☼ Hello. mammaP checking in!

[mammaP]

Thank you Nikki, that's lovely of you to say, I'm  choked up today reading these posts!

I am on my own here and have 2 bedrooms. I've slept in both AND had my

bed in the lounge for a while, that was best until the noisy neighbours moved in! 

 

I need to swap mattresses, my fave is memory foam that gives me a hug. The other one is

very firm and too hard for me. Sleep has always been a problem for me, I get by on very

little sleep so when that is disturbed it isn't long before I feel ill.  It will pass, like everything

else eventually. 

[mammaP]

Another sleepless night, today feel sick and awful headache. Think I am due a wave so will sit tight and ride it.

Hot/cold, nausea, dizzy, yuck. Just want to sleep but it just isn't happening. 3 nights was sleep deprivation,

now it's insomnia. Hopefully tonight will be better. Will have a warm magnesium and lavender bath but make sure I 

don't fall asleep while laid in it! 

[Petunia]

With all the lorries, your neighbors and now insomnia, you really have been having a rough time, I really hope you are asleep now MammaP

 

I find that ear plugs really do help with blocking out noise, but that doesn't work for insomnia and those low vibrations.  I used to live in a house which was surrounded by neighbors with swimming pools, their pool pumps would drive me nuts, I could feel/hear those vibrations and ear plugs didn't help.

 

Petu.

[Nikki]

 MamaP....I can see how you would be lousy from sleep deprivation.  I have experienced noisy, inconsiderate neighbors.  I was so angry.  And then angry and tired.

 

This is a leap, but.....are these people approachable?  To speak to them or ask them to pipe down?

 

Does being outside in the cold air help you sleep at night?  It used to do that for me when I lived in New York.

 

Hugs

[mattinsmom]

Sleep is so essential for me. I do sincerely hope that you find some peace tonight. I'd welcome you here but it's a bit of a ways to travel.

 

Do you sleep better when the girls are at your house?

[mammaP]

Thanks everyone, sleep is a long standing problem for me, I've tried everything.

I've spoken to the neighbours but they get drunk sometimes and lose their tempers,

theres no reasoning then and just have to call the police who usually take one of them away.

I wish they would charge them, they might behave if they think they are going to be hauled

before the courts every time but I suppose the courts are too backed up with serious stuff

to bother with drunks  .  Insomnia will go on for a while then eventually I sleep from sheer

exhaustion, usually for a day or 2 with breaks for the loo and food. Last night was better but 

sleep broken and in very short bursts of time. I woke up and fetl like I'd been asleep for hours

but only 30 minutes have passed! 

 

 I feel ill, sweating and hot but hands and feet are freezing, nausea, headache,

muscle aches and joint pain.  It's midday and I am going back to bed.

Sorry to cut and run, hope everyone is having a good day today. 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

oh mammaP,

 

I sure wish things would turn around for you, it's distressing to hear you are feeling as you do. It must have taken great effort to post today and I hope you get some well deserved rest. I'd sing you a lullaby but my voice might make things worse It's the thought that counts, right?

 

Sleep and be well!

[alex]

I am sorry mamma;I know how distressing insomnia can be.

It will get better, as the other symptoms, believe me.

It takes guts, faith, patience and TIME.

 

Hugs, A.

[mattinsmom]

Oh mommaP. I'm getting into bed and immediately thought of you. When I can't sleep I go to " the moth.org". It is people telling stories. That's it, just stories. They are short and there isn't anything you have to do but listen. It's like a bedtime story. I can use my computer if I want but mostly I use my phone.

 

I have an ap on my phone so I pick a story, hit play, and then close my eyes. Ok, some nights I listen to a couple but it is so relaxing and it gives me something to do beside focus on being awake.

 

I frequently fall asleep while listening and my phone just stops playing anything once the story is over. Maybe it could help you.

[mammaP]

oh mammaP,

 

I sure wish things would turn around for you, it's distressing to hear you are feeling as you do. It must have taken great effort to post today and I hope you get some well deserved rest. I'd sing you a lullaby but my voice might make things worse It's the thought that counts, right?

 

Sleep and be well!

That was a lovely lullaby thought CW   .  And the stories idea too, thanks Amy. I have a thing on my alarm clock that takes you through a meditation type story, I'd clean forgotten about that! Will try that tonight.  Thank you too Alex, it will come right soon.

I had a little bit better night last night and slept for 2 hours, still not enough but better than nothing and feel a bit better today.

 

I did a bit of research last night and think that the beta blocker is probably affecting sleep too. Apparently it is sometimes given for anxiety and affects cortisol production.  I've thought for a long time that my cortisol is off whack. I don't get the morning spikes that people talk about, I just want to stay put! 

 

I have seen the perfect house for me, at the edge of a forest, very old house stands alone, no neighbours.  Only problem is 

that it has open fires, (beautiful but not on a freezing cold morning trying to light them) and right beside a trunk road even busier than this one, only yards from the road. Now if I could pick it up and move it INTO the forest !!! *sighs* I can dream

[mammaP]

Still feeling unwell and not sleeping. I realised yesterday that I feel worse a

few hours after meds, like I did on higher doses so I've dropped another bead today. 

Now I am on 2 beads. I was at 3 for  6 weeks so it's time. It's unbelievable how such

a tiny miniscule amount can make a huge difference with withdrawal and I am hoping

it won't be back to let me know it's still around! 

 

Not sure what to taper next, tramadol is hard on the stomach so should maybe

keep with omeprazole until that's over.  The atenolol is a beta blocker that was

originally for blood pressure but the doctor said it isn't working, my heart rate is

too fast for it to be working, it slows the heart rate so it wouldn't be so fast if it was

working. Still kept me on it though! I read that it is also prescribed for anxiety so

maybe I should leave that while tapering tramadol, which is an opiate pain killer.

I only take 100 mg at night. That will make a huge difference to me because I can't

go out after taking it, feel drunk and sick, co-ordination goes so can't drive.

Then have a hangover that lasts till lunchtime.

 

Then I'll have to find some other pain relief. I'm allergic to aspirin, just 1 ibuprofen

had me in hospital with a suspected heart attack but was actually gastric bleeding.

Paracetamol (tylenol) makes me very sick.

 

When I go into hospital and have morphine or paracetamol I need large doses of

anti emetics toprevent sickness and they don't always work. 

 

Decisions decisions! 

[tezza]

Bless your heart, mamma! There's not much left for pain except, maybe, Aleve (naproxen). My DH takes that for arthritis pain/inflammation.

 

My fingers are crossed for us both, tapering the last bits!

[mammaP]

Thanks Tezza, we'll get there 

[mattinsmom]

I was caught by something you said:

 

The atenolol is a beta blocker that was

originally for blood pressure but the doctor said it isn't working, my heart rate is

too fast for it to be working, it slows the heart rate so it wouldn't be so fast if it was

working. Still kept me on it though! I read that it is also prescribed for anxiety so

maybe I should leave that while tapering tramadol, which is an opiate pain killer.

 

I wonder why your doctor would keep you on the atenolol if s/he thinks its not working? I wonder if it is working and you don't realize it. Maybe your heart rate would be even faster? Also, pain will raise your heart rate/bp so maybe staying on it while you taper tramadol is a good idea. Just a thought.

 

I'm sorry that you are feeling so crappy..  

[mammaP]

I was caught by something you said:

 

The atenolol is a beta blocker that was

originally for blood pressure but the doctor said it isn't working, my heart rate is

too fast for it to be working, it slows the heart rate so it wouldn't be so fast if it was

working. Still kept me on it though! I read that it is also prescribed for anxiety so

maybe I should leave that while tapering tramadol, which is an opiate pain killer.

 

I wonder why your doctor would keep you on the atenolol if s/he thinks its not working? I wonder if it is working and you don't realize it. Maybe your heart rate would be even faster? Also, pain will raise your heart rate/bp so maybe staying on it while you taper tramadol is a good idea. Just a thought.

 

I'm sorry that you are feeling so crappy..  

 Why do doctors ever keep us on drugs that don't work? I've given up trying to understand doctors! 

I keep a check on my BP and usually it's fine unless I get really stressed, then it rises. I see different doctors 

and they rarely say the same things but 3 of them agreed it wasn't doing anything.

BP was dangerously high at 228/118 when he said it isn't working, and when BP had dropped he said heart

rate should be slower on atenolol  but said to carry on with it.   I didn't want to start 

tapering then because I was in withdrawal and didn't  want to make things worse.  

 

The psych told me the anti depressant was not a therapeutic dose but couldn't 

increase it because I was manic at a higher dose. Then said I would be on it for the rest of my life! 

 

I will tell him/her when I want to taper atenolol, and keep a check on my bp but ultimately want to be free of

drugs if it's possible. 

[Meimeiquest]

I am tapering metroprolol, like atenolol, for high blood pressure. I am having as much trouble with it as a a"real" psych med. just because your heart is pounding doesn't mean it's not having an effect....Alex wrote the most hilarious essay once on how things can always get worse. And they can.

[Rhiannon]

This might not be helpful, but as far as masking sound and vibration goes, here's the combination I use: 

a computer playing a loop of the deepest (most bass) "white noise" I could find, all night long, over speakers which are set on the floor

and

a floor fan that has a bit of vibration to it as well, set on the floor.

 

If I don't have those on, the vibration from traffic on the street wakes me up. I doubt they'd be strong enough to help with loud construction noises but they work for me for normal street traffic.

 

I sure hope that helps. Not being able to sleep is the WORST!

 

And as always I do encourage you to be conservative with the tapering.

 

It can be difficult to sort out what is the effect of the drug and what is the effect of the withdrawal itself, but when I hold my taper for two months or so the withdrawal fades away and I can see what is what. Sometimes we think we're helping ourselves by cutting our doses, and yes we are helping in some ways, but we can be making it worse by aggravating the withdrawal. 

 

It's a balance between withdrawal and drug effects, trying to minimize both. Since insomnia is such a common withdrawal symptom I am wondering if maybe you're pushing the taper a bit too much.

[mammaP]

Thank you for the input Rhi,  I appreciate it. You are right, I am trying to work out

what is side effects and what is withdrawal and it isn't always obvious which is which.

I held at 4 beads for so long, and did well but eventually started to feel the side effects

again. But I get side effects to everything so it's hard to tell what is causing them all.

I did change my diet  too because of the candida, the sugar cravings have gone now

and that seems to have settled. 

 

I have to admit though, I didn't link the insomnia to withdrawal! It is a long standing problem

for me but no sleep at all was really making me feel even worse. I should have known that it

could be withdrawal! Thanks for pointing that out.  I did sleep a bit better last night. I actually

was tired and went to bed when I couldn't keep my eyes open. Still only slept a couple of hours

but it was good sleep and I feel like I can go for a little walk.    The traffic wasn't as heavy and 

the trucks stayed off our road, thankfully that is temporary. I lived in the country for 20 years with

silence all around except for the occasional moo and bleat from the cows and sheep. It's been

hard adjusting to people and traffic, I'm a country girl at heart! 

[Sweetcreature]

Sorry youre having trouble sleeping MammaP, good news about the drop of bead, I will keep my fingers crossed for you that it is smooth. 

[mammaP]

Thank you SC, I had quite a good night last night, for me anyway! I kept waking

up but went back to sleep again, several times and was still sleepy at 8.30am.

Each time I woke up it felt I was being woken up but all was quiet, warm and dark.

Just remembered something as I am typing, on holiday my daughter told me I was

snoring. She was surprised because she didn't remember me snoring before, 

maybe that is what is waking me up! Mmmmmm 

 

Today has been a good day, my daughter called in with her baby grandaughter , it

was really lovely. She told me about someone who was on ADs and their doctor had

doubled the dose. They reacted badly and my daughter said she wanted to bring them

here because I would know hat to do.  She said it was like when I was on leave from

the hospital and they took me back because I was 'relapsing'.  She didn't want them

to go to hospital and looked after them herself at home. Next day the crisis was over,

still unwell but not in crisis, and they didn't take that extra dose of AD again.

 

It is the first time she has acknowledged that the hospital made me sick, and was very

angry with me for deciding to come off the meds. It feels like we are getting our

relationship back again now she knows the truth and can see that I am not going to

relapse because of going off ADs. 

 

Then later my grandaughter and her fiance came for dinner, it was lovely having them over

and we had a conversation about mental illness 'labels' and over prescribing of drugs. 

She was studying psychology but is switching to social work and hates how kids are labelled with

mental illness just for being different. It was great to have a discussion with someone about it all

without feeling like I am being considered paranoid about conspiracy theories re. drug companies! 

My neighbour called in too and invited me for coffee tomorrow so yes, it's been a good day today.

 

And now it is time for bed, I feel tired so hopefully will sleep again. 

 

[Nikki]

MamaP is the difficulty with sleeping related to WD?  Have you ever tried Calms Forte or Rescue Remedy?

[mattinsmom]

I am so happy to hear that a good day has come your way. What blessings you were given! And coffee with another person - excellent! Enjoy.

[Nikki]

So happy for you All good things, and the validation from your daughter re: the hospital must have touched you.

 

I think I saw CD's on Amazon.com....for sleep.  They were under mediation cd's.

 

Lots of cyber hugs.

[mammaP]

Thanks Amy, had a nice couple of hours with my neighbour,

we get along well and have coffee now and again, just right, getting along and

looking out for each other but neither of us takes advantage of the other.

 

 

So happy for you All good things, and the validation from your daughter re: the hospital must have touched you.

 

I think I saw CD's on Amazon.com....for sleep.  They were under mediation cd's.

 

Lots of cyber hugs.

 

You are right there Nikki, I was deeply touched by the fact that she thought I would be better for the friend

than the hospital! She understands now what happened to me there and realises that it was not me being

mentally ill but  damaged by drugs!  We got along great and were very close until I started to taper and she got cross with me for being brainwashed into ditching my meds It actually feels like a barrier has been removed from between us. 

 

Had another good sleep last night. It's amazing the difference just 2-3 hours of good sleep can make. I

can only imagine how it must feel to get 8 hours every night. That is so rare for me that I can count the

times on 2 fingers ! I remember both times because it was so unusual. I drifted off to sleep while my 

light was dimming down, then woke up after a few  minutes and it was still dimming.

( it dims down for 30 minutes, then the same in reverse in the morning) It wasn't still dimming, I had slept

the whole 7 hours and the light was brightening! I couldn't believe it, it was a surreal experience for me

and I couldn't remember that ever happening before.

 

I was left thinking about people who get into bed and fall asleep right away then wake up with the alarm

and jump out of bed.  That concept is alien to me, it must be like chunks of time have disappeared! I 

would love that to happen every single night, and wake up refreshed, ready for another day.

One day.................

[mammaP]

Not good today, aches all over, leaky aching ear and dodgy tummy, so got dressed into my fluffy jamas 

and am watching old movies   . 

 

BTW I decided to heed Rhi's wise advice and stick with the 3 beads for a while longer. I only had the reduced

dose of 2 for 1 day so didn't feel any effects from it. I do wish that the liquid had been ok for me, I am a bit

anxious about cutting 33%!  It could be fine, the last one was 25% and didn't feel it. There isn't much choice

with lower doses when counting beads, I'm just glad that mine are teeny tiny ones that mean teeny tiny doses! 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

mammaP,

 

I think your decision to stay at 3 beads might be a good one since it is hard to sort out your sleeping from your usual pattern or if it is WD. Nothing about this journey is set in stone for anyone.

 

A lot of us are having insomnia, I wonder if it is the most common reason why people find and join this site. I really feel for you but you seem to have a clear head about it and do remarkably well with all of your problems. I hope for you a day of wonderful rest with your movies! Imagining you in 'fluffy' pajamas is interesting...

[lespaul19]

How are you feeling mammap? Is there no way to liquify the 3 beads and adjust from there?

[mattinsmom]

I am so, so sorry that you feel so yucky   Its just not fair that it is so hard to come off of the thing that is making you sick in the first place. 

HUGS to you. Enjoy your movies as much as you can. 

[mammaP]

How are you feeling mammap? Is there no way to liquify the 3 beads and adjust from there?

The beads are really tiny and have a hard shell that isn't soluble, they don't even digest and appear in stools! 

I did crush some, there was a minute amount of powder inside  and the hard shell just cracked open. I'm not

sure that I could get accurate doses. Some seemed to have more powder than others so it would be hard to

be accurate.

. 

Alto once suggested that someone take a tiny crumb of tablet if brain zaps start and I think I might try that

when I do eventually drop to 2 beads. Just a smidgeon of powder on a cocktail stick if withdrawal symptoms

start. It would be rapid release and should stop withdrawal in it's tracks........ I think! 

 I'm not there yet though so will think about it when the time comes 

 

Insomnia has always been a problem for me, I never seemed to get into a good sleep cycle, ever, not just after 

drugs. I manage fine on a few hours, 4 hours and I feel great!  I have times when I go for days with zero sleep

and feel really ill but it passes eventually. I had a little good sleep last night and feel much better today. 

 

CW my fluffy pj's are leopard print and kept me cosy yesterday while I felt rough, I love my jim jams  , lol.

That would be a sight to behold, me in my leopard jim jams chasing bad thoughts with a broom 

[Petunia]

I'm glad you are feeling better today MammaP.  I also find it comforting to put on my PJ's, they seem to help trigger relaxation mode.

[alex]

 

 I had a little good sleep last night and feel much better today. 

 

 

I am sure you look great on your leopard pj's!

 

I am glad you feel better.

We must keep on giving the good fight

 

Hugs,A.

[mattinsmom]

I wonder if you and yours Jammie's look at all like what I imagine

 

I hope that you are sleeping peacefully again tonight. I'm about to head to bed and listen to a story.

 

Sweet dreams.

[mammaP]

Feeling rotten again today,  not much sleep again and arthritis flare up, psoriasis too. 

Went back to bed and fell into one of those funny kind of sleeps, aware it was a dream but very real too,

like I was looking in to someone else's life! Was aware I needed the loo but couldn't quite wake up enough.

Thankfully did wake enough eventually. I always find those kind of dreams amusing, wondering where they 

come from!  They aren't amusing when they are mares though! That's another story!

[mattinsmom]

I'm sorry you are feeling rotten. Not sleeping is so hard on our bodies. Have you ever tried a bath with milk and oatmeal? They are very soothing to the body and the soul.

I do hope that as the day progresses you feel better.

[mammaP]

Hi Amy, I've had oatmeal baths, with epsom salts and lavender, they are so good I actually fell asleep in the bath!

Woke up freezing cold and then was wide awake when I dried off and got into bed, lol. 

 

I recently googled atenolol, which I take and found that it affects sleep, no surprise there ! I moved it from evening

to morning, I have been taking it in the evening because of side effects, like all my meds, because it doesn't matter

so much if I feel lousy in bed. I figured that if I could sleep then I would feel better and maybe cope with the side effects.

It hasn't made any difference to sleep, but the side effects are awful and I feel worse during the day. Within an hour of

taking it I feel dreadful.  

 

I have now decided to taper the atenolol and hold the effexor until off the atenonlol. I am taking 50mg. I think I'll micro taper

with small reductions weekly and see how it goes. When I was in hospital last years for 6 weeks they stopped it because

my bp was very low and I didn't feel any withdrawal so hopefully it won't be too difficult to taper. 

( I was very ill though, so maybe there were withdrawal symptoms I didn't recognise.  ) 

 

Anyway, that is the plan.

[Meimeiquest]

I will enjoy having another person doing the beta-blocker taper!