold turkey. W/D: Brain zaps, less intense emotions, PSSD. (developed during course)

>Wellbutrin: 2 months @ 150mg. Quit cold turkey. W/D: Anhedonia, apathy.

>Mirtazapine: 1 month @ 15mg. Quit cold turkey. W/D: Agitation, insomnia.

>Tianeptine: 2 months @ 3x 12,5mg/day. Quit cold turkey. Minor withdrawal.

 

3 years ago:

> Methylphenidate, large doses, addiction. Caused the most pain in the whole corse. W/D: Severe depression, severe anxiety, paranoïa psychotic episodes, intense stress.

 

2 years ago:

> Mirtazapine 30mg for 2 months. Quit 1 week: 30->15->0. Withdrawal: agitation, restlessness, insomnia.

> Lamictal: 200mg. (continued)

> Seroquel 100mg for 1 year. Quit in 20 days. (100mg->95mg->90mg->85mg..5.mg..0mg)

 

1 year ago:

> Lamictal 100mg (continued)

 

6 months ago:

> Lamictal 75mg.

> Seroquel 25mg.

 

4 months ago:

> Lamictal 50mg @ 4 months.

> Seroquel 25..50mg.

 

Now

> Lamictal 40mg.

> Seroquel 25mg

[Jemima]

You might want to take a look at this topic, which describes the ups and downs of recovering from antidepressants:

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Recovery

 

Emotional numbness is definitely a side effect of having taken antidepressants, and it's apparently the very last one to normalize. I was on antidepressants for fifteen months and have been off them for sixteen months, but my normal full range of emotions has not yet come back, although I experience glimmerings from time to time.

 

Here's another topic that may be of interest. I find it very helpful when I get scared that I will never get back to normal:

 

Anhedonia, apathy, demotivation

 

You can recover from this, but it's going to take a lot of patience. No one can predict how long recovery will take for any individual because there is so much that effects our progress: length of time on the drug, drug combinations, basic health before starting antidepressants, et cetera. There are just a gazillion factors that affect recovery. Your mind may a bit faded at the present time, but please always remember that this is not permanent.

 

Welcome to the forum. It's been a life-saver for me. You'll find lots of solid information here and gentle, friendly support in your journey.

[tezza]

Yarule,

 

Welcome! I apologize for suggesting to you in Angel's thread to start your Intro. I do recall reading your first post yesterday at some point in the day. I must admit, however, I didn't remember it until I came back and read your first post again.

 

You have certainly been through a lot, again, I'm sorry.

 

You will find a wealth of info on this site. Alto is very knowledgeable, she has devoted much time and effort to make all this information available to us.

 

You can add your drug history in signature form, then it will show under all your posts.

 

Here are instructions:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Thanks!

[Altostrata]

Rhi gives good advice.

 

Why are you taking the Seroquel?

 

Seroquel has much worse effects on general health than lamotrigine. It alone could make you feel blank.

 

When did you last change the dosage of any of your drugs, which ones, and how much?

 

I would hold on the lamotrigine for now, stabilize, and perhaps shift to very gradually tapering the Seroquel -- unless you need it for some reason.

[Yarule]

Thank you all for these encouraging posts

I will take my time to read all the links. Thank you for this. I will never give up, one thing stayed and that is the will to continue, despite all fears and torture.

If I could only look in the future and see myself happy and functionning.. After all, this is all a normal human journey to be happy.

Next to go is the seroquel. It indeed does make me more numb and apathic. This night I will go down to 0mg. I was 3 nights on 25mg, after being for a while on 50. I think 3 nights is enough. Withdrawing from seroquel isn't that bad.

 

Sincere,

Yarule

[Yarule]

@ altostrate: It's been 2 years since i've been thrue a complete withdrawal.

But I have been -and am still- been struggeling with seroquel and especially lamictal.

This is ongoing. I started at 200mg lamictal about 2 years ago. After a while I only took 100mg. I really can't remember when, but that has been a long time ago. Then 75mg. Long time ago. This was the minimum dose I felt was working fine.

Then at 6/2012 at 50mg. Started having trouble in life again then. Don't know if I could blaim the drugs. Work, girlfriend and a tired mind..

I started the hellish 50mg tamper in november. 45mg for 2 weeks, 40mg for 2 weeks.

It's been trial and error since. Up/down.. Been on 30mg for about 6 weeks. Then I quit for 3 days, back on 30, quit,..

Now I am back on 40mg and deffinatly more stable.

[Altostrata]

Are you taking Seroquel regularly? At what dosage? When did you last make a dosage change?

 

Withdrawal effects are cumulative. Going off Seroquel might not have been difficult in the past, but in your current destabilized condition, it might cause much worse symptoms. Please go off very gradually and systematically.

[Finn]

Hello Yarule!

 

I am very sorry to hear about the series of drugs and their progressive negative effect on your mind and self. Please take care. I hope you find the encouragement and knowledge here that you need to taper slowly enough to regain your mind.

[Yarule]

Thank you all for these encouraging words.

I am now saying that I suffered a lot, what I did, but I do not say that there were periods where I was just doing fine. Yes, I still had huge symptoms from all the meds

& suffering, but I could manage and felt sure it would heal eventually, and if it didn't.. well fine, I'm still alive. Something is better then nothing.

My mind started adapting around all of this, figuring ways to feel okay and happy about me.

 

 

 

But, with work, my sensitive mind started 'overworking'. Stress in the beginning. Then this stress was all the time. Starting to have anxiety. I did not want to quit my job,

so I continued. It was horrible. Terribly confused (people started calling me "the nutty professor" there. Then, at a point where the mind can't handle it anymore, it starts

with dissociation and depersonallisation. At that point, I could function at work again. I didn't feel the pain and overdrive it was causing. But it was there! I am now stuck in this state,

and b/c it is so stressy on the mind, it starts fading away.

 

These are problems I did not have pre-meds. My mind is a lot more sensitive and slower then before. And to heal I have to give it a rest. I know I start to feel better then, but is very

hard given the progressed faded state. Going out, even doing nothing is overdrive.

 

I'm now still on 25mg of seroquel. I started escalating doses like from 25mg/night to 50mg/night. This stayed my normal dose.

But I knew that when I took more - sometimes up to 100mg, even once 200mg - I knew that the next day I would be very sleepy and my mind

wasn't thinking and thinking all the time. So it started like sometimes, then pretty often, like 2x a week @ 100mg.

This was great in the beginning, but eventually it became numbing me and the side effects appeared.

So I'm down now to 25 for a week and feel a bit better. The updose in lamictal is giving me a bit more peace of mind too.

Someone here said that lamictal is less bad then seroquel, so I go for the lamictal.

 

 

@ Altostrata: You are totally right. I am a lot more sensitive to withdrawal now. This is a huge indicator that I have to give my mind peace.

[tezza]

Yarule,

 

Alternating doses can be destabilizing for a lot of people. This could be adding to your troubles. I realize doctors suggest this many times but, unfortunately, doctors haven't been where we are and most don't understand much about withdrawal.

 

You've been on and come off several drugs in the past, any or all this combined is probably contributing to your problems.

 

Are you unable to add your medication history in signature form? It would be very helpful to anyone reading and hoping to offer help or advice. I provided a link with instructions in an earlier post to you. If you are unable to do this I'm sorry for asking again.

[Liam]

Hi Yarule, I have been on Seroquel and am still on Lamictal and do not like either of them! Lamictal makes me feel not like myself, so it's hard to function sometimes knowing I am not getting that full experience out of certain things. Even at times when I am "functioning" well (getting work done, being sociable), it still feels like I'm not really there. I still have feelings sometimes, but they're not as strong as they were before I started medication (happy or sad, among other emotions) and these feelings feel a bit unnatural. This may not necessarily be what is causing your empty mind, but it is what caused it for me! I had similar problems on the Seroquel, but I was only on that for a short time.

 

It sounds like you are taking relatively low doses of your two remaining medications, especially compared to the higher doses you were taking, which you were taking for longer periods. Often, withdrawal from tapering down on the lowest doses, as well as when you stop taking the medication, is the most symptomatic withdrawal. And while some drugs come with physical symptoms and make you feel sick, others can come with emotional symptoms, which are not as easy to see on the surface.

 

Although the time it takes for you to recover may be a while, and it's different for everyone, I am very sure that if you continue on this path you will feel like yourself again

[fj929]

My drug history would be:

 

8 years ago:

> Escitalopram: 8 months (W/D in 2 weeks. Symptoms: brain zaps, depression, anxiety, not to bad.

> Seroquel: 7 months. W/D : 4 days (symptoms: euphoria, energy, agitation, inhibition).

 

4 years ago:

>Escitalopram (4 weeks @ 5mg, 2 weeks @ 10mg) Quit cold turkey. W/D: Brain zaps, less intense emotions, PSSD. (developed during course)

>Wellbutrin: 2 months @ 150mg. Quit cold turkey. W/D: Anhedonia, apathy.

>Mirtazapine: 1 month @ 15mg. Quit cold turkey. W/D: Agitation, insomnia.

>Tianeptine: 2 months @ 3x 12,5mg/day. Quit cold turkey. Minor withdrawal.

 

3 years ago:

> Methylphenidate, large doses, addiction. Caused the most pain in the whole corse. W/D: Severe depression, severe anxiety, paranoïa psychotic episodes, intense stress.

 

2 years ago:

> Mirtazapine 30mg for 2 months. Quit 1 week: 30->15->0. Withdrawal: agitation, restlessness, insomnia.

> Lamictal: 200mg. (continued)

> Seroquel 100mg for 1 year. Quit in 20 days. (100mg->95mg->90mg->85mg..5.mg..0mg)

 

1 year ago:

> Lamictal 100mg (continued)

 

6 months ago:

> Lamictal 75mg.

> Seroquel 25mg.

 

4 months ago:

> Lamictal 50mg @ 4 months.

> Seroquel 25..50mg.

 

Now

> Lamictal 40mg.

> Seroquel 25mg

 

 

 

What drug caused your cognitive issues?

[Yarule]

Hi everybody,

 

I started to give cerebrolysin a try. I'm not terribly depressed (like having suicidal thoughts) but depressed enough not to be able to work and being tired all the time.

 

I used SSRI's in the past, they caused PSSD & anhedonia. Now, anhedonia is left. And I had for like 60% anhedonia.

The years after that, I had frequent bouts of month long terrible depression with hospitalisation. The terrible depressions / anxiety caused me to have some serious form of brain fog. I have a terrible memory and enormous anhedonia.

Use of psychiatric drugs, and recently a research chemical called 'ethylphenidate' caused me to experience a significant increase in anhedonia. 

 

This lead me to use cerebrolysin to try to fix the problem.

 

I now used a total of 10ml, with:

Day one: 1ml

day two: 1ml

day three: 1ml

day four : 2ml

day five: 2ml

day six: 2ml

day seven: 1ml

 

All doses are lower then standard doses (5ml) but I'm now able to set up an side effect profile. And it's great regarding that.

 

Side effects are: increased heart rate and anxiety.

Positive effects are a slight increase in mental energy, wanting to do more. But positive effects are not significant, but I think they are present. Will increase dose regimen to 5ml / day next week. Then my supply is gone and I'll see if I order more.

 

Anyone had any experience with this drug? 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Yarule, here is your intro topic, there is only one to a customer in the Introductions forum so all of your stuff needs to go there.

 

Perhaps you are barking up the wrong tree seeking drugs to fix drug damage (because nothing but time and right living works in the long run)? A lot of us find that once we are sensitized by wd we can never use psychoactive drugs (and lots of other stuff) again. Your 'research' chemical use has bad idea written all over it. I think if you do a search in the Symptoms forum you will find a thread on cerebrolysin. (Oh look, someone was just reading it this morning, how convenient).

[mammaP]

Yarule, here is your intro topic, there is only one to a customer in the Introductions forum so all of your stuff needs to go there.

 

Perhaps you are barking up the wrong tree seeking drugs to fix drug damage (because nothing but time and right living works in the long run)? A lot of us find that once we are sensitized by wd we can never use psychoactive drugs (and lots of other stuff) again. Your 'research' chemical use has bad idea written all over it. I think if you do a search in the Symptoms forum you will find a thread on cerebrolysin. (Oh look, someone was just reading it this morning, how convenient).

Thank you for posting the link to Yarule's intro CW. 

 

Hi Yarule, I agree with CW 100% that trying more drugs is  not going to fix the problems caused by drugs in the first place.

Your brain and nervous system need stability to stabilise and regrow. Are you still taking lamictal and seroquel? 

Please be very careful, you have had so many drugs in the past and I would hate to see you getting worse instead of better! 

[Altostrata]

Yarule, when someone who has gone off psychiatric drugs says another drug is activating, I worry.

 

Often, people who have gone off psychiatric drugs find additional stimulants trigger anxiety, restlessnes, sleeplessness, jitters, even akathisia -- all signs of activation.

 

Please be very careful, your nervous system is not made of rubber.

[dalsaan]

Hi Yarule

 

Can I please ask you to create a signature with your med history. Details on how to do that are here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Thank you

 

Dalsaan

[Yarule]

Hi everybody,

 

I got a short question. Aside from using anti-depressants (so no anti-depressants are used in a severe depressive episode), do you notice when you come out of it, the left over (residual) symptoms worsen after each episode?

 

I experience during an episode SEVERE stress and anxiety, that rizes above the limit that emotions can go. So during that episode, I can't think, act or do normal during such a period. I do not understand reason, nothing. 

 

I notice that after I'm 'healed' or get better (and even during) that my emotions flatten. 

After an episode they stay flat. My personality gets flat too. It's like if my brain is an union, layers get removed. I'm becoming more apathic, indifferent, feel less and less, become flat, can think less, want less,.. feels like brain damage, like my head fills with air.

How does it goes in your case? Are you after an episode the same as before? (and then I mean between multiple episodes), or is there a progressing handicap coming in?

[bubble]

Hello Yarule,

 

I have merged the question you posted in the Symptoms and self-care section because what you are experiencing is much better understood if we look at the overall picture of what you have been through. 

 

What you describe sounds to me s exchange of anxious states with what we call anhedonia. Check the thread on this and I believe you will find experiences you can relate to: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2873-anhedonia-apathy-demotivation/

 

As Dalsaan asked you a few posts back it would be very helpful to have your drug history in your signature. I saw that you wrote down the drugs you had been taking in one of your posts so you can just copy that in your signature. giving a year is better than saying 8 years ago because as years go by it's not so useful

 

Here you will find the instructions on how to do it. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Best,

Bubble

[Altostrata]

Yarule, I believe you're describing waves and windows. While difficult, these are normal in healing. Please read The Windows and Waves Pattern of Recovery