☼ Hello. mammaP checking in!

[Altostrata]

And a cozy warm night to you, mammaP!

[mammaP]

Thank you Alto, I had quite a good nights sleep last night.

Didn't sleep through but was comfy and settled even when awake so was not so badly 

'hungover' this morning. 

 I went to the pool and had a 45 minute swimming lesson. I can swim but have never learned to breathe

properly and can only do breast stroke which is difficult now with the arthritis. 

My coach was very impressed that I was willing to do anything at all and soon had me doing different things.

I can now kick and do the back crawl. I started on breathing and front crawl but couldn't co-ordinate everything! 

I enjoyed it and am looking forward to my next lesson.

 

My grandaughter is coming to stay tonight and bringing her friend too so have had to make up the spare beds.

Now I need to clear my grandson's clutter from the spare room, I couldn't see the floor and there was a strange

smell in there. He had shoved his soaking wet boiler suit under the bed after cleaning gutters for the rugby club! 

earlier this week    I've got the girls chocolates and will put a scented candle in the room to get rid of the pong of

her smelly brother  . 

[tezza]

Sounds like another cozy night ahead, with company, that will be nice!

[mammaP]

My cozy night didn't quite turn out like that! The girls arrived about 10.30pm after being out all day

and went straight to their room to practise their singing. ( They are going to be pop stars y'know )

I didn't mind that at all, I like to hear them singing away, it means they are happy and makes me happy.

 

The neighbours had their christmas songs on so loud I couldn't hear my tv. Over and over again the

same songs, if I go into a shop and hear 'do they know it's christmas' I think I'll run away screaming, lol.

At 1.30am I complained (by banging the floor) and it was turned down thankfully. I've never done that

before so was surprised and grateful that they turned down the volume. 5 minutes later they were fighting

and throwing things until 3am     It was 2am on Thursday when the police took one of them away. I'm

just glad I managed to have a good night on Friday! 

 

Today I am exhausted and irritated, the girls are good and haven't been any trouble, stayed in their room

most of the time, singing. One direction songs thankfully! My grandaughter told me she has never had a

friend for a sleepover because she shares a room with her sister and she is so happy to have her friend

with her.

I hope the neighbours don't start again tonight, it really gets me down. They were quiet for a few weeks,

I think they split up for a while but  must be back on again. 

[areyouthere]

Wishing you a much deserved break from the noise and activity. Maybe today and tonight are that time!!

 

RU

[mattinsmom]

Prayers for a peaceful night. 

As a granddaughter who was taken in - it means a lot to your granddaughter that you created a way for her to experience a sleep-over. Kuddos!

[mammaP]

Ahhh thanks Amy and RU. It is all quiet tonight, it is 10 pm and all is peaceful so will be heading to bed very soon. 

I didn't realise until today that 4 of my grandkids never take friends home, they bring their friends here all the time. 

My other grandkids who are older used to bring their friends for sleepovers. I love having them around. 

Unless I'm feeling ill, but they seem to know when I'm not well, they ask if I need anything then go on their way. 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I hope you have a quiet night mammaP, you certainly deserve it! I think it is wonderful what you do for your kids and grand kids and it is so nice that they are respectful of you when you are not feeling well. They have obviously been raised well thanks to you!

[mammaP]

It is now 31 days since my last drop of 1 bead and I've had only very mild withdrawal. 

I'm tempted to go down to 2 now, but think I might wait a bit longer because I don't want to risk 

withdrawal again. I can hardly believe I am talking about dropping from 3 tiny beads to 2,

it sounds crazy to be nervous about that and my doctor would scoff , in fact anyone who

hasn't been through withdrawal would think I was crazy! 

 

There has been some stress too and I've coped with it ok. Things changed a lot when I dropped

that last bead but it's hard to explain what it was that changed. I felt it, it was physical, as if it

suddenly stopped making me sick and I felt a calm inside. That hasn't changed, it is a strange 

feeling for me but a good one. 

[tezza]

I completely understand your fear, mammaP! I feel the same with Remeron right now, down to .8mg as of last night, it's making me a bit nervous.

 

I'm so glad you had the good, physical change with your last drop.

[Nikki]

One or two beads can make a difference so I do understand your reluctance.  Stressors add fuel to a fire we are trying to keep under control.  Christmas is a few weeks away and then New Year's....so maybe not doing anything is a good thing.

 

For alot of people there is a crash after the Holidays (right after New Year's) when we start to put our decorations away.

 

Believe it or not I too, have experienced what you were describing as a physical change.  More of a sense of calm.  When I am working hard I may become tired, but I feel satisfied that I am making progress in my business and working towards a financial goal I have set for myself.

 

I am happy for you to be feeling calm

[mammaP]

I will leave it a bit longer vefore I drop again, don't want to rock the boat! 

 

I was going through what I've done in the last 2 weeks for my CBT appointment today,

and I am surprised at how much I have actually done.  Most 'normal' people will do 

these things every day without even thinking about it but they are huge for me! 

The last few days I've made my bed as soon as I got up.....usually I fall into it just

the way it was when I fell out of it. I had a grocery order delivered and no ready meals or junk in it. 

Over the weekend I made 2 casseroles, a huge pot of spaghetti bolognese and NO jars of anything

went into it, just fresh ingredients.

And the jewel in the crown was a roast chicken, with fresh veg, even the parsnips and potatoes

were hand peeled and not pre prepared! 

 

My spare room is now tidy and uncluttered, the beds made up. It is the first time since I moved

here 2 years ago that it has been clear. It was done because the girls were coming last weekend

and if they hadn't been it would probably still be a mess, but it's done. 

I have help with the cleaning and that motivates me to tidy up before she arrives. 

It's odd how I can do it when someone is coming round but not for myself! 

I went shopping yesterday for some new clothes too, if I'm throwing away all my rubbish stuff I 

need something to wear! I went to the swimming pool on Saturday and had a swimming lesson. 

 

I'm quite surprised and pleased, a year ago, even 6 months ago I couldn't do so much and 2 years ago

was almost comatose! It makes me want to weep thinking about all the people who are so sick on AD's,

and grateful that I had the motivation to get off them 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Oh mammaP, what an inspiring, positive post this is! You have really accomplished a lot and your determination is very much admired. I am so glad things are continuing to look up for you. Everything is on a positive, upward direction and I know you will reach your goal! Hugs for you {{}}

[mammaP]

Thank you CW, That hug was lovely  .

 

After my very positive posting yesterday, I started to feel ill in the afternoon, it came on quite suddenly.

My head felt very heavy and my eyes were closing so I went to bed. It was about 3.30pm. I just laid there for 

a while then started to doze. It was the typical kind of experience before tapering. Kind of awake and asleep

all at once, dreaming but not sleeping, makes no sense does it? But that is how it was for years. Then I did

drop off and woke up suddenly with panic and suicidal thoughts! I thought, whoa, where did that come from? 

After that I feel unwell. Didn't sleep too badly last night and couldn't wake up this morning. The alarm was

going and the clock light was on but I couldn't drag myself out of it. Now I feel very tired and want to go back

to bed again.. I guess it's another wave and I'll ride it. 

My head is spinning and I feel sick, my joints are sore and my hands are like claws they are so stiff. 

It seems  very odd that this is the same as I felt every single day on the 37.5 of effexor. 

 

Is it a wave, is it because I need off it now, I'm not sure but will ride it for a while and see. 

When I started  tapering, I would drop a few beads, then feel great for a few hours, that is normal, then

feel a bit dizzy and nauseous, (withdrawal) then feel ok for a while. Then would feel the side effects again.

That is when I would take another drop. Didn't really follow a timetable, just what my body was saying.

Then I stopped at 5 beads, hit full blown withdrawal and came here. It took 7 months before being stable

enough to take another drop. That was 4-5 weeks ago. I'm a bit confused now! 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I would be confused too, mammaP. I am sorry you felt ill yesterday. Sounds like something knocked your system off. Maybe not the best time to take a drop just yet? Only you can be the judge of that but whatever you do, please take care of yourself. You are such a valuable asset here!

[mammaP]

I just realised, I've cut out sugar to get candida under control. The yeast will be dying off,

bet if I went to the baker and bought some cakes I would feel better ! They said I could feel

ill while the yeast is being killed off. I wonder how long that will take, hope it isn't long! 

[Nikki]

MamaP I just finished posting to Bubble.  When I was a wreck recently I realized after my panic which is my first reaction to anything is that I had a virus which is running around Palm Beach County.  In speaking with a friend she said it is the type of virus where we don't know what the heck is wrong.

 

Could be a winter bug......and yes it can be WD, but something tells me it may just be feeling unwell for something. 

 

Sadly, we all fall into the same boat of thinking we are experiencing WD when anything crops up.  But it may not be.

 

You will pull out of it and give yourself permission to rest.  More often than not, resting is the answer to all of our woes.....

 

Hugs

[btdt]

Thank you CW, That hug was lovely  .

 

After my very positive posting yesterday, I started to feel ill in the afternoon, it came on quite suddenly.

My head felt very heavy and my eyes were closing so I went to bed. It was about 3.30pm. I just laid there for 

a while then started to doze. It was the typical kind of experience before tapering. Kind of awake and asleep

all at once, dreaming but not sleeping, makes no sense does it? But that is how it was for years. Then I did

drop off and woke up suddenly with panic and suicidal thoughts! I thought, whoa, where did that come from? 

After that I feel unwell. Didn't sleep too badly last night and couldn't wake up this morning. The alarm was

going and the clock light was on but I couldn't drag myself out of it. Now I feel very tired and want to go back

to bed again.. I guess it's another wave and I'll ride it. 

My head is spinning and I feel sick, my joints are sore and my hands are like claws they are so stiff. 

It seems  very odd that this is the same as I felt every single day on the 37.5 of effexor. 

 

Is it a wave, is it because I need off it now, I'm not sure but will ride it for a while and see. 

When I started  tapering, I would drop a few beads, then feel great for a few hours, that is normal, then

feel a bit dizzy and nauseous, (withdrawal) then feel ok for a while. Then would feel the side effects again.

That is when I would take another drop. Didn't really follow a timetable, just what my body was saying.

Then I stopped at 5 beads, hit full blown withdrawal and came here. It took 7 months before being stable

enough to take another drop. That was 4-5 weeks ago. I'm a bit confused now! 

Just a note Momma there is a topic at pp think a thread at topics too about sleep state misperception ... those of us who have lived it know what your talking about if you want to know more about it you can find the links.. it is very old.  

I was a part of the discussion long ago at pp about this but my posts are now missing if you want me to clarify anything on that thread I may be able to help not promising but maybe...  I know the gist of it.. at least. Bottom line it does not sound strange to me it is a side effect of the drugs for sure-that is my take on it. There are many things that sound strange to the rest of the world that are not to us.  Ok yes it is strange but this is just one more time where we are normal people dealing with an abnormal circumstance so try not to worry about this too will stop when this is all behind you.  

 

I for one go thru bouts exactly like you speaking of SEVEN years after cold turkey sorry didn't mean to yell just want it noted that ...whatever is the cause I think it stays with us ever after we are off the drugs...here I am talking about the physical things...I don't think it is the flu because it is so short lived now... too short to be the flu...  the sleep is another matter. 

 

.It started with drugs and stopped sometime I would say around the 3rd year off the drugs... has not come back... the sleep state stuff... awake but not asleep but not... that issue.. or woke up but the dream didn't end... I hope it stays gone.  There may have been a couple of small things after a dream but it clears immediately like it use to before antidepressants... I think for me this is done ...hope it is. 

 

One things I find odd is burning painful lumps in the bottom of my feet... those drive me nuts they come on feeling like a super powerful bee sting... and I can't walk on that foot for a day or so..not normally ... then it just seems to go away.  Could be unrelated but part of me thinks it isn't... maybe immune response... that is a greay area what is the immune effects of these drugs...that needs study. 

 

I think it is best to know you will beat this and along the way you will have times where it will boss you and other times where you will be ok... the best advice I can give is live the best life you can when your the boss and wait out the other times.. I know not much in the way of advice but it is the best I have right now... I hope you feeling better. 

 

This may sound odd to you and I hope some other people come on here to make suggestions too...some who have tapered as I didn't but I have heard other talk about feeling unwell as being a sign they should drop further... now I may have this completely wrong so DO NOT act on it till others come to say if it could help. It is just an idea I have seen other use before.  To me it sounds backwards... but things in withdrawal can be strange. 

[mammaP]

Thanks for your replies Nikki and Btdt.  I feel a bit better today and  went shopping for groceries. 

Btdt when I was in the psych ward the doc told me I had a chronic sleep disorder but never said

exactly what. That kind of experience certainly isn't new for me and I even experienced it before 

I started the drug merry go round. It used to scare me rigid years ago,

I thought I was possessed or something sinister was happening. Once I knew it was a physical thing

I started to just ride it. It can still be frightening if the dreams are bad ones, until I do wake up properly

I have no idea if it is real or not. I've had a lot of trauma in my life  and don't know if any of that could

have anything to do with it. It is always worst when I'm stressed or 'depressed'. 

 

I'm not sure depressed is the right word any more, but lets say the 'brain dead' stage I go through

sometimes. My youngest daughter has parasomnia and has similar experiences but she acts them out

and sleep walks. Again that is when she is stressed and it started after her dad died when she was 12. 

 

I'll have a search and see if I can find those topics, it is really interesting to know what is happening with

all these weird feelings. 

[mammaP]

I feel quite sick again today, nauseous, light headed and exhausted. I went shopping yesterday 

and that can be enough to wipe me out but didn't sleep much last night and that won't have helped.

The nausea and dizziness are back, and visual disturbances too. For an hour or so the outer side of

vision was distorted and 'wriggling' , making me feel very sick. I've never had that before.

Still wondering if it is removing sugar and yeast  from my diet that is responsible, or withdrawal. 

Maybe I should eat a do-nut and see if it goes away, then I will know.

Cakes for experimental purposes don't count do they 

[mattinsmom]

I have heard of similar symptoms when friends have d/c sugar. Could be a combo. I hope that you feel better quickly. Oh, and its cupcakes that don't count. Cupcakes are muffins without the top and muffins are healthy

[btdt]

Sounds like a migraine starting to me.  

[Petunia]

Still wondering if it is removing sugar and yeast  from my diet that is responsible, or withdrawal. 

 

I know pretty much nothing about this kind of thing, but I do remember recently reading in a post about something called 'toxic die off', I think it was.  I think it was related to candida and sugar, I might be wrong but the idea was that you starve the organism of its 'food', it dies and then multiplies in the blood stream for a while before being flushed out

 

Maybe drink more water for a while.  Hopefully someone who knows what they are talking about will chime in.

[mammaP]

Feeling much better this morning, still a bit wobbly but better than yesterday. That makes perfect sense with the

toxic die off Petu, I was warned that I might feel a bit out of sorts but wasn't expecting to feel so ill! 

Last night I as I was going to bed I realised I had a glass of water beside my chair that had been there since morning

and only half had gone! That wouldn't have helped AT ALL. I drank a pint of water before going to bed and believe

that's probably why I feel better. Dehydration isn't good and I should have reliaed I wasn't drinking! Probably because

I wasn't eating either for the nausea. Every meal I take a pint of water and renew it at the next meal. If I haven't finished it

I drink it before the meal so the glass is always emptied. It's a habit I got into to make sure I was drinking enough.

[Nikki]

MamaP I hope you are feeling better.  It is difficult to tell the difference between something 'real' and something that is WD based. 

 

Rest, hydration, eating good foods helps alot.  I was reading on FB about Epsom salt baths and how they can remove or ease pains and toxins.

 

How is the weather there now.....that video was amazing.

[mammaP]

Hi Nikki, feel a lot better now thank you, I blame everything on withdrawal !!

Don't know what I'll blame everything on once it's over, probably STILL blame it for everything  .

I love epsom salts in the bath, I bought 10kg and keep it in a huge tin next to the bath.  Locally it cost

£3.95 for 200grams, I put that in 1 bath, so bought in bulk for around £15!

 

 

The weather has been lovely for 3 days now, in fact it was warmer outside than inside yesterday, I

went to put the bins out and was met with a whoosh of warm air and sunshine when I opened the door!

That's how it is here, you never know what the weather will be like next day. 

[mammaP]

Haven't slept for a while, just dozed on and off. My bedroom is at the front.

I sleep in there because of the noisy neighbours, it's over the 'bridge' between buildings 

and not above their apartment so can't hear them fighting unless they take it outside.

Trouble is that it's also the main trunk road that isn't built for the volume of traffic.

Lately there has been a huge amount of heavy lorries going past through the night.

I think it's probably deliveries to stores through the night because of the christmas 

rush. Every time one goes past it hits a bump in the road and sounds like the building

is collapsing.  Earplugs are useless because the floor vibrates and my bed shakes! 

 

So I moved into the spare room, which is right above the noisy neighbours. It's only

been 3 nights and so far they haven't taken their fights in there but can't sleep in that bed! 

I am so tired I feel sick. Just 2 hours good sleep would help. My consolation is that soon the 

trucks will be back to daytime! 

[alex]

Why don't you try to help yourself sleep with a little Valerian root tincture Petu........

It has been very helpful to me.

You MUST sleep.

[Sweetcreature]

Hi MammaP, You mentioned candida - have you ever considered 'oil pulling'?  I found it very helpful in restoring my energy some months ago when I had candida badly....I cut sugar and yeast and did the oil pulling for a week and it made a masssive difference to my energy level in about a week (prior to that I was sooooooo fatigued that I never felt that I had slept).

 

You can find some really useful videos on you tube on oil pulling - I will leave it to the experts there to describe it for you, but it is painless and safe and gentle and I found effective...gut health is important it would seem in all of this...I am also taking (as advised by the nutritionist) bio acidolfilus (x2 per day) for good gut health.

 

One thing about the oil pulling though, don't be tempted to let the oil just 'sit' in your mouth...you have to actively move it around and 'swish' it!!  Oh, and I used organic coconut oil.

 

Hope you are well this evening x

[Sweetcreature]

if you let the oil 'sit' in your mouth and dont swish, you end up with ulcers!  that is how strong yet natural a method it must be!

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

mammaP,

 

I know how frustrating it is to try to sleep through noise because I have had to do it in the past. A couple of streets (!) over some people used to blast music at all hours of the day and the worst thing was the vibration of the bass sounds. I swear when you were right in front of the house it did not seem that loud but far away I could hear that booming through my closed windows! Got so many complaints the cops knew just where to go. They have been lots better about it last couple of years but it has gone on for over 10 years! Not quite as bad as you having the neighbors right under you, though. That has to be really hard and I feel for you.

 

Seems like all I do is read posts here on SA. I saw your comment about wanting to be a ballerina, I think it was. What an amazing thing to read about someone! All I wanted to be when I grew up was a nurse but I don't know why because when I actually became one, I knew it wasn't right for me. I had a romantic notion of what a nurse was and real life was no match for that. Right now all I want is to feel safe and comfortable in my own skin. You have lived through a lot and I hope the rest of your taper is successful. Sending big hugs!

[mattinsmom]

I hope that you find a nice of peaceful sleep!

[bubble]

Dear Mamma,

 

after a long while I managed to find space and stick my head out from my distress to check on my favourite people here.

 

I've been reading through your posts which speak of bigger windows and shorter waves which is so encouraging for all of us.

 

Not only are you our rock here but yourfamily clearly feels the same way about you

 

hope your son is better and wish for a peaceful rest for you!

 

It meant so much to me for being there for me in my dark moment.thank you so much!

 

Hugs,

bubble

[mammaP]

AWWW thank you everyone, it was lovely to read your posts today. I went to bed in my own bed last night, 

no trucks but still couldn't sleep! Then around 2.30 I heard the shouting start but because I was in the

'quiet room' it was muffled. I kept drifting off then was confused about where I was and got agitated.

Coffee at 6.30 feeling dreadful, had a magnesium bath at 9 then tried to listen to my Sunday meeting

via telephone link but the noise was jarring so went back to bed. Finally fell asleep about noon and woke

at 1.30. I think this is a wave because I had a brain zap last night. Not a bad one,just withdrawal giving me

a swift kick to remind me it's still there! 

 

Sc, I have acidolphus capsules from the nutritionist, and caprylic ? tablets but only took 2 of those because 

I got cramps. Don't want to make things worse, even if it does work! I'd rather take it slow like tapering, the 

yeast will die eventually if it isn't getting fed. Oh my, I just remembered, when I went to my friends on Thursfay

I bought them some hand made belgian chocolates, they insisted I have one with them, then another   .

This morning I was very bloated, looks like I brought that on myself! It really doesn't pay to cheat!

 

.I've bought a filofax and will be buying a day to page appointment diary, Next year I will be logging everything

that passes my lips and everything I do. Because the diary pages are marked with the time it SHOULD be

pretty simple.  That way I will be able to chart my moods and work out if there is a pattern. The filofax will be

more general stuff and lists of what needs to be done each day. I've been without purpose or motivation for

so many years I'm hoping this will help me get my life back and understand my supposed  'bi-polar' . 

[Nikki]

MamaP.....sleep is everything.   I too have been having the candida thing.  Will look up oil pulling.  Can you swap out rooms with someone else or take a power nap to restore your energy?

 

Lot of hugs.....you are so helpful to me I really enjoy hearing from you.

[mammaP]

Not sure I could do the oil pulling, I hate oil, hate it in salad dressing and mop any excess off 

my food. I remember mum giving us cod liver oil as kids and I would gag so much I had to run

to the bathroom and became exempt, all the others were very miffed about that! ( 8 of us!)