Lilu: Depression worsened by meds

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

By the way, my Dr. told me that my ongoing diagnosis is 'Dysthymia'. This I have felt ever since I was a kid. I'm 63 now. My challenge will be to see how I can alleviate or change it and keep from falling into a major depressive episode again. And I think for you, too.

[Jemima]

Lilu,

 

I merged your two Intro topics.  Just one to a customer, please.

[Lilu]

Lilu,

 

I plan on tapering from 20 mg to 10 mg lexapro and staying there because I know that I tend toward depressive episodes & have since 14 or 15 yrs. old . Like you, my depression just reoccured and it got harder to get out of it. I'm 56 now. I didn't begin medication until I was in my late 30s. 

 

I personally believe that an antidepressant ( zoloft at that time) saved my career & improved my quality of life immensely but with age I metabolize things differently and need to decrease.

 

RU

 

What did depression FEEL like when you were 14 & 15?  For me, it was in the 80s and no one used the word depression.  I had no idea about any of this and neither did my parents.  Of course I hid most of it from my parents.  I romanticized my sad feelings by writing tragic romantic poems and expressing my feelings in my diary.  At 15 I just started stuffing any feelings I had with food, and was a compulsive overeater for 10 years.  

[Lilu]

Lilu,

 

I merged your two Intro topics.  Just one to a customer, please.

Which Intro topics?

[Lilu]

Lilu,

 

I merged your two Intro topics.  Just one to a customer, please.

so, we can have only one posting in the intro area? what if my topics are somewhat different?    I find it that if I post new content inside my Intro, I don't necessarily get responses.  Which forum is for posting various questions?

[Lilu]

 

I would think that if your "withdrawal" started 3 months after stopping medication, that it wasn't withdrawal symptoms you were experiencing, but symptoms from something else, whether your illness or other drugs. How can withdrawal start long after the drug has been out of your system? That just doesn't make sense to me.

Withdrawal can start long after the drug is out of one's system because these drugs make structural changes to the brain and other areas of the CNS. These changes can take months unto years after the drug is out of one's body to grow back to normal. No one knows precisely how this works and there's no way of predicting how long healing will take at the present time. What I've observed from being on this site for over a year is that Effexor and Pristiq are the worst for coming back months later and biting one hard on the butt. Perhaps this the difference between withdrawing from an SNRI and an SSRI. Just a guess.

 

Well, since I bridged with Lexapro, after being on Effexor and Pristiq for 8 years, am I really withdrawing form both?  Maybe I'm having all these symptoms because I didn't taper...I tapered Effexor over 2 months and I had lots of nasty withdrawal symptoms, but I didn't have is crying spells. With this Lexapro withdrawal, man, absolutely no tolerance for any kind of stress. I just start crying. And then it's hard to stop.  I don't think there is such a big difference in terms of the mechanism of action, as they all affect primarily the 5-HT1a receptors. As per www.drugbank.ca - a great resource.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Unfortunately, when the topics were merged, my post regarting 'the crux of the matter' lost it's antecedent. Lost the flow and looks out of place.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

A mod will hopefully be able to explain 'one topic to a customer' better than I could attempt to.

[Lilu]

Lilu,

 

I merged your two Intro topics.  Just one to a customer, please.

It wasn't really an Intro topic, I was asking a specific question.  Should I be posting it in the self-care forum?

[alexjuice]

 

Lilu,

 

I merged your two Intro topics.  Just one to a customer, please.

It wasn't really an Intro topic, I was asking a specific question.  Should I be posting it in the self-care forum?

 

You can post it in your Intro thread but you can only have one thread in the Into forum. This way we all get a single, consolidated 'case history' in the Intro thread and can all make separate posts on individual matters in the other relevant forums.

 

best

Alex

[areyouthere]

 

What did depression FEEL like when you were 14 & 15?  For me, it was in the 80s and no one used the word depression.  I had no idea about any of this and neither did my parents.  Of course I hid most of it from my parents. 

 

 

The same as it can now. Low energy. Loss of interest in things I normally could get excited about. Just kind of existing.

 

In my teens I also had poor hygiene.. didn't wash my hair often enough so it was greasy. I was anorexic for two years. Yeah no one used the word depression. When I was anorexic it was pretty obvious I was in serious trouble but by that time I was 18 and on my own in college but , of course, still cared about by my family. If you think depression was unknown , imagine how foreign someone who was anorexic 38 years ago was to every one. Well understood now... I was a freak then.

 

It was a cry for help. 

[Lilu]

Lilu,

 

I merged your two Intro topics.  Just one to a customer, please.

When you merged, my original question completely disappeared.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

They left your question 'How do I tell my doctor.....' in the other forum, I believe. Alto suggests using a straight 'google search' for the board as the search function in this one tends not to be specific enough.

[Lilu]

My answer is YES. These drugs (including benzos) blunt all emotions, making stress easier to handle. Our stress tolerance and emotional resilience become diminished while on drug. Take away the drug cocoon and those stressors seem magnified due to lowered stress threshold. What used to be an everyday stress that we could cope with now feels overwhelming. Emotional sensitivity is hightened. Sadness, crying, anger, rage, jealousy, insecurity / lowered self confidence, paranoia (most any negative feeling) are all magnified (neuroemotions). This is when doctors might rediagnose as bipolar when it is actually withdrawal and the body attempting to find homeostasis.Agree 100% with Peggy. Losing a job triggers all sorts of emotions in anyone. Your reaction was very natural.At the same time, good emotions are still blunted (emotional anesthesia, anhedonia, apathy).Just my 2 cents.

 

Very interesting. But I can't help but wonder if the emotional reaction when not under the influence of medication, is really the appropriate one?  While on antidepressants, when around people whose behavior or words is stressing me out, I just push my reaction down and try to stay calm, try not to be affected or am less affected by them.  However, after my recent two week cold-turkey withdrawal, I had the most intense emotional reaction to people (not strangers) who spoke to me in a very rude and hurtful manner.  Yes my reaction was over the top, but it seemed to me that my perception of what was inappropriate behavior was much more clear! It's like I was more aware of the fact that these people were treating me badly, and was much less willing to put up with it.  Hmmmm......

[Lilu]

I forgot to point out that I believe you are still on some sort of psychoactive med. Yes, you CT another med, but you are still being supported by another. There is where your particular challenge is.

I stopped taking Pristiq back in mid-March. So my latest cold turkey withdrawal was just from Lexapro alone.  But I HAVE REINSTATED and after 4 days of being back on 5mg of Lexapro I'm feeling better.  

 

Also I'd like to add that taking .25 mg of Klonopin GREATLY eased my withdrawal symptoms.

[Jemima]

 

Lilu,

 

I merged your two Intro topics.  Just one to a customer, please.

It wasn't really an Intro topic, I was asking a specific question.  Should I be posting it in the self-care forum?

 

 

No, 'Symptoms and self-care', 'Tapering", et cetera, are intended for topics of general interest.  The Introductory post is meant for all comments and questions regarding your personal journey through antidepressant withdrawal.  Just keep adding onto your thread.

 

Every time you post in your thread, your Intro rises to the top of the topics list under "View New Content" in the upper right hand corner.  Posting under a different discussion won't get you any more attention than that.

[Jemima]

They left your question 'How do I tell my doctor.....' in the other forum, I believe. Alto suggests using a straight 'google search' for the board as the search function in this one tends not to be specific enough.

 

Yup.  That topic is still right where you left it, under Tapering.  That's because lots of people struggle with either trying to convince their doctors that they have withdrawal syndrome, or they have a hard time finding a new doctor who understands.

[Lilu]

I am doing much better now.  Like a different person... since reinstating 6 days ago.  Ha! Depression relapse...my ass!  

[areyouthere]

I am doing much better now.  Like a different person... since reinstating 6 days ago.  Ha! Depression relapse...my ass!  

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Altostrata]

Good news that reinstatement resolved your symptoms.

[Lilu]

Good news that reinstatement resolved your symptoms.

 

Like a magic frickin wand!  I went from reacting to just about anything and everything, with anger and tears, to..... not at all. No more tears or anger or hysterics. 

Not that I'm feeling like good ol' Polyanna or anything.  Kind of flat and somewhat down...but at least I'm not crying all the time. 

 

4 days of reinstating on half the dose that I was on before, that's all it took.  I hope my psychiatrist is smart enough to acknowledge that this was "withdrawal syndrome" and not my depression returning. 

 

I just don't understand, why are doctors so willing to blame our symptoms on mental illness and so unwilling to blame the drugs?

[Altostrata]

Good question to take up with your psychiatrist.

[Lilu]

About a year ago, my doctor switched me from Pristiq 50 mg. to Lexapro 10 mg. with no bridging whatever. I experienced no withdrawal from this, just a feeling of greater calm, as Pristiq was far too stimulating for me.My too fast taper off Lexapro was a different story. I went from 10 mg. to 0 mg. over a three and a half month period, including taking 2.5 mg. every other day for the last two weeks, and after a few weeks off Lexapro I was in withdrawal hell. I experienced three to four months of near-total disability, then a very slow and gradual return to normal function. I'm sixteen months out now, and still have some problems with emotional numbing.

 

How did you feel on 2.5 mgs?  This "emotional numbing" you speak of, what does that feel like for you?

That's how I feel on this drug, emotionally numb. I just wanna sit and stare.  It's like my attention gets caught on stuff. I feel like a vegetable. Dam, should've gone to 2.5 mg instead of 5 mg but it's hard to cut a 10 mg pill into quarters. I know there's a 5mg tablet, but I only have 10s. I just don't know what to do anymore. It's been so long since I've been normal and functional.  Ugh.  I'm sure my psych will want me to go back to 10 mgs. 

[Lilu]

I hate how I'm feeling and wondering if I should ask my doc to prescribe the 5 mg tablets so that I could cut that in half, or if I should just ask for liquid lexapro.  This sucks, I feel like a zombie.

[areyouthere]

Maybe make your own liquid? Here are instructions/ suggestions:  HERE

[Jemima]

 

 

 

How did you feel on 2.5 mgs?  This "emotional numbing" you speak of, what does that feel like for you?

That's how I feel on this drug, emotionally numb. I just wanna sit and stare.  It's like my attention gets caught on stuff. I feel like a vegetable. Dam, should've gone to 2.5 mg instead of 5 mg but it's hard to cut a 10 mg pill into quarters. I know there's a 5mg tablet, but I only have 10s. I just don't know what to do anymore. It's been so long since I've been normal and functional.  Ugh.  I'm sure my psych will want me to go back to 10 mgs. 

 

 

When I got to 2.5 mg. is when things got really crazy.  That's when I started getting "manic".  I can't say what would have happened to you at 2.5 mg., but I certainly wouldn't advise such a drop.  That would be a 50% decrease from what you're taking now at a point of stability and I strongly doubt that such a drop would do anything for your feelings of apathy.  It might make you "manic" as well, but "numb" is better, believe it or not.

 

How does numb feel?  I had plenty of negative feelings, likely neuro-emotions, but no good ones at first.  That is changing over time, although certainly not as fast as I'd like, but I'm having some good, normal windows and slowly improving overall.

 

I hope you'll stay right where you are and learn to tolerate the apathy for a while.  Then you can start tapering off the 5 mg. slowly and carefully.  There is NOTHING I know of that will get you back to feeling normal  immediately or in the near future, but that apathy is actually a sign of progress, in my opinion.  It will fade as you taper off and stay off for a while.

[Lilu]

 

 

 

 

How did you feel on 2.5 mgs?  This "emotional numbing" you speak of, what does that feel like for you?

That's how I feel on this drug, emotionally numb. I just wanna sit and stare.  It's like my attention gets caught on stuff. I feel like a vegetable. Dam, should've gone to 2.5 mg instead of 5 mg but it's hard to cut a 10 mg pill into quarters. I know there's a 5mg tablet, but I only have 10s. I just don't know what to do anymore. It's been so long since I've been normal and functional.  Ugh.  I'm sure my psych will want me to go back to 10 mgs. 

 

 

When I got to 2.5 mg. is when things got really crazy.  That's when I started getting "manic".  I can't say what would have happened to you at 2.5 mg., but I certainly wouldn't advise such a drop.  That would be a 50% decrease from what you're taking now at a point of stability and I strongly doubt that such a drop would do anything for your feelings of apathy.  It might make you "manic" as well, but "numb" is better, believe it or not.

 

How does numb feel?  I had plenty of negative feelings, likely neuro-emotions, but no good ones at first.  That is changing over time, although certainly not as fast as I'd like, but I'm having some good, normal windows and slowly improving overall.

 

I hope you'll stay right where you are and learn to tolerate the apathy for a while.  Then you can start tapering off the 5 mg. slowly and carefully.  There is NOTHING I know of that will get you back to feeling normal  immediately or in the near future, but that apathy is actually a sign of progress, in my opinion.  It will fade as you taper off and stay off for a while.

 

None of these drugs ever made me feel manic. In fact, tapering or discontinuation would make me even more drowsy and ridiculously sleepy than before.  I would think feeling manic would be a positive in the sense that you have a lot of energy and can get things done?  I have been feeling lethargic for YEARS, "dragging my feet", not having the energy or the "oomph" to get things done. Everything is such a big effort... I think I would welcome feeling manic.

[Jemima]

Mania also includes being extremely irritable and lacking in good judgment.  I would fly into a rage over the slightest inconvenience (fortunately not in public) and I bought things impulsively that I could easily have done without.  I had what's called "flight of ideas", meaning that ideas would go through my mind so fast that I couldn't hang onto them  My memory was awful and I had a great deal of difficulty concentrating.  It is possible that I was having an adverse reaction at this point as the two stressors that caused the original depression--too low cholesterol and my crappy job--had been eliminated for a couple of months prior to this drop in dosage.  I will proably never know if my "mania" was from an adverse reaction or if that was from dropping my dose way too fast.

 

You don't want to go there.

[Lilu]

Mania also includes being extremely irritable and lacking in good judgment.  I would fly into a rage over the slightest inconvenience (fortunately not in public) and I bought things impulsively that I could easily have done without.  I had what's called "flight of ideas", meaning that ideas would go through my mind so fast that I couldn't hang onto them  My memory was awful and I had a great deal of difficulty concentrating.  It is possible that I was having an adverse reaction at this point as the two stressors that caused the original depression--too low cholesterol and my crappy job--had been eliminated for a couple of months prior to this drop in dosage.  I will proably never know if my "mania" was from an adverse reaction or if that was from dropping my dose way too fast.

 

You don't want to go there.

 

Omg. That's what my cold-turkey withdrawal felt like! I just wasn't calling it mania. To me mania is something different. I mean I was extremely drowsy all the time, even after a full-night's sleep, albeit on Ambien, since I had withdrawal insomnia every night.  But yes, I would "fly into a rage" over the smallest thing, and would be angry for hours. But my anger was also mixed with crying and being hysterical.  And yes, I also started shopping and buying stuff more impulsively than usual.

[Lilu]

I am feeling pretty depressed.  Does this mean that I need to go back to 10 mg of Lexapro?  I'm sure that's what my doc will want me to do. Or add another drug, like wellbutrin. 

 

I just dont know what to do anymore.  Maybe I am one of those people who HAS TO be on medication to function.  Although, I can't say that I have been able to function well even while on meds.  Pristiq hardly did anything for me, except keep me from crying all the time.  It certainly didn't prevent me from falling into depressive holes during stressful times.

 

I keep wondering, have antidepressants made me this way, or is the fact that I've had one stressful event after another keep happening to me, that has eroded my ability to cope? Isnt one of the factors in depression that with each relapse, another one is more and more likely, and more intense?

 

I recently saw in one of my journals, that before I went on long-term antidepressant therapy, I was crying 4-5 times a day because of a breakup, for 2 months.  My only exposure to antidepressants before that was a 3 month stint on Prozac, about a year before.  So I can't blame protracted withdrawal for my reaction. 

[Jemima]

Grieving over a lost relationship for two months doesn't seem at all abnormal to me.  Expecting life to be a smooth, delightful road all the way is what seems to be wrong with a lot of people who end up on antidepressants, and I include myself in that group.  Life is often hard, even miserable.  Sometimes that means overcoming real obstacles, like not making enough money to pay the rent, and sometimes it means accepting that our plans, wants, and wishes are in the dumper.  Drugs, unfortunately, do not perform an attitude adjustment.  They just blunt our feelings, much like being slightly drunk, but that doesn't resolve anything. In fact, we are likely to perform the same useless actions over and over. Again, I came to this conclusion the long, hard way, by tripping myself up many more times than I can count.

 

As for your question, try to hang in there at 5 mg.  Depression seems to be part of prolonged withdrawal syndrome and it may be due to faulty thinking (see above).  I still get spells of neuro-depression at eighteen months out.  I believe they are neuro-depression because there's no real reason to feel depressed, unless I begin to ruminate and come up with obscure reasons for feeling bad.

 

I've found that distractions such as reading light, cozy fiction and playing computer games help those pseudo-depressive episodes as much as anything.  IMO, there isn't anything we can do to speed the withdrawal process along (although there is a lot we can do to screw it up), so I'm now trying to make muddling through as pleasant as possible.  Cooking, which used to be a favorite hobby, turns me off now so I do the most simple, convenient meals that I can.  Cleaning still gives me satisfaction, but I can't go at it with the same energy as in the past, so I do a bit at a time.  Shopping really turns me off, so buying new clothes is on hold, but I do take care of getting the necessities such as food and paper products the easiest way that I can (such as mail-ordering vitamins over the Internet).

 

Getting through withdrawal successfully takes a lot of patience, courage, and endurance, so be as good to yourself as you can, and whatever you do, don't blame yourself for what has happened. Remember that there is an end to the misery not so far up ahead.

[Lilu]

Grieving over a lost relationship for two months doesn't seem at all abnormal to me.

 

As for your question, try to hang in there at 5 mg.  Depression seems to be part of prolonged withdrawal syndrome and it may be due to faulty thinking (see above).  I still get spells of neuro-depression at eighteen months out.  I believe they are neuro-depression because there's no real reason to feel depressed, unless I begin to ruminate and come up with obscure reasons for feeling bad.

 

Thanks for your reply, Jemima.

Yes grieving over a lost relationship for 2 months or more is normal.  Crying 4 times a day over a guy who wasn't even a real boyfriend, who I knew for a year, IMO ...IS NOT.  But for me, I now realize it was the last straw of that year, that was preceded by multiple highly stressful events.  

 

In fact in doing an inventory of all the stressful events that I have gone through, what I see is a clear pattern.  I've always had a tendency to get depressed.  This must be a genetic component.  But I was able to cope with stressful events, even multiple stressful events prior to taking ANY medication was pretty good.  I was able to function and bounce back, time after time.

 

However, as many people on this forum have shared, after being on antidepressants or any kind of psychotropic medication, they are unable to handle any kind of stress.  As I keep experiencing myself.  Four months of meds back in 2008 and I couldn't handle the stress of starting a new job.  Even while on medication, it seems that any stressful event triggers a relapse in me.

 

I asked my therapist yesterday, if each major stressful event diminishes our ability to cope with future stressful events.  And she said, that based on her knowledge and experience, that is not the case.  So the only thing that I can conclude is that, it is being on antidepressants that has actually diminished my ability to cope.

[Altostrata]

What I found is, when you experience that kind of emotional pain, it's trying to teach you something about yourself. Whatever yearning you had associated with that relationship is your deepest wish. Honor that wish, don't hide from it. It is showing you the direction you need to go in for happiness.

[Lilu]

What I found is, when you experience that kind of emotional pain, it's trying to teach you something about yourself. Whatever yearning you had associated with that relationship is your deepest wish. Honor that wish, don't hide from it. It is showing you the direction you need to go in for happiness.

 

Yes, yes. Very true.  When I started doing some deep emotional digging inside the pain that I was experiencing, I did find some profound core beliefs that were the ones causing me so much pain around this guy's sudden announcement that he got engaged.  Beliefs like, "No one will ever want to marry ME!"

[Lilu]

So, I've decided to stay on 5 mg of Lexapro for now, because I'm afraid that if I start tapering and then get off it, I'll completely fall apart.  But I can't say that I feel good on it either.  I wake up feeling so tired and groggy every morning.  Have so little energy and motivation to get stuff done.  I know these are symptoms of depression.  But I'm not sure if the Lexapro is contributing to my feeling this way, or if I'm just this way because I'm so unhappy with my life.  I just don't know what to do anymore. 

I know it's better to get off antidepressants when things are more or less stable in one's life. But how do I get there while feeling depressed?  I've been stuck like this for almost 5 years now. No job, no money, no friends, no boyfriend, no life...

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Hi Lilu,

 

I'm visiting your thread to see how you have been doing, sounds like things are at a kinda low point. I've hit a low again too and it surely is distressing. But there was a window in there so I know I can climb back up again, with effort.

 

Wishing you well, sweetie!